1080i and a computer monitor?

[LastGen]

So I have a PS2, a Sync On Green monitor, and a D-Terminal cable. I know I should have no problems running my 480p games, but what about GT4's 1080i mode?

From what I understand a computer monitor doesn't accept 480i so does this mean it doesn't accept 1080i also?

Is there an adapter/transcoder that will accept 1080i and convert it to 720p/1080i?

[LastGen]

Ok. Part of my question has been answered.
Turns out the PS2 only does VGA with the Linux Kit VGA cable, but I know that the GC uses a D-Terminal modified for VGA so can I not do this with a PS2 D-Terminal cable?

[NFG]

The PS2 does not normally support VGA, and even with the Linux cable most games do not offer a VGA mode (you can use a glitchy hack to force it).

The GameCube was designed with progressive in mind, and 480p is basically the same as VGA.  The GC cable, whether D-terminal or regular component cable, isn't really part of the process.  It creates RGB, it doesn't upscan.

[mr. newbie]

you can get a scaler but at resolutions like that it'll be pricey. 90% of computer monitors cant take an interlaced signal.

heres one scaler http://www.lenexpo-electronics.com/product...&cat=305&page=1 $1300.

[Endymion]

Ok. Part of my question has been answered.
Turns out the PS2 only does VGA with the Linux Kit VGA cable, but I know that the GC uses a D-Terminal modified for VGA so can I not do this with a PS2 D-Terminal cable?

The PS2 uses Red, Green, and Blue on the same lines that carry Y, Pb and Pr. If you go to the settings and change from Y Pb Pr to RGB, the same cable that sends a component signal can be used to carry RGB. When using VGA, the same pins are in use as well, but you can only make games run in VGA mode by way of loading a hack. This hack was originally sold on a disc along with a PS2 VGA cable made by Blaze. It has been copied around the world and back so you can probably find it in the usual places. The hack is dodgy, may cause undesirable or unplayable problems, and does not work on many games. Generally speaking, it works perfectly on any game that supports progressive scan, it's the rest that you have to try and see. It is mostly not worth bothering with other than an experiment as you will surely find a great deal of your favourite titles are unsupported, and the quality in general is not going to visibly improve over a good component signal and display. (Which is easy to get and use!)

1080i titles will not work directly in the VGA mode, yes, even by forcing it--the "i" in that term stands for interlaced, and VGA is not interlaced. If you insist on pursuing this you will have to live with 480p for your PS2 titles, but trust me when I say it is not worth so much of the bother. I can easily do it with two of my monitors and I went straight back to using component. (I did play Metal Gear Solid 3 for five hours straight but this had little to do with playing it in VGA mode.)

[blackevilweredragon]

Ok. Part of my question has been answered.
Turns out the PS2 only does VGA with the Linux Kit VGA cable, but I know that the GC uses a D-Terminal modified for VGA so can I not do this with a PS2 D-Terminal cable?

The PS2 uses Red, Green, and Blue on the same lines that carry Y, Pb and Pr. If you go to the settings and change from Y Pb Pr to RGB, the same cable that sends a component signal can be used to carry RGB. When using VGA, the same pins are in use as well, but you can only make games run in VGA mode by way of loading a hack. This hack was originally sold on a disc along with a PS2 VGA cable made by Blaze. It has been copied around the world and back so you can probably find it in the usual places. The hack is dodgy, may cause undesirable or unplayable problems, and does not work on many games. Generally speaking, it works perfectly on any game that supports progressive scan, it's the rest that you have to try and see. It is mostly not worth bothering with other than an experiment as you will surely find a great deal of your favourite titles are unsupported, and the quality in general is not going to visibly improve over a good component signal and display. (Which is easy to get and use!)

1080i titles will not work directly in the VGA mode, yes, even by forcing it--the "i" in that term stands for interlaced, and VGA is not interlaced. If you insist on pursuing this you will have to live with 480p for your PS2 titles, but trust me when I say it is not worth so much of the bother. I can easily do it with two of my monitors and I went straight back to using component. (I did play Metal Gear Solid 3 for five hours straight but this had little to do with playing it in VGA mode.)

i might have misunderstood you, but modern VGA monitors (usually '97 and higher that are 17" and higher), do support 1080i (interlaced)..

[LastGen]

*Update*

Ok, I've done more research today and I'm getting closer to an answer I can understand. The D-Terminal cable used for Japan HDTV displays carries up to 1080i and is basically a form of Component. Also, Sync On Green is another name for Component in the computer world, it is actually "Sync On Y". The point is, according to what I understand, if you have a computer monitor that supports Sync On Green you should be able to connect the PS2 right up to it and play 480p enabled games. Now I just need to find or build an adapter.

Update #2

Ok I think I've just about got this figured out. Looks like PS2 directly to a Sync On Green monitor is absolutely possible.

First let's talk about the VGA connector. The connector is called an HD15 connector and if your monitor is Sync On Green but only one connector it is probably an HD15. Companies like SGI and SUN and many Sony Trinitron computer monitors will accept a Sync On Green signal, which brings me to our next option, the 13W3 connector.

