nfg.forums

I know the Micomsoft XPC-4 is the go to solution for displaying the X68000 on modern displays, but what other devices are known to be working? OSSC can work but can be very hit or miss depending on your tv/monitor. What about GBS-Control? It would be helpful to start a maintained list of these. If one already exists please let me know!

I am using OSSC. I thing its one of the best.
Using it with X68000, FM Towns, Amiga and a lot of Consoles.
But you have to spend some time to configure it to your display.

My GBS Control doesn´t work with X68000, don´t know why

The Framemeister will work, but it can be cranky in some modes. It's been a while since I've had it hooked up though.

Thanks for the info so far! I am able to get ossc to work on 2 out of 3 displays I've tried using some tweaking. No luck with my hdcrt though... if anyone has suggestions for settings I'd be interested.

I can get a picture if I go ossc (all resolutions 2x) to extron vsc-700 but the picture is interlaced, and starts to become too many devices connected. But it is a lower cost solution for people interested.

I would like to say that an alternative to the OSSC is the GBSControl, it involves some tinkering but is probably about half the price of the OSSC, I've done two, one for my X68000 and other for my Amiga 1200, to hook them to 20" vga triniton monitors (they look crisp and beautifull) and works for 15kz, 24kz and 30kz resolutions :-)

https://www.retrorgb.com/gbs-control-installation-overview.html

What are your settings for GBS-Control?

I would also be interested in getting GSBControl working.

I built it properly but if my memory serves it wouldn't display the FMT IPL screen which is 24khz. I didn't test any further

I didn't test for X68000 yet.

GBS-Control does not work. The problem is not a hardware issue but software.  I used my oscilloscope and calculated the correct values for RGBHV resistors to get the correct Vpp values. GBS-Control gets confused by the X68000 res.

The best solution that works for me is OSSC -> HDMI2VGA adapter -> old computer screen.

Quote from: leonk on August 17, 2021, 03:45:35 AMGBS-Control does not work. The problem is not a hardware issue but software.  I used my oscilloscope and calculated the correct values for RGBHV resistors to get the correct Vpp values. GBS-Control gets confused by the X68000 res.

My GBS-Control works fine on my XVI Compact, but the screen has flickering dots @15Hz on my ACE HD

Does anyone here know about the Medusa?

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=357

There's a lot of old computer resolutions supported, wonder if X68000 would work? If anyone has used this I'd be interested to hear about it.

I'm using the OSSC with my XVI Compact, and it works great. I still need to do some cleanup and do some fine tuning, but it displays all modes, all resolutions, no complaints whatsoever.

Can also confirm that X68K and OSSC works with the Sony A80J and looks amazing! If anyone needs help with settings in this particular combination let me know. Would love it if a 4:3 version of this oled existed...

Could not get GBS-Control running latest firmware as of this post to work with my SUPER. In the debug console it throws an error about "unrecognized source format", defaults to pass through, and my display shuts off.

I had very good luck with OSSC. It took a little tweaking but looks great on my Dell 2007FPb. Just had to switch it to DVI mode because HDMI audio causes the monitor to go to sleep.

If you're the lucky owner of a Dell P2314H you'll never need an scaler again.

It's the first modern screen I've seen capable of syncing correctly the X68K freqs, displaying all the vertical resolution of the screen without loosing a single line. The image quality is also top notch.

I'm absolutely satisfied now, at least having successfully tested some tricky software.

Does anyone knows a good testbed to be sure is working with 100% of the software?

Quote from: armitage on March 11, 2023, 02:33:53 PMCould not get GBS-Control running latest firmware as of this post to work with my SUPER. In the debug console it throws an error about "unrecognized source format", defaults to pass through, and my display shuts off.

I had very good luck with OSSC. It took a little tweaking but looks great on my Dell 2007FPb. Just had to switch it to DVI mode because HDMI audio causes the monitor to go to sleep.

Mind sharing what settings you have on the OSSC? Oddly enough, my GBS-Control has zero issues with the X68000 Compact I have but the OSSC cuts off the bottom of the screen, so maybe there is some setting I am missing. That said I remember reading somewhere that some sort of software patch on the X68000 OS would fix that but not sure if that is accurate. Thanks!

Quote from: repoMan on March 16, 2023, 11:55:40 PMIf you're the lucky owner of a Dell P2314H you'll never need an scaler again.

It's the first modern screen I've seen capable of syncing correctly the X68K freqs, displaying all the vertical resolution of the screen without loosing a single line. The image quality is also top notch.

I'm absolutely satisfied now, at least having successfully tested some tricky software.

Does anyone knows a good testbed to be sure is working with 100% of the software?

I just got the Dell P2214Hb Rev 06 and that is also working great with 15Khz and 31Khz.
I did the trick of changing the background purple (any colour apart from black) in Switch.X and then 'auto adjust' fits the screen perfectly.

Quote from: tsmvp on March 17, 2023, 12:37:32 AM

Quote from: armitage on March 11, 2023, 02:33:53 PMCould not get GBS-Control running latest firmware as of this post to work with my SUPER. In the debug console it throws an error about "unrecognized source format", defaults to pass through, and my display shuts off.

I had very good luck with OSSC. It took a little tweaking but looks great on my Dell 2007FPb. Just had to switch it to DVI mode because HDMI audio causes the monitor to go to sleep.

Mind sharing what settings you have on the OSSC? Oddly enough, my GBS-Control has zero issues with the X68000 Compact I have but the OSSC cuts off the bottom of the screen, so maybe there is some setting I am missing. That said I remember reading somewhere that some sort of software patch on the X68000 OS would fix that but not sure if that is accurate. Thanks!

I used the settings in the last post of this thread (#7) as a baseline and then made a few minor adjustments for my display: https://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=6622.0

Quote from: incrediblehark on October 21, 2022, 10:24:07 AMDoes anyone here know about the Medusa?

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=357

There's a lot of old computer resolutions supported, wonder if X68000 would work? If anyone has used this I'd be interested to hear about it.

I was eyeing the Medusa too, did you take the plunge?

Not yet, but it supports a lot of older PCs so I am really tempted. Would like to see how it compares to the XPC-4.

Quote from: incrediblehark on October 21, 2022, 10:24:07 AMDoes anyone here know about the Medusa?

https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=357

There's a lot of old computer resolutions supported, wonder if X68000 would work? If anyone has used this I'd be interested to hear about it.

Hi all.

Just want to inform that I purchased Lotharek Medusa, connected X68000 via VGA-cable and it works perfectly. Both 15 and 31 khz modes.

Does anybody knows some games which use a 24 khz video modes?

Quote from: megabyte1986 on September 12, 2024, 06:49:50 AMDoes anybody knows some games which use a 24 khz video modes?

Marble Madness has a 24khz mode, you just have to select it in the menu.

And Fantasy Zone, press HELP on the title screen or any time during gameplay to switch.

Also, thanks for taking the time to test out the Medusa! Nice to see another working scaler.

Framemeister works using scart and H+V connected together but I had some issues

GBS Control works but depends on the monitor, several LG monitors works even without any scaler, but don't accept all frequencies

OSSC works, but again depends on the monitor

OSSC Pro works perfectly , but for the first and second batch you have to do a mod

Retrotink 4k works perfectly too, but using the correct profile

Just got my ossc pro in and it works better than any other scaler I've tried so far! This is the newest batch with the firmware from April. Scaler mode works perfect, there's even a 540p mode for hd crt which I appreciate. If you can enable frame lock that works the smoothest I've seen so far with X68K. If your display doesn't support framelock then you get a little choppiness when playing but it's still a lot better than the xpc-4 and more responsive too. I was able to scale down to 480p without weird artifacts or cut off portions of screen like I get on the retrotink 4K. Works well with PC98 also, I definitely recommend it!

I've been struggling to find an original x68k CRT monitor with 15/24/31khz compatibility. I've tried sniping some Japanese auctions but keep failing

I really prefer vintage gaming on CRT monitors. I would love to find a way to use all 15/24/31khz modes on a VGA CRT. However, most of these solutions seem like they upscale for HDMI, which adds some latency. I acknowledge it's a near imperceptible amount of latency, but...it's too much!

Does anyone know if it's possible to upscale to a standard VGA? In other words, I want to avoid the analog->digital->analog conversion. In my head it seems to make sense that a strictly analog converter/upscaler should be able to work without introducing any latency at all. Is that a correct assumption? And if yes, is there a device that does this?

With my Amigas, I use the Indivision scandoubler/flicker fixer and there is zero added latency. This is what I'm shooting for!

Quote from: cloverskull on September 24, 2024, 02:33:55 PMDoes anyone know if it's possible to upscale to a standard VGA?

Yes. Try Lotharek Medusa (https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=135), which I mentioned above.

It has a DVI video output, but DVI connector also has an analog RGB signals. So you can use any DVI-VGA passive adapter for using analog VGA CRT monitor.

Which Output resolutions does medusa have ? Can it downscale to 240p ?

Quote from: Jehuty on September 25, 2024, 01:43:24 AMWhich Output resolutions does medusa have ? Can it downscale to 240p ?

As I understood, Medusa works in two modes for each videomode - it doubles horizontal frequency or not.

So 15 khz becomes 31, 24 - 48, 31 is not doubled. And you can control it via LCD menu.

So, Medusa don't downscale anything, it just doubles hfreq.

Quote from: megabyte1986 on September 24, 2024, 05:41:06 PMYes. Try Lotharek Medusa (https://lotharek.pl/productdetail.php?id=135), which I mentioned above.

It has a DVI video output, but DVI connector also has an analog RGB signals. So you can use any DVI-VGA passive adapter for using analog VGA CRT monitor.

Thanks! My only concern here is that if Medusa is converting the signal to a digital one, it's introducing some latency. Are you saying that's not the case here?

What sort of TV/monitor brand/model anyone can recommend for plugging in X68000 or PC98 directly or through OSSC? X68k is a pain in the ass to get working on anything and I can confirm this thing doesn't work on any Samsung tv or monitor. However it works with LG Flatron M2780 directly and through OSSC, although the image is sometimes jittery and annoying (this is not a problem with the X68000-I verified). PC98 works too in both 24khz and 31khz modes. Looking for something bigger that can also handle these picture frequencies better or perfectly

Hi - I just picked up an X68000 from Higgy (thanks!). I thought I was going to be OK for screens as I have a couple of BenQ 1702's that can display both 15Khz and 31Khz but it turns out they look absolutely terrible. I've tried every other option I have and nothing is going to cut it except perhaps the Microvitec 1438 in the loft, but I need to get that repaired (suspected dead HV) and besides, CRTs give me a headache these days.

I'm beginning to resign myself to getting a scan converter. I'd say the OSSC Pro is out of budget, but the v1.8 OSSC is in budget and I could push to the Medusa. If you were starting out, what would you get? I also have Amigas that display on the BenQ but the picture has never been top notch.

The target monitor would be one of Dell U2414H (1080p) or S2719GDF (1440p). I do have a 4K 27" Dell too but I'm not convinced I have room on the desk there for the X68000.

I've been enjoying my X68K systems using a regular OSSC (X68K VGA cable -> OSSC -> HDMI2VGA dongle -> 17" 4x3 LCD screen) My LCD VGA monitor doesn't support 15khz but the OSSC did a great job (as many have discovered) at making any VGA monitor support 15khz signal.

The only issue is the video crop as X68K video output is not really 640x480.  I believe there's a tool to fix that (LCDFix?) but it doesn't work with all games.

Over the summer I sold my extra X68K and was showing the new owner how the system works. They only have a regular PC 17" CRT (so they can only play 31khz games at the moment) but from what I saw - my mind was blown. Doing X68K VGA -> PC VGA CRT not only had no cropped image, but the colors, fidelity, overall image quality was ahead of anything my LCD was showing me all these years.

My point is if you want the best experience, just get yourself a decent 17-19" 4:3 PC CRT. Stick an old OSSC between the X68K/PC CRT if you want 15khz support and call it a day. Not only is this the cheapest solution, based on my experience, it's also the most visually appealing and period correct output.

All these scalars try to mimic what we already had for 30+ years. I own XRGB-mini, OSSC, RetroTink2X, RetroTink5X, GBSControl and still go back to my PVM/BVM and CRT screens. 

The problem for me with picking up CRT PC monitors is that it's very hit and miss. I grabbed about 3 a number of years back and every one was duff in some way - scratched screen, very dim tube, and I don't remember the fault on the last one. I just became a disposal service, picking up free monitors, testing them, finding they were no good and taking them to the recycling centre.

On top of that, CRTs have a habit of giving me a headache these days and even a 14" is going to take up nearly the full depth of the desk. We just don't live in a world made for CRTs any more, and to be honest, I'm not overly sorry about that. The only thing I really like about them is their aspect ratio. Hence why I was asking about scan converters.

I've read people getting on well with OSSC (the original one) and then you usually find some caveat, like it doesn't cope well with certain modes. I think pushing £300 for the pro is getting too much TBH, hence wondering about the Medusa.

Quote from: MartinW on September 30, 2024, 09:13:12 AMThe problem for me with picking up CRT PC monitors is that it's very hit and miss. I grabbed about 3 a number of years back and every one was duff in some way - scratched screen, very dim tube, and I don't remember the fault on the last one. I just became a disposal service, picking up free monitors, testing them, finding they were no good and taking them to the recycling centre.

Maybe this is a regional problem? I'm in Toronto. PC CRTs are plentiful, many still in excellent condition. Many going for free or close to free. The biggest issue with PC CRTs is 15khz support. But that's where the OSSC solves that issue.

There's not much of anything left around here - but I guess that's what I get for living in a semi-rural area that's 80% pensioners that wouldn't know one end of a computer from another! Honestly even some of my friends (in their '50s) try to tell me they wouldn't know how to switch on a computer and think I'm some kind of evil genius meddling in the dark arts (I'm a software engineer!).

