Author Topic: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000  (Read 3237 times)

Offline TD-Linux

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 22
midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« on: January 22, 2019, 04:45:55 PM »
midiori is a new MIDI card for the Sharp X68000. It uses the same chip as the official Sharp MIDI card (CZ-6BM1), and so is compatible with all games that also support that MIDI card.

It supports MIDI In/Out/Thru, via either full size MIDI connectors (which block the neighboring slot), or 3.5mm TRS MIDI connectors (adapters are widely available). It also features selectable IRQ and port, so you can install two! The tape interface from the CZ-6BM1 has been dropped, as no software used it.

The prototype is pictured. I plan to sell final version boards with either type of connector for ~$75+shipping in a few weeks.

The design is open source and available at: https://github.com/tdaede/midiori
You can build one yourself, but you'll need to find a source for the YM3802-X.

Offline trixster

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 16
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2019, 07:02:36 PM »
This looks excellent. I’m in the market for a midi board and this looks ideal. Great project!

Offline spud

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2019, 07:16:09 PM »
That's nice indeed, count me in as interested party as well!

Offline amigo-mexicano

  • BigMember
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • Retro-Computer Nerd
    • Video Game Dose
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2019, 01:02:36 AM »
Also interested, amazing job!
From Mexico City... Amigo-Mexicano!
videogamedose.com || video-juegos.com

Offline spud

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2019, 08:51:26 PM »
Mmm, is that $75 for a fully built board that is working out of the box, or just for the PCB only? If the later I need some help building the thing :)

And would the bigger MIDI connectors also conflict with a 4MB memory board, or only with other boards that have connectors on the back as well?

Offline TD-Linux

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2019, 05:51:40 AM »
That's for a fully working card. I'm happy to do bare PCB or some other combination if desired, though.

Unfortunately even with the shortest DIN connectors I could find, it just barely interferes with the second card. It might be possible to fit by cutting or grinding the connector down, I suppose. Other options included making the board stick out with a "chin", and adding a sub-board to lower the connectors a bit, but it doesn't feel like either is worth the complexity.

P.S. I haven't ordered the v1.1 batch yet so any last minute suggestions are welcome.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2019, 07:11:19 AM by TD-Linux »

Offline trixster

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 16
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2019, 07:25:24 AM »
Take my money :)

Offline rkrenicki

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 11
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2019, 08:19:38 AM »
@TD-Linux  I was working on this exact same project, but as a Through-hole design.  I finished laying out the schematic in KiCAD a week or so ago, and I was just about to start on the PCB design.

Since you have done the "hard part" of sizing the PCB and the edge connector, I may just modify your design to through hole instead of re-inventing the wheel.

Out of curiosity, what are all of the wires on your original photo?  I assume that they are various bodges, but are those fixes already accounted for in your design on github?

Offline mqarkcambie

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 5
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2019, 07:23:48 PM »
Does anyone have a link for where to purchase the MIDI IC? I had a search and didn't find them.

Thanks,
Mark.

Offline skpstmgs

  • BigMember
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2019, 08:23:59 PM »
I typed YM3802-X into ebay and it looks like there is one person selling them for around $25 USD from China. I don't know if it's guaranteed to work and the price seems high but it's something...

Offline mqarkcambie

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 5
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2019, 10:53:21 PM »
Thanks, I had been using ebay.co.uk with world search selected. I wasn't seeing anything.

If I use ebay.com I get your hit!

Offline rkrenicki

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 11
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2019, 02:54:16 AM »
I typed YM3802-X into ebay and it looks like there is one person selling them for around $25 USD from China. I don't know if it's guaranteed to work and the price seems high but it's something...

Unfortunately, that sounds about right.   I ordered a couple of Alibaba a few months ago, and they worked out to about $21 shipped each for 3 of them.  Tack on some eBay fees, and $25 seems about the same.  That was the cheapest source I could find at the time.

Offline TD-Linux

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2019, 06:11:26 PM »
Out of curiosity, what are all of the wires on your original photo?  I assume that they are various bodges, but are those fixes already accounted for in your design on github?

I just pushed the fixed version today, pull it again (it'll be 1.1 of the board).

