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Has anyone managed to play Wanderers from Ys on an X68000 via illegitimate means?

I ask because when I try I run into a strange issue that sort of has the whiff of hidden copy protection.

There are no versions of any of the Ys games on the HDD images except for the Baller image, which is no good because it creates virtual drives from the floppy images, which means you lose your saves when you turn off your machine.

So I just write the images to floppies and play it that way, but when you get to the bottom of the first cave your path is blocked. This does not happen in any other version of this game for other platforms.

Nobody loves Ys, and its awkward combat? Come on guys, there is more to the X68000 than shooters. There are too few action RPG's, we need to get to the bottom of this Ys mystery, and include both Wanderers from Ys and the first Ys for the X68000 fully working on the next HDD image.

Actually I think I just cracked this mystery. It seems as if there are bad dumps of Ys floating around the filthy romz sharing sites. If you use the dumps that come in dim format the cave is open, but they are sealed off in the xdf version of data disk 1.

Still could be nice with a HDD install of this game, though I doubt that it would be trivial since the game seems to be using its own disk format.

Thanks for figuring it out kamiboy!

Falcom was pretty devious with stuff like this.

There's a similar problem with Legend of Heroes on the PC-9801. Many of the disk images on the net are not fully cracked, and the game freezes as soon as you try to cast a spell.
There's another game (Ys 2 maybe?) where you get stuck in jail, and if your disk is pirated, Dogi never comes to break you out! You're stuck in jail forever because you're a filthy pirate. Ha ha, Falcom.

Ha ha ha ha ha! Now that is a great sense of humour, filthy pirates belong in jail, the message is clear as day.

I made an HDD installation of both YS1 and YS2, theyare  included in my past released MiniV2 HDD image but I don't know if they are the games you are looking for.Try yourself and let us know.

http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5821.msg39986;topicseen#msg39986

Cheezus on a cracker, there are so many hdd images floating around that I am going cross eyed. I'll have to check that mini v2 image out then.

The strange thing about Ys for the X68000 is that there seems to be several versions of the first game. One is clearly custom made for the X68000, and is graphically a bit odd, albeit in a charming way. The other looks so much like shit that I am certain it is somehow either an emulation or a straight port of an 8bit PC version, likely the PC88 or MSX.

Though, the one I want a proper HDD install of most is Ys III: Wanderers from Ys.

Official Ys 1 for X68000 was made by Dempa/Micomsoft under license from Falcom.  While Ys 3 was made and sold directly by Falcom.

Ys 2 was never officially made for X68.
The ports Caius linked are doujin works, 100% clones from the PC88, they run in 24khz.

Thought as much, they had that unmistakable 8bit PC jank. The Dempa port is really funky with all redone graphics, which is more than can be said about the somewhat lazy port that Falcom did of III. The actual gameplay takes place in a tiny window. No doubt an artefact of the original version having to run on inferior hardware, but they could certainly have done a lot better for the x68000 port if they had bothered to spend the resources to redraw assets, which they clearly didn't.

Well, at least the soundtrack is absolutely fantastic.

Looks like I am yet to get to the bottom of the Ys mystery. I've played as far as the fire dungeon, where you are supposed to fight a fire serpent, but have hit yet another obstacle. Indeed, sirs, this too reeks of copy protection. Before there was a wall where there should have been none, and now we have a boss that has gone missing. You enter the boss lair, the boss music plays, but no boss.

Well played Falcom, well played.

I've also noticed that you seem to gain level a lot slower than on, say, the SNES port, so the game is a lot more grindy. Not sure whether this is also some copy protection shenanigans or Falcom just chose to crank things up to 11 on the X68000 port.

Now, granted, I am still on the xdf version of disk 1, so that might be the issue. But the trouble is that the savegame is on the first disk, so if I write the dim version to disk 1 I lose all progress and it would take hours to reach that dungeon again to confirm whether the boss shows up. Since the Ys disks are not proper Human68k disks with files I cannot even copy the save files over and back them up.

Looks like the only way to play Wanderers from Ys is via original disks, and even them I am screwed since I have a Compact.

I have to imagine that Japanese players cracked all security features on this baby a long time ago though...

Kamiboy, I was reading through your progress with this and as I am new to the X68000 scene and just got my XVI fully working in the last month or so, I was finally able to start playing some Dempa Ys I and Ys III action since I own the originals, but as you said, it's kind of a shame when you have to use real disks since they will eventually die out.

