SNES + N64 PAL RGB

[Shadow_Zero]

I've got a Gamecube RGB cable (this one to be precisely: http://www.logic3.com/?page=shop/flypage&p...afb17bd23cc5fae )
and I'd like to use it with my PAL N64 and PAL SNES.
When I use it with those systems, the screen starts out ok but soon will fade away into black.
Now I've read something on the old forum that by removing the "capacitors" (whatever they are) could solve the problem. Is that correct? Is it easy to remove those capacitors?
And does the image really improve then with the SNES and N64?
How about the modifications? The website doesn't have any for a PAL SNES and N64, or don't these systems need modifications for RGB support?


Also, I have a Panasonic "Q" Gamecube connected via s-video to my tv (only composite and s-video are possible). Lan-Kwei has MODIFIED RGB CABLE FOR THE PANASONIC Q for $45 (see http://www.lan-kwei.com/gamecubeE/ ) and I was wondering if that's worth the buy or that I'm better off with my s-video. The Lan-Kwei RGB cable is connected via the Digital A/V out of the Q, does that improve quality over the standard connections or doesn't that matter?


Thanks in advance!

[NFG]

You seem a bit confused about the advantages of RGB over S-Video.  Is it better?  Yes.  Is it worth it?  That's up to you.

The capacitors are indeed the problem, and by bypassing them you will make the cable work on your PAL SNES (but not a SNESjr).  They're the little cylindrical bits inside the SCART connector, cut them out and connect the two wires together.  I'm wondering though why you don't just buy a SNES RGB cable - hacking the caps off the GC one will render it incompatible with your GC.  The PAL N64 does not do RGB.  There is apparently an mod by a german company for $70, but no one cares enough to pay for it, it seems.

As for the Q, the cable they sell gives you RGB.  Whether it's worth it for you is entirely up to you.

[Shadow_Zero]

Well yes, I know RGB is better than S-Video. At least that's what I read and hear everytime. Only haven't seen it with my own eyes yet  
Though one friend of mine prefers S-Video over RGB for some reason...

Anyway, the reason I'd like to use this particular RGB cable is because it has an A/V block so I can connect the audio to my stereo. Also it gives me the ability to connect my NES on the same cable with composite.
I don't have a normal Gamecube, so it's no biggy to remove the capacitors (if I figure it out how to do it exactly).
But if anyone knows a SNES RGB cable with A/V block that might be an easier option.

But what happens if I use such a cable with the PAL N64? Because know the N64 reacts the same as the SNES. The image on my screen starts out fine, but then fades into black.

Also what's VERY odd is that I have used the same cable at my girlfriends place and it just works with the PAL N64!
How is that possible then? Or does her tv somehow transform the signal to standard A/V or something?
(I've got a Philips widescreen, she a Samsung widescreen).

Thanks for the info so far  


PS: I was under the impression that the Digital AV out of the Gamecube was only for connecting it to a monitor. Now is it also possible to connect a (modified) RGB cable to the tv?

[d4s]

i picked up about 10 "broken" snes rgb cables cheap last week that actually were gc rgb cables in a box that claimed to contain snes rgb cables.
if you want to modify your cable,you may want to connect
all r,g,b,audio,sync and blanking signal grounds together
or it wont work on some TVs.

[Shadow_Zero]

i picked up about 10 "broken" snes rgb cables cheap last week that actually were gc rgb cables in a box that claimed to contain snes rgb cables.
if you want to modify your cable,you may want to connect
all r,g,b,audio,sync and blanking signal grounds together
or it wont work on some TVs.

I'm not much of an engineer or something, so I barely know what you're talking about    

Does a digital RGB cable provide better quality a normal one?
I thought the digital A/V out of the Gamecube was only for connecting to monitors, can it also be used with tv's SCART (RGB)?

[Shadow_Zero]

You seem a bit confused about the advantages of RGB over S-Video.  Is it better?  Yes.  Is it worth it?  That's up to you.