The 13W3 connector has 10 pins and 3 mini-coaxial connectors. The 10 pins are not used with a Sync On Green connection, they are only there incase the signal is VGA or non-Sync On Green. Basically this means you have 3 coaxial connectors that are red, green and blue respectively. The Green line carries the synchronization signals which, if I'm correct, is how the PS2 and other consoles output a component signal that your TV understands.

So now what?
Assuming your MultiSync (Sync On Green) monitor has the HD15 or VGA plug you could purchase a 13W3 connector and then use your Component cables to get the Sync On Green signal. Only problem is connecting the RCA's of the cable to the mini-coaxial connectors of the 13W3 cable. Remember, those 10 extra pins are not used so all we need to do, theoretically, is get our Sync On Green signal through to the monitor. We should be able to purchase or build some RCA to mini-coaxial adapters.

Female version of 13W3


Male version of 13W3


Now assuming your Sync On Green monitor already has the 13W3 plug you should be able to purchase some type of RCA connector tomini-coaxial and just plug it right up.

Matter of fact, look what I found for under $4.00 each
BNC to RCA

What do you guys think?
Should it work?


You can ignore this part. I just left it for reference:

Ok, something doesn't make sense here and I think either there are some misconceptions about the PS2 and VGA or Sony uses magic to make it work and us non magicians can't do it.

If you own a PS2 Linux Kit you get a PS2 VGA cable. This cable will allow you to play Progressive Scan games on a Sync on Green monitor, so obviously, the PS2 can output VGA Sync on Green natively. What I want to know is how can I get one of these cables or how can I build one?

I know the Gamecube and Xbox360 in Japan use a D-Terminal that can be converted to VGA so why can't this work for the PS2?

Yes, I know only a few games, actually much more than a few, for PS2 support 480p, but those games are supported and those games should run in VGA no problem with the correct adapter. (PS2 Linux Kit VGA Cable)

Games that support 480p just off the top of my head:

God of War
Burnout 2
Burnout 3
Burnout Revenge
Soul Calibur 2
Soul Calibur 3
Tekken 4
Tekken 5
Black
Jak 2
Jak 3
Jak X
Ratchet & Clank: UYA
Ratchet & Clank: GC
Ratchet Deadlocked
Gran Turismo 4
Fatal Frame III
Ghost Hunter
Primal
Guilty Gear X2 #Reload
Guilty Gear Isuka
Guilty Gear XX Slash
Haunting Ground
RE4

[NFG]

Sync on Green is not a fancy name for component.  RGB with SoG is nothing, nothing like component.  Component is a signal that's compressed and uses a complex reconstitution algorithm to rebuild the image at the display end.

Remember, the PS2 is unique in its ability to offer component OR RGB on the same wires, depending on how it's configured in the setup menu.  Remember also that the kind of connector you use has no bearing on the signals that you have, so it's perfectly easy to connect a VGA monitor to a PS2 using 19 different adapting cables, but if the PS2 is putting out component the monitor will freak out.

[LastGen]

Sync on Green is not a fancy name for component.  RGB with SoG is nothing, nothing like component.  Component is a signal that's compressed and uses a complex reconstitution algorithm to rebuild the image at the display end.

Remember, the PS2 is unique in its ability to offer component OR RGB on the same wires, depending on how it's configured in the setup menu.  Remember also that the kind of connector you use has no bearing on the signals that you have, so it's perfectly easy to connect a VGA monitor to a PS2 using 19 different adapting cables, but if the PS2 is putting out component the monitor will freak out.

So if I set the PS2 to output RGB then boot up a game that supports 480p(640x480 @ 60Hz) while connected to a SoG monitor it should work?

[NFG]

It should, though I rarely play PS2 and don't really know if the games will demand you use component instead of RGB.

[LastGen]

I'm still confused with all this, and I'm sorry if I keep asking dumb questions. I really do appreciate the responses. I tried google but still get confusing answers. Is there a video primer here at gamesx?

I just got this from Wikipedia.

Analog component video
Analog video signals (also called components) must provide red, green and blue signals to create a television image. The simplest type, RGB, consists of the three discrete red, green and blue signals sent down three coaxial cables. There are a number of variant schemes which vary according to how synchronization is handled. If a synchronisation signal is sent on the green channel, it is called sync-on-green. Some schemes use a separate sync channel, for instance the European SCART connection scheme in which the video signal occupies four (R,G,B + sync) of the 21 pins in the interface. SVGA, another RGB scheme, is used worldwide for computer monitors (this is sometimes known as RGBHV, as the horizontal and vertical synchronisation pulses are sent on separate lines).

According to this component is RGB, but I think maybe the are refering to the type of cable? I don't know.. Anyway, the site claims SoG is RGB with synchronization sent through the green chanel. So as long as the game and monitor support it, it should work. Iv'e heard people claim the Linux Kit VGA cable is VGA, but this is incorrect. It can't be because it only works with SoG monitors, so it must be SoG right?

See, there is a database of SoG monitors that work with the PS2 Linux kit available here. Also, according to the Linux Kit faq 480p capable games work with the VGA cable, which isn't really a VGA cable cause it only works with SoG monitors. I figure it is a simple D-Terminal with a VGA plug stuck on the end.

