Best (easiest) way to put floppy drive images (or other files) on X68000 HDD?

[cr4zymanz0r]

Now that I have a good chunk of RAM in my X68000, I'm looking to add more games to the compact flash hard drive. I'm currently using the SuperDeadite "baller" image. As far as I know there's really only 3 ways to get additional files on the HDD:

1.) Transfer via null modem cable: While I could probably do this, it sounds like a giant pain to build the cable and get the software set up on the X68000 and a PC.
2.) Write X68000 compatible floppies using a program such as Omniflop: While I have done this for writing floppy images of games, I'm not sure how I would write specific files (such as a XDF floppy image file) as an actual file on the floppy for me to copy to the X68000 HDD once inserted. (and I'm not sure if a floppy image file itself would fit on a floppy since it's right there at the max size).
3.) Edit the compact flash card or HDD image on a PC: This definitely sounds the easiest, but I'm not sure what the best program is for it. I've also heard that this method supposedly leads to file corruption.

Which of these methods is the easiest to do that works well? Please give me more instructions too as I mainly just know the theory behind each method, but not the actual procedure (though I am aware there is a guide on the wiki for the null modem set up). If there's another method I'm unaware of I'd like to hear about that too.

(Also, what's the easiest way to see how much free space I have left on the HDD/partition?)

[SuperDeadite]

For mass transfer, CD-Rs are one of the easiest ways imo.  All you need is a SCSI CD-ROM drive.  If you are using Baller, it includes an SX-Windows compatible CD-ROM driver.  Just connect a SCSI CD-ROM, and turn it on, then boot up into SX.  It will appear in the Drive Tray.  Then you can simply drag and drop files off it.  Standard windows format data CD-Rs work perfectly.

You can also use the same driver in pure command prompt if you wish.  The driver is setup so that it will auto-scan all SCSI id's for a compatible drive.

CD-R transfer is also very safe.  I never use DiskExplorer to import files anymore.  It's full of bugs and chance of corruption is about 60% if not higher.

[cr4zymanz0r]

I'm an IT guy, but SCSI was a bit before my time. Can I just go buy virtually any working external SCSI CD-ROM off of ebay and it will plug into the back of the X68000 and work?

I've also never bothered to use SX-Windows yet since I don't have a X68000 mouse. I'm assuming not having that would make SX much more annoying to use.

[SuperDeadite]

Pretty much.  I use an old Fujitsu 4x SCSI-2 drive.  Just need the right SCSI adapter cable.  Mouse is needed for SX, but there are several drivers.  SUSIE.X can be used from the A: drive, and no mouse required.  SX support is just nice for quick drag and drop coping.

[cr4zymanz0r]

Ok, I finally have all of the hardware to make this work but I'm having issues getting SX-Windows to detect the CD-ROM. I've got an old Panasonic 4x SCSI CD-ROM, the appropriate SCSI cable to connect it to the X68000, and a X68000 mouse. I'll describe what I did in case I missed something.

I held down the help key on the keyboard when booting the X68000 so it would give me the option to boot to the 2nd partition. After doing this it started loading and i saw it load the cdrom.sys driver, then it gets to the command prompt. I typed in sx to get it to boot into SX-Windows. I went to the icon in the upper left corner, held right click, and choose the 3rd option down to bring up the list of drives. There I see the two partitions on the CF card and the two floppy drives, but no CD-ROM. If I have a disc in the CD-ROM when I turn the X68000 on it spins up and down some during booting.

There are some DIP switches for SCSI settings on the bottom of the CD-ROM (pics here: http://imgur.com/a/lXo5T). I tried changing them some, but honestly I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to SCSI. The CD-ROM can also function as a stand-alone music cd player and it functions fine as that, so the drive shouldn't be bad. Is there a step I missed or an exact way I need to have the DIP switches set?

[caius]

There are some DIP switches for SCSI settings on the bottom of the CD-ROM (pics here: http://imgur.com/a/lXo5T). I tried changing them some, but honestly I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to SCSI. The CD-ROM can also function as a stand-alone music cd player and it functions fine as that, so the drive shouldn't be bad. Is there a step I missed or an exact way I need to have the DIP switches set?

Hi , you must set the SCSI driver to the same ID you set on your Panasonic CD-ROM through DIP switch and then also set terminator DIP switch to ON since you have to terminate your SCSI chain (HD--->CD-ROM--->terminate)

[cr4zymanz0r]

Hi , you must set the SCSI driver to the same ID you set on your Panasonic CD-ROM through DIP switch and then also set terminator DIP switch to ON since you have to terminate your SCSI chain (HD--->CD-ROM--->terminate)

I'm not sure how to set the SCSI driver ID. I'm using superdeadite's baller image, and I'm not sure what SCSI ID it has set for the CD-ROM. Leaving DIP 4 (terminate) set to on, I tried all other combinations of DIP 1, 2, and 3. All off (that prompted the boot from floppy prompt, I'm assuming because it conflicted with the CF HDD SCSI ID), 1, 2, 3, 1+2, 1+3, 2+3, 1+2+3. None of the combinations made the CD-ROM show up in SX-Windows.