The capacitors are indeed the problem, and by bypassing them you will make the cable work on your PAL SNES (but not a SNESjr).  They're the little cylindrical bits inside the SCART connector, cut them out and connect the two wires together.  I'm wondering though why you don't just buy a SNES RGB cable - hacking the caps off the GC one will render it incompatible with your GC.  The PAL N64 does not do RGB.  There is apparently an mod by a german company for $70, but no one cares enough to pay for it, it seems.

As for the Q, the cable they sell gives you RGB.  Whether it's worth it for you is entirely up to you.

I see the cylinders, but how exactly do I connect the two wires after I cut it off?

The SNES RGB cable for PAL systems seems to be a rarity. I don't know where to find one. But it doesn't matter much since I have a Q, so I don't need the RGB cable for a GC.

For a modified NTSC N64, do the caps also have to be removed or are GC RGB cables just fine?

[Guest_GREATFUNKY]

VERY IMPORTANT NEWS ABOUT THE PAL N64 RGB MOD!!!!

I wanted like everyone who knows the famous mod ,
the RGB signal on my French N64 ... of course when you say "PAL N64"
everybody says :"IMPOSSIBLE".  
Everybody is wrong : Pal N64 support RGB mod and it's
EXACTLY the same mod as for NTSC.

This morning i was thinking i'm stupid to do that ,
i know the result but i opened my pal n64 and can i believe what i see? the famous VDC chip! ,
maybe a chance? i try the rgb mod and ...it worked  like every N64 RGB mod (with dark colors)

i have read somewhere that last NTSC N64 don't support RGB mod and my pal N64 is an old model.  
in fact EVERY old N64 have a RGB support and every last model don't support it.
Maybe the first guy who has tried the rgb mod on a pal system had a last model and he has thinking that pal model don't support the mod?

Today you can be sure PAL N64 support RGB mod Too,  really it's not a fake!!

So : VDC-NUSBU9801F chip = old N64 support RGB
    DENC-NUSRS5C282 chip = last N64 don't support

Here is some pictures of my N64 PCB:
http://membres.lycos.fr/greatfunky/hpbimg/.../VDC%20chip.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/greatfunky/hpbimg/PalPCB.jpg

And here my serials: (look at the model number:NUS-001 certainly the first pal series)

http://membres.lycos.fr/greatfunky/hpbimg/serial.jpg

now everybody can forget everything what they knows about the RGB on PAL N64.
And this afternoon I have just made the color booster mod find on this forum and it works perfectly with sharp picture

It could be now interesting to find serial numbers before which model is RGB or not

                                             GREATFUNKY

[NFG]

That's excellent news, thanks very much for letting us know.

[Limbs a Flyin']

hang on a minute, thats a French "NUS-001(FRA)" n64, not a pal "NUS-001(EUR)" n64 - this French machine is a different model than the standard PAL machines (the Australian/NZ nes/snes's have AUS as part of the model number, but have EUR on the N64's so its not just my part of the world)

if France is a Secam country, then do the n64's there realy output pal or infact secam? ive tried the rgb mod, worked on a ntsc system as expected, but not on a pal one..  so i guess if you want to play pal games in rgb people should track down a Secam system?

maybe the secam systems was originaly capable giving out rgb like the ntsc systems, but they decided not to connect it to the AV port for what ever reason..  

[Guest_GREATFUNKY]

this could be right because in France TV emissions are retransmitted in secam but everybody here says "Pal" because all TV  here can read PAL and SECAM signals so my N64 could send a  pal or secam signal , really i don't know!! but i play with Pal games for sure > i look at one of my cartridges :NUS-006(EUR).
An other very good thing for me now with RGB : Most of Pal games are in 50htz with black border and with my doctor V64 i can play NTSC games in 60HTz in full screen but with the original video output , the colors flicker , not now in RGB !!

>.. so i guess if you want to play pal games in rgb people should track down a Secam system?