[NFG]

That wikipedia quote is unecessarily confusing.  RGB is technically a component video format, as it uses different components on different lines, but it's not component video.  

Component video, as a term describing a video type, now exclusively refers to the RGB-coloured connectors on the back of your TV and DVD player.  Despite the unfortunate colours, they're NOT RGB.  I'm going to slay the next motherfucking salesman who tells me they're the SAME, they're NOT.

Anyway, from a compatibility standpoint RGB is nothing like component video, don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise.  It's not the same signal at a different resolution or scan rate, it's not even similar except that it uses three wires to carry the image.

which isn't really a VGA cable cause it only works with SoG monitors.

It's no less VGA because it uses SoG.  

I figure it is a simple D-Terminal with a VGA plug stuck on the end.

This phrase makes no sense.  D-Terminal is a Japan-only connector type that carries ONLY component video, it's not used for anything else, ever.  It has extra pins for signalling the monitor what video mode it can expect, but these are only ground pins, no digital or analogue signal is carried over them.

PS:  of course there's a video primer.

[LastGen]

That wikipedia quote is unecessarily confusing.  RGB is technically a component video format, as it uses different components on different lines, but it's not component video.  

Component video, as a term describing a video type, now exclusively refers to the RGB-coloured connectors on the back of your TV and DVD player.  Despite the unfortunate colours, they're NOT RGB.  I'm going to slay the next motherfucking salesman who tells me they're the SAME, they're NOT.

Anyway, from a compatibility standpoint RGB is nothing like component video, don't believe anyone who tells you otherwise.  It's not the same signal at a different resolution or scan rate, it's not even similar except that it uses three wires to carry the image.

which isn't really a VGA cable cause it only works with SoG monitors.

It's no less VGA because it uses SoG.  

I figure it is a simple D-Terminal with a VGA plug stuck on the end.

This phrase makes no sense.  D-Terminal is a Japan-only connector type that carries ONLY component video, it's not used for anything else, ever.  It has extra pins for signalling the monitor what video mode it can expect, but these are only ground pins, no digital or analogue signal is carried over them.

PS:  of course there's a video primer.

OK, thanks a bunch Lawrence. I'll start reading up on everything, we are all a noob sometime. The Xbox VGA how to is giving me some ideas. I wonder if progressive scan games will work on a PC monitor with the Blaze cable without the boot disk.

[LastGen]

It is mostly not worth bothering with other than an experiment as you will surely find a great deal of your favourite titles are unsupported, and the quality in general is not going to visibly improve over a good component signal and display. (Which is easy to get and use!)

I figured as much, but I wanted to see them in 480p on an SGI monitor which will look substatially better than 95% of other computer monitors on the market. I have a calibrated Sony WEGA Trinitron and my PS2 games look pretty spiffy on it, on par with its rivals atleast.

[NFG]

You've got the right attitude, LastGen.   You'll figure it out, I'm sure.

[LastGen]

You've got the right attitude, LastGen.   You'll figure it out, I'm sure.

Thanks Lawrence.

I know you and others may be wondering why even bother with this if only a few games on PS2 support 480p. And also why can't I get it through my head that the PS2's output display is crap and it won't work.

Well, there are a few reasons.
First off, the computer monitor I'm using right now is just about to die. As I'm typing this it's flickering and making all kinds of strange junk. I need a new monitor but I can't spend over $200. I also plan on doing some graphics work in the near future so I may as well look for a refurbished SGI or SUN monitor with Sony's Trinitron tubes in it. *You know something of high quality but for a cheap price* They are around, and you can find them fairly cheap if you look hard. Second, I love my PS2 games but my TV doesn't support 480p, even though my games look pretty awesome on my TV I'd love to try out 480p on a nice monitor like an SGI. I have two PS2's already, I need a new monitor, so I'm thinking why not get one that is multisync and see if I can get my other PS2 to work with it?

I mean, come on, if Sony made a VGA cable for the thing and it has been confirmed that Socom, Tekken 4, and other 480p games work with the cable on an SoG monitor then surely I or someone can build or sell a VGA cable for the PS2. I suppose I could track down an XRGB-2, XSELECT-D4, or get the Audio Authority 9A62 Component to VGA transcoder, but damnit that would be too easy.  

[Endymion]

i might have misunderstood you, but modern VGA monitors (usually '97 and higher that are 17" and higher), do support 1080i (interlaced)..

Maybe I misunderstand you, but where does the VGA spec call for interlacing? What are the monitors you speak of doing with an interlaced signal to translate it to something it can use?

[Endymion]

I mean, come on, if Sony made a VGA cable for the thing and it has been confirmed that Socom, Tekken 4, and other 480p games work with the cable on an SoG monitor then surely I or someone can build or sell a VGA cable for the PS2. I suppose I could track down an XRGB-2, XSELECT-D4, or get the Audio Authority 9A62 Component to VGA transcoder, but damnit that would be too easy.

Maybe you missed the part where I mentioned that Blaze made a cable for this? It comes with the CD that has the hack to enable some nonworking games. It costs less than 20 dollars.

