XSIMM-10 RAM issues (with video) + Monitor Discussion

[Pinwizkid]

Too much to type up, so I made a video:

https://youtu.be/ymL7v-A1ZGM (update: fixed all of my issues in this video! See posts below.)

Also, here's the dipswitches on my XSIMM-10:





Could it be a bad chip on my mother board? Thanks as always for your help guys,

-BB

[skpstmgs]

For the switch/extraction issues: You are typing in full width mode. Switch to half width. I think it's the button to the right of XF5 on the keyboard to toggle it. I'm not convinced the dip switches are set correctly but I'm no expert on those, so I think someone else should check to see what they should be set to.

[famiac]

I tested the device before sending it. The switches are correct


Do you get these errors without the board?

[Pinwizkid]

I would get the same errors when booting games from games3 and certain games from games2, but the error on boot up is new. I was looking at the pictures you sent me and comparing it to the board and it might be that the dipswitches shifted during shipping (not sure how), as bank 2 is definitely set different (I didn't change any of them).

[Pinwizkid]

Thanks skpstmgs, that was indeed my issue with running the extraction. SP2 now installed. I also was able to get Switch to save my settings again by accessing it from command prompt instead of LHES on a tip from SuperDeadite.

I removed the XSIMM-10 card and ran MTEST to test my built in memory. The results were good:



If anyone can chime in on what the correct XSIMM-10 S2 dipswitch settings should be for 10 MB (2X 4MB Simms + 2X 1MB Simms), I'll double check them. The diagram is a bit difficult to interpret at first, but I think it should be:

Blank=0
B2=1
B1=0
B0=1
AZ=1
A2=0
A1=0
A0=1

I will try this and run MTEST again (Famiac, these switch settings match the pic you initially sent me, so they might have gotten mis-aligned in shipping).

-BB

[hyperneogeo]

I would get the same errors when booting games from games3 and certain games from games2, but the error on boot up is new. I was looking at the pictures you sent me and comparing it to the board and it might be that the dipswitches shifted during shipping (not sure how), as bank 2 is definitely set different (I didn't change any of them).

Those errors are on games 2/3 are most likely lack of memory errors.  Basically with 2MB of ram you will be lucky to get the compact flash working at all and if you do, I don't think many games will boot without at least 4-6MB of ram.

[Pinwizkid]

I would get the same errors when booting games from games3 and certain games from games2, but the error on boot up is new. I was looking at the pictures you sent me and comparing it to the board and it might be that the dipswitches shifted during shipping (not sure how), as bank 2 is definitely set different (I didn't change any of them).

Those errors are on games 2/3 are most likely lack of memory errors.  Basically with 2MB of ram you will be lucky to get the compact flash working at all and if you do, I don't think many games will boot without at least 4-6MB of ram.

Yes, stupid me - I was trying to launch the games in games2 from LHES instead of by quitting to the prompt. Almost all of those that I load now are working. Games3 is still is giving RAM errors even with the XSIMM-10 installed because it is looking for the additional ram and not finding it I assume. 

I just ran MTEST with the XSIMM-10 in and this is what I get:



I think I'm going to give my I/O slot a good cleaning and also clean the XSIMM-10 contacts just to rule out any connection issues.

[famiac]

Do you have a midi board?

Try running a midi capable game, like dracula, with your midi board installed and report what happens.

Let's see if the I/O slot is your problem.

If it runs properly, then we can isolate the issue to the card. Then i would go ahead and try replacing the simm modules.

I would also try messing with the S1 settings. I was messing around with them with my x68030, so they may have gotten into the wrong positions. The speed should be 70ns, i think

[Pinwizkid]

Do you have a midi board?

Try running a midi capable game, like dracula, with your midi board installed and report what happens.

Let's see if the I/O slot is your problem.

If it runs properly, then we can isolate the issue to the card. Then i would go ahead and try replacing the simm modules.

I would also try messing with the S1 settings. I was messing around with them with my x68030, so they may have gotten into the wrong positions. The speed should be 70ns, i think

Good idea. I just swapped my MIDI board with XSIMM board. The MIDI board works in both slots, so both I/O slots are good.

I took all 4 SIMM chips out, did a heavy cleaning on all of the contacts, and re-seated them. I tried putting the X-SIMM into both I/O slots, but 4MB games still crash/give ram errors when loaded. It's just not detecting that the ram is there, but it's definitely set to 12MB in Switch. Is there some other setting I am forgetting?

I currently have set my dip switches set to Example 2 for both S1 and S2 on these diagrams:
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:xsimm10_-_memory_expansion_board

My next plan is to try taking out the 1MB chips and make it an 8MB card with just the two 4MB SIMMS to see if a different combination will get it to fire up. After that I might have to assume that I fried the SIMMs when I turned the machine on with the dip switches not properly set (if that is possible).