If other  PAL tv in the world can read secam too like in France ..yes it could be a good idea  

[Darklegion]

I'd say the france console has rgb support because,I don't think the n64 had secam support....and so it would not work on older tvs that did not support pal but did support scart/rgb.This was even more often true on older consoles such as the sms2(the cut down version of the sms) which had av/rgb support removed in most european/american countries,and only standard rf was used...but in france only rgb was supported,and standard rf was removed.I think the french nes supports rgb too,but I'm probably wrong on this.In any case i'd say its only french and ntsc n64's that support rgb not pal ones unfortunately....Id be very happy to be proven wrong though

[Limbs a Flyin']

i remember someone mentioned that the french n64 did indeed give a composite video signal out but no idea if its pal or secam etc.. if you go hunting for pictures of french machines (i dont know, go look at ebay.fr or something) it seems they come with the stock AV cable plus an AV->scart plug. the nes there does indeed have a scart plug, but is the rgb anygood? does it still have the funny effect where the nes cant draw vertical lines cleanly (is this just pal machines or an inherant feature" of the nes video chip design?)

i know all about the sms2 as it was the best selling 8bit machine in this little part of the world; i can even still rent SMS games from my local corner dairy (conveniance store) - but they are possibly the last store in the country still doing this.. i guess they havent noticed that nobody has even looked at them for the last 7 or 8 or so years, let alone 2nd hand sellers.. oops kinda trailed off there

[GREATFUNKY]

After informations taken my French N64 is PAL not Secam,  only TV emissions are transmitted in secam .
Of course all French TV read PAL so why would Nintendo build a different output system in "Secam standard" ?
About the scart plug adaptor : it's only for people who have only a scart plug on their TV! ( scart plug wouldn't say automatically RGB)

[Shadow_Zero]

this could be right because in France TV emissions are retransmitted in secam but everybody here says "Pal" because all TV  here can read PAL and SECAM signals so my N64 could send a  pal or secam signal , really i don't know!! but i play with Pal games for sure > i look at one of my cartridges :NUS-006(EUR).
An other very good thing for me now with RGB : Most of Pal games are in 50htz with black border and with my doctor V64 i can play NTSC games in 60HTz in full screen but with the original video output , the colors flicker , not now in RGB !!

>.. so i guess if you want to play pal games in rgb people should track down a Secam system?

If other  PAL tv in the world can read secam too like in France ..yes it could be a good idea

What's this "Doctor V64" thing and how does it let you play 60hz. and full screen?
And is this only for NTSC games or also PAL games?

And is this definite now? EUR version doesn't have RGB support and FR version has?

[GREATFUNKY]

Doctor V64 is a copier for the N64 , with that you can play roms directly on your N64 without cartridges.
For more informations about it , ask here : http://forums.cherryroms.com/viewforum.php?f=2

I can play with doctor V64 NTSC & PAL games on my N64,  PAL games(not all) are in 50htz black border , NTSC games are in 60 Htz full screen ...

For RGB support really i don't know , but the best way is to open and see the chip inside . Since my discovery , nothing is sure now ... :huh:  

[gaz]

ok, i tried the rgb mod on my pal n64 today and guess what - it did NOT work. the video chip is the denc-nus one, but it is not a later model console as it has 1996 printed on it...

[Supachikn]

I recently purchased a Nintendo 64 from a pawn shop here in Australia (PAL ). It's one of the 'special' 64s with the official transparent orange chassis. The model number is NUS-001(EUR), also on the sticker on the underside is NUS-AUS-1. The copyright year on the main pcb is 2000, and the designation on the video chip (U1 on the pcb) is MAV-NUS RS5C382 9MS 72. It would appear that this is a very late model 64, but I will try to perform the RGB mod and I will report back with my findings. Wish me luck.

[Shadow_Zero]

I recently purchased a Nintendo 64 from a pawn shop here in Australia (PAL ). It's one of the 'special' 64s with the official transparent orange chassis. The model number is NUS-001(EUR), also on the sticker on the underside is NUS-AUS-1. The copyright year on the main pcb is 2000, and the designation on the video chip (U1 on the pcb) is MAV-NUS RS5C382 9MS 72. It would appear that this is a very late model 64, but I will try to perform the RGB mod and I will report back with my findings. Wish me luck.

Any luck yet?  

