Experiences with XRGB2+

[ozpass]

I decided to purchase Micomsoft's XRGB2 Plus, primarily due to reports I read here and on atarilabs (including the old forums).

I know the topic's been done to death but I thought I'd write my experiences here, on the offchance they're useful or of interest to anybody.

I bought the unit from Lik Sang, and this was the first time that I had purchased anything from them (or from Hong Kong, for that matter).  They handled my order very professionally despite thinking my address was incomplete because I hadn't selected a "state".  I informed them that UK residents don't specify a state, and they dispatched the unit.  I opted for the UPS "express" delivery.  The total for the unit and shipping came to a little over �120.  I was able to track the unit via both Lik Sang's website and UPS's own site.  They shipped on 31/12/2003 and it arrived earlier today, 2/1/2004.  Absolutely no complaints there, then- 3 days delivery, exactly as it "said on the tin"!  I was, however, stung for �31 by the UPS delivery man.  This accounted for �20 ish in import duty and an additional �10 handling fee for UPS themselves.  I wasn't especially delighted with this, but I'm assuming it's normal procedure.  Does anybody know differently?

My requirement for the upscan convertor is somewhat unusual.  I've managed to get my hands on a pristine 34" Hantarex CT34EV2.  When I first obtained it, I had thought that it would be like other Hantarex arcade monitors, i.e. accepting an input at 15 Khz.  This one is a little odd though.  It's designed for presentations and inclusion in video monitor walls so it has a VGA input, and expects a VGA signal too in the 31-38 Khz range.  Hence my requirement for the upscan convertor.

I had to manufacture a SCART convertor, too, so that I could use the Japanese RGB input on the XRGB2+.  A quick search through the old forums found all the information that's required to accomplish this.  If anybody's interested, I got the info necessary from these gamesx/atarilabs sources:

This forum post contains a complete pin/pin conversion.

Japanese RGB Pinout here

Euro SCART Pinout here

In order to make the convertor, I got one of those cheapo 5 into 1 scart splitters, like this.

This made life particularly easy, as the cable coming off it connects to a simple PCB internally.  The PCB has multiple points for resoldering the wires, and they're well numbered at both ends.  I can recommend it as a way of making a convertor to anybody else.  Into this adapter I plug the following equipment outputting RGB: XBox, Saturn, PS1, Megadrive and a Freeview set-top-box.  Using other ports on the XRGB2+ I have plugged my Dreamcast into the "through" port as it outputs VGA anyway.  Being the retro-freak I am, I also have a Laserdisc player which connects into the composite video port.

Quality is pretty impressive, especially since I tweaked the settings, as detailed here.  I do have a couple of concerns though, all related to the RGB input.  There are two faint (but noticeable) vertical lines down the middle of the screen.  Also, in bright areas of the picture there are diagonally scrolling lines (scrolling from top left to bottom right).  They are rolling at a constant rate.  These artefacts are not visible using the composite inputs.

All in all I can recommend this kit to other people, even with the �30 levied on delivery.  If anybody can suggest ways I can get rid of the imperfections in the picture I'd be extremely grateful.

[TuZhao]

Thank you very much, I'd like to buy one too, but I was waiting to hear some feedback from a PAL user before handing out the money
You don't have any problems feeding the XRGB2+ with a 50 Hz signal, do you? I thought it worked with 60 Hz signals only.
I'm going to buy a Cube and and XBox, and I'd like to know if I can use their component cables with the XRGB2+. Assuming that the unit displays correctly the 50 Hz RGB signal, it should also handle the 50 Hz component signal, right?
I could rewire a SCART cable, but I fear that a less-than-perfect soldering could worsen the signal quality, so losing the benefits of using RGB against component.

[ozpass]

It certainly handles 50hz PAL, but then I'd heard that it was 60hz PAL it had a problem with!  I'll check for you (with Project Gotham Racing) when I get home later, anyway.  As far as I'm aware, it processes component type RGB and SCART-plug supplied RGB in the exact same way internally, so I'm assuming it'll work as you require with your XBox and Gamecube.  If there's anything you'd like me to try with my own setup before you take the plunge and get your own, please feel free to ask.  

