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PC PS/2 keyboard and mouse converter to X68000

Started by eidis, October 06, 2011, 02:03:45 am

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Do you want one and how much were you willing to pay for it ?

20$
9 (37.5%)
40$
6 (25%)
60$
4 (16.7%)
80$
0 (0%)
No, I don't need one
5 (20.8%)

Total Members Voted: 24

eidis

October 06, 2011, 02:03:45 am Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 02:05:35 am by eidis
   Hi !

I am doing research on DIY PCB manufacturing. I hope that after some time it will come to a point where I can produce them in small volumes and reasonably good quality. The proposed unit is intended to allow connecting PC PS/2 keyboard and mouse to X68000. Please give me your thoughts and suggestions.

Keep the scene alive,
Eidis
X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

n8bit

hey I tried emailing you, but didn't get a response, do you have any schematics or code for this?  I can definitely build my own and am interested in doing so!

eidis

November 29, 2011, 01:12:23 pm #2 Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 01:16:19 pm by eidis
 Hi!

The main point of this project for me is to support the scene while at the same time learn new things and earn a little bit of money so I'm afraid that this will be kept as a closed project. For now there is no estimated time of availability.

Eidis
X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

eidis

 Hi Guys !

Would you rather prefer an adapter or custom made Logitech keyboard or mouse ? Please give me your thoughts.

Eidis

X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

eidis

December 19, 2011, 09:32:03 pm #4 Last Edit: December 19, 2011, 09:34:24 pm by eidis
 Hi Guys !

Just a small update on the project. The schematics and microcode for both adapters have been obtained. I decided to make it as an adapter in a small box with the following dimensions:

a = 46mm/1.81" b = 31mm/1.22" c = 16mm/0.63"

http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-C.jpg
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-J.jpg
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-N.jpg
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-R.jpg

I think that black color would be best suited for this adapter. The final product will have an integrated  PS/2 socket and a 15cm cable with appropriate connector going to the X68000.

Any thoughts and suggestions are highly welcome.

Eidis
X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

n8bit

I agree on the black box for the converter.  it matches most of the units.  do you have any idea when this will be available?

eidis

December 31, 2011, 07:46:34 am #6 Last Edit: December 31, 2011, 11:59:38 am by eidis
 Hi !

The adapter could be ready somewhere in February, depending on how much free cash I will have on my hands. Right now there are plans for separate keyboard and mouse converters but if time and knowledge permits, I will integrate them both into one. It is coming, just not as fast as expected ;)

Eidis

P.S. Did you succeed in connecting SCSI hard drive to your X68000 ?
X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

Opethian

this would be nice! I would buy one of these if I dont find a real keyboard in time.

papa_november

January 16, 2012, 11:39:03 am #8 Last Edit: January 16, 2012, 11:41:32 am by papa_november
Quote from: eidis on December 19, 2011, 09:32:03 pm
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-C.jpg
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-J.jpg
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-N.jpg
http://foto2.inbox.lv/eidis/X68000/N-43-R.jpg


None of these images are loading for me.

Also, if you're going to be making these, you should post them elsewhere. Places like Shmups Forum or the Digital Press board. See if you can get anyone on the Japanese side interested too. Hell, sell the first batch on eBay.

There has to be some demand for these things because getting an X68000 by itself isn't too hard - it's getting the essential peripherals that's another story. That and the original mouse and keyboard aren't of the greatest quality.

You could make a tiny side-business out of this. You could come up with drop-in replacement PCBs for certain popular control pads that give J-PC compatibility, tiny boards that would serve as easy-to-make VGA-to-JRGB-15 adaptors, and maybe even clone the XSIMMVI (an easier task then you think, there's like one TTL chip on the thing).

ApolloBoy

Quote from: papa_november on January 16, 2012, 11:39:03 am
You could make a tiny side-business out of this. You could come up with drop-in replacement PCBs for certain popular control pads that give J-PC compatibility, tiny boards that would serve as easy-to-make VGA-to-JRGB-15 adaptors, and maybe even clone the XSIMMVI (an easier task then you think, there's like one TTL chip on the thing).

Seconded. I'm highly considering picking up an X68k this year and being able to use a PC keyboard and mouse would make it even better. I can't seem to find X68k keyboards by themselves for under 9000 yen so having an adapter would be great!