Edit--Okay, a little more than 20 dollars, still in the same ballpark, very reasonable, and saves a lot of trouble making your own cable.

[blackevilweredragon]

i might have misunderstood you, but modern VGA monitors (usually '97 and higher that are 17" and higher), do support 1080i (interlaced)..

Maybe I misunderstand you, but where does the VGA spec call for interlacing? What are the monitors you speak of doing with an interlaced signal to translate it to something it can use?

You can't do a search for VGA for it's spec.  Because what you are getting is the REAL VGA spec.  Now adays, it's not really VGA anymore, but just analog RGB (they use the VGA connector and pinouts, but it's not really VGA)

Also, ALL my "VGA" monitors can handle an interlaced timing..  They just report their refresh rate two times that that windows says...

[LastGen]

Maybe you missed the part where I mentioned that Blaze made a cable for this? It comes with the CD that has the hack to enable some nonworking games. It costs less than 20 dollars.

Edit--Okay, a little more than 20 dollars, still in the same ballpark, very reasonable, and saves a lot of trouble making your own cable.

I have one, bought one years ago actually. They are junk, made of crap components, no code updates, and it doesn't even work with 480p capable games. GT4 sort of works but comes off with a green tint and you can only see half the image. That adapter is just complete garbage in every sense of the word.

I think I will just purchase the VD-Z3 as it appears to be of good quality, is no more expensive than a set of Monster cables, and seems to have a shorter signal chain than most units, plus I can use my own cables instead of some flimsy junk that is permanently attached. I still can't understand why some company like vdigi doesn't make a D-Terminal to VGA box for the PS2. If D-Terminal is component and the cable is 24k gold plated and is of short length it should give you the best signal, even when compared to a high quality US Component cable I always hear the D-Terminal is best.

[Endymion]

So, you've run arcade games from your VGA monitor? Other consoles? Or just 1080i? I take it your 1080i transcoder does nothing to filter the scan to anything noninterlaced? I am only going by what you're saying here, not putting words in your mouth.

[Endymion]

I have one, bought one years ago actually. They are junk, made of crap components, no code updates, and it doesn't even work with 480p capable games. GT4 sort of works but comes off with a green tint and you can only see half the image. That adapter is just complete garbage in every sense of the word.

Uh. No it isn't. You might be interested to know that the green tint you saw is what happens when you drive a Sync-on-green signal into a monitor that requires separate sync. It definitely does work with 480p games as I've used it this way many times. The transcoder you linked to is a good one and will work with multiple consoles, but will only work with games that already support progressive scan--with Blaze's cable you get that and any other games that the hack manages to work with. Its only drawbacks are that it is PS2-only and uses the sync-on-green which limits the monitors you can use it with, unless you know how to remove it. Since you are trying to get a monitor that works with sync-on-green you don't have to worry about this at all.

I might add that some of the other problems you have noticed (not having a fullscreen image, etc.) are inherent to any homebrew VGA solution that you will be able to make with the PS2. The developers rely on a lot of software trickery, overscan bits etc. to eek out more speed from the hardware. If you are going to do this you will just have to live with adjusting your screen as some games dictate. The only other option is to upscan, the various methods of doing so coming with their own drawbacks as well.

By the way, don't believe the hype about d-terminal.

[blackevilweredragon]

So, you've run arcade games from your VGA monitor? Other consoles? Or just 1080i? I take it your 1080i transcoder does nothing to filter the scan to anything noninterlaced? I am only going by what you're saying here, not putting words in your mouth.

are you talking to me?  if so, i am talking about my monitor connected to a windows computer, on a resolutino of 1920x1080 (30Hz interlaced), or even 800x600 60Hz interlaced if I wanted too...

[LastGen]

I have one, bought one years ago actually. They are junk, made of crap components, no code updates, and it doesn't even work with 480p capable games. GT4 sort of works but comes off with a green tint and you can only see half the image. That adapter is just complete garbage in every sense of the word.

Uh. No it isn't. You might be interested to know that the green tint you saw is what happens when you drive a Sync-on-green signal into a monitor that requires separate sync. It definitely does work with 480p games as I've used it this way many times. The transcoder you linked to is a good one and will work with multiple consoles, but will only work with games that already support progressive scan--with Blaze's cable you get that and any other games that the hack manages to work with. Its only drawbacks are that it is PS2-only and uses the sync-on-green which limits the monitors you can use it with, unless you know how to remove it. Since you are trying to get a monitor that works with sync-on-green you don't have to worry about this at all.

I might add that some of the other problems you have noticed (not having a fullscreen image, etc.) are inherent to any homebrew VGA solution that you will be able to make with the PS2. The developers rely on a lot of software trickery, overscan bits etc. to eek out more speed from the hardware. If you are going to do this you will just have to live with adjusting your screen as some games dictate. The only other option is to upscan, the various methods of doing so coming with their own drawbacks as well.

By the way, don't believe the hype about d-terminal.

