SCART to Y-U-V: Test results

[eastbayarb]

I know there are a few threads about this subject, but I wanted to share my experiences with this product after testing it out. Here is my testing setup:

1. MODEL CVS287 SCART TO YUV COMPONENT CONVERTER (bought on ebay for $44.95+$6.95 shipping - USA seller who shipped very fast!
2. Sprint AC Adaptor Model AEC-N3512I (for use with the above)
3. Philips 32" CRT monitor with composite, S-Video Component Video (480i only)

The SCART to YUV Component Converter came with a Euro style 12V adapter, but had the long, round ended plugs. I went and used an adapter so those plugs would fit into a standard rectangle style USA power socket. I first tested SNES and Jaguar, and both systems displayed, but the picture kept on rolling. I then tested it with a Radio Shack 12V adapter (yes, with positive polarity) and I got a picture, but there were some faint, wavy lines. It was only until I tried the Sprint AC Adaptor (mentioned above) that I had from an old cell phone that I got a great picture. Here are the systems I tested including results:

1. NES - works/looks great (faint vertical lines, but even on my RGB monitor, this happens, and isn't very noticeable unless you are close and really look for it)
2. SNES - works/looks great
3. N64 - works/looks great (at first, the colors were weird, but a few seconds after turning the system on, it went away and looked normal)
4. Sega Saturn - works/looks great
5. Sega Genesis (Sega CDX) - works/looks great
6. Sega Master System (Power base converter) - works/looks great
7. PC Engine Duo-R - works/looks great
8. Sony Playstation (PSX/PSone) - works/looks great
9. Atari Jaguar - works/looks great
10. Neo Geo MVS (MV-IF 1-slot with AES style RGB connector) - works/looks great

Though  I have an XBOX and PS2 SCART cable, I didn't test these since they obviously have component video cables availible. The only system I didn't test with was 3DO, since I am waiting for it to arrive from acem77 who RGB modded it for me. I will report results on that when I can.

CONCLUSION: I am REALLY satisfied with the results. The Colors and nice and vibrant, and some systems really benefit from it considerably (SNES, and Neo Geo are good examples). Though a pure RGB monitor is best, this is a great alternative since RGB monitors are hard to find, heavy, large, and expensive in some cases.

RECOMENDATIONS: I would really recomend a good 12V power supply (as stated in other threads). The one I used (listed above) works perfectly, but perhaps a radio shack 12V universal would work too. Also, use good quality component video cables (as stated in another thread, cheap cables can yield poor results).

CONS: There really are only a few minor cons with this setup:

1. Most systems don't display in full screen. I think it's because each system uses a different resolution, and there are black boarders around the game screen. Not a huge problem, but since you can't adjust the screen size, may be a problem for some people.

2. Every system I tried it with has a strange problem with the right side of the screen. If you look here (SNES):

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/4624/scarttoyuvsnesjm7.jpg

on the right side of the screen, you can see the top and bottom bends a bit. This has nothing to do with the fact that my test TV set isn't a flat screen (both sides of the screen are round because of the tube). Again, not a huge problem, but may bother some people.

3. I haven't tried this out with my projector, nor with my LCD TV screen, and I hear it may or may not work. I will test later and post results. I will also try on my flat screen CRT set later on.

4. The obvious one is this box doesn't have audio outputs. Probably an easy fix for people that can just open this box up and add L/R stereo RCA jacks.

Comments, questions, suggestions? Was wondering if anyone had a tutorial for adding L/R stereo RCA jacks.

[eastbayarb]

UPDATE:

I tested out my NES and Neo Geo MVS with this adapter, which I hooked up to my 1080p video projector (Panasonic PT-AE1000U) and they both worked great!

[duo_r]

nice! So NES to Scart actually improves the signal? The issue I see here is the signal will only be as good as the source (composite) and unless the TV had a poor upscaler, it shouldn't change the quality.

How does a NES Scart work, I have never seen one?

[eastbayarb]

In the case of NES, my NES has been modified to output RGB, and that is way better quality than composite. acem77 did the mod for me as well as create a custom db9 to SCART cable, since I use a 4-way SCART switcher (which outputs to a VGA connector).

[duo_r]

How much did the mod cost? And which model nes do u have? Isn't there an issue the colors being way off?

[eastbayarb]

The NES mod first required me to get a Playchoice 10 PPU on my own (was about $80 on ebay), I then sent the NES (it's the old Toaster style) to acem77 and he charged me $235 shipped which included the labor, custom cable (he usually uses a db9 connector for the RGB video/audio, but he made a custom db9 to SCART cable), and PowerPak compatibility. He also added stereo adjustment knobs.

I have no problems with color or anything with my mod and I am very pleased with it.

[duo_r]

Wow that is a ton of cash. Unless you absolutely wanted a US NES, I think the Famicom Titler would have been around the same cost but with RGB built in. I want to RGB my NES, but not willing to fork over that much for it. U must be balling it up! 

[Fudoh]

Nice review, thanks !

I'd find the results with a PS2 especially interesting though since it would provide you with direct comparability as you can switch between natice YCbCr directly from the PS2 and RGBs run through the converter.