To make a through hole version you should just be able to change all the chip packages and re-layout the board. I used smt packages because they are faster for me to assemble.

Unfortunately, that sounds about right.   I ordered a couple of Alibaba a few months ago, and they worked out to about $21 shipped each for 3 of them.  Tack on some eBay fees, and $25 seems about the same.  That was the cheapest source I could find at the time.

That is about what they cost me as well. For a future version I'd like to copy the functionality of the chip onto a FPGA. I had to make at least one original chip board though, as I don't have any real MIDI board for reference :)

Offline rkrenicki

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 11
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2019, 10:18:56 AM »
I finished up going through the schematics connection-by-connection, and I found the missing data lines, as well as the changes made replacing the 74S133 and 74S260. 

I underestimated the size difference between the SOP and DIP parts, the layout is much less.. clean.. for sure.

Offline TD-Linux

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2019, 02:48:45 PM »
I finished up going through the schematics connection-by-connection, and I found the missing data lines, as well as the changes made replacing the 74S133 and 74S260. 

Power was also connected for U3 (by placing the subpart) and the physical dimensions of the card were changed slightly (top and bottom board outlines moved down 1mm, edge connector sits 1mm less deep, edge connector footprint moved down 0.5mm). Silkscreen labels for midi connections were also corrected.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 03:03:57 PM by TD-Linux »

Offline TD-Linux

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2019, 01:35:53 PM »
OK, I got 10 cards in. If you are interested, please PM me what you'd like and I'll send you an invoice (paypal or bitcoin ok). Cost is:

midiori v1.1 with TRS jacks - $75
midiori v1.1 with DIN jacks (blocks neighboring slot!) - $75
TRS to female DIN adapter - $8 ea
US shipping - $7
Rest of world shipping - $12

All boards are assembled and include a socketed YM3802-X chip. Most users will only need one adapter, the IN and THRU ports are mostly useful if you want to do sequencing on your x68k. The adapters are standard MIDI TRS adapters (Korg/Akai type).

I will include 3d printed ejection ears and a back plate.

EDIT: as of 2019-03-15 I got more cards... and am sold out again!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 08:16:47 AM by TD-Linux »

Offline spud

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2019, 01:30:22 AM »
Cool, PM sent!

Now i need to hunt down a sound module :)

Offline thegirlg33k

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 3
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2019, 01:39:34 AM »
Cool, PM sent!

Now i need to hunt down a sound module :)

Sent a PM as well.

As to a sound module, if you're in the US check out reverb.com from time to time. That's where I snagged my MT-32 for a good price.

Offline trixster

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 16
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #18 on: February 21, 2019, 03:26:29 AM »
Amazing! PM on the way

Offline spud

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2019, 05:40:55 AM »
I'd like some advise on these sound modules.

The MT32 is pretty rare and pricey, but according to the FAQ has better sound.
The SC55 which I see a lot in pictures, is cheaper and easier to find, but has "emulated" sound. How "bad" is that? Is it still significantly better than the native sound of the X68000?

I also possibly want to use the sound module with my Amigas (ScummVM) and maybe old PC.

Offline TD-Linux

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2019, 06:56:35 AM »
The SC-55 is newer and uses wavetable synthesis (recordings stored in a ROM), so it has better sound. It also uses the General Midi instrument set. The MT-32 uses "LA synthesis" which uses a bunch of programmable parameters to make a sound. It has a unique default instrument set.

Games designed for MT-32 will sound wrong on the SC-55 unless you start it in compatibility mode, which loads a bunch of recordings of a real MT-32 to emulate its instrument set. If a game used custom parameters though, it still won't sound correct. The most prominent examples of this are LucasArts games.

Games designed for SC-55 will sound wrong on MT-32. There's a patch you can load into the MT-32 to make it more General Midi-ish, which helps.

Most of the games I've tried are SC-55 only or support both, so I'd recommend the SC-55. Many also use the native x68k sound at the same time, so you'll want to route the x68k line out into the SC-55's built in mixer.

Offline sir_beaker

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 12
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2019, 07:00:28 AM »
I am also interesting in one if you have any left  :) Sending PM

Offline spud

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2019, 07:01:54 AM »
Thanks for the info TD-linux.

