my first X68k coming in the mail! but I need more RAM

[Segasonicfan]

So I just bought this:
http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showthread.php?251968-FS-X68000-PRO-HD-*Needs-TLC*&highlight=x68000

and am excited to get what I think is a pretty good deal.  I'm very experienced with technical repair so I think the PSU repair will go smooth.  If anyone knows a guide specifically for the PRO model that would help though.

HOWEVER, I just realized that Cotton (the game I already own and *really* want to play) requires 2MB of RAM x_X  thinking I should start my search early, does anyone know how I can upgrade it?  Someone on one thread said you can't with an I/O board?

Also, Im looking into making the DIY keyboard adapter...once I repair the beast.  Does anyone know where there are instructions for regreasing and giving TLC to the floppy drives too?  I heard this is important. 
So much to learn......HEART ON FIRE!

-Segasonicfan

[caius]

Hi, your upcoming X68000 PRO-HD has already 2MB in total, the CZ-6BE1A you can see in a picture is a 1MB RAM expansion.
About PSU repair, if the fuse is blown I guess there is some problem with primary part.I'd check the mosfet, bridge rectifier and diodes for first.Anyway this the schematics of the PRO PSU:

http://nfggames.com/x68000/Schematics/PSU/X68000_PRO_PSU_Schematics.pdf

[Segasonicfan]

Ah, I see it in there!!
you sir, made my day.

great schematics.  I figure its one of the FETS...though I wonder what would cause it to break AFTER caps are replaced.  That leads me to believe there are bad caps on the main board.

-Segasonicfan

[caius]

great schematics.  I figure its one of the FETS...though I wonder what would cause it to break AFTER caps are replaced.  That leads me to believe there are bad caps on the main board.

-Segasonicfan

I had a similar issue on my CompactXVI PSU and it was due a bad zener diode.

[H68k]

You might want to hunt for a ram expansion board at some point in the near future as well. while 2MB of ram is the bare miniscle for games, 4MB is really the ideal amount if your really going to play games on it. there's a whole variety of them made ether by Sharp or third party manufactures, that use the internal ram expansion header on the motherboard for your type of model or as card edge boards that slot into the expansion bay.


For adaptors see: 
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:don_t_have_a_keyboard

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:don_t_have_a_mouse

(you will NEED a ROM programmer to make these.. I think you'll get away with a generic china man made USB one, but I'm not sure)


See Eidis's floppy disk drive guide here, it will show you how to dismantle them:

http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:advanced_floppy_driver_repair

(take your time dismantling them... they are easy to break if your impatient or don't know what your doing)



And if your feeling brave enough.. You may also want to attempt fitting a 5Mhz overclock mod, there's a guide out there some where on how to fit one to a PRO model. after doing so, It should bring your PRO up to the performance level of an XVI model, and make Cotton run as smooth as Silk! urm.. ok.. I'll get my coat...

[Segasonicfan]

Thanks for the advice everyone!  So much to learn with the new beast.

Here's what I was thinking I'd need for the keyboard adapter DIY project:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIC-E-Eprom-programmer-for-PIC16F84-and-24xxx-eeproms-/280601526138?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4155277f7a
I figure since this uses serial instead of USB it will be easier to work with with less chance of error.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251062410589?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
It seems to be important that the PIC be over 10mhz, according to the instructions.  the 4mhz ones are way cheaper.

How much do official keyboards usually run by themselves?  I've seen a range from $65-$200?  Are there important differences between them?

I couldnt find anything online that looks like an overclock guide for the PRO or any other model.  Do you have any info on how to do it?
and what is the main benefit of >2MB RAM?  I read somewhere that only a few games use 4MB.  What are the cheapest RAM upgrade modules?  I was looking at this one: http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:sh-6be-2_4m_-_memory_expansion_board&s[]=sh&s[]=6be  My Cotton box says 2MB on it...

-Segasonicfan

[Opethian]

get a real keyboard that way when you watch the cotton intro you get the light dance ^_^ they usually end about ¥5000-7500 on yja

[Teddy KGB]

get a real keyboard that way when you watch the cotton intro you get the light dance ^_^ they usually end about ¥5000-7500 on yja

Agreed. Sorry sonic, I already got the keyboard off of your Pro HD guy.