[SuperDeadite]

The driver in baller is not locked to a specific ID.  When it boots up, it scans all IDs for a CD-ROM, and if it finds one it will assign it ID automatically.  However it can be confused by certain devices.  It will confuse a MO-Drive as a CD-ROM for instance.

You can lock it to a certain id by simply adding the /idX  to the config.sys file on B: drive (replace X with id number)

Other thing to remember is that sometimes the X68000 sees IDs oddly.  My CD-ROM says it's on ID3, however the computer sees it on ID4.   It just does.

Boot up on A:, then try to register the drive with SUSIE

From prompt type:    SUSIE.X E:  ID____          This will tell SUSIE to assign ID______ (whatever you enter) as Drive E:.  If it doesn't find the drive, go through ALL the IDs until it does.

[cr4zymanz0r]

I'm at a loss. I tried your suggestions but nothing seemed to work.

First I tried using SUSIE.X from the A: command prompt. I tried ID1 through ID9 at a couple of different DIP settings. It didn't seem to work and gave me the same Japanese message every time. Here's a pic: http://i.imgur.com/fnqN1l7.jpg.

Next I tried editing the config.sys within SX-Windows. When the DIP settings were set to ID5 (I found the manual for the device btw http://www.fixya.com/support/p376415-panasonic_portable_cd_d745_cd_rom_drive/manual-8418), I added /ID5 after the CDDEV.SYS line, confirmed it saved the change, then rebooted. The drive still didn't show up. I tried /ID4 and /ID6 as well and neither of those worked.

Will the drive still show up in SX-Windows even if there's no disc in it? I've just had a random data cd in it for testing.

EDIT: I found out that "SUSIE.X E: -ID5" and such will setup a device, but it always says Unconnected and says SCSI MO rather than SCSI CD-ROM

[SuperDeadite]

oops, yeah for SUSIE it's "SUSIE.X E: -ID___"    I forgot the "-" for id, which is why you got all those error messages.  Sorry XD.

Anyway, if you assign a a drive letter via susie, but it does not find anything on that ID, it just registers it as an unconnected MO-Drive by default, meaning it found nothing on ID5...

Typically you need to have a cd you want to use in the drive already, and it needs to be loaded before the driver is activated.  On my setup, I put in the cd i want to use, turn on the drive, wait until the drive's lcd indicates it's ready, and then i run the driver on the computer.

If you try the to use susie and all IDs fail, your cd-rom drive might simply be too new or two old.  SCSI-II drives tend to work the best, the SpaceHarrier CD-Audio patch flat out says to use a SCSI-II drive as SCSI-I drives won't work.

Also be sure that in switch.x you have the SCSI setting set to 7.

[cr4zymanz0r]

I've still had no success but I'll tell you what I've found so far.

1.) I checked the SCSI_ID setting in switch.x and it is set to 7.
2.) With the SCSI ID on the drive set to 3, if I do "susie E: -ID3" it does the usual Unconnected SCSI MO setup. However, whenever I go to E: I will hear it spin up the CD. If i do a dir command It will spin up the cd again, but I only get what appears to be an <A>bort, <R>etry, <I>gnore error. Susie still shows the drive as a unconnected SCSI MO drive afterwards too. Whenever I do "susie E: -IDx" where x is a number besides 3, the disc does not spin when I go to the E: drive.
3.) The drive's manual states it is "SCSI-2 Software Command Compatible" which I assume is a long winded way of saying it's a SCSI-II drive.

It's like the drive is interfacing with the X68000 to some degree (due to it spinning up the disc), but it's as if for some reason it's refusing to fully see it as a cd-rom. Is there any kind of special way I need to burn a cd for it? Oiriginally I was just using a random driver cd to see if it could read a disc. Next I tried a CD-RW disc (which the cd-rom itself wouldn't detect), then I burnt a CD-R disc with a few .XDF disk images using the built in Windows CD burning tools (with the option to finalize the disc with no more writing to it). The fact that the X68000 makes the disc spin up seems like it should work, but I feel like missing some minor detail.

[SuperDeadite]

Hmm, odd that SUSIE isn't seeing it as a CD-ROM.  Do you have an external SCSI chain?  Like Computer>HDD>CD-ROM?