[eastbayarb]

Nice review, thanks !

I'd find the results with a PS2 especially interesting though since it would provide you with direct comparability as you can switch between natice YCbCr directly from the PS2 and RGBs run through the converter.

The point of my testing is for systems that don't have the native capability to use component video, but have pure RGB capability. Now if I had a TV with both component video input and RGB input then that would be a true comparison of quality.

[duo_r]

at some point I will try this test

Nice review, thanks !

I'd find the results with a PS2 especially interesting though since it would provide you with direct comparability as you can switch between natice YCbCr directly from the PS2 and RGBs run through the converter.

[eastbayarb]

*UPDATE*

Got my RGB modded 3DO from acem77 - works great with this adaptor!

[duo_r]

question - how did you get your MVS to work with this box? If you have the same Atlona styled RGB to YUV converter that I have, the box requires composite video for sync. As far as I know MVS doesn't natively have composite video. Can you point me in the right direction because I am considering consolizing MVS, I may end up getting a Neobitz, but I would like to be able to use my current encoder.

[Midori]

While the MVS doesn't output composite video it does output composite sync which does the job just as good, if not even better, as composite video. Mostly devices only strips C sync from C video anyway som inputing C sync directly just saves the encoder the trouble.

[duo_r]

that is good news! On my Saturn I think I hooked up to C-sync and i got a picture. The colors looked a little funny. However u think an MVS would look good with this box?

[Midori]

It should look good, can't guarantee that though since I havn't tested it myself :-) But it should look good.

[RGB32E]

I just received my Kramer FC-14 a couple of hours ago.  It works flawlessly!  It's actually hard to tell the difference between RGB and component using this converter!  Review to come!

The CSY-2100 is garbage by comparison... since it "bleeds" color like s-video.... the Kramer does not!

[Fudoh]

Nice to  hear ! I remember our discussion on the AVS board in the summer last year. What did you pay for your FC-14 ?

[RGB32E]

Two billls.... here are some fun pix taken with my brand new DSi that I got last night! 

[xportz]

Is there any video lag introduced into the system when using this method?  I'm really trying to stay away from lag as it's a nightmare on my plasma.

Thanks for the great info so far!

[Endymion]

What plasma do you have that has lag?

[xportz]

All plasmas and LCDs have lag when upscaling non-HD content.  This is because of the de-interlacing and scaling algorithms involved.  Take a look at these pages for more details:

http://www.hdtvarcade.com/hdtvforum/index.php?showtopic=4536&st=0

http://hdtvlag.googlepages.com/

It makes any games that require precise timing almost impossible to play well.  Because there's processing involved in converting RGB to YUV, I was wondering if it was enough to cause lag.

BTW, I have a Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD. 

[viletim]

xportz,

RGB -> YUV is very quick, just a some addition/subtraction. The delay is negligible compared to real digital processing shuch as scaling, zooming, etc

[Endymion]

All plasmas and LCDs have lag when upscaling non-HD content.  This is because of the de-interlacing and scaling algorithms involved.  Take a look at these pages for more details:

I'm sorry to differ with you, but my plasmas don't, they're 8th and 9th generation Panasonics, and believe me, this is the very sort of thing I'm very sensitive to, logging quite a bit of Guitar Hero on each. (I was the only person I knew who was bitching and griping the first time I "upscaled" a PS2 game on my PS3, for instance.) To put it simply, some HDTVs have great scalers. Some (or most, it would seem) have not so great or even shitty ones, LCDs with their tendency toward drawing lag are a much worse combination with this.

http://www.hdtvarcade.com/hdtvforum/index.php?showtopic=4536&st=0

http://hdtvlag.googlepages.com/

It makes any games that require precise timing almost impossible to play well.  Because there's processing involved in converting RGB to YUV, I was wondering if it was enough to cause lag.

I've read fubarduck's faq before. It has a lot of good information in there but some of what he relies on as fact aren't necessarily so, and I don't agree with all of his conclusions either. Not all upscaling chips are going to lag and the screen absolutely does play a role in any lag that manifests as you see it, he's not really accounting for that here. Notice how he glosses over it with XRGB's mention. Some scalers are great, and others just aren't, some screens are naturally laggy, and others aren't. You can have combinations of these, some which are superb, others less so, and some intolerable, it's a melange of circumstances that you may not always have control over.

BTW, I have a Pioneer Kuro Elite Pro-111FD.

For the record you are the first person that I've ever seen complain about lag with a plasma--a high end one no less. By the way, did you notice there is not a single plasma TV tested at your second link there? Every set there is an LCD. I would seriously recommend tweaking your setup somehow.

[cgm]

For the record you are the first person that I've ever seen complain about lag with a plasma--a high end one no less. By the way, did you notice there is not a single plasma TV tested at your second link there? Every set there is an LCD. I would seriously recommend tweaking your setup somehow.

Lagging is an issue with some plasmas, particularly 1080p models (likely because they have to upscale to more pixels), just do a search over at AVSForums. Panasonic and others include a "game" mode in their newer consumer plasma models to reduce the lag to barely noticeable.