What I'm wondering, what is the actual improvement of SNES RGB over composite?
I tried to find differences, but the only difference I can notice is that the colours are more clear (maybe too clear even).
I can't detect a sharper image or anything...
(then again, I don't see vibrant colours with composite as with the N64 and GC...)

[Vertigo]

What I'm wondering, what is the actual improvement of SNES RGB over composite?
I tried to find differences, but the only difference I can notice is that the colours are more clear (maybe too clear even).
I can't detect a sharper image or anything...
(then again, I don't see vibrant colours with composite as with the N64 and GC...)

Are you serious?
Really?
Try taking a look at the edges of something red against a contrasting background like black. See how it's all wibbly and shimmery? Now look at it again in RGB mode.
You're not likely to ever go back to composite/RF.

[Shadow_Zero]

Red on black background eh?
I'll try that.
I checked with Donkey Kong Country, but as I said, I couldn't notice the wibbly and shimmery screen as with, for example, Zelda on the N64 and GC.

[Shadow_Zero]

I have noticed that SCART 1 produces far better RGB than SCART 2.
I can see the difference in colour between composite and RGB, but without the caps in the RGB cable the colour is too bright!
How can I fix that?

[jamess]

SCART 2 probably won't support RGB.  Typically, with TVs that have two SCART sockets, SCART 1 will do RGB and composite and SCART 2 will do svideo and composite (RGB and svideo share a pin, so a single SCART socket can't easily support both).  So, if you plug an RGB device into SCART socket 2, you're just seeing a composite picture.

I've removed the capacitors from a GC SCART lead myself, and I agree that the image is overly bright.  I've never managed to find an original SNES RGB SCART lead to have a look at, but I'm guessing there should be some resistors in there on the RGB lines.  Anybody know for sure?

[Shadow_Zero]

I asked Lan-Kwei if they could fix a PAL SNES RGB cable. Michael is looking into it  

I got an original SNES RGB cable here which claims to work on a Famicom as well as a US and EU SNES.
Well, I never got it to work on my PAL SNES I can tell you...
The friend I got it from said he never got it to work on his eithers, but he tested it on a US SNES before he bought it back in the days and that worked.
Weird...

[jamess]

I had a bit more of a play around with this today (modding a GC RGB SCART lead to work on a PAL SNES).  I wasn't able to find much info on the PAL SNES video output on the net, so I've no idea how "correct" this solution is, but removing the three capacitors on the R, G and B lines and sticking in three 33ohm resistors in their place seems to do the job.  Doing that, then switching between the RGB and composite signals shows the images to be pretty much the same in terms of brightness.

[Yonder]

I've been asking around, and i bought two different snes rgb cables. None of them said anything about countrycodes. Anyway I have a PAL snes and use the 60/50Hz output..(which doesnt seem to matter anyway), and i can't get any output at all.. Right the moment i plug the cable i get picture, but it quickly fades away to a completely black screen. Same for both cables. If i turn the RGB function off ( i can do that on my tv) I get picture. I also bought two cables for my Dreamcast, and none of them gives a picture either, only sound. Doesnt it output RGB?

[hellbelly]

A lot of places sell Cube cables, saying that they will work on a SNES - unaware of the necessity to remove the capacitors if the cable is being used on a PAL snes.

As for you DC cables, I think there were a batch of them wired up incorrectly, which caused some grief with RGB.  I can't remember what the problem was though, maybe something wrong with the signal going to pin 16, it should be going through a resistor, and sometimes if that resistor is missed out, you get a blank screen (i think, i'm not 100% sure).  The DC has one of the best RGB pictures available.

Pete

[Yonder]

Capacitors in the snes scart? I've tried to search for info, but I haven't found anything about this.. could u tell me more?

And about the DC scart, I bought two different rgb cables from lik-sang, and none of them would work because of incorrect wiring? hmm

[hellbelly]

I thought this whole thread started about the necessity to remove those capacitors?