If so be sure your HDD doesn't have internal termination activated, and that the CD-ROM does have termination being on the end.  Also be sure that your HDD case actually has SCSI IN and SCSI OUT allowing for a chain.

For example, I have a MO Drive that actually doesn't have SCSI OUT, it has two SCSI INs, so that it can be shared between two computers without switching cables.    Hence it has to be on the very end of my chain.

For CDs I just use burn CD-R's with disk images and other files using standard Windows default data cd software.  I am using Windows XP, but it's just standard windows data cd format, which probably hasn't changed on more modern OSs

[cr4zymanz0r]

Being ignorant of SCSI, I never even thought to check the internal HDD termination. I still haven't had success, but maybe my findings/setup will help clue you in.

Here's a pic of the inside of my XVI http://i.imgur.com/wgDMqjS.jpg.  I'm using the Aztec Monster SCSI to CF board to use a CF card as a HDD (manual for it is here http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2545101/20111012093742.pdf). Also, the external CD-ROM is connected to the external SCSI connector in the bottom left (cable is not currently connected in the previous pic).

Here's a close up of my board how it was: http://i.imgur.com/6nrNwfe.jpg. With all the ID jumpers unshorted it defaults to ID 0. With termination unshorted it defaults to terminated. At first I thought I'd found the issue. I shorted the termination pins on the Aztec Monster board to set its termination to off. However, when I booted up the system the screen just remained blank (CD-ROM terminator was on during this). It would only boot if I held OPT1 on the keyboard to boot to floppy. After powering down the system and unshorting (terminating) the Aztec Monster board, the system would boot up again as normal. I tried setting the CD-ROM's termination off to see if that would change anything. All that did was make it not spin up when I use susie to set E: to ID3 then try to access the E: drive.

So in summary:
1.) CF HDD terminated + CD-ROM terminated = How i've been troubleshooting most of this post (drive spins up when trying to access E: after setting it up in susie, but it still doesn't work and shows up as a unconnected SCSI MO).
2.) CF HDD unterminated + CD-ROM terminated = System sits as a black screen and the CD-ROM gets spun/read more than usual.
3.) CF HDD terminated + CD-ROM unterminated = CD-ROM still isn't recognized and doesn't spin after trying to set it up in susie.

Also be sure that your HDD case actually has SCSI IN and SCSI OUT allowing for a chain.

I don't entirely understand that statement. I've never seen an original X68000 HDD so I don't know if it has the IN and OUT ports you're talking about. This Aztec Monster board only has the one port. Is that the issue?

[SuperDeadite]

Oh my mistake.  I thought you had the CF board in an external case.  Meaning you would have the CD-ROM connected to the HDD, connected to the computer.  Making an external SCSI chain.

In this case though, both devices should be terminated, as they make up separate ends of the chain.   Your setup is basically the same as mine, internal Aztec, external CD-ROM.

There is one other thing to try.  Though I'm not sure on the details here (paging Lydux! lol).  The computers SCSI board actually has a socketed resistor block which I believe acts as a terminator for the rear SCSI port.  With SCSI both ends of the chain should always be terminated.  So I think with computers that came with internal HDDs from the factory, the rear SCSI port was internally terminated to protect the HDD.   Meaning you would remove the resistor block if you wanted to use the rear port.

I used to have a Super-HD and it had the resistor block, while my stock XVI did not have one.  I took the HDD parts out of the Super to upgrade my XVI, and never messed with the SCSI resistor block, meaning my machine does not have one installed if I am remembering right.

[cr4zymanz0r]

Do you mean this? http://i.imgur.com/7NZqY81.jpg

EDIT: Well, I removed them from the sockets. I assume it was what you were talking about. The CD-ROM still doesn't work and behaves nearly the same as before. It still spins up when setting it in susie and attempting to access it. Only one thing was different: when I changed config.sys back to have CDDEV.SYS search for the ID (instead of me manually specifying it) when booting partition B:, I get an Abort/Retry/Ignore error. I can hit R once and it will proceed, but it still doesn't detect the CD-ROM. I never had that happen before, and it's odd that it only does it when set to automatically find the ID and not when I manually specify it.

Also, when I unplug the CD-ROM from the X68000 it still boots from the CF normally. I assumed removing the resistor blocks and having no terminating device would cause issues.

[SuperDeadite]

Yes.  You may want to pm someone who knows more about the hardware internals (lydux) before messing with those.  But if I remember correctly my XVI didn't have those, while the Super-HD did.  I never messed with them myself.

From my understanding of SCSI, termination is needed to prevent data corruption, unterminated ends just risks data corruption, doesn't stop the flow.

Just saw the edit.  Well that's all I can think of.  It might just not like your CD drive.  I use a Fujitsu 4x myself which looks similar.  This is about all the help I can offer here myself.