[RGB32E]

For the record you are the first person that I've ever seen complain about lag with a plasma--a high end one no less. By the way, did you notice there is not a single plasma TV tested at your second link there? Every set there is an LCD. I would seriously recommend tweaking your setup somehow.

Lagging is an issue with some plasmas, particularly 1080p models (likely because they have to upscale to more pixels), just do a search over at AVSForums. Panasonic and others include a "game" mode in their newer consumer plasma models to reduce the lag to barely noticeable.

Endymion, you are so defensive about your plasmas! 

Anyways...

XPortz,

This post on AVSForum should be interesting for you (non-elite Pioneer compared).  Lag does exist on all HDTVs, even if one "does not notice it"
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13668380#post13668380

Enjoy! 

[Jon8RFC]

I have a Keene APTUS1 and I get some noise (not silk-screen effect...actual video noise) on my tv using my SNES.  TV is a Sony KDS-50A2000.  I don't have the power supply for my N64, so I can't test it and the SNES might not be a proper test because of its power supply.  I used the power supply from my SNES2 on my SNES and some games won't play on it, so I'm not sure if my SNES (bought from ebay) is bad or if the power supply differs in amperage, because the voltage is the same for the two consoles.  I had the SNES and APTUS1 power connected to an AC noise isolator, and tried three different SCART cables.  I guess I'll get some couplers and not even use the component cables between the APTUS1 and my tv, because I already have a few feet of cabling with the SCART cable between the console and APTUS1.

Has anyone else had experience with the APTUS1 or the other Keene RGB-component converters?  Is this typical of Keene or these converters in general?  If I can get my hands on a camera, I'll take some pictures.  It's not "horrible" by normal standards, but by my/our standards, it's pretty nasty.  With the console powered off and cables disconnected, the noise is blatantly worse, so I'm quite certain it's exclusively the APTUS1 and not the console or cabling...but it wouldn't hurt to reduce excess cabling.

[RGB32E]

I have a Keene APTUS1 and I get some noise (not silk-screen effect...actual video noise) on my tv using my SNES.  TV is a Sony KDS-50A2000.  I don't have the power supply for my N64, so I can't test it and the SNES might not be a proper test because of its power supply.  I used the power supply from my SNES2 on my SNES and some games won't play on it, so I'm not sure if my SNES (bought from ebay) is bad or if the power supply differs in amperage, because the voltage is the same for the two consoles.  I had the SNES and APTUS1 power connected to an AC noise isolator, and tried three different SCART cables.  I guess I'll get some couplers and not even use the component cables between the APTUS1 and my tv, because I already have a few feet of cabling with the SCART cable between the console and APTUS1.

Has anyone else had experience with the APTUS1 or the other Keene RGB-component converters?  Is this typical of Keene or these converters in general?  If I can get my hands on a camera, I'll take some pictures.  It's not "horrible" by normal standards, but by my/our standards, it's pretty nasty.  With the console powered off and cables disconnected, the noise is blatantly worse, so I'm quite certain it's exclusively the APTUS1 and not the console or cabling...but it wouldn't hurt to reduce excess cabling.

The SNES ac adapters should work just fine on any revision of SNES (I've swapped.. no difference).  The Keene unit looks to be a rebadge of the CSY-2100 or CVS-287, so perhaps getting a better quality AC adapter for the Keene unit is likely to improve its performance (less noise).  Have you tried any other consoles with the Keene unit?

Edit:
Looks like the Keene unit runs off of 12VDC.  Just make sure that you don't use a "universal" AC adapter from radio shack.  Any modern PC power supply should give you good quality power... Idea is:
-Get an ATX extender cable
-Connect a switch on the two leads that control off/on
-Connect +12VDC and GND to the correct size plug and polarity for your Keene

and power the unit that way.  Any recent power supply should have plenty of noise filtration.  There are many other options, this is just one.

[Jon8RFC]

Works just fine with that adapter, thanks for the confirmation =]  It turns out that the pins on my SNES must be bent from lots of use, because if I hold the cartridge at a sharp angle everything works fine.  I got rid of lots of the noise with some new cables--it turns out that monoprice.com really does have quality stuff at bargain prices.  I grabbed a 1.5foot length of RG6 (yes, RG6 no RG59!!) solid copper (not copper-clad aluminum like most RG6) cables and that cleaned up a whole bunch of the noise, and all that's left is minimal noise typical of an analog connection.  I'm guessing they have much better shielding, or may even be quad-shielded, but I can't tell because there's a good amount of dielectric insulation (another great plus!) even after I unscrew the connector.  The s-video sharpness quality trumps this component connection, unfortunately.  Hopefully my N64 can better benefit from it, or else I'll have to hunt down some badass converter.

[mvsfan]

in that custom scart cable, what parts were added to switch the scart to yuv box on? im thinking that this is my problem with my rgb nes. i cant get it to sync. but i also didnt build any scart signals into it other than rgbcg.

could you take a look at this cable and see if their are any switching signals in it? thanks.