I was wondering myself if the imperfections I was seeing were a result of the soldered joints in my adapter, so I remade it from scratch with no discernible difference.  I then re-soldered another that I have to Euro-SCART specification and ran it through my television- the picture was crystal clear so I have faith in my soldering for the time being.

[TuZhao]

If you could put your hands on an XBox component cable, you could do a comparison between RGB and component quality. I know many people (like me) are wondering if there is much (if any) difference between the two. You could also check if the diagonal artifacts and vertical lines are still there. Most likely they will, I presume, because of the same port used for component and RGB.
A Gamecube with its D-Terminal cable would be useful to determine if the noise is coming from the XRGB2+'s RGB port or is caused by its internal circuitery - in that case it would be hard to get rid of it.

[ozpass]

I can confirm that the Japanese RGB port accepts 60Hz PAL, and the quality is SIGNIFICANTLY improved.  The artifacts are still visible though.  As a strange aside, the faint diagonal scrolling lines are moving from top right to bottom left today.  Weird.

I'll get my hands on a component cable for my Xbox, and I can then test Component in via RGB and also via the Japanese D socket (Micomsoft helpfully provide adapter cables for both).  I'm not expecting any difference in quality though, except the improvement inherent in cutting out my homemade adapter.

I'll report back when I've tried it.... Might even take a few photographs.

[TuZhao]

Many thanks! For now I'm already convinced to buy one in the near future
I'll wait your new experiences, so I will be able to make a couple of friends buy one each, too.
Micomsoft should pay you a percent on sales  

[ozpass]

No component cables yet, but here are some piccies with my homemade RGB SCART adapter:

[ozpass]

Another one:

[ozpass]

An extreme close-up:

[ozpass]

Watching TV (Hollyoaks!) through the XRGB2+ (RGB SCART output from a freeview adapter):

[TuZhao]

That monitor of yours is awesome! The screens look good. Assuming that the component singnal is, say, 10-15% worse than RGB, it would still shine compared to svideo.
I had a chance to see a component->VGA conversion with a $59 vga box with component input (bought from Lik-Sang for a friend of mine), and I wasn't impressed. But now I believe the cheap circuitry is to blame (grammar question: "is to blame" or "is to be blamed"?  :unsure: ). 59 bucks is really a bargain so the $179 XRGB2+ must provide a better quality for sure!

[Shin_kokoro]

I'm picking up  the exact same Hantarex data monitor from London very soon ,  a snip at �150   .


Also im in the same situation as yourself in purchasing the XRGB+ , which I was going to import from Japan .Although your link to the importer might save me a little bit of cash.

I'm going to use the monitor primarily for my sigma supergun , and therefore I have a question conerning the upscan..

Would a PCB with a medium resolution  sequel ( 24-25Khz) be upscanned to  31Khz and display correctly on the monitor?


Any help appreciated...

[Guest]

I'd like to have a definitive answer for you on that one, Shin_kokoro, but every last character of the X-RGB2+ manual is in Japanese (not unreasonable for a Japanese-only product!)

If I had to guess though, I'd say it's able to cope with the frequency of your PCB.  My understanding of how it works is that it has a kind of internal framebuffer which works at whatever frequency it's given.  It then samples this framebuffer at 31Khz resulting in an output signal of this frequency.

I can't even try it, however, as all my arcade boards are 15khz and I don't have a lovely convenient supergun to put them in.  The Hantarex weighs 70 Kg+ and the cabinets weigh something similar so never the twain shall meet I'm afraid :-(  All my friends are total weeds, and my brother is out of the country.  Make sure you have at least one beefy companion when you collect the monitor!

I think you'll be pleased with the Hantarex.  Mine had only had 40 minutes use when I got it, and it was a freebie too.  I might be able to get my hands on another, as well......

[ozpass]

Oops! That last post was mine.....

[Shin_kokoro]

Yeah the seller informed me the weight was slightly scary , and  therefore I decided  it would be easier to travel down and pick it up rather than  pay a lot to get it delivered.

I thought �150 was a bargain but seems you got the best deal.......    And if I had the room and was offered another for free I'd snap it up.Can imagine the pair would be perfect for some link