[cr4zymanz0r]

Thank you for all your assistance SuperDeadite. I know a lot more about SCSI and how it works with X68000 now, even if I still can't get this CD-ROM to work. Can you provide the model # of the Fujitsu cd-rom you're using? I might would try to hunt it down later since I'd at least know it's a model that should work for sure (assuming the current issue is with my drive).

Also, is there anyone here in the US who has a working CD-ROM setup on their X68000? It'd be nice if there's someone I could mail my CD-ROM and cable to (without paying a ton on shipping) to see if it works on a known working setup.

[alamone]

I'll let you know when I get my setup up and running. I have a XVI compact. I have an external SUN enclosure, which I put an Aztecmonster inside. I thought that just putting in the HDD image into the CF and it would auto-boot into it once connected, but this never happened. I would always get the error to put a disk in. So, I wrote a 3.5 inch floppy disk with the Human OS using a USB floppy drive, but of course I'm using Windows 7 so the format commands for 1.25MB are no longer supported. I happen to have a Windows XP laptop, and with that I was able to format the floppy correctly and get my XVI compact to boot into Human OS. However I don't have a keyboard. I thought I would be able to use a micro-controller based converter for my PS/2 keyboard, but my Wellon 280 universal programmer is not able to write to the Attiny26L with it correctly verifying. So the converter appears to not work and I am looking into getting a X68000 keyboard as well as a IDC cable and USB pic programmer to see if I can fix my converter.

If I ever get something working, I'll post here, haha, but it's been a long and frustrating journey. I also have a 4x portable SCSI cd-rom that I plan to use with the X68000, that is if I can ever get a working setup.

[SuperDeadite]

My drive is a Fujitsu FMV-NCD201

[lydux]

Looking to this picture : http://i.imgur.com/wgDMqjS.jpg
Your Aztec Monstec ID is set to 0, ID 0 is normally reserved to the SCSI initiator !.

With this setup, you might have a conflict between your host and the Aztec, so both are answering to the CDROM drive.

Please try this this setup :
- Aztec Monster set to ID 1, terminator off.
- Remove the blue resistor network (terminators) on the external block.
- Set your CDROM to ID 3, terminator on.

Also, don't forget to change your boot settings in switch.x (ID 1).
If your CF adapter isn't recognized, try setting its terminator to on.


PS : sorry for the very long reply.

[SuperDeadite]

Looking to this picture : http://i.imgur.com/wgDMqjS.jpg
Your Aztec Monstec ID is set to 0, ID 0 is normally reserved to the SCSI initiator !.

With this setup, you might have a conflict between your host and the Aztec, so both are answering to the CDROM drive.

Please try this this setup :
- Aztec Monster set to ID 1, terminator off.
- Remove the blue resistor network (terminators) on the external block.
- Set your CDROM to ID 3, terminator on.

Also, don't forget to change your boot settings in switch.x (ID 1).
If your CF adapter isn't recognized, try setting its terminator to on.


PS : sorry for the very long reply.

You positive about this?  From my understanding primary HDD should be ID0 and the SCSI controller = ID7.  In fact I think the SCSI setting in switch might actually allow the user to select the ID for the controller manually.  Anyways, I've always set my internal HDD/CF to ID0 and never had an issue.

[lydux]

Humm... My bad, you seem right SuperDeadite. I get confused myself as I am actually messing with SASI, I confirm that it has fixed LUN 0 reserved for the host (at least, for x68000). However, it's 7 for traditionnal SCSI, and 0 is recommended for hard drive.
Also, on my external SCSI box, I can't assign either ID 0 or 7 to devices.

In fact I think the SCSI setting in switch might actually allow the user to select the ID for the controller manually.

Ha ! That would explain why I see a bootable device detection routine within all SCSI rom disassembly.
So I might be wrong again ! I will check deeper for this.

Anyways, I've always set my internal HDD/CF to ID0 and never had an issue.

It doesn't hurt me, even if a single scsi bus owns 2 scsi devices with the same ID as long as there is only one initiator and one target in the chain, it could work in theory. The parallel SCSI bus is asynchronous, so a single device can't communicate to itself. A message from one would be only received by the other. But it's not recommended, and I'm not sure that every SCSI device handle this special case properly...

Anyway, maybe cr4zymanz0r issue is somewhere around ? Wrong initiator ID assignment in switch.x ?

Other ideas :
- Parity issue. It seems his CDROM can't set the parity setting, and I can't find any infos about it in the manual... Generally, parity is needed for CDROM and XVI models normally support it (unlike SASI systems).
- Poor SCSI driver. Also possible, I can't get one of my CDRW to work on my ACE... And it's because of the aged SASI driver.


Damn SCSI...