[Segasonicfan]

get a real keyboard that way when you watch the cotton intro you get the light dance ^_^ they usually end about ¥5000-7500 on yja

Agreed. Sorry sonic, I already got the keyboard off of your Pro HD guy.

lol, i saw.  at a good price too!

[eidis]

 Hi Segasonicfan !

You really need a Genius G840 programmer, in case if you do not have a decent one already. It supports 40pin 27C4000 EEPROMS which are used in arcade PCB'S (quite rare feature with cheap programmers), PIC, GAL and various others. It even can test RAM and TTL chips. Some time ago I did a massive research and bought it. Can say only good things about it. It will cost a lot more than the one which you found but G840 will fully pay off in a very near future. It is very frustrating to buy a programmer and later find out that some needed chip is not supported. The USB feature works very fast and  flawlessly and I can say, as an owner, only good things about it.

Stager Genius G840
http://www.stg51.com/english/productshow.asp?id=7

Stager Genius G840 Programmer Device List
http://www.stg51.com/english/downloadshow.asp?id=16

All Device Total:    6806

Genius G840
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genius-USB-G840-FLASH-BIOS-EPROM-GAL-51-AVR-PIC-MCU-Universal-Programmer-B0210-/261362998968?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cda72deb8

The X68000 PRO models have the full height floppy drives (others models with 5.25" have slim floppy drives). This is good, because they are modified TEAC models which have been upgraded with softeject. They have very strong motors and should be more robust. Just clean the hardened grease of the head guide rails, re-lubricate them with silicone oil or dry lubricant and you will be good to go.

IMHO the SH-6BE-2 is the best bang for the buck, because it is more newer model, has fewer ram chips than the PIO-6834-2 and can be more easily upgraded. Just solder the additional RAM chips and set the jumpers accordingly. You can save a few bucks by doing the upgrade. However, be warned, the ram chip legs go beneath the chip and not away from it.

SH-6BE-2/4M-1 - Memory expansion board
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:sh-6be-2_4m_-_memory_expansion_board

PIO-6834-2/4M-1 - Memory expansion board
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:pio-6834-2_4m_-_memory_expansion_board

The benefit of hawing more than 2MB ram is that you can allow yourself to launch more games straight from LHES and everything in Games3 directory should work as-well.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[Tw3ek]

get a real keyboard that way when you watch the cotton intro you get the light dance ^_^ they usually end about ¥5000-7500 on yja

Is it bad if this was a big selling point for the game for me (other than the fact that its Cotton of course!)

[H68k]

Quite fun to watch it in action on a full size keyboard... but sadly I've only got one of those silly little compact model keyboards..

on another note... I wonder if it would keep my niece entertained long enough? so I can get on with other stuff when I'm asked to babysit?

[Segasonicfan]

Thanks for the detailed response eidis!

That EEPROM programmer looks very nice, I will keep in mind for the future.  I really don't need it right not though, as I only want to program this one PIC chip and I also want to save money....68k gaming is definitely expensive and I am on a tight budget right now.  Do you think that programmer I linked would work just for this project?

The benefit of hawing more than 2MB ram is that you can allow yourself to launch more games straight from LHES and everything in Games3 directory should work as-well.

What is LHES?  and what is Games 3 directory?  I would love to know more about the benefits of >2MB RAM to see if it is worth the ~$100 for expansion.

The X68000 PRO models have the full height floppy drives (others models with 5.25" have slim floppy drives). This is good, because they are modified TEAC models which have been upgraded with softeject. They have very strong motors and should be more robust. Just clean the hardened grease of the head guide rails, re-lubricate them with silicone oil or dry lubricant and you will be good to go.

That's great info, thanks! 

Someone mentioned on one forum that some 68ks won't event start without a keyboard connected.  Let's hope this isn't the case for me.  I'd love an official one for those awesome Cotton lights but $150+ is really steep.  Hopefully I can find one in the $65-$75 range later on and just make the adapter for now.

Does anyone have info on overclocking?  That would be great to have

Can't wait for 68k gaming!!