One fix might be to try and get either an HxC or Gotek Flashed with HxC firmware that is connected to the X68000 machine with whatever tricks that tell the system to soft eject disks in place. I don't fully understand it... yet, but that may be an option.

The other thing that I wanted to get some clarification of as a X68000 newbie is how exactly the program for loading disks into memory works provided you have enough ram. I have about 10 MB of RAM in my XVI, so that shouldn't be a problem provided if my system sees it or not (I told it in Switch.X, but I don't know if the machine actually sees it because I'm not sure how to test it exactly). The reason is that I wonder how well it works in comparison to the ERCACHE program that is typically done to do the same type of thing for PC-98 machines. With ERCACHE, I was able to find a way to keep the virtual saves to the disk without issue. I'd have to go back in and relearn the process I did for a bit, but I had it working for Ys I, Ys II, Ys III, Fray in Magical Adventure, and AIZA: New Generation. The main idea was that when you loaded the game disks into memory and then saved to a userdisk, that userdisk would then be created as a temporary file on the HDD if I recall correctly. If I reset the PC-98 without powering it off, I could then go into the DOS file manager and run a script that would copy the temporary userdisk file into an actual file on the harddrive that would be saved permanently as a new disk with a name that I didn't define myself. I could then edit the launch script which calls ERCACHE to load that new disk and it's file name into memory which would make the job much easier.

So in a nutshell, whenever I wanted to play Ys, I'd load it up in Ercache, play the game, Save the game. Soft-Reset the PC-98, go to the DOS filemanager, run a script that copies the temporary save disk in memory into a new disk file on the hdd, and then simply move that new disk file to the Ys directory, replacing the old userdisk file and my save game would be right there ready for me the next time I wanted to play it.

If you are curious to see how I've got it setup and know your way around a PC-98, I can link you to a version of the YADHI image that has these games ready to go with a set of instructions that begins as soon as you launch the game. I wonder if the same practice for this could be applied to X68000 games that only work off of disks and not the HDD?

Thanks for reading!

Edit: Kamiboy, Also, recently I came across your Floppy Disk ReAnimator program and just the other day the first 5.25 drive in my X68 Expert seems to have stopped reading disks. I was reading the readme file for your program and it seems it was created for 3.5 X68 Compact drives. Could I write this program to a 5.25 floppy and try it on my Expert, or is it designed to only work with the Compact model 3.5 drives?

-Thomas

I actually bought a copy of Ys III which is in its way to me. Playing around with HxC won't do much if, as I suspect, the problem is due to copy protection. I can't help you with the disk loaders either since I have no experience with them, I just wrote the Ys III images to actual 3.5" floppies and tried to play it that way.

As for the old ReAnimator, I have never tested it on a 5.25" drive machine, but it should work. From a software point of view the drives are used the same way.

I have no experience with any of this, nor the hardware.
But I believe the HxC supports Kyroflux Stream files now, if that truly works,
then any protection should be correctly emulated as well.

You'd need access to a kryo image of the game then. Not sure whether those are easily available.

A friend at my computer club that I regularly meet with owns a Kyroflux, so perhaps I could get him to dump the games if that is the case.

-Thomas

Over the weekend, I did an exhibit here in Atlanta of MSX, PC-98 and X68000 machines (might post pics later if there is interest) at the Vintage Computer Festival Southeast. A fellow AHCS (Atlanta Historical Computer Society) member brought his Kyroflux to the event and I was able to make raw stream dumps of Ys, Ys III, Lagoon and Xak. I really have no way of checking of the dumps are good, but I am more than happy to upload and share these with someone else that knows what they are doing more than I. When we looked at Disk A of Ys more closely, we could definitely some weird ass copy protection on Ys for X68000. There are sectors that seem to be misaligned, and some sectors that start with 256 bytes per track instead of 1024 bytes.

My hope is that someone who has a working HxC or Gotek running HxC firmware might be able to find a way to test these files and get them running. If any of these disk work, that will prove to me that getting a Kyrofllux would be a solid investment for preserving disk only games in the future whether it be for X68000 or other platforms.

The one thing that I really like about how Kyroflux dumps the raw files is that it takes 84 tracks of data and separates them in files. You can then look at each individual track and see if there is weird noise or data that looks screwy. From that point you could try to dump only the bad dumped tracks again if you wanted, or for example someone who has the same version of the software were also to dump it, you could compare track data and possibly replace any that were faulty on any particular dump.

