Wells Gardner D9800 sync woes (SNES, PS2)

[Badspot]

I have a Wells Garder D9800 monitor.  I have successfully used it in conjunction with:

• NTSC Gamecube via modified d-terminal cable in both interlaced and progressive mode.
  
• PC running soft 15khz, in a variety of resolutions (256x240, 320x240, 640x480, 800x600, others)
  
  The problems start when I try to hook up my PS2 or SNES (both are US NTSC models).  I have a nice looking ps2 AV->Arcade monitor cable that I purchased from ultimarc.  When I hook it up, the monitor still says "no signal" but I can see the game image in the background with the correct colors but it is scrolling horizontally and vertically as if there were no sync signal. 
  
  I tried making an SNES RGB cable.  I tried it in several configurations:
  
  
• SNES csync->monitor h/csync (vga pin 13)
  
• SNES csync->LM1881N->monitor h/csync
  
• SNES csync->LM1881N->monitor h/csync + monitor vsync
  
• SNES composite->LM1881N->monitor h/csync
  
• SNES composite->LM1881N->monitor h/csync + monitor vsync
  
  In all configurations I get nothing, the monitor turns off.  If i try it without the sync, I can see the SNES image scrolling in the background of the "no signal" message. 
  
  I am starting to think that this damn thing can't handle any kind of composite sync signal because the only things I can get working have separate horizontal and vertical sync.  If that's true then using something like an LMH1980 may work because it appears to output pure h/v sync instead of composite sync.  However this is a surface mount chip and may be impossible to acquire in quantities under 1000. 
  
  Does anyone have this monitor or any advice?
  

[luster]

I have a same problem. I want to SENS to PC VGA Mon.
I don't konw the SENS how to output the V/H sync signal.

[RGB32E]

I have a Wells Garder D9800 monitor.  I have successfully used it in conjunction with:

• NTSC Gamecube via modified d-terminal cable in both interlaced and progressive mode.
  
• PC running soft 15khz, in a variety of resolutions (256x240, 320x240, 640x480, 800x600, others)
  
  The problems start when I try to hook up my PS2 or SNES (both are US NTSC models).  I have a nice looking ps2 AV->Arcade monitor cable that I purchased from ultimarc.  When I hook it up, the monitor still says "no signal" but I can see the game image in the background with the correct colors but it is scrolling horizontally and vertically as if there were no sync signal. 
  
  I tried making an SNES RGB cable.  I tried it in several configurations:
  
  
• SNES csync->monitor h/csync (vga pin 13)
  
• SNES csync->LM1881N->monitor h/csync
  
• SNES csync->LM1881N->monitor h/csync + monitor vsync
  
• SNES composite->LM1881N->monitor h/csync
  
• SNES composite->LM1881N->monitor h/csync + monitor vsync
  
  In all configurations I get nothing, the monitor turns off.  If i try it without the sync, I can see the SNES image scrolling in the background of the "no signal" message. 
  
  I am starting to think that this damn thing can't handle any kind of composite sync signal because the only things I can get working have separate horizontal and vertical sync.  If that's true then using something like an LMH1980 may work because it appears to output pure h/v sync instead of composite sync.  However this is a surface mount chip and may be impossible to acquire in quantities under 1000. 
  
  Does anyone have this monitor or any advice?
  
  

It looks like you are on the right path by going with a LMH1980.  I've encountered the same issue with the SNES and a front projector.  When using the LM1881N and connecting the composite and vertical sync outputs from the LM1881N resulted in a scrambled picture.  However, when disconnecting the vertical sync from the projector, a picture appeared!  In your case, the DB15 connector doesn't accept composite sync period.  Hence, the LM1881N just isn't going to work.  Check out digikey if you'd like to order a LMH1980, however, it looks like it'll cost you about $11 for one chip!  You could also try ordering samples directly from Intersil...

OR
You could just pick up an Extron RGB interface off of ebay for cheap (and becomes only a cabling issue, no tiny soldering).  Here are some suggestions:

http://cgi.ebay.com/2-ea-Extron-RGB-304-with-ADSP-P-N-60-244-01-WTY_W0QQitemZ330339574108QQ

http://cgi.ebay.com/Extron-RGB-202-Plus_W0QQitemZ200356587805QQ

http://cgi.ebay.com/Extron-RGB-120p-Interface-with-Power-Supply-MINT_W0QQitemZ220438851139QQ

http://cgi.ebay.com/EXTRON-RGB-109-Plus-110v_W0QQitemZ330340730494QQ

http://cgi.ebay.com/Extron-RGB-202-Plus-Univeral-Analog-Interface-PS_W0QQitemZ290326987610QQ

[RGB32E]

Also, could you post some pictures of your gamecube on the D9800?  Your post has me interested in purchasing one of these monitors!