[Opethian]

with only 2MB of ram you wont be able to launch any games that use 2HDboot (majority of whats in the games 3 directory) You could always write those games to blank disks and play them just fine. 

[H68k]

LHES is a file manger program for Human68k that saves you having to navigate and mange files via the command lines etc. I think the Games3 folder is the one on eidis disk image in witch the games require 4MB and more of ram.

Who ever told you these machines will not start up without a keyboard connected.. was talking out of there arse! if it's properly working, it should display a message on screen asking for software (if no bootable SCSI drive is connected) regardless of whatever is connected or not to the kb/mouse/joypad ports.

unfortunately yes, full size keyboards fetch there moneys worth. compact model kb's are cheaper and more common.. all of the A-Z 1-0 keys you need to operate the machine work, but they seam to have some funny business with games not recognizing there "virtual" number pad when it's toggled on. (but as you can also navigate around these games menus with a joypad.. it's not much of a problem)

eidis would also be the man to ask about overclocking mods. he posted some info he uploaded to a file hosting site some time ago.. but the link is now very dead, he may still have what you need if you fire off a private message to him.

[Segasonicfan]

LHES is a file manger program for Human68k that saves you having to navigate and mange files via the command lines etc. I think the Games3 folder is the one on eidis disk image in witch the games require 4MB and more of ram.

ahh, ok.  I don't mind the command line stuff so much but that does sound cool.  I searched around and still can't find this Games3 folder people are talking about.  Could you send me a link to the list of games that take more RAM?   I found a partial list here which is very helpful:
http://www7.ocn.ne.jp/~debiddo/mygames.htm

Who ever told you these machines will not start up without a keyboard connected.. was talking out of there arse! if it's properly working, it should display a message on screen asking for software (if no bootable SCSI drive is connected) regardless of whatever is connected or not to the kb/mouse/joypad ports.

That's a relief   I want to be able to repair my unit and run games before going keyboard hunting.

unfortunately yes, full size keyboards fetch there moneys worth. compact model kb's are cheaper and more common

Do the compact models have the LED lights?  How much cheaper are they/is this one:
http://buyee.jp/item/yahoo/auction/n128335703

eidis would also be the man to ask about overclocking mods. he posted some info he uploaded to a file hosting site some time ago.. but the link is now very dead, he may still have what you need if you fire off a private message to him.

ah ok I'll have to bug him later

Thanks for tall this great info everyone!  I'm such a n00b to the scene.

-Segasonicfan

[98pacecar]

Just as an aside on the keyboard, the adapter I have flashes the leds on my ps2 keyboard while playing Cotton. It's not the full set of lights, but still does a pretty good job.

I believe it's based on this design: http://nfggames.com/X68000/Schematics/PS2%20to%20X68000%20keyboard%20adapters/GKA-AT68%20by%20Mr.M.Sawada/GKA-AT68%20Assembly%20Instructions.pdf

[Segasonicfan]

I got my X68000 and it's running Cotton!!!  I'm elated.  No version of original cotton comes close to the X68k masterpiece.
The PSU was blown to bits, the FET and both diode bridges are fried.  There seems to be an odd factory repair of sorts too, adding an additional diode bridge.  I ordered parts to try and repair it but in the meantime I found a *perfect* tiny ATX PSU to use.

The wiki was a big help for the ATX mod.  The diagram had me a bit confused though as the color for 5vsb was red instead of orange.  Also, it does not mention that modern ATX supplies use a purple wire (instead of pink) for +5vsb, maybe a nice thing to mention.  Also, modern studio PCs have ATX PSUs for $25 that are super easy to source.

Only thing now is recapping the friggin mainboard and replacing the SRAM and MOST importantly some floppy TLC.  They make a bumping and rattling sound that is rather unpleasant.  I guess I will have a lot of testing to do with the track sensor judging from this post:
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:floppy_drive_issues

any tips for doing this work?

I'm glad it all runs though, and FYI the Antec TVator Exec (a very cheap downscan converter) does a very decent job of making this play on any display (including my 15khz RGB TV )  And this guy has a mini built in speaker and x2 1/8" audio outputs!  Such a wonderful piece of hardware.



