Genesis with 68010 Processor

Started by RobIvy64, February 20, 2006, 01:32:59 AM

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RobIvy64

February 20, 2006, 01:32:59 AM Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 08:03:10 AM by RobIvy64
I had the CPU in this thing gangster rigged, but I got some free time and professionally soldered it to the board (and threw an unnecessary heatsink on for good measure =D ).

Guide and Pics

Edit: 12/13/06

If you have built a 68010 Genesis, please check the 68010 Compatibility list to see what games you can add that aren't already listed. Thanks!
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atom

February 20, 2006, 01:45:44 AM #1 Last Edit: February 20, 2006, 01:47:42 AM by atom
OMG no you didnt put a heatsink on a motorola. ROFL. What is that super glue? The soldering is freaking excellent though man I couldnt pull that off even if the pins on that thing are huge. Good job.
forgive my broked english, for I am an AMERICAN

Drewman21

Very cool Rob.
I finally got one off of ebay and got it installed last week.  My chip was listed as "might be dead" so i ended up putting in a few cut up IC sockets to just try it out and pull it out if it was dead.  To my surprise it did boot up and run Sonic 2 pretty well.  I haven't had time to check out any of the games you had on your old site that you had said didn't work well with the MC68010 chip.

I did notice that you are using a MC68010L10 that has a 2mhz increase than the original chip that was at 8mhz.  Was your orignal machine that you had done the chip switch out was it the same model of chip? I went with a MC68010L8 to keep the mhz closer to the 68000 chip that was used.  

Just wondering if that is something you may have tried or looked at when checking the compatablity of the games you had noted didn't work.
I just got your PM by the way.  If i can get my hands on those games i'll let you know if they will work at all with my setup.  Thanks man!

Drewman21

NFG

That's pretty awesome, good work.

Thumbnails would be nice though.  =)

kendrick

What's the intellectual property status of the 68k series processors these days? Does Motorola still have a lock on the code and the instruction set, or are there any licensed third parties with manufacturing rights? I ask because Motorola chips from the mid-90's seem to be generally scarce and unavailable, and given how popular they were I'm surprised that there isn't a reliable stand-by replacement component.

-KKC, who should be more excited about Grandia III but isn't.

Aidan

Motorola licensed third parties on a number of occasions. However, I don't know if anyone still produces them in a "pure" form. A lot of the current varients are designed for the embedded market, hence have additional peripherals onboard.

Additionally, Motorola/Freescale produced the Coldfire processors. From memory, these processors were NOT object code compatible with the 68000 series, but were source code compatible. IE you just had to recompile your existing code for the Coldfire processors.
[ Not an authoritive source of information. ]

Drewman21

May 16, 2006, 10:43:46 AM #6 Last Edit: May 16, 2006, 10:50:58 AM by Drewman21
Here are the images from way back on how i did my socketed 68010 chip.





Nothing to crazy but i did get Jungle strike and Urban strike to both run with my upgraded processor  but Shaq Fu wouldn't run.  Those were the only EA games I had to try at the moment.  I'll let you know what happens if i can get a copy of Sonic 3.

Later
Drewman21

Guest

Hello, I tried to find a good Datasheet for the 68010 for ~3 hours now to find out which Socket I need. Could you please tell me which on I need to buy? (German Shop or information about a fitting one would be nice.) Especially the spaces between the pins is what I need to know.

NFG

August 09, 2006, 08:59:54 PM #8 Last Edit: August 09, 2006, 09:02:22 PM by Lawrence
Guest: No one can tell you what kind of socket you need if you don't tell them which chip you have.  I'm pretty sure the '010 came in several form factors.  I know the 68000 came in at least four.

All chips have the same spacing, unless they're weird (the Japanese were particularly fond of half-pitch chips where the pins took (shock) half as much space each).

Guest

;-) Sorry. I have the same 64 pin Layout as it can be seen in the pics above.

RobIvy64

December 14, 2006, 02:20:54 AM #10 Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 07:32:56 AM by Lawrence
Super Bumpage! With the help of some of the UCM forum members we have created a 68010 compatibility list. Please PM me if you have tested a game that is *not* already on the list and i'll add it.

68010 Compatibility list
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Drewman21

Hey Rob,
I got some games that aren't on the list so this weekend or next i'll post up what i got.
Side note though  mine is the 68010 with a 8mz processor so would you want me to note that if I find that a game that works with it if it is listed as not working on your list?
I'll let you know what i find!

blackevilweredragon

oddly, my 68010 is working with EVERY game, even those that have problems...

though mine isn't labeled as a 68010, it's HP In House number says so (contacted HP about it)..  there must be something customized about it, that somehow lets it work)

kendrick

Let's not discount the differences between Genesis boards either. Even among Mark II Megadrive units, there were at least three different revisions (by my count) which might affect processor usage. The only true test is to have a matrix of different 68010 chips and match them to one of each of the Genesis units. You could have potentially 12 different setups, all with different compatibility issues.