-Thomas

Here's a kryoflux dump of the first Ys game, i think.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10VlGal8V2gws2YWyGMVvzLKFVSl9MoT8/view?usp=sharing

Will do wanderers from ys when i get it.

Thanks famiac,

I tried the xdf images in the archive, however I can't seem to buy any weapons in the shop.

Is this copy protection? Do I need an actual kryoflux to write the image?

Update: found another dump that works fine :-)

Look forward to the Wanderers dump!

Quote from: famiac on February 19, 2020, 04:16:37 PMHere's a kryoflux dump of the first Ys game, i think.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10VlGal8V2gws2YWyGMVvzLKFVSl9MoT8/view?usp=sharing

Will do wanderers from ys when i get it.

https://i.ibb.co/C1ZShZp/Disk-A-Ys-Weak-Sector.png

Hi Guys,

You see the sector in Red on Disk A of this kryoflux dump converted to DSK ? It shows what we call a weak sector.

This sector can't be copied by the sharp. You need a custom card like the KF board for that.

Basically, the game performs multiple readings on this sector, and the result must differs each time, other wise it's see as a copy !

@dlfrsilver

If someone could dump the game with the FDX68 I'm sure that would work. You can also play the dumped game on XM6 TypeG emulator as this supports the FDX format.

I eagerly waiting for someone to share an FDX dump of Wanderers as the copy protection stops the Fire Dragon showing up so you are unable to progress any further.

The copy protection is on the Data disks I think.

Quote from: X-Col on March 24, 2020, 10:18:56 AM@dlfrsilver

If someone could dump the game with the FDX68 I'm sure that would work. You can also play the dumped game on XM6 TypeG emulator as this supports the FDX format.

I eagerly waiting for someone to share an FDX dump of Wanderers as the copy protection stops the Fire Dragon showing up so you are unable to progress any further.

The copy protection is on the Data disks I think.

I can check the dump is someone uploads it somewhere.

Another plea for an FDX68 dump guys.

I did buy this game but the disks were bad unfortunately. I could write new disks is someone would kindly dump the game.

Alternatively, is there another way to make Gilan appear on the current dumps?

The Ys 1 disks i dumped matched the checksums in the Jouyou x68k database. This is the script i used in dumping:

dtc -p -fdumps/X68K/(game)/(side)_ -i -v360 -z3 -n8 -i4 -l8 -t20 | tee (side).log
i use this command to create the xdfs:
dtc -m1 -fdumps/X68K/(game)/(side)_ -i -f(game_side).xdf -oe76 -v360 -z3 -n8 -i4 -l8
if someone knows a more powerful dumping script for kryoflux, please share it here.

I was telling Artemio on twitter that I was getting "*N" errors for tracks 0.1-5.1 on the Ys disks, but he was not particularly helpful.

here are the raw dumps of Ys3. See if they are of some use.

@famiac

from memory I recall that the first 5 tracks of the Wanderers disks were the copy protection. So the errors you experienced would be normal.

I don't have access to a Kryoflux (only FDX68) and these RAW images aren't useable on a X68000 emulator either. But I'd bet that these images would probably work when written back to floppy.

wish i still had the disks to dump with fdx68. unfortunately i declared victory prematurely and sold them.

@famiac

LOL no worries, I'm sure some kind soul will dump it one day!

I know there are owners of this game out there who also have an FDX68, they just need to pull their finger out and get it dumped ;-)

In the meantime I'm playing the Mega Drive Version, it's very good :-)

Funny story. Originally when I discovered that X68000 copy protection and made this thread I also decided to just play the Mega Drive version.

Ironically it turned out that version had some odd incompatibility with my Mega Ever Drive cart, so I couldn't play that version either.

Had to actually buy the X68000 version on floppy in the end.

@kamiboy

I bought one of them Chinese multi carts (218-1), it has Wanderers on it.

Cost me £19.99, best value you'll ever get from a £20 note!

Although not as good as the X68000 version, it's still great. Music is really nice too :-)

I have just created a set of D88 images using famiac's Kryoflux streams.

They boot fine using XM6-TypeG, they seem to have retained the copy protection too. :-)

SUCCESS!!

I have defeated Gilan on both XM6-TypeG emulator (D88 images) and real machine (FDX images)!