-Segasonicfan

[Segasonicfan]

thanks for letting me know about those keyboard lights btw

Here's a video I made of the noise from the Floppies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcKg8y1fUDY&feature=youtu.be

I also like this idea a lot:
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:pc_floppy_drive
Could I just hook up any 3.5" floppy and run games off that?  Seems too good to be true... I would need a keyboard I bet to load them though.

-Segasonicfan

[eidis]

 Hi Segasonicfan !

Whatever you do, DO NOT MESS WITH THE TRACK 0 SENSOR OR THE FLOPPY DRIVE HEAD ALIGNMENT. Judging by the sounds from your video they are fine and something is grinding against the rotating metallic disc, which is at the bottom of the drive, at every revolution. Might be an uber simple fix. Please do not ruin a perfectly working floppy drive.

Here you will find more information on the external 3.5" DIY floppy.
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5388.0

It requires a driver installation to SRAM in order to boot from disks so yes, you will need a keyboard.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[Segasonicfan]

Hi Segasonicfan !

Whatever you do, DO NOT MESS WITH THE TRACK 0 SENSOR OR THE FLOPPY DRIVE HEAD ALIGNMENT. Judging by the sounds from your video they are fine and something is grinding against the rotating metallic disc, which is at the bottom of the drive, at every revolution. Might be an uber simple fix. Please do not ruin a perfectly working floppy drive.

Here you will find more information on the external 3.5" DIY floppy.
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5388.0

It requires a driver installation to SRAM in order to boot from disks so yes, you will need a keyboard.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

Thank you eidis!!  Good thing you wrote, because that was what I was going to try and do   I don't know anything about floppy drive repairs so any tips are much appreciated!  Any idea what I should look for hitting the metal plate?  It works fine aside from the noise, I played to the last level of Cotton with no hiccups.

On a side note, someone mentioned you knew about overclock mods?  I can't find any good info on the GPU overclock (it looks like CPU overclocking is a bad idea from one thread I saw).

-Segasonicfan

[eidis]

 Hi Segasonicfan !

Remove the affected floppy drive from your X68000 and try rotating the metallic disc with your hands. Carefully listen to the sound it makes and you should find the problem.

I am sorry but overclocking is a taboo. It does more harm than good so it is better not to know how to do it. These systems are already rare and there is no need to intentionally shorten their lifespan.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[Segasonicfan]

Thanks for the reply!  I am glad to know about the overclocking, I don't want to hurt my precious x68000 in any way

I'll take a look at the drives but I am worried of messing something up.  As a backup idea, do the TEAC FD-55GFR drives work as a drop in replacement as far as the wiring harness goes?  That's what the model # is of the ones in there already, but I know they are "modified" with soft eject, LEDs, etc.  I was thinking of buying a couple as my heavy-use floppy drives and keeping the originals on hand as spares.

-Segasonicfan

[eidis]

 Hi Segasonicfan !

The lack of softeject means that they can not be used as internal drives. Besides, the motherboard is different as-well.

Long time ago I tried to repair one of my ACE-HD drives whose rotating disk bearings went bad and it was behaving extremely loud. I bought a Canon MD-5501 5.25" floppy drive and noticed that it can be used as a donor. The motherboard and metal frame is different, however the heads, the rotating disk and part mounting positions looked compatible. So that is what I did, replaced just the rotating disk assembly and then started the nightmare of calibration. No matter how hard I tried I could not get it to read disks as good as factory calibrated drive (mostly because I messed with the heads earlier, later to find out that the problem was caused by bad capacitors) . Later a spare floppy drive kit was purchased from Yahoo Auctions.

The moral of the story is that it is much wiser to purchase original floppy drives from YA, replace capacitors and use them rather than spend many hours in frustration while trying to make a 2in1.

Sorry for my long rant.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[Segasonicfan]

Very informative!  I enjoyed it, not a rant at all

I took out the floppies (that was a pain, damn plastic clips) and examined them, rotated the metal disc with my hands and both of them sounded fine.  Ran both of them and examined them running (also very difficult to do...) and they look fine.  Previous seller said they always sounded like this so maybe this is just how these old drives sound?  It's not as pronounced when the cover is on.