The problem with the Blaze adapter is that it doesn't center properly on most games, and is completely uncalibrated and offers no means of adjusting the picture. A quality built part should center properly and require very little to no adjustments. Also the D-Terminal cable is of high quality comparable to a Monster or Better Cables. The only high quality PS2 Component cable made is Monster and even it isn't the highest. Those D-Terminal cables are both short and of high quality and should offer better shielding and a stronger signal to work with. I know many people say a cable is a cable and there is no difference. From my experience there is a difference, the switch from Mad Catz to Monster was night and day, even after calibrating the TV to each set.  

[Endymion]

The problem with the Blaze adapter is that it doesn't center properly on most games, and is completely uncalibrated and offers no means of adjusting the picture.

Despite what you may think, this is not a problem with the Blaze adapter. Spend the money on a PS2 Linux kit or cable, or build your own. It will run PS2 Linux in VGA perfectly. Then try to run a game. You will have these problems, period.

A quality built part should center properly and require very little to no adjustments.

The adjustments you are referring to would take place in the implementation--in other words, it isn't the cable, no matter how much you want to think it is. Nobody selling PS2 games ever intended you to do what you want to do. That's why the reality is what it is.

Also the D-Terminal cable is of high quality comparable to a Monster or Better Cables. The only high quality PS2 Component cable made is Monster and even it isn't the highest. Those D-Terminal cables are both short and of high quality and should offer better shielding and a stronger signal to work with. I know many people say a cable is a cable and there is no difference. From my experience there is a difference, the switch from Mad Catz to Monster was night and day, even after calibrating the TV to each set.

For this, I will send you to the appropriate place. Electrical engineers and video professionals there will tell you why you are incorrect, and how Monster Cable and others build a business from others' ignorance.

[LastGen]

[/QUOTE]

Despite what you may think, this is not a problem with the Blaze adapter. Spend the money on a PS2 Linux kit or cable, or build your own. It will run PS2 Linux in VGA perfectly. Then try to run a game. You will have these problems, period.

I'll take your word for it as I don't know much about the PS2 and VGA. I know, for a fact, that when playing PS2 games on my TV they are always centered perfectly every single time. I never adjust anything, brightness, gamma, colors, etc are always perfect with every game due to proper calibration of my TV and the finalization process of all software and video for the system.

The adjustments you are referring to would take place in the implementation.

That's what I meant, assuming a product is built specifically for the PS2 and each 480p capable game outputs the same way, then images produced by different games should need no further adjustments.

For this, I will send you to the appropriate place. Electrical engineers and video professionals there will tell you why you are incorrect, and how Monster Cable and others build a business from others' ignorance.

And I will tell them why they are partly incorrect.
While I agree Monster Cable is far from high quality, they are the highest quality comonent cable offered for the PS2 in the US at the time I purchased mine (Sony makes much higher quality cables now). You have electromagnetic interference, signal loss, frequency loss, chroma delay, luminance loss, crosstalk, dielectric constant, etc, and cable construction itself that contribute to the quality of the cable. While I agree that SuperUberCable is not magically better than AverageJoeCable at short lengths with no nearby EMIs there may be differences in construction, shielding, length, signal loss, inconsistent manufacturing, etc that contribute to what you see on the screen or hear from the speakers. They key here is what is made for PS2 not what is made period. I don't have any expensive cables for my SAT, VCR, DVD, etc because I can just order some good quality cables for cheap off the internet. For PS2 there aren't many choices if I want a 5+ foot cable that can fend of EMI from my surrounding equipment.

[Endymion]

I'll take your word for it as I don't know much about the PS2 and VGA. I know, for a fact, that when playing PS2 games on my TV they are always centered perfectly every single time. I never adjust anything, brightness, gamma, colors, etc are always perfect with every game due to proper calibration of my TV and the finalization process of all software and video for the system.

You don't have to take my word for it. Google around for info on people who have made their own VGA cables, register and search at ps2-scene.org. Lots of people have done this by now with ready-made equipment like Blaze and the PS2 Linux kit, or modified component cables to make their own. I have seen one linked to here where a guy created a VGA dongle, that way he can use any PS2 component cable with it. If all VGA cables made have issues with the same game what does that tell you? The problem is not caused by the cable.

The adjustments you are referring to would take place in the implementation.

That's what I meant, assuming a product is built specifically for the PS2 and each 480p capable game outputs the same way, then images produced by different games should need no further adjustments.

The implementation I was referring to is the adjustment that is necessary. I just told you that different developers use different software tricks, and slice up the screen in different ways in order to have more raw power available for the effects, texturing, lighting, etc. that they are trying to do on the PS2. As the console has aged, the use of this kind of stuff has increased, and more of the older ahead-of-their-time games did this as well. So every game is different and uses different overscan trickery to function in different ways, and at the end of the day is not made to function in VGA mode. The resolution rarely makes a one-to-one crossover to the fixed-hack (fixed as in "hasn't changed in years") which is the only way to activate VGA mode for much of this stuff, and the implementation (this is software again) of a 480p game need not make use of the full screen for a television. You are seeing the full screen as it was implemented when you do VGA, a TV knows how to hide it in its various broadcast modes. That is what the devs are programming for.