Also, is the TMS a factor? I wonder if that would keep some games from booting properly if running too fast.

-KKC

blackevilweredragon

QuoteLet's not discount the differences between Genesis boards either. Even among Mark II Megadrive units, there were at least three different revisions (by my count) which might affect processor usage. The only true test is to have a matrix of different 68010 chips and match them to one of each of the Genesis units. You could have potentially 12 different setups, all with different compatibility issues.

Also, is the TMS a factor? I wonder if that would keep some games from booting properly if running too fast.

-KKC
don't think TMS is an issue.. I have a model 1 Genesis with the TMS screen..

RobIvy64

December 14, 2006, 07:37:27 AM #15 Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 07:42:59 AM by RobIvy64
I've installed a 68010 in two different machines; one early Genesis without the TMS, and my current rig with the TMS.

One 68010 chip was a ceramic/gold unit, the other plastic (not that it makes a difference).

You have to consider even though motherboard revisions change, the core functionality of the Genesis cannot be changed or compatibility issues begin to unfold with some games. I have full confidence that the results listed are results anyone can expect when performing this upgrade. Most of the games listed as "Not Working" have had the results confirmed by at least 3 or 4 people.

We can't really count blackevilweredragon's chip as being a 68010 since it is not labelled as such, and besides, a 68010 has a modified instruction set, and a simple fluke consisting of "mine doesn't glitch at all" is highly unlikely. It's most likely a re-badged 68000, or a 68000 with 1 or 2 modifications to better adapt it to it's original application.
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RobIvy64

December 14, 2006, 07:38:58 AM #16 Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 08:04:28 AM by RobIvy64
QuoteHey Rob,
I got some games that aren't on the list so this weekend or next i'll post up what i got.
Side note though  mine is the 68010 with a 8mz processor so would you want me to note that if I find that a game that works with it if it is listed as not working on your list?
I'll let you know what i find!
Heck yeah, contribute what you can to the list! Thanks for helping out.
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blackevilweredragon

December 14, 2006, 07:44:50 AM #17 Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 08:24:34 AM by blackevilweredragon
QuoteI've installed a 68010 in two different machines; one early Genesis without the TMS, and my current rig with the TMS.

One 68010 chip was a ceramic/gold unit, the other plastic (not that it makes a difference).

You have to consider even though motherboard revisions change, the core functionality of the Genesis cannot be changed or compatibility issues begin to unfold with some games. I have full confidence that the results listed are results anyone can expect when performing this upgrade. Most of the games listed as "Not Working" have had the results confirmed by at least 3 or 4 people.

We can't really count blackevilweredragon's chip as being a 68010 since it is not labelled as such, and besides, a 68010 has a modified instruction set, and a simple fluke consisting of "mine doesn't glitch at all" is highly unlikely. It's most likely a re-badged 68000, or a 68000 with 1 or 2 modifications to better adapt it to it's original application.
yea, that's what i figured anyway, cause it was very odd..  atleast it's still faster than the stock one though..

EDIT:  wait, SegaMac won't boot with it though..  so something is very different about my chip though...

RobIvy64

Quotewait, SegaMac won't boot with it though..  so something is very different about my chip though...

Quote...or a 68000 with 1 or 2 modifications to better adapt it to it's original application.
B)  
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Drewman21

Side note before i head home to check.  Would a serial number database for the full sized 68000 Genesis be a good idea.  Kendrick's mention on some board revisions would be a good point to look at. The one Mark 1 I have had some after release repairs to the chip socket that i have to put back into place after I did the mod.  Some aterations could have popped up in revisions.

RobIvy64

I would do something like that, but considering the consistancy of the results i've seen I don't see a need to do so just  yet.

I don't think model 1 motherboard revisions will vary in results, but as more and more people perform this mod and if different results begin to surface i'll look into it.
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blackevilweredragon

out of curiosity..  Rob, did you attach the capacitor and wire, on the bottom of the board?  The wire is to ground the CPU..  The capacitor, im still trying to figure out, which pin is that?  (i dont want to take apart my genesis again, the screws are stripping)

RobIvy64

I've only seen those on the earliest of Genesis revisions, but on my first machine I did, yes.

My current rig didn't have it.
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blackevilweredragon

QuoteI've only seen those on the earliest of Genesis revisions, but on my first machine I did, yes.

My current rig didn't have it.
ok..

well, i contacted "Agilent Technologies", about the CPU, to get some information..  ill repeat whatever they say (since legally, i can't copy and paste the email)

NFG

Quote(since legally, i can't copy and paste the email)
This strikes me as a very odd thing to say.  Why do you say it?

