Planning RGB-modded PAL N64, need some guidance!

[metrolf]

Hi, I'm new to these forums and I'm having a problem. I originally posted this on benheck.com forums, but replies have been, lets just say, scarce.. These forums seems like it is a bit more tailored to my problem. So the below post is pretty much just a repost of that exact same post from the benheck forums.

So, as the title says, I'm looking into several options on how to get my N64 hooked up to my receiver/projector setup with the best possible results (RGB, go figure).

First of all; I DO NOT want any comments or replies that goes somewhere along the lines of "U cant mak pal 64 do rgb, only ntsc can do rgb! lol, u stooped!".
Yes, it can. It's just not as easy. At first i tought it was impossible too, and dreaded I would have to re-buy my entire 64-library and go with a NTSC console to get the results I wanted, but then I stumbled across a mod by someone called viletim, or eviltim on some other forums, idk... I'll add a link to the mod here:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/n64rgb/n64rgb.html
and this of the assembly guide:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/n64rgb/assembly.html
I found this guide to be a bit crude and I doubt I would be able to follow it, unfortunately. Is this is the best way to get RGB from my console? I dont know, could be other mods that work better.

I also stumbled upon an interesting german website called wolfsoft.de where, to my surprise, they sell PAL N64s with an RGB-mod of some sort allready installed. A RGB-booster cable is also supposed to come along. Some of you might allready know about this, but just in case I'll add the link here: http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_info.php/products_id/8382/cPath/133_145/nintendo-64/umbau-n64-pal-auf-rgb-incl.-rgb-booster-kabel.html
I also took the liberty of translating the description, as the entire page is conveniently german-only. Here goes:

"The German/European N64 is A/V (I guess they mean composite) and S-video suitable, unfortunately, it will not output a RGB signal.
With this rebuild from us, it is possible to obtain a brilliant RGB image from the device.
For this purpose, a digital to analog RGB converter is integrated internally and an RGB cable is attached.
Furthermore, the RGB image is amplified by a booster, so you get the BEST POSSIBLE image from your N64.
The picturequality on modern LCD/Plasma TVs is also better than the original A/V cable (included on the N64). However, it still looks best when the console is connected to a classic tube TV because the scaler in the LCD/Plasma TVs generally aren't very good."

Now, this sounds very interesting to me, alltough the pricetag is kinda steep, to say the least. It also seems like they have directly attached a RGB-cable (I assume this is a scart-cable) to the console. Also, I can't seem to figure out exactly what has been done to the console. Is it the same principle as described in viletims DAC-mod or is it something else that no one has yet seen? It's beyond me...

So what do you guys think? I would really appreciate some input on this as I don't really know what to go for at this point. Buying that modded console seems like an easy way out, but is the mod in it better or worse than the other possibilities out there? Getting a kit or something from viletim would definitely be something I could install on my own somehow.

Also, I have another bridge I eventually will have to cross if I want my 64 hooked up to my receiver: the receiver has got no scart inputs. I haven't really pondered too much about this as of now, but my immidiate thought was a scart to hdmi converter of some sort, like this: http://viewitem.eim.ebay.no/Konig-Scart-to-HDMI-Converter-convert-analogue-Scart-signal-to-a-digital/280944669144/item
I do fear that by taking a 4:3 image and running it though this convertor will stretch it out to 16:9. I could then un-stretch it with my projector by choosing 4:3, but wouldn't that hurt the quality a bit? I almost feel bad for the bloody signal, being converted over and over again. Also the receiver upscales the picture to 1080P for my projector. I realize the signal will probably loose a bit of quality from all this converting and re-scaling, but I can't really think of a better way. I'm thinking it'll still be better than composite or S-video, if not much better, at least a bit better and I will be happy with an improvement, no matter how small, as long as it is as good as it gets.

So, any thoughts or inputs?

[e5frog]

There's rarely a step in any conversion that improves the result, you should do a RGB mod (French models are much easier to modify) and I suggest one that you can afford. Tim's is a very affordable version, needs some soldering unless someone can do that for you.

When RGB is done you have several options to convert it to a needed signal that will look better than if you had done it from s-video, more expensive usually gives better result, hopefully you'll get proper result with your equipment. Converting to digital with cheap converters almost always cause delays in sound and/or video, not something you want for playing games.

I tried playing over composite signal on an LCD screen yesterday, looked mostly like crap compared to the "glass TV" it was meant to be played on.

[unshe]

hi metroif.
I did the tim's mod 2 weeks ago, i used the pcb project by e5frog.
For me the image is perfect, no need of any ampli. I cant image a better quality, really.
Maybe the one that is selling the console for 100 euro is speaking about a FRA n64. For this he need the ampli.

If you want a have some kit. just send a pm

[metrolf]

hi metroif.
I did the tim's mod 2 weeks ago, i used the pcb project by e5frog.
For me the image is perfect, no need of any ampli. I cant image a better quality, really.
Maybe the one that is selling the console for 100 euro is speaking about a FRA n64. For this he need the ampli.

If you want a have some kit. just send a pm

Thanks for the offer! But since I posted this, I've made a lot of progress. I got the DAC board finished, except for the CPLD, which I hope will arive shortly, so hopefully I'll get a good result like you too  Only thing is: I wil run the RGB scart signal trough a Scart to HDMI converter to get the 64 on my projector, and I suspect that this converter sucks, but I haven't tested it with a RGB signal yet. It sucks alot at converting composite (picture turns on/off) and s-video didn't work at all I've heard nothing but good stuff about a so-called "Framemeister" xrgb device that is supposed to work miracles converting scart to hdmi, but it's hell-a-expensive!
Anyways, I'll post an update when I've got the RGB mod done, maybe throw up a few pics, who knows?  You should too, I'm interested in seeing how good your picture is!

[unshe]

here there are some pictures from my installation:
http://www.retrogaminghistory.com/mercatino-rh-del-vendo-vf43/vendo-n64-pal-con-modifica-rgb-vt10838.html

3 are whit rgb and 3 whit videocomposite

If i can this night i will shot more in manual mode to make a good comparison of the brightness

[io]

The very best solution is to buy a N64 FRA console or only the board and solder the missing SMD components.
Then use a Super Nintendo RGB cable et voilà.

[unshe]

Is not the best solution, just the more simple and expensive.

[io]

I disagree, it gives a nicer image than all other mods.

[unshe]

Did you try the viletim's Dac replacement?

[io]

Indeed, I did not. Thanks for pointing this out.
So I should say "I disagree, it gives a nicer image than all other mods, not counting viletim's Dac replacement, because I did not try it to compare."

[metrolf]

Okey, I just got it to work! High-tech stuff and by far the trickiest soldering job I've ever done. I'll probably post some pictures later, but for now I gotta say the picture has improved IMMENSELY. Once you go RGB, you don't go back

The only problem left is how to hook it up to my system properly. The scart to hdmi converter I bought is utter crap and only registers the composite signal in the scart-plug. I'll open it now and disconnect the composite line internally as a last resort, however I don't expect much tho 

[unshe]

Congratulation!
Is the image centred using composite? Not shifted to left?
I'm using a original gamecube pal cable.
I removed the last cap on the composite's line e solder there the line of Sync from the additional DAC. i also give a 12v to the pin 3 of AV/out socket.
It is working very well. I have also a ntsc n64 modded whit a ths7314 ampli and i can say the image is not good as the dac-replacement one
If your hdmi adapter is able to take video only from video composite just forget it, buy another scaler.

[metrolf]

Yes, the picture is exactly where it should be Im using a Snes scart cable I got of ebay. Assuming it's the pal version as its working. Didn't need to do anything to it to get it working either!