But I won't make a 2 in 1 then, thank you for your advice.

I really don't look forward to capping the main board....that will be a LOT of work!  As will capping the floppies and changing the SRAM.  How important is it that I do all this labor soon?

Thanks again for all your valuable help.  If/when I recap I'll take detailed pics for the benefit of eveyone (since I couldn't find instructions with pics for my model).

-Segasonicfan

[eidis]

 Hi Segasonicfan !

Try taking the drives out of the drive mounting bracket, which holds them both together unseparated, and loading software from them. Try to move the affected drive while the disk is spinning and pay attention if the grinding sound at some point disappears or becomes different. Look for something that could get caught by the rotating disk assembly upon every revolution.

Recapping is a very serious matter. High quality capacitors usually last for up to 20 years if the system draws moderate load. The whole purpose of it is to supply the connected components with stable electricity and smooth out the ripples in current. The capacitors usually degrade with time and start showing early warning signs before doing something nasty. The system can start behaving unstable, floppy drives will not read disks but then after approximately 15 minutes of using the computer everything could start working fine as if there were no problems at all or the worst case scenario when one day the computer will simply not switch on.

Usually the first thing to go in X68000 is the power supply, so that is a must candidate for recapping. Floppy drives are a must too. To be completely honest, you really don't have a choice. Either recap everything or risk damaging your X68000 because of old capacitors.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[Segasonicfan]

Try taking the drives out of the drive mounting bracket, which holds them both together unseparated, and loading software from them. Try to move the affected drive while the disk is spinning and pay attention if the grinding sound at some point disappears or becomes different. Look for something that could get caught by the rotating disk assembly upon every revolution.

yep, this is what I tried.  It was *very* difficult to safely test it this way too, since the cable connector is very short and the motherboard is right below.  I loaded software and looking at the spindles- they always make the same noise whenever they spin.  I examined the top and bottom of the drive and didn't see anything that could be blocking it.  There only appears to be one small motor shaft near the front for the soft eject, so I don't know of where it would need greasing or not.  It's a shame there is no info for these online, I would love to know how to service them properly.

Lots of moving parts and switches in these old floppies waiting to go bad.  I need to get a keyboard and hook up an external 3.5".

The lack of softeject means that they can not be used as internal drives. Besides, the motherboard is different as-well.

I was thinking of keeping the front cover off and then just using manual eject.  But are you saying the CPU requires the soft eject to function with internal drives?  and the motherboard connection is different? the connector on the back visually looks identical.

Just thinking of some ways I can play lots of floppy games without wearing out these expensive drives.  I can do without the fancy features

Thanks!

-Segasonicfan

[eidis]

 Hi Segasonicfan !

It's a shame there is no info for these online, I would love to know how to service them properly.

Here is the super secret info. Clean the head guide rails with q-tips and isopropyl alcohol until no dirt is coming off. Re-lubricate them with silicone oil. Now recap the motherboard. There could be some capacitors near the rotating disk assembly as-well. You could clean and relubricate the soft-eject mechanics as-well.

I was thinking of keeping the front cover off and then just using manual eject.  But are you saying the CPU requires the soft eject to function with internal drives?  and the motherboard connection is different? the connector on the back visually looks identical.

The motherboard has the same connector, that is true, and the motherboard can look similar to one which is in PC drive counterpart but it is not. X68000 version has soft-eject signal and without it games on multiple disks will not work. There is one other signal which is required, sadly I forgot what it was. Maybe Caius can give his expertise. Your best bet is to purchase a spare set of PRO drives on Yahoo Auctions and replace the noisy drive.

Just thinking of some ways I can play lots of floppy games without wearing out these expensive drives.  I can do without the fancy features

If the only thing for which you want the floppy drives is playing games then there is a much better solution. Install a hard drive (CF card), buy an I/O 2Mb or 4Mb RAM expansion card and you will be set. Almost all floppy games can be run from hard drive with the .... cough ....... 2hdboot method. It is very dirty, unethical, but it works.

P.S. Does you PRO have the 1Mb internal RAM upgrade module installed ?