RobIvy64

For those electronics wizards out there, here is the schematic.

"Console Mods" lurker

BlueBMW


eidis

 I'm out of a job so the project is halted for an unknown time.

Eidis
X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

BlueBMW

Quote from: eidis on January 28, 2012, 03:09:21 am
I'm out of a job so the project is halted for an unknown time.

Eidis


Ahh, sorry to hear that.  I may try and make my own based on the schematics on that Japanese page, but if you decide to make some custom boards someday, that'd be sweet.

lydux

Hi,

Ok so, here is my ps2 to x68k keyboard converter. I've quickly designed it while studying the MFP inside the IO board. Unlike the known one, it use an atmega32 from atmel, but with a bits of modifications, it should work with any kind of avr that support uart and external interrupts. (I've also test it with an atmega644p).

I provide it with full source code, nicely commented for those who are interested, and ready to be build with avr-gcc and avr-libc under linux  (I don't really know what tools is available under windows for avr development, I've heard about a "winavr"...)



Source code here


Sorry, I don't provide a PCB yet, I would like to do some reworking on it first (using a smaller mcu, adding keyboard leds handling and key repeat/delay time, mouse, ...)

Oh also, here is a note about the keyboard port : I don't know why, but all the mini din7 keyboard pinouts informations I have found on japanese sites are all wrong ! The "Remote Signal" and "Ground" are inverted. 
Here is the correct one : (Traced myself from the IO board. View is from front of the x68000, the female connector)


Signal description :
- KBD_TX : Connected to MFP usart transmitter. Used by host to send command to keyboard (leds on/off, key repeat/delay, keyboard/mouse turn, ...)
- KBD_RX : Connected to MFP usart receiver. Used by the keyboard to send its keystroke to host.
- KBD_READY : Connected to MFP signal #RR, this is just an information signal asserted when MFP usart receiver is full. (like too much data from keyboard)
- KBD_MS_DATA : Mouse Data from keyboard. Connected to SCC channel B, shared with the mouse connector. (Yes, it seems some keyboard can attach a mouse. Seems configured as 4800bps,8N1. must study more)
- KBD_RS : Remote Signal (must study)
-+5Vsb : +5v stand by from psu. Keyboard seems to be always powered (some kind of remote wake up ?)
-Gnd : Ground.


That's all ! Have fun !  :)

BlueBMW

March 01, 2012, 12:59:09 pm #15 Last Edit: March 01, 2012, 01:05:33 pm by BlueBMW
I ordered all the parts to try and build one of these adapters.  If it works, I'll look into getting some custom PCBs made up for it and make a cheap kit.  I also ordered in a Japanese PS/2 keyboard, just in case it doesnt work with a US PS/2 keyboard.  

For now I used the design as shown on that Japanese site, though in retrospect, lydux's design looks a little simpler :P

Total cost for parts is under $10 an adapter.  Custom PCBs should be producable for a few bucks a piece.

Also lydux... I thought I read somewhere that the remote signal was used for some sort of wake up command to turn the computer on... is that possibly what that line is used for?

BlueBMW

I attempted to build one of these adapters last night.  It does not seem to work as of yet.  It may be that they only work with Japanese PS/2 keyboards and not US ones.  I dont have a Japanese PS/2 keyboard to test with, only a US one.  once the JPN keyboard I ordered comes in I'll check this unit again.

Note: I hadn't installed the PIC chip yet.


lydux

It should work with any PS/2 keyboard. Keystrokes codes for japanese and other country are all the same (JP keyboard just add some key like romanji switch with an associated keystroke, and of course not used by other one).
Remember that the keystroke is hardware side. While the character it will output is software side and generally up to the operating system.
For example, the key code for the letter "Q" on a qwerty keyboard will be the same as the key code for letter "A" on an azerty one.

Please first check for correct power supply on keyboard and pic without the keyboard and pic inserted.
Then, plug the keyboard. When powered on, it should perform what we call a "BAT" (Basic Assurance Test) by flashing the 3 leds at same time for about an half second.
This is the first test to do when building such adapter.

BlueBMW

March 12, 2012, 01:43:19 am #18 Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 02:03:42 am by BlueBMW
I've checked the power supply and ground lines at the pic pins and at the PS/2 keyboard port.  Evertyhing that's supposed to be 5v is 5v and everything that is supposed to be ground is ground.  When I plug the keyboard in, it does flash the 3 LEDs like you said.  Maybe there is an issue with the PIC program.

The schematic specified a PIC16C84/F84  I have a PIC16F84A  I tried to reassemble the code for an F84A, but it doesnt seem to have made a difference.  This is the first time I've ever dealt with PIC programming before.

eidis

 Blue BMW,

Did you use a 10Mhz PIC for your project ?

Eidis
X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

BlueBMW

Quote from: eidis on March 12, 2012, 02:49:21 am
Blue BMW,

Did you use a 10Mhz PIC for your project ?

Eidis


Ahh, I wonder if thats the issue.  I beleive this is a 20mhz PIC.  Isnt the clock set by the crystal though?

lydux

I absolutly don't know PIC family.
As far as I know, 16C84 is up to 10mhz while 16F84A is 20Mhz. It should work like any cpu/mcu, this is a maximum supported frequency.
So, a 9.8304Mhz crystal should be ok for both PIC.

On AVR family, you need to configure the clock before use (internal/external, crystal/oscillator, and frequency range). But I can't tell about PIC.

BlueBMW

Turns out my programmer was not writing correctly.  It cant write PIC chips on only USB (5v) power, and the 12.5v adapter part of the programmer doesnt seem to work.  So I picked up another PIC programmer board and tried it out...







So, as the OP asked, is there interest in some mass produced custom PCBs for these, either as a build it yourself or prebuilt kit?

eidis

X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

lydux

Eidis ! The X68KEY2 is an x68000 keyboard to PS2 converter !  :)

I'm currently working on something and have ordered some components for this project 2 days ago.
By the same time, I bought a cheaper and smaller mcu because I want to rework my keyboard converter (the one I've posted were just a prototype, it's huge but I still use it). The next one will be largely easier to build, and I will provide pcb this time.

Just want to notice it.  ;)

eidis

May 22, 2012, 05:33:12 am #25 Last Edit: May 22, 2012, 05:36:04 am by eidis
 Thank you Lydux for the heads up. x68key2 entries have been removed to avoid further confusion. While we are at it, the following web page might be of interest to you ;)

http://kum.dyndns.org/works/mouse/index.html

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

P.S. You wouldn't happen to be secretly developing a X68000 SOC ?
X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

BlueBMW

I will agree that the design I used (Mr Sawada's)  while function is a little heavy on the parts.  If lydux comes up with a much more efficient solution, that would be excellent.  If people want boards made up for the Sawada design, let me know.

Also, I  tried reprogramming the 20mhz PIC I had, and it also worked just fine when programmed properly.

lydux

Quote from: eidis on May 22, 2012, 05:33:12 am
Thank you Lydux for the heads up. x68key2 entries have been removed to avoid further confusion. While we are at it, the following web page might be of interest to you ;)

http://kum.dyndns.org/works/mouse/index.html

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

P.S. You wouldn't happen to be secretly developing a X68000 SOC ?


Thank for the link, I will take a look later. The simple mouse converter project is still on my list.


PS : Got a dream Eidis ?  I often do the same...  :D
I can't do this actually : lacks of skills, time and... outside x68000 !
But I can say I'm on something related to the x68k yes. And I'm not alone this time !  ;)

Opethian

now if only someone could craft an X1 keyboard adaptor! lol

Segasonicfan

Did this ever materialize?  I need a keyboard and would love to buy a DIY kit for one of these or premade board.

eidis

 Hi Segasonicfan !

Here you go.

If you don't have a keyboard
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:don_t_have_a_keyboard

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

98pacecar

Somebody did a run of boards for this at some point, though I'm not certain of who. I know the adaptor that was built for me was on a very nice, premade board. You might check with BlueBMW and see if he can recommend someone to contact.

BlueBMW

I got some premade boards from a guy on neo-geo forums.  Not sure how many he made but they do make assembly a lot easier than a generic project board.

Segasonicfan

Quote from: BlueBMW on July 15, 2014, 02:03:54 am
I got some premade boards from a guy on neo-geo forums.  Not sure how many he made but they do make assembly a lot easier than a generic project board.


I'd be interested in one.  Or any DIY kit or anything really.  Does anyone know someone who sells them?

-Segasonicfan

Neshek


eidis

 Hi Neshek !

Certainly! More info here:

PS/2 Mouse Adapter
http://kum.dyndns.org/works/mouse/index.html

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

a24tanabe

Hi eidis.
I don't good at hardware,but can we make USB to 68 board?
In japan , USB keyboard and mouse converter is sell by a group,but it is expensive.
(Each converter prices $100!) So I can't get yet.


eidis

 A24Tanabe San,

Unfortunately my hardware knowledge is very limited. The adapter which is covered in this page was invented by Mr. M.Sawada long time ago and he deserves all credit for it. It is not very difficult to build it and full info can be found in the following links.

ここは m.sawada の個人的な趣味的ウェブサイトです。
http://www.tsp.ne.jp/~sawada/mago/index.html

If you don't have a keyboard
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:don_t_have_a_keyboard

The main components are very cheap and can be purchased here:

PIC + E-Eprom programmer for PIC16F84 and 24xxx eeproms
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PIC-E-Eprom-programmer-for-PIC16F84-and-24xxx-eeproms-/280601526138?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4155277f7a

1PCS IC MICROCHIP DIP-18 PIC16F84A-20/P
http://www.ebay.com/itm/251062410589?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

The only drawback is that it requires a PS2 keyboard. Maybe Lydux can comment on the USB adapter ?

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
X68000 personal computer is called, "X68K" or "no good good" is called, is the PC that are loved by many people today.

lydux

These x68k <-> USB keyboards converters are liars... Most USB keyboards are able to talk PS2 protocols nativelly. So these converters just output a female USB plug instead of the mini DIN 6 (PS2) which is a good idea in fact ! USB plugs are cheaper, and every keyboards are USB nowadays anyway.

USB to PS2 wiring :


      USB                PS2
  GND   (black) <===> GND (3)
  Data+ (green) <===> Clock (5)
  Data- (white) <===> Data (1)
  +5v     (red) <===> +5v (4)


I've personnally built a single chip x68k keyboard converter using an attiny45 in SOP8 package (about 5mm x 5mm IC). It's so small that it can fit directly inside the keyboard (a miniature one for instance), and I do have changed the USB male plug to a mini DIN 7 for the x68k (only 4 wires are needed on the x68k side, so the coord is still the same). Less than $5 solution !

I'll try to put some pictures.

I also would like to put the source code and microcode, but I need your help guys : I can't really determine of an ideal key mapping... So, I leave this to you and listening ! :)

costa

Quote from: lydux on July 29, 2014, 02:11:29 am
These x68k <-> USB keyboards converters are liars... Most USB keyboards are able to talk PS2 protocols nativelly. So these converters just output a female USB plug instead of the mini DIN 6 (PS2) which is a good idea in fact ! USB plugs are cheaper, and every keyboards are USB nowadays anyway.

USB to PS2 wiring :


      USB                PS2
  GND   (black) <===> GND (3)
  Data+ (green) <===> Clock (5)
  Data- (white) <===> Data (1)
  +5v     (red) <===> +5v (4)


I've personnally built a single chip x68k keyboard converter using an attiny45 in SOP8 package (about 5mm x 5mm IC). It's so small that it can fit directly inside the keyboard (a miniature one for instance), and I do have changed the USB male plug to a mini DIN 7 for the x68k (only 4 wires are needed on the x68k side, so the coord is still the same). Less than $5 solution !

I'll try to put some pictures.

I also would like to put the source code and microcode, but I need your help guys : I can't really determine of an ideal key mapping... So, I leave this to you and listening ! :)


Hi,

That is a great solution for DIY guys. I would love to have this solution for myself - I do have X68000 keyboards, but I love playing with the possibilities and help friends that do not have other options.

But the box type converter cannot be ruled out.

There are people that are not able or do not want to get their hands dirty (DIY). These people need the little box.
I still don't understand why there is not one permanent sale for these little boxes somewhere (like ebay), at reasonable prices.