Joe Redifer

Obviously the reason that the 68010 doesn't work with all Genesis games is because the 68010 doesn't have Blast Processing.  Duh.  Back when Tom Kilanske invented the Genesis and the 68000, he gave it Blast Processing which to this day has not yet been matched in the computer and/or gaming world.  Unfortunately Tom Kilanske did not invent the 68010.  That was invented by some Chinese guy and Tom did not let him use Blast Processing.

GZeus

Quote
Quote(since legally, i can't copy and paste the email)
This strikes me as a very odd thing to say.  Why do you say it?
My guess is he's treating an agreement they made through email as an oral contract.

RobIvy64

December 14, 2006, 10:59:41 PM #27 Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 01:15:44 AM by RobIvy64
QuoteObviously the reason that the 68010 doesn't work with all Genesis games is because the 68010 doesn't have Blast Processing.  Duh.  Back when Tom Kilanske invented the Genesis and the 68000, he gave it Blast Processing which to this day has not yet been matched in the computer and/or gaming world.  Unfortunately Tom Kilanske did not invent the 68010.  That was invented by some Chinese guy and Tom did not let him use Blast Processing.
Um... not hardly. :)

The 68010 is a 68000 with added/modified instrustions.

The 68K does not create "Blast Processing", this would be the VDP.

My old Pontiac Grand Prix's ECU had a 68K as it's controller... I guess my car had "Blast Processing" Woo!
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RobIvy64

December 14, 2006, 11:04:05 PM #28 Last Edit: December 14, 2006, 11:04:52 PM by RobIvy64
Quote
QuoteI've only seen those on the earliest of Genesis revisions, but on my first machine I did, yes.

My current rig didn't have it.
ok..

well, i contacted "Agilent Technologies", about the CPU, to get some information..  ill repeat whatever they say (since legally, i can't copy and paste the email)
I doubt they would send you any information on it. If it would be illegal for you to post it, then it would be illegal for them to send it to you...unless you work for them. :ph34r:  
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blackevilweredragon

i said it would be illegal, cause those emails always say "You may NOT copy and paste any contents of this email, without written consent."

RobIvy64

I'll contact them too and see what the scoop is on that CPU. That way I can read what they say directly (if they respond). It's definitely not a 68010.
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blackevilweredragon

QuoteI'll contact them too and see what the scoop is on that CPU. That way I can read what they say directly (if they respond). It's definitely not a 68010.
ok, good..  you got the picture, so you got the number..  (the top numbers with the dash, the bottom ones are the serial number)

blackevilweredragon

got an email back from Agilent..  they said it's an "MC68000L8"..  ok, so what's the difference between the MC68000L8, and the MC68000P8 then?  cause the L8 works faster...

here's the chart they gave me, too..


RobIvy64

It probably seems to work faster because you thought it was a 68010. The "L" designation signifies the packaging, in your case, ceramic with a gold core cover.

The "P" means it is housed in a plastic package.
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blackevilweredragon

QuoteIt probably seems to work faster because you thought it was a 68010. The "L" designation signifies the packaging, in your case, ceramic with a gold core cover.

The "P" means it is housed in a plastic package.
well it does work faster, cause i don't get slow down on the sonic 2 split screen...

(and SegaMac won't boot with it)

maybe there's a slight revision on this chip...

RobIvy64

The documentation you posted clearly states it as a plain ol' NMOS 68000... i'm just going by what you just showed me.

You have a stock Genesis CPU installed, with a ceramic package instead of plastic.
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blackevilweredragon

k..  well, im gonna look over it..  there's something different going on about it, which now im curious..

(could it be that this one IS slightly newer though?  remember the signetics 68000 was the same, in the early genesis, but sucked, it was even slower than the regular 68000..  maybe there's something different about it, maybe a very small modification was made, for the speed to be improved, but never documented---and that's happened with motorola in the past...

as for sega mac not booting, im gonna examine the CPU, because if you look at the video, when it said "Sync Complete", I rushed to the screen, because it didn't go that far before..  so it's an intermittent problem.. ---maybe something is lose, but enough to play games with---)

RobIvy64

Signetics took the Motorola core and butchered it, so thats why they are inefficient.

Being newer wouldn't matter, if that were the case, the Genesis model 2's would be far superior in performance considering they were manufactured until ~1996.

I don't mean this rude, but the performance increase is probably your imagination. It's literally a standard 68000.
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blackevilweredragon

it could probably very well be my imagination..  how i remember it:

Genesis 68000:  Slows down to 30pfs when you lose rings
My 68000:  Remains 60fps when i lose rings

(it may be im not losing ENOUGH rings though, which explains it...)

oh, and I just looked at the Genesis board, one of the pins had a cold solder joint LOL

I fixed that, tried booting SegaMac, and it's booting up right now..  so it was something lose..  (i wonder why it didn't affect games though, just luck maybe)

RobIvy64

It doesn't always slowdown, just depends on what else is going on at the same time.
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