For this, I will send you to the appropriate place. Electrical engineers and video professionals there will tell you why you are incorrect, and how Monster Cable and others build a business from others' ignorance.

And I will tell them why they are partly incorrect.

So can I look forward to seeing you there?

[blackevilweredragon]

I have long talked with engineers, and they always seem to agree that cable quality IS important..  some are better conductors than others...

for example, on my xbox, if I get regular S-video cables from "Pelican", my picture has wavy diagonal lines.  If I get Microsofts S-Video breakout box and use regular S-Video cables, the lines are gone, but when the picture is black, you can see horizantale lines moving around..  If I get ultra-shielded cables, and ones that are gold plated, the picture looks perfect as far as S-Video is concerened...

cables do matter, especially the shielding..

[-Martin-]

The PS2 does not normally support VGA, and even with the Linux cable most games do not offer a VGA mode (you can use a glitchy hack to force it).

The GameCube was designed with progressive in mind, and 480p is basically the same as VGA.  The GC cable, whether D-terminal or regular component cable, isn't really part of the process.  It creates RGB, it doesn't upscan.

Lawrence, *I have a question.

When using an RGB cable, and playing a game that runs in "480p" what exactly is the PS2 outputting?
as my non interlaced 480 TV *tries* to display it as I have selected it in the past by acident and it has resulted in a rolling mess, but with the RIGHT colours.

any ideas?

[-Martin-]

woops, I just realized my Q was answeres further up

[-Martin-]

The problem with the Blaze adapter is that it doesn't center properly on most games, and is completely uncalibrated and offers no means of adjusting the picture.

Despite what you may think, this is not a problem with the Blaze adapter. Spend the money on a PS2 Linux kit or cable, or build your own. It will run PS2 Linux in VGA perfectly. Then try to run a game. You will have these problems, period.

A quality built part should center properly and require very little to no adjustments.

The adjustments you are referring to would take place in the implementation--in other words, it isn't the cable, no matter how much you want to think it is. Nobody selling PS2 games ever intended you to do what you want to do. That's why the reality is what it is.

Also the D-Terminal cable is of high quality comparable to a Monster or Better Cables. The only high quality PS2 Component cable made is Monster and even it isn't the highest. Those D-Terminal cables are both short and of high quality and should offer better shielding and a stronger signal to work with. I know many people say a cable is a cable and there is no difference. From my experience there is a difference, the switch from Mad Catz to Monster was night and day, even after calibrating the TV to each set.

For this, I will send you to the appropriate place. Electrical engineers and video professionals there will tell you why you are incorrect, and how Monster Cable and others build a business from others' ignorance.

The overscan area in most games is displayed when you play on LCD TVs usually.

I'm not sure if it's normally done for efficieny reasons though, as normally the window being rendered is only a tiny bit smaller than the full resolution of the actual "screen" being output.

Also, about monster cables - they have good quality:
Better shielding really does help.
It's not a big difference, but it does, trust me.
Component is analog, and suseptable to interfearence.

I personally can see the difference between my cheap �3 Scart and my big rubber coated multi shielded monster scart

Although it will not make any difference to the centering of the image... nope. Or the overscan border.

Also, high quality cables last longer - fact.
Cheap non ofc cables rust eventually, as does all metal with exposure to oxygen.
Gold plating on connectors slows down oxidation on connectors, I personally have seen this on action, because I have some old aluminium scart plugs that have gone all bround and shit.

Basically HQ cabling does help... by a smal fraction, although the difference between such cables becomes more apparent with age.

[Endymion]

Short of a cable defect, a properly made cable should not display lines, ghostings, waviness, etc. beyond the method of transfer that it is bringing through. Maybe you guys think I'm advocating using any old cable made in some Chinese sweatshop that barely has a connection at its plug housing, but rest assured, I'm talking about a properly made cable--there's going to be no measurable difference in the end product, and I've seen this argued to death and back on A/V forums around the globe, no matter what kind of signal loss you try to posit. Gold plated cables don't rust easily of course, but unless you live by the coast or near sea level I fail to see how this is a very long term issue for most of the video gaming planet. (I know the earth is 70% water but we don't all live in 70% of that and the seaside real estate is mighty expensive these days.) It's still not going to produce a godly picture that a less expensive, non-jeweled cable will provide presuming of course it isn't a complete wack job just for the thing not being gold.

And yeah Martin, sounds like your RGB/SCART cable is outputting component, just change the settings to take it to RGB. I haven't seen the effects of this but it sounds similar to trying to run an RGB signal on a component-only TV input.

[RARusk]

One option is, if you have an older model PS2 (SCPH-30000) and you have the skills and daring to try it, is to go here and get the RGB signals straight from the motherboard itself.

I have yet to try the sync-on-green removal hack since I need to replace my damaged Version 3 motherboard with a new one or try to get another SCPH-30000 unit and hack that one up.

I should note the "True Crime: Streets of LA" needs to be added to the Progressive Scan games list.

I realize that the topic starter is a beginner but I wanted to point out that there are more options to doing PS2 RGB.

[-Martin-]

Short of a cable defect, a properly made cable should not display lines, ghostings, waviness, etc. beyond the method of transfer that it is bringing through. Maybe you guys think I'm advocating using any old cable made in some Chinese sweatshop that barely has a connection at its plug housing, but rest assured, I'm talking about a properly made cable--there's going to be no measurable difference in the end product, and I've seen this argued to death and back on A/V forums around the globe, no matter what kind of signal loss you try to posit. Gold plated cables don't rust easily of course, but unless you live by the coast or near sea level I fail to see how this is a very long term issue for most of the video gaming planet. (I know the earth is 70% water but we don't all live in 70% of that and the seaside real estate is mighty expensive these days.) It's still not going to produce a godly picture that a less expensive, non-jeweled cable will provide presuming of course it isn't a complete wack job just for the thing not being gold.

And yeah Martin, sounds like your RGB/SCART cable is outputting component, just change the settings to take it to RGB. I haven't seen the effects of this but it sounds similar to trying to run an RGB signal on a component-only TV input.

Yeah, I agree with you pretty much.
But there are some very small, hard to notice artifacts that are apparent on some "good" cabes that aren't really there on "great" cables. Although this of course tend to apply only to RGB and Component as S-Video and Composite decoders and encoders are so crap it doesn't really matter how good a cable you use.

As I said, it is a VERY small difference, but it's no where near WORTH the amount of money they charge for it!  It's so small you can ususally only see it if you sit with your face pressed against the screen, but you may have noticed a slight "pixel dusting" effect that takes place on analog RGB, this can be reduced more with lots and lots of shielding and heavily twisted pairs. However, it's not noticable from normal viewing distances and it's not reduced by any significant amount by heavily shielded wires.

It is more noticable on audio devices than on visual, as is the sensitivity of the human brain and body. Personally, I think there is a VERY LARGE difference between cheap Speaker wire, and good speaker wire, not over short distances, but on surround set ups it makes a big difference.

One thing that "monster" cables are good for, are applications such as wall implementation and out door use, as the jacket's on them tend to be considerably tuffer and totally sealed, to keep the damp out

What annoys me more is when you get "Composite+Stereo" cables, with the same spec as "Componenet" cables... and they have the same spec, yet the component ones cost more.
It's fucking idiotic SHIT, they're the same goddamned cables T_T! And Idiots don't know that!

I saw an S-Video cable here for �100! I was like WTF, and they had RGB ones for �10... I was like, what kind of moron would buy that, rest assured, someone always does.

I hate Soccer moms. RTFM  

[LastGen]

According to the Playstation 2 manual, all PS2 and PS1 software supports the RGB mode. And thank you RARusk for the link, I will check it out.

Strange thing is, if all 480p capable games work in RGB then why on earth hasn't anyone taken a D-Terminal cable and made a VGA cable from it? I know you would have to blind boot 480p games and you would need an SoG monitor, but so what? There are more than a handful of games that support 480p and many of them do look great.

Also, I noticed the new VD-Z3 manual claims it now supports 480i for RGBHV sync mode.(Xbox Dashboard?) I'm not sure what RGBHV is though.

[-Martin-]

Yes the PS2 supports Progressive in RGB mode.
RGBHV is RGB + Hori and Vert Sync

[Endymion]

Strange thing is, if all 480p capable games work in RGB then why on earth hasn't anyone taken a D-Terminal cable and made a VGA cable from it?

Because doing this would give you the same exact results as making a VGA cable from a component cable? Or from any other cable for that matter? What makes you think this hasn't been done? We have been discussing it in this very thread the whole time. If you want to do this get a component cable and go to town, you will not get results any different from a component cable that is not inherently defective, and a component cable can be easily found for ten dollars. You said you were going to get a large RGB monitor capable of green sync, so what's the problem at this point? Get to work!

Actually come to think of it, you already have the Blaze cable so you should just be able to get the monitor you want, plug it up and go to town. Provided the monitor you have can sync to 15 and 31KHz you would not be limited to progressive scan games either. What more do you want?

[LastGen]

Strange thing is, if all 480p capable games work in RGB then why on earth hasn't anyone taken a D-Terminal cable and made a VGA cable from it?

Because doing this would give you the same exact results as making a VGA cable from a component cable? Or from any other cable for that matter? What makes you think this hasn't been done? We have been discussing it in this very thread the whole time. If you want to do this get a component cable and go to town, you will not get results any different from a component cable that is not inherently defective, and a component cable can be easily found for ten dollars. You said you were going to get a large RGB monitor capable of green sync, so what's the problem at this point? Get to work!

Actually come to think of it, you already have the Blaze cable so you should just be able to get the monitor you want, plug it up and go to town. Provided the monitor you have can sync to 15 and 31KHz you would not be limited to progressive scan games either. What more do you want?

Why would I want to use a component cable?
Why have 3 wires hanging all over the place then soldered onto a VGA end when I could get a D-Terminal cable and have it all neat and clean?

Why hack up the Blaze?
It has a box connected to it and in that box there are resistors and capacitors and a few IC chips the signal has to go through. Why would I want to screw up a perfectly good, although cheap and crappy, VGA box?