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[Segasonicfan]

Here is the super secret info. Clean the head guide rails with q-tips and isopropyl alcohol until no dirt is coming off. Re-lubricate them with silicone oil. Now recap the motherboard. There could be some capacitors near the rotating disk assembly as-well. You could clean and relubricate the soft-eject mechanics as-well.

yep, this is a good idea.  It's just not the easiest to locate/ reach the guide rails.  Pictures are worth a thousand words with these things.

The motherboard has the same connector, that is true, and the motherboard can look similar to one which is in PC drive counterpart but it is not. X68000 version has soft-eject signal and without it games on multiple disks will not work. There is one other signal which is required, sadly I forgot what it was. Maybe Caius can give his expertise. Your best bet is to purchase a spare set of PRO drives on Yahoo Auctions and replace the noisy drive.

The Soft Eject is controlled by 2 separate ribbon cables that connect to the side of the drives (to a unique board I am sure the regular FD-55s don't have.)  The other connector appears the same, so I am wondering if the pinout is identical?  Do you know for sure if it is or not?  There may be a way to take out the soft eject PCB and trick it into thinking the replacement drives are the original ones.

I also don't know if my drives are bad at all.  They *both* sound the same, so if it was a mechanical failure I would be very surprised to see it on both of them.  It's a little noisy but with the cover off you hardly hear it, so I dunno.  Getting a spare set is a good idea, though paying $100 for them and not knowing if they work (with no returns on YAJ) is a little scary.

If the only thing for which you want the floppy drives is playing games then there is a much better solution. Install a hard drive (CF card), buy an I/O 2Mb or 4Mb RAM expansion card and you will be set.

I would love to do this but for the really high cost and VERY time consuming work involved.  It looks like the SASI -> CF adapters run ~$120, then you have $100 or so for the I/O RAM (if I can find it for sale), then another $20 or so for the CF card, and then the hours of soldering that pesky 50 pin custom cable (and another $10-$20 sourcing the connectors for it).  At the end, I'm looking at close to ~$300 plus hours of labor.  add another $100+ for the keyboard I will need to install stuff.

A better option I am thinking might be to install on external SASI drive onto the back (if I can find an old working one):
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:hard_disk
or making the internal cable and doing this:
http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:internal_hard_drive

Anything I should know with that?  It looks like I should avoid parity drives.  I'll still need a keyboard of course.  The connector is "SASI" but can "SCSI" drives be used if get something like this (?):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SCA80-HPDB68-HD68wire-Female-SCSI50pin-Male-LVD-Ultra-U320cable-Adapter-/121384356480?pt=US_Drive_Cables_dapters&hash=item1c43124a80

P.S. Does you PRO have the 1Mb internal RAM upgrade module installed ?

Yep! That's how I can play Cotton   Runs great.

-Segasonicfan

[eidis]

 Hi Segasonicfan !

Unfortunately I do not own a X68000 PRO floppy drive. Maybe someone who does could do a tutorial ?

There may be a way to take out the soft eject PCB and trick it into thinking the replacement drives are the original ones.

I made a photo shoot just for you. Check it out:

Canon MD5501 v1,v2 vs X68000 slim
http://nfggames.com/x68000/Pic/Misc/Canon%20MD5501/

As you can see each PCB has different chips. MD5501 v1 (or what is left of it) looks very similar to X68000 slim drive. However, the slim drive is blessed with SHARP LZ93A18. The X68000 is also able to perform soft-eject by receiving a command from the computer so the hardware switch is only half of the story.

If not mistaken, X68000 drives use SHUGART interface. Here you can see a comparison with the ordinary PC drive.

Floppy Diskdrive pinout
http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml

They look almost identical. However, I was unable to make the X68000 drive work in a PC.

I also don't know if my drives are bad at all.  They *both* sound the same

Sometimes certain diskettes can make them behave very loudly. Could this be the case ?

At the end, I'm looking at close to ~$300 plus hours of labor.  add another $100+ for the keyboard I will need to install stuff.