I have barely zero hope of it working, but before I give up on my Dell's altogether, I ordered a cheap VGA -> HDMI cable that arrives tomorrow. I have a couple of 2414 Dell's. 2214's / 2314's are meant to be great, but when it came to the 2414 they did away with VGA. We'll see what it makes of the signal but like I say, I'm not expecting it to work in the slightest.

After using the OSSC Pro for a little while I'd like to list my thoughts on the scalers I've tried as it relates to X68000:


For downscaling to 240p/480i/480p/540p : OSSC Pro

For displaying on higher resolution displays : Retrotink 4K

For passthrough modes: XPC-4 or OSSC

For displaying on 1080i: OSSC Pro

For lowest input lag:
1. OSSC
2. Retrotink 4K w/genlock + VRR
3. OSSC Pro in pure line multiplication mode

Some drawbacks I've found from the OSSC Pro are that the passthrough modes still process the image in a way that I found to be worse than the xpc-4, at least on a CRT monitor. I was kind of disappointed in that as it is better than the XPC-4 in every other way.

If you need to downscale to an SD CRT or even 480p, I'd go with the OSSC Pro, but I found with my 19" PC CRT I actually get an overall better quality image with the Retrotink 4K if output at 1600x1200 and using my custom input modes for X68000. For other gaming 240p to 480p looks amazing as well with nice even scanlines. I'd love it if the 4K would display scanlines automatically based on the input mode, rather than having to toggle on/off or load another profile. OSSC Pro has auto scanlines like the OSSC but still displays them at resolutions I wouldn't expect to see them.

Overall right now I'd recommend the Retrotink 4K with the OSSC Pro as a close 2nd, or as a 1st choice depending on your planned usage. As of this date I still have not tried the Medusa or the GBS-C.

Thanks for your review @incrediblehark

So if someone has a 20" Sony PVM that only accepts 15khz 240p or 480i and wants to connect an X68000, PC98 or FM Towns to it; it sounds like the best option today is the OSSC Pro. What about going the other way? connecting these retro Japanese computers to a 17" CRT PC monitor that supprots 640x480 up to 1024x768 resolution? It sounds like the OSSC Pro might be the best option as well but RT4K would be a strong contender for this use case?

Quote from: leonk on October 04, 2024, 10:51:42 AMThanks for your review @incrediblehark

So if someone has a 20" Sony PVM that only accepts 15khz 240p or 480i and wants to connect an X68000, PC98 or FM Towns to it; it sounds like the best option today is the OSSC Pro. What about going the other way? connecting these retro Japanese computers to a 17" CRT PC monitor that supprots 640x480 up to 1024x768 resolution? It sounds like the OSSC Pro might be the best option as well but RT4K would be a strong contender for this use case?

OSSC Pro works very well in this usage case. The adaptive line multiplication mode has support for 1024x768 without having to go into the full scaler mode which would add a frame or so of lag. It has per resolution passthrough options which is nice but you may have to turn off your auto scanlines to get a sharper picture as it still processes the image somewhat during passthrough.

I'd definitely recommend the OSSC Pro to anyone only planning to connect these retro PCs to CRT monitors. The retrotink 4K edges it out slightly with input lag and its fast resolution switching with genlock enabled. But I expect this to be improved on the OSSC Pro with firmware updates.

Nobody answered my question tho. My question targets modern TVs or monitors that are at least 30 inch. Does anyone know any brand or model that is compatible with either X68000 or PC98 or both? Connected directly or through regular non-pr0 OSSC because this is what I also have. Thankful for any feedback

Quote from: BlackVega on October 05, 2024, 05:31:23 AMNobody answered my question tho. My question targets modern TVs or monitors that are at least 30 inch. Does anyone know any brand or model that is compatible with either X68000 or PC98 or both? Connected directly or through regular non-pr0 OSSC because this is what I also have. Thankful for any feedback

I've had luck with the regular OSSC and X68000 on modern 4K displays like a Sony oled. I think they are a little better at handling the line multiplication modes of the original ossc as opposed to a standard 1080p display. Hopefully others can share their experiences as well.

If you want to go direct connection to a flat panel, the older Panasonic plasma displays work really well. These are the higher end consumer and industrial models like the TH-42PW5. Any of the Panasonics that have removable input cards work really well, they handle every resolution/scan rate I've tried with them and can be found pretty cheap. I ran my x68000 and fm towns directly to one with vga adapter or vga to bnc. Of course these aren't technically modern and have their own set of plasma related drawbacks but could be another option for people to get a closer to crt feel.