Here is a link to all the images I created:
(see updated link below)

Quote from: X-Col on November 30, 2020, 03:30:37 AMSUCCESS!!

I have defeated Gilan on both XM6-TypeG emulator (D88 images) and real machine (FDX images)!

Here is a link to all the images I created (HFE, D88 & FDX):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Y0d8-n_55CwLQAlRxXj5ZhrorMd_1dCg/view?usp=sharing

Note: I have only tested until Gilan (the fire dragon), HFE files are untested.
Discard any previous images I shared as they may be problematic.

Very Nice! Thank you!

Quote from: hyrulebr on December 02, 2020, 06:32:16 AMVery Nice! Thank you!

You are very welcome, I'm at the final boss but can't defeat him!
Played through entirely on my Compact using FDX68, so the images work fine.

One thing I found is that, should you be playing Data disk 2 and you leave the village, the map screen is blank and you need to reboot. I just made sure I saved the game before leaving the village and then booted the game with Data disk 1. The Map then appears fine :-)

Update: issue RESOLVED. 100% working dump posted below :-)

Quote from: X-Col on December 02, 2020, 11:07:54 AM

Quote from: hyrulebr on December 02, 2020, 06:32:16 AMVery Nice! Thank you!

You are very welcome, I'm at the final boss but can't defeat him!
Played through entirely on my Compact using FDX68, so the images work fine.

One thing I found is that, should you be playing Data disk 2 and you leave the village, the map screen is blank and you need to reboot. I just made sure I saved the game before leaving the village and then booted the game with Data disk 1. The Map then appears fine :-)

This is the protection that has failed

I have bought YS3 for X68000, i will make a proper dump, and also try to make a set of IPF if possible.

I will come back posting here.

Hey @X-Col! As a huge Ys fan, this is great news! I own Wanderers From Ys, but I don't play it much due to the age and fragility of the disks. I saw you posted FDX files, can you repost your D88 images? I just received an FDX68, but I don't have a cable - any suggestions on where to get one made for my OG X68000? Thanks for keeping at this for so long!

@SS4Rob

If you plan on using the images in an emulator, XM6 TypeG v3.32 can use FDX images.
https://nfggames.com/X68000/index.php/Emulators/

Regarding connection to your X68000, I fitted the FDD-Drive Swapper. It's great:
https://www.michaels-home.com/x68000%e3%82%b7%e3%83%aa%e3%83%bc%e3%82%ba%e7%94%a8fdd-drive-swapper/

Alternatively, you can make your own cable. See here: https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:adding_an_fdx68_to_x68000

Here is the 'Final' set of disks made using the kryoflux dumps posted by famiac (100% working)
https://nfggames.com/X68000/index.php/Games/
Name: Wanderers from Ys FDX (final release)

Please discard any previous images as they may be problematic (any image dated prior to 22/03/21).

I have included a user disk in this zip ('Easy' mode) for use with XM6 TypeG. Just pop 'User' in drive 0, and 'Data1' in drive 1.

If you want to play 'Normal' or 'Hard' mode, just overwrite it by generating a new user disk (System disk in drive 0, Data1 in drive 1, then press F10 at bootup).

If you write them to disk, just generate your own 'User Disk' :-)

Enjoy, and thanks again to famiac for generously posting the images :-)

that's really awesome. what modifications did you make to the dump? did you use the Ys III disk you bought?

Quote from: famiac on May 20, 2021, 03:14:34 PMthat's really awesome. what modifications did you make to the dump? did you use the Ys III disk you bought?

I returned my disks as they were knackered (wish I hadn't now as I could have just written new ones!). These images were created using your Kryoflux dumps, no modifications were made to them.

First, I converted the dumps to HFEv3 using the HxC floppy emulator software. I updated my Gotec with the latest FlashFloppy firmware and connected it to the FDX68.

Then loaded up the HFEv3 files to the Gotec and created new FDX images using the latest (at the time) FDX68 software.

I wrote the images back to disk and created a 'User' floppy using the F10 method. Played through the game to completion with Zero issues :-)

I have since played through the game using the image files (plus the 'User' disk created using XM6_TypeG emulator) directly with the FDX68. Again, no issues :-)

So, again, thank you so much for posting the images. We can all now enjoy this fantastic game!!

Hi,

This is great news!  Is there a way to use these images on an actual Expert if I don't have the fdx68?

Thanks!