That is most certainly not true. You can use SCSI2SD which will do the job, is the most cheapest and costs $78 (when converted from AUD), a 2GB SD card costs approximately $4 on eBay. The cable can be constructed dirt cheap as-well. The materials for constructing a SASI cable (including the crimping tool and shipping) will cost you $37. HDD images are heavily optimized for 2MB systems so this could be a very good start-up setup for you. The construction of the cable does not involve any soldering. Just put the cable on the connector and use the crimping tool.

Total: $119

The following thread has all the links for needed materials:

HD pins on a X68k ACE?
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5429.0

Here you will find more than enough information on how to construct the SASI cable:

Connecting and preparing a hard drive on SASI machine
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:hard_drive_on_sasi_machine

Do not bother with SASI hard drives. The biggest one has only 40MB capacity. They are very slow, extremely loud and there is no guarantee of how long they will last.

The connector is "SASI" but can "SCSI" drives be used if get something like this (?):

Nope. SASI machines can use SCSI-1 drives with 8bit bus if SxSI driver is installed in SRAM (see Connecting and preparing a hard drive on SASI machine for more details.)

More info on SCSI here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scsi

Just as with SASI drives, they are extremely loud, slow and there is no guarantee of how long they will last. I have the feeling that it will be a lot cheaper for you to go for the $119 bundle which I suggested. Old mechanical hard drives are certainly not the way to go.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[caius]

Yes, I can confirm that  FD-55GFR FDD of the PRO has a separate board and  FFC cable for the extra-signals.Some time ago I started a thread about and Lydux promised to me to figure out the pinout of this board (I wrote down also some notes about connection between the flat cable of the extra-signals board and the  Pro motherboard )

http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=4972.msg32613#msg32613

I have two FD-55GFR spare FDDs bought on Yahoo Japan some time ago, they are fully working (at least the last time I tried them) but I'm not sure if sell them or not since I have a PRO and they could be useful in the future.

[Segasonicfan]

I have two FD-55GFR spare FDDs bought on Yahoo Japan some time ago, they are fully working (at least the last time I tried them) but I'm not sure if sell them or not since I have a PRO and they could be useful in the future.

Let me know if you decide to sell them at some point:)

They look almost identical. However, I was unable to make the X68000 drive work in a PC.

Very interesting, I am so curious to know if there are differences between the x68k models and how dangerous it would be to *try* to hook one up to PC.

So I found out the TEACs in the PRO are a mix between the FD-55GFR-570 and the FD-55GFR-149-U boards.  See the attached pics for similarities.  The main I/O board appears identical, while the drive motor PCB has some slight variation.  I'd be highly surprised if the connectors were different on these or read differently on PCs. 

Yes, I can confirm that  FD-55GFR FDD of the PRO has a separate board and  FFC cable for the extra-signals.Some time ago I started a thread about and Lydux promised to me to figure out the pinout of this board (I wrote down also some notes about connection between the flat cable of the extra-signals board and the  Pro motherboard )

This would be great info to know / have!

Total: $119

Thanks for all the info on that!  I said $300 because I would also need a keyboard (~$100) and 2-4MB RAM upgrade to play some of the best games like Granada (I don't know how many others need it) which is another ~$100.  Good to know where to get the connectors and such though.

Also, judging from the sound of my friends TEAC FD-55GFR makes I think my drives are OK.  I'll know for sure when I get a new OEM drive in the mail.

-Segasonicfan

[eidis]

 Hi Segasonicfan !

Almost all games run from floppies on 2MB machines. Some of the exceptions are DuelFighter, Hatenkou, Illumination Laser and Super Street Fighter II. More than 2MB are required if you want to run all games from hard drive, however even with 2MB you will have a library of 172 games which you can play and only 17 which require more RAM.

About the floppy drive. Don't know about the TEAC, but Canon slim drive refused to work in a PC the last time I tried. The pinouts on the data connector look somewhat compatible. Pay attention to the power connector and make sure that +5 and +12 are not swapped on X68000 and PC before trying to connect the drive. Let us know how it went, if you decide to try it.

Update #1:  This should help until you get a keyboard:

HDD V4 SP1 frontend (controllable with Joystick)
http://nfggames.com/x68000/Games/V4%20Patches/HDD_V4_SP1_frontend.zip

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis