Comparing modern day consoles to their wimpy ancestors

[zedrein]

I've observed that most members here tend to prefer playing their "retro" video games through the machines they were created for. I suppose that has it's advantages, namely having the ability to use the original controls as opposed to inexpensive knock-offs that can be plugged into our PC's for use with [illegal] console emulators (don't worry, I won't make too many mentions of those) But there is at least one clear cut advantage that a modern gaming system that can run old games has over it's aging counterparts: It's video quality. No, I am not referring to the Nintendo Wii's ability to display old software in progressive 480 line mode over component cables or the Xbox 360's and PS3's updated and high def cleansed renderings of old arcade games, I am highlighting a much less advertised and discussed observation, that being said machines' overall superior PQ versus the original gaming console.

I conducted a series of tests comparing the overall picture quality of identical software running on it's original platform and also the Wii's Virtual Console. Making use of both the composite and s-video (when available) outputs on both the classic consoles and the current gen Wii running on the same television set from a myriad of systems ranging from the Nintendo NES to the TurboGrafx-16, I can say unequivocally that the Wii's video quality was far superior in every way in terms of sharpness, [lack of] dot crawl and color bleeding, and clarity. Many people tend to dismiss this fact citing that current generation systems are inherently going to display a superior picture because "Old systems have aged in a way that would cause their video output to produce lower quality images than if they were brand new" I was a person that held this same misconception until I began investigating on my own and found out (in part thanks to this very forum) that just because a system is long in tooth doesn't mean it's going to produce video or audio that is lacking in fidelity compared to when it was brand new, it's fidelity is mostly dependent on it's DAC, or digital to analog converter that lives within the system. So this leads me to the longing question: Why would using the original gaming console and cartridge or CD be preferable over playing the same software on a machine that has superior capabilities?

I am sure there are several legitimate reasons, and I would like to hear them all. I would also like to hear your theories on why a modern system can generate such a vastly superior picture in comparison to it's defunct counterpart.

[Artemio]

That view is shattered when comparing those same consoles via RGB  (when posssible and using an upscan converter) vs the wii, ps3 or xbox 360 via HDMI or component.

Here's one such exampe:

Metal Slug 3 on Neo Geo MVS (through XRGB-3)


Metal Slug 3 on XBox 360 via HDMI:


Metal Slug 3 via Wii (anthology version, apparently ugly 525i)


All done on teh same TV, an LN46A950

[NFG]

Both points are undeniably true: modern consoles have far superior video encoding hardware, but they aren't always producing output that is perfectly matched to the original game.  

The reason we stick to old consoles (and try to match them up with CRTs instead of flat panels) is 'cause, especially with RGB, the result is superior to anything else.  No video processing lag, no upscaling artifacts, no emulation discrepancies.  Modern hardware might be superior in a technical sense, but if the resolution doesn't match or it sounds funny or it's poorly filtered or if -dammit - I want dotcrawl in my games, they can't match the original.

There's a good reason to do it both ways.  Currently I do most of my retro gaming on a big ol' plasma running emulation on a hacked up XBOX.  It's simply more convenient, especially since my XRGB power supply died... But when I want to get the best quality, I drag out boxloads of cables and gear and hook up the old CRT.  =)

[zedrein]

That's why I fully endorse the Wii's Virtual Console service, they don't render the software in a different resolution than it would of ran on the original hardware. Also, when you connect the Wii to a good CRT with component inputs, the result is comparable if not better than RGB on the same display. Of course there exists shortcomings with playing classic games in this way: Firstly the controls are obviously not the same, but that can be remedied by purchasing third party adapters that allow you to plug your old Genesis/SNES/NES/N64/TGFX16 etc. controllers into the Wiimote for an identical gameplay experience. Secondly is the fact that not all your favorite software will be released to the  public, which is sadly just a compromise that has to be made. I personally enjoy having all of my old consoles as well as my new ones for playing my favorite classic games, but when I am in the mood for some Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past for the SNES or Phantasy Star II for the Sega Genesis, I am going to choose the Virtual Console every time for a more reliable and aesthetically pleasing option.

[RGB32E]

Both points are undeniably true: modern consoles have far superior video encoding hardware, but they aren't always producing output that is perfectly matched to the original game.  

I agree... to a point.  The XBLA version of Double Dragon is a great example of where all the pixels are preserved (original graphics mode).  There are many other similar examples  that go both ways.

It sounds like you need to get a 13.8VDC power supply for your XRGB, as 240p component didn't serve you very well on your Panasonic X1 ....

[RGB32E]

That's why I fully endorse the Wii's Virtual Console service, they don't render the software in a different resolution than it would of ran on the original hardware. Also, when you connect the Wii to a good CRT with component inputs, the result is comparable if not better than RGB on the same display. Of course there exists shortcomings with playing classic games in this way: Firstly the controls are obviously not the same, but that can be remedied by purchasing third party adapters that allow you to plug your old Genesis/SNES/NES/N64/T64 etc. controllers into the Wiimote for an identical gameplay experience. Secondly is the fact that not all your favorite software will be released to the  public, which is sadly just a compromise that has to be made. I personally enjoy having all of my old consoles as well as my new ones for playing my favorite classic games, but when I am in the mood for some Legend of Zelda: Link to the Past for the SNES or Phantasy Star II for the Sega Genesis, I am going to choose the Virtual Console every time for a more reliable and aesthetically pleasing option.

The NES and SNES VC system emulators are subperb... I've compared the F-Zero on Wii VC and real hardware (RGB->FC-14->Component 240p) and the picture is extremely similar.  The Wii's video quality is slightly sharper, but I prefer the SNES better due to fully authentic sound.
Unfortunately, not all VC system emus will display in native resolution (e.g. 240p) ... 

[Tiido Priimägi]

That Xbox Metal Slug shot... apparently the emulator has that awful filter used, any way those could be turned off so only square unmutilated pixels remain ?

[RGB32E]

That Xbox Metal Slug shot... apparently the emulator has that awful filter used, any way those could be turned off so only square unmutilated pixels remain ?

Nope!  I just checked and the XBLA version of Metal Slug 3 does not provide any graphical settings... just Music volume level, sound volume level, credits, and difficulty.  So, this version cannot be played unfiltered (stretched). 

[zedrein]

The NES and SNES VC system emulators are subperb... I've compared the F-Zero on Wii VC and real hardware (RGB->FC-14->Component 240p) and the picture is extremely similar.  The Wii's video quality is slightly sharper, but I prefer the SNES better due to fully authentic sound.
Unfortunately, not all VC system emus will display in native resolution (e.g. 240p) ...  

I'd say that even though some N64 and maybe TGFX16 games don't render in "240p" on the Wii, it's a fair trade off for better overall PQ (even though I have a strange hatred for interlaced scanning)

[panzeroceania]

Both points are undeniably true: modern consoles have far superior video encoding hardware, but they aren't always producing output that is perfectly matched to the original game.  

I agree... to a point.  The XBLA version of Double Dragon is a great example of where all the pixels are preserved (original graphics mode).  There are many other similar examples  that go both ways.

It sounds like you need to get a 13.8VDC power supply for your XRGB, as 240p component didn't serve you very well on your Panasonic X1 ....

I just checked Xbox Live arcade and apparently people who haven't bought Double Dragon in the past cannot buy it anymore, it's been "delisted" as wikipedia says.

There is still hope for me though, my gamertag is:

Panzer Oceania


if you give me your gamertag (if you feel comfortable doing that so I can add you as a friend you can PM me or post here) then I can click on it via looking at what games you have played and buy it that way, it would be greatly appriciated