-BB

[Opethian]

How much RAM does LHES report you have installed?
are you mixing speeds at all?

[Pinwizkid]

How much RAM does LHES report you have installed?
are you mixing speeds at all?

Yes, I am mixing speeds. Is this a no no? I followed example 2 on this diagram:
http://gamesx.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?w=350&tok=b6c771&media=x68000:xsimm10_6_translated.png

LHES is saying I have 11635 KB free, which I suppose would seem right. I'm not sure if it's just looking at my RAM setting in switch and then subtracting whatever RAM is being aollcated for LHES or if it's actually detecting all 12MB as being present. Here's what I'm getting:

[BlueBMW]

Can you provide the numbers off the actual chips on the ram chips themselves?  I want to verify the size / speed of the ram modules and then go through and figure out exactly what your dips should be.

My xsimm10 is configured as follows:

Keep in mind that the board lists 1=OFF so therefor setting a switch to ON / 1 means 0 in the chart.

Slots A: 4mb @ 60ns
Slots B: 1mb @ 100ns

S1:
A0 + A1 ON (for setting A pair speed of 60ns)
B0 + B1 OFF (for setting B pair speed of 100ns)
AZ ON (for setting A pair size of 4mb)
switches 1,2, and 6 are all set to ON (are not used)

S2:
B0 OFF  \
B1 ON    | sets B pair start address to A00000 address (10mb)
B2 OFF  /
A0 OFF \
A1 ON   | sets A pair start address to 200000 address (2mb)
A2 ON  /
AZ OFF (sets A pair size to 4mb)

[BlueBMW]

It looks like your settings are mostly correct.

Speeds are both set to 70ns which I though I heard was the right speed.

Your A bank is set to start at 20000 (2mb) which is correct
Your B bank is set to NULL though and should be set to A00000

Set your S2 switches for B0, B1 and B2 to OFF, ON and OFF respectively.

[Pinwizkid]

Thanks BlueBMW, Here is my current dip switch setup:



To add to my confusion - I have gotten SOME of the 4MB games to boot and play fine, but not many. Most of them are still giving me RAM errors. Here is a game by game breakdown of what I'm getting from the Games3 folder:

Buster: RAM Error
Butasan: Boots, plays perfect
Cockpit: Boots, plays perfect
Cotton: RAM Error / Screen Glitching
Cuebrunner: Boots, plays perfect
Daimakaimura: RAM Error
DuelFighter2: Shows Japanese text for 10 seconds, screen goes black, won't boot.
FlyingShark: Boots, starts game, but crashes as soon as button is pushed while playing.
Garou2: RAM Error
Hatenkou: RAM Error
IlluminationLaser: Draws loading dots forever in dos. Never loads.
ImageFight: No error messages, but won't boot. Blank screen.
Overtake: Boots, hangs on "Please Wait" screen when game is started, then kicks back to menu.
Strider: Monitor goes out of sync due to 15khz. No sound.
SuperStarShooter: Boots, plays perfect.
SupStreetfighter2: RAM Error
ThunderForceII: Crashes on Tecnosoft screen. Makes scary noises.

I removed the XSIMM-10 and tried booting the games that worked - they don't - so the XSIMM-10 must be at least partially working at this point.

I've also noticed that LHES does accurately detect and show the available ram and doesn't seem to base it on what is set in Switch. For example, when the XSIMM-10 is installed, it shows 11635KB free, but if I remove the XSIMM-10 completely, it will report that only 1635KB is free, even without changing the RAM setting in Switch. I think it's safe to assume that the system is at least detecting that the RAM is there.

MTEST.R still gives me an error immediately upon checking the Main Memory at address $00000000.

I tried removing the B pair completely and just running 8MB (and adjusting the dipswitch address settings accordingly), but that caused a ton of extremely cryptic startup errors with random bits of changing character glyphs skewed everywhere. Not good.

The model numbers of my SIMM modules are:

4MB: 4000XMM-A (RAM chip model #HM514100AS8)
1MB: MSC23108-80DS2 (RAM chip model #M514400A-70SJ)

My 3 next courses of action are:

1) Reseat the I/O riser
2) Reflow the solder on the XSIMM-10 caps - they look like they have been replaced and the solder may have cracked during shipping.
3) Replace the SIMM Modules.

Any other ideas?

[BlueBMW]

Maybe try just running the two 1mb sticks for a total of 2mb.  Might narrow down if its the SIMMs or not.

[Pinwizkid]

Maybe try just running the two 1mb sticks for a total of 2mb.  Might narrow down if its the SIMMs or not.

We have a winner. Looks like my 4MB SIMMs were bad. Cotton, Duel Fighter, Illumination laser, and Thunder Force 2 all work now with just the two 1MB SIMMs installed (and the dip switches set accordingly). I'll be checking the other games tonight.