Guess if I was quick enough to show interest in a board I'll first try with this: https://github.com/dwhinham/mt32-pi
If Munt sounds fine, I can hunt down an SC55 and keep the Pi as MT/CM32.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2019, 07:26:56 AM by spud »

Offline Bjoern

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 3
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2019, 03:40:57 PM »
Thanks man

Hope I was fast enough

PN sent

Offline Max

  • MassiveMember
  • ****
  • Posts: 141
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #24 on: February 27, 2019, 04:42:50 AM »
pm sent let me know if you got it.....
tks

Offline spud

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2019, 08:42:50 AM »
Any idea when you expect to be able to ship the cards TD-Linux?

Offline TD-Linux

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2019, 09:12:33 AM »
I've shipped all the DIN ones, I've just started shipping the TRS ones because I was waiting on more TRS to DIN adapters.

Offline amigo-mexicano

  • BigMember
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • Retro-Computer Nerd
    • Video Game Dose
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2019, 05:26:44 PM »
Damn I was too slow... have any cards left?
From Mexico City... Amigo-Mexicano!
videogamedose.com || video-juegos.com

Offline TD-Linux

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2019, 06:21:55 PM »
Not at the moment, but I've already ordered more. I'll shoot you a PM when they are ready.

Offline spud

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2019, 06:52:46 PM »
Awesome TD-Linux, looking forward to it!

Offline lukester

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 5
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2019, 03:24:43 PM »
PM Sent!!   :)

Offline spud

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2019, 02:36:55 AM »
Yay, the card arrived today! Looks really good. Thanks so very much @TD-Linux! Unfortunately I only have time next week earliest and still need a USB to midi adapter or need to build in my old terratec DMX6fire in my PC to first try this with the MT32 emulator on my PC :)

Offline trixster

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 16
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2019, 06:54:40 AM »
Mine has arrived too! I will try it on Monday morning with my MT32 :)

Offline TD-Linux

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2019, 05:37:24 PM »
I've run my supplier out of YM3802-X's. I'm looking for more, but haven't found a good source in quantity yet. I'm also working on the midiori v2.0, which will be FPGA based and not need the chip at all, in case I can't get more chips at reasonable prices.

Offline trixster

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 16
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #34 on: March 19, 2019, 12:42:33 AM »
The midiori has been installed and works great! Thanks TD-Linux!

When the midi card is operating does the line-out of the 68k still work for sound effects, like the internal speaker does?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2019, 03:07:21 AM by trixster »

Offline TD-Linux

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #35 on: March 19, 2019, 06:29:32 AM »
Yes. Some games use both FM and MIDI at the same time. If you have a SC-55 or similar with an internal mixer, you can run the line-out of your X68000 to the line-in of the SC-55 and hear both through headphones/speakers plugged in to the SC-55.

Offline amigo-mexicano

  • BigMember
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • Retro-Computer Nerd
    • Video Game Dose
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2019, 09:58:04 AM »
Any news on the new batch?
From Mexico City... Amigo-Mexicano!
videogamedose.com || video-juegos.com

Offline Bjoern

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 3
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2019, 01:34:02 AM »
Hello,

i got mine today.. Thank you very much.. BUT the Card won`t fit into the Slot of my Expert.. :/ I can push as hard as i want.. the card does not slip into the connection in the X68000 .. :/


Offline TD-Linux

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 22
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2019, 04:40:31 AM »
Hello,

i got mine today.. Thank you very much.. BUT the Card won`t fit into the Slot of my Expert.. :/ I can push as hard as i want.. the card does not slip into the connection in the X68000 .. :/

Can you take a picture inside the expansion bay? You may need to wiggle it up and down a bit. Also keep in mind that the slots are *very* stiff if they haven't been used before.

Offline spud

  • SmallMember
  • **
  • Posts: 39
Re: midiori - MIDI card for the X68000
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2019, 10:11:18 AM »
Installed my card today (needed some force, and used the supplied cover to push the card in). Tried it only with Ghouls & Ghosts and Munt (MT 32 / CM 32 emulator) on my PC, but yes it works and it's really awesome!!!

Next step is try the SC55 emulator :)