Anyway, open the scart plug up, look at pins 15, 11, 7, notice the capacitors attached to them, they are no good for pal snes's.  The best way to remove then is to use a soldering iron to remove the cap from the scart pin, then remove the wire from the cap and solder it to the pin, repeat for all three pins.  I have heard of people just twisting the legs of the capacitor together though, so it gets bypassed that way, I haven't tried this, no doubt it will work.

Some people say the colours are too bright, so they add a resistor (33ohm was mentioned somewhere).

I haven't tried a dc lead from lik-sang, but it's probably the same as the ones from play-asia which work okay for me.  So I'm a bit stumped.  I would have to open it up anyway if it didn't work  

Pete

[Yonder]

Haha, sorry I must really be blind..
However I just cut those capasitors, and wham! Crisp picture, finally. No need for 33 Ohm caps. Ok, only DC left now.

[Dr.Wily]

I am french and the european (and french) console are NOT SECAM.

All console in europe are PAL. N64, NES, Megadrive and other are only PAL or RGB output. The compsite signal (not RGB) is only a PAL signal.

For exemple Gamecube have RGB suport with GC RGB cable or SNES RGB cable. But US and Jap GC are not RGB out.

Plug your PAL N64 on a TV capture card and look the signal, it a PAL (PAL B) signal.

[Shadow_Zero]

Haha, sorry I must really be blind..
However I just cut those capasitors, and wham! Crisp picture, finally. No need for 33 Ohm caps. Ok, only DC left now.

Perhaps you're color blind  
What RGB cable did you use?
Did you compare the picture with composite?
A Gamecube RGB cable without caps on a SNES produces an overly bright image, that's just the way it is   lol

On top of that, with Secret of Mana my screen begins to scroll when there are a lot of flashy effects. What can this be?

[Hojo_Norem]

About the wiring on DC RGB leads,  there are two pins in the connector, one is labeled composite, and the other is composit sync for the vga mode.  When the DC goes into RGB (not vga) it switched off the composite line and outputs onj the comp sync line instead.  Anyway I found the pinout for the DC AV port a while ago and you may find it usefull. (see attached)

[Yonder]

Ok, thanks guys.
Well my snes rgb cable really outputs correct colors and brightness, I did compare it with my composite. The colors are a just a little sharper with rgb, but I firgured that was naturally since it was rgb. I use a cheap noname snes rgb cable from lik-sang.

[Schweino]

I found a shop that claims to have PAL snes RGB leads. I have ordered a sample, and I will keep you posted. If it truly are snes RGB leads I will post pictures of the inners and paste the shop's details here so you all can enjoy the crisp snes RGB signals from a pal console too.

[Martin]

I found a shop that claims to have PAL snes RGB leads. I have ordered a sample, and I will keep you posted. If it truly are snes RGB leads I will post pictures of the inners and paste the shop's details here so you all can enjoy the crisp snes RGB signals from a pal console too.

There are SNES RGB leads in PAL areas,
My local EB GAMES shop used to have them.
Was this Shop Raven Games?
Video Games Centre?
Because both have true RGB Scart leads for SNES.

[Schweino]

No. it's a small UK webshop located in the UK. He sells em for 8 quid each. I didn't know other shops are still selling em, I have had a hard time finding one.

Just took a look at the 2 shops you mentioned, man thay have some cool stuf. They are a *bit* overpriced tho...

[Martin]

Yeah.
Im not too sure if video Game centre still stocks RGB leads.. but Raven definatly does.
Have you looked at the prices for their Neo GEo Games? That's insane.
And I am not paying �60 for the DC version of Ikaruga :blink:

[Guest]

I found a shop that claims to have PAL snes RGB leads. I have ordered a sample, and I will keep you posted. If it truly are snes RGB leads I will post pictures of the inners and paste the shop's details here so you all can enjoy the crisp snes RGB signals from a pal console too.

Received em today and it are NTSC RGB cables... aaaaargh, why can't shop owners just understand what they are selling?

[Schweino]

^^^^
Errr, that was me  

[Schweino]

Is it possible by the way that Rev2 of the snes dos support the NTSC rgb cables? The shop owner told me he has tested the leads with his PAL snes and it works allright. He also sold more of them and didn't get complaints before.