I should mention for anyone following the dip switch diagrams from the wiki, you do not have to 100% match any of the examples listed. If your speed/address settings differ from one of the examples, it should still work as long as you set them right (my current 2MB settings are different than all 8 examples given).

Anyway, thanks for all the help in this thread. Learned a tremendous amount about the system in the process!

-BB

[famiac]

Wow. What a mess.
I'm sorry that all of that happened. I should have packed it better during shipping :/

The x68000 has quite a devilish learning curve

[Pinwizkid]

Wow. What a mess.
I'm sorry that all of that happened. I should have packed it better during shipping :/

The x68000 has quite a devilish learning curve

No worries bro - Just took a bit of effort to narrow down what was causing the issue. The board is working and that's all that matters since the SIMMs are pretty cheap.

I've learned an insane amount about this thing in the last 3 months. Final step is to solve the 15khz games. I might have to start shopping for an X68000 monitor (eeek).

[BlueBMW]

Forget dealing with an original monitor.  I'd advise one of three possible solutions:

Bisync PVM like the NEC XM29/XM29+ or XM37 (wont do 24k but is great for 15 and 31k)
Trisync LCD like the NEC Accusync LCD71V or LCD51V (NOT 72V or 52V!)
Micomsoft XPC4 scaler unit (takes everything the 68k outputs and converts it to modern resolutions beautifully)

[elmer]

Trisync LCD like the NEC Accusync LCD71V or LCD51V (NOT 72V or 52V!)

Thanks, I didn't know that these existed! 

For me, a smallish LCD to use on the top of my desk would be perfect.

An XPC4 is the obvious choice ... but it is pretty expensive, and I'd like to put off that expense for a while, if possible.

Of the 2 Accusyncs ... which is better?

The 15" one is 1024x768, so it should be a good match for 256 wide, 512 wide, and 1024 wide display modes.

The 17" one is 1280x1024, so it should be good for 256 wide and 320 wide display modes ... but 512 and 1024 wide are going to have some pixel-doubling.

I'm still learning about the X68000 ...

do many (any?) games use a 320-wide display mode?
do many (any?) games use a 512-wide display mode?

IIRC ... the native "desktop" is 1024-wide ... is that correct?

[BlueBMW]

A few games display too big for the LCDs so you end up with a little bit cut off at the top and bottom, but nothing that renders stuff unplayable.   The only other difference between the two is the physical size... a 15" display vs 17"

[elmer]

Thanks!

With a bit more research and puzzling over hieroglyphs in Inside X68000, it looks like the computer basically outputs 768x512, 512x512, 512x256 and 256x256 resolutions.

It looks like some games tweak the timings to output 384-wide or 240-high.

Hmmm ... I guess that either of the 2 NEC AccuSync LCD monitors are going to be a bit of a compromise, the 15" may look better in games (both 256 wide and 512 wide modes map to the monitor's 1024 wide LCD), but the 17" should look better in text modes (the 512 high mode maps to the monitor's 1024 high LCD).

[BlueBMW]

Its a compromise for sure but a $40 LCD ($$) versus trying to get an original monitor ($$$$ + old and broken) or an XPC-4 ($$$$$$) seems worth the inconveniences to me.

[Pinwizkid]

I will probably try to track down one of those Accusync monitors to start, but I'm considering saving up for an original CRT just to "complete the ensemble." I'm willing to pay a decent price for a working one, but shipping it certainly is gonna suck. I've had very good luck with all the other stuff I've imported recently at least.

The XPC-4 is absolutely way too expensive for what it does IMHO. I'm sure it's a great product at what it's meant to do, but for nearly $400 it just doesn't feel like a good value.

[elmer]

Its a compromise for sure but a $40 LCD ($$) versus trying to get an original monitor ($$$$ + old and broken) or an XPC-4 ($$$$$$) seems worth the inconveniences to me.

Absolutely!

[Opethian]

I will probably try to track down one of those Accusync monitors to start, but I'm considering saving up for an original CRT just to "complete the ensemble." I'm willing to pay a decent price for a working one, but shipping it certainly is gonna suck. I've had very good luck with all the other stuff I've imported recently at least.

The XPC-4 is absolutely way too expensive for what it does IMHO. I'm sure it's a great product at what it's meant to do, but for nearly $400 it just doesn't feel like a good value.

$400 and you have an endless supply of monitors to hook it up to
gamble on shipping a CRT and it could die in transit or of old age.

hope you have high luck stats

[SuperDeadite]

You can still get brand new tri-sync arcade crts off ebay.  Just build a box to mount it in, and you'll get a fantastic multi use display that will last a long time.  A far better choice then investing in a 20 year old monitor imo.