[Badspot]

I was able to order some free samples of the LMH1980 a few days ago through the national semiconductor website, so we'll see how it works out when they get here. 

I often have trouble figuring out wtf a particular extron box does.  I mean I see the connectors but hsnyc/vsnyc/csync/sync on green/15khz interlaced/15khz progressive/31khz/various voltage levels - It's all very difficult to keep track of especially when you're using it for a non-standard application like connecting a console to an arcade monitor. 

Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera right now.  I've been meaning to pick one up though so I might have pics later. 

The monitor is okay.  I have some quality concerns over it.  The biggest problem is that it arrived with a defect in the tube - a dark spot about quarter inch in diameter right near the center of the screen.  No amount of de-gausing will remove it.  If I had bought it from a store, I would have returned it immediately, but I had it shipped a thousand miles so I'm pretty well screwed. 

It has inconsistent screen geometry - I have to readjust everything all the time.  When I first got it, it was impossible to adjust the screen correctly.  With my best efforts there was still about a 20% horizontal stretch on the outside corners compared to the center.  Then one day it made a *ka-ping* noise and the geometry went completely wonky - but I was able to re-adjust everything and finally get a good picture so it's like it fixed itself.  I guess I could call WG and complain but I doubt they'd send me another one for free and shipping this one back and forth would probably cost more than just buying a new one.

It does have nice bright colors and it runs in a variety of resolutions and it looks really good in 15khz mode as long as I'm not playing a game where that damn dark spot is noticeable.  What I wanted it for was to play old games with none of the latency associated with modern flat panel monitors and it does do that.  Most people don't notice the latency but it's a subtle sub-conscious thing - on a crt you're just better at the game and have more fun.  People buy old games over virtual console on wii or 360 and then they play them on their flat screen tvs and wireless controllers and the experience is crap.  It makes me depressed because you hardly hear this mentioned in main stream gaming media - it's like no one notices it but me.  Hmm, got a little off topic there but yeah. 

[RGB32E]

I was able to order some free samples of the LMH1980 a few days ago through the national semiconductor website, so we'll see how it works out when they get here.

That's cool.  I've only worked with the LM1881, so I'm curious to hear how that turns out.

I often have trouble figuring out wtf a particular extron box does.  I mean I see the connectors but hsnyc/vsnyc/csync/sync on green/15khz interlaced/15khz progressive/31khz/various voltage levels - It's all very difficult to keep track of especially when you're using it for a non-standard application like connecting a console to an arcade monitor.

Read this (it'll explain everything... ):
http://www.extron.com/company/article.aspx?id=interfaces_ga

Unfortunately, I don't have a digital camera right now.  I've been meaning to pick one up though so I might have pics later.

That's fine, just thought I'd ask...

It makes me depressed because you hardly hear this mentioned in main stream gaming media - it's like no one notices it but me.  Hmm, got a little off topic there but yeah.

Those are the kind of topics that are posted on this forum...

[Badspot]

Update: The LMH1980 is incredibly tiny.  Impossible to use without a custom pcb and solder paste, and even then it would be dicey.

I tried getting h/vsync from c/vsync using nand gates to no avail.

I have discovered that the GS4982 IC is basically just like the LM1880 except it produces h/vsync instead of c/vsync.  It is of course out of production.  There is a supplier that has some but they want $9.38 each for them and you have to order $50 worth.  Bah, I'll probably do it just to put this damn thing to rest. 

Pics of my setup:

The monitor in a frame I built out of pipe.  The dangly wire bit is the OSD controls. 


Modified d-terminal cable (not very exciting).  The D-terminal cable is nice since it has data lines which you can cannibalize for h/v sync. 


Fzero-GX in progressive scan mode:

Full res version: http://badspot.us/Arcade%20Monitor/Fzero-original-res.jpg

Megaman 2 via nestopia at 256x240

Full res version: http://badspot.us/Arcade%20Monitor/megaman-original-res.jpg

Bonus: The first pic I took of megaman, he blinked which made me chuckle. 

[viletim]

Update: The LMH1980 is incredibly tiny.  Impossible to use without a custom pcb and solder paste, and even then it would be dicey.

Didn't check the package type first?

Try to get an EL1883. It's a clone of the LM1881 with a H-sync output in place of the C-sync, available in a SOIC package. Alternatively, you could use a pair of no retriggerable one-shots to convert C-sync to H-sync.