Why use the Blaze?
Even if I simply use the Blaze VGA box why would I not want a better signal? You can claim that there is no difference between a straight through connection and one that goes through multiple circtuits if you want, but you would simply be wrong. Just like your claim that a elcheapo cable is as good as quality brand cable. I'm sorry, but there is a big difference, I should know as I calibrate TV's in my spare time and I always get better results with better cables. The difference between Mad Catz and Sony brand component cables is night and day on my Wega. Perhaps the Mad Catz has a bad solder joint or has improper shielding, I really don't know nor do I care as the Sony and Monster brands never give me problems.

Why the D-Terminal cable would be the best next to the Linux Kit VGA.
1. The cable is built to higher standards than the Blaze cable.
2. The cable is from an ISO standards manufacturing process.
2a. This means it will last longer, conduct better, and should be void of manufacturing defects among other things.
3. It is only 1 cable.
3a. This means less clutter, it won't snag on something, it should be much easier to take apart and strip, it will also be easier to connect a VGA end on it.


And finally...

Because doing this would give you the same exact results as making a VGA cable from a component cable? Or from any other cable for that matter? What makes you think this hasn't been done?

Please provide a link to instructions for building a VGA cable for the PS2!
No one has posted a link to instructions for doing this, and I have not found instructions for doing this either. The PS2 is different than most consoles and devices when outputting RGB and I'm a noob so I wanted to be sure I do it correctly.


If I could go back and redo this thread with the knowledge I have now here is what I would have asked...

A. How can I modify a PS2 D-Terminal cable for use with a Sync On Green monitor?
or
B. How can I modify a PS2 component cable for use with a Sync On Green monitor?

[Endymion]

Why would I want to use a component cable?
Why have 3 wires hanging all over the place then soldered onto a VGA end when I could get a D-Terminal cable and have it all neat and clean?

Have you ever made or modified a cable of any kind before in your life? It's called "splicing." There is no reason your cable will not be neat and clean, unless perhaps you are not neat and clean.

Why hack up the Blaze?
It has a box connected to it and in that box there are resistors and capacitors and a few IC chips the signal has to go through. Why would I want to screw up a perfectly good, although cheap and crappy, VGA box?

I am beginning to see why you are questioning every single good (i.e. right) suggestion made here--you don't know what you are doing. Why hack up the Blaze? Indeed! That's what I just said! Don't hack it up! You are getting a sync-on-green monitor! You don't NEED to hack it up! You used the Blaze with a non-SOG monitor and think it's a piece of crap. Okay. I won't stop you from not using it once you have the kind of monitor it's made to work with. Go on and do it the hard way.

Why use the Blaze?
Even if I simply use the Blaze VGA box why would I not want a better signal?

Oh please. What's wrong with the signal? It isn't syncing to fullscreen? Well dude, if that's a fault of the Blaze, it's a fault of every PS2 VGA cable yet made by human hands.

You can claim that there is no difference between a straight through connection and one that goes through multiple circtuits if you want, but you would simply be wrong.

You mean a custom-made cable that does nothing but remove sync-on-green will be crappier or better than a cable that just makes the proper connection? Okay, go ahead and add a circuit to remove that sync-on-green. That will be a big laugh after you get your sync-on-green monitor, too.

Just like your claim that a elcheapo cable is as good as quality brand cable.

The difference between you and I is your claim of what a "quality brand cable" is. El cheapo? Try 'defective.' Something made improperly is going to fuck up no matter what, but how much the damn thing costs is going to have little effect on that. There actually are lower-priced parts that aren't crap you know.

I'm sorry, but there is a big difference, I should know as I calibrate TV's in my spare time

And listening to you here, you should probably make a living at it.

and I always get better results with better cables. The difference between Mad Catz and Sony brand component cables is night and day on my Wega.

Great. My 50" Panasonic plasma shows no difference, and I've 20/20 vision.

Perhaps the Mad Catz has a bad solder joint or has improper shielding, I really don't know nor do I care as the Sony and Monster brands never give me problems.

There's a bit more honesty in that last sentence there, but I have to say at this point I'm surprised you haven't asked one of us to make the (very unnecessary) cable you want for you from this extra bit of information. The only thing you lack that you need is the monitor you talked about acquiring.

Anyway, it must feel great to just be so certain that you know it all and only the Blaze cable could possibly be fubared, maybe with your expertise you could explain it to the fellows here, who made a completely homebrew VGA cable and came up with results like this. Or are you just going to tell them they must have made an inferior cable?

[blackevilweredragon]

^^  I triple dog dare you to go onto AVScienceForum, and tell them cable quality don't make a difference.

Then I will sit back and watch as they not only tell you, but prove you in every possible way, that you are wrong.

Oh, and how does one make a cable incorrectly?  I mean, it's a simple connection really, pin to pin, ground to ground..  How would any company, even the cheap crap, mess that up?  Oh, right, avoid the fact that the quality of the cable DOES matter.

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgb...ome/cables.html

Do read up.  It states a highly important fact on how cable quality is made.  Conductor, Connector, and Shielding.  I don't know what engineers you are seeing, but might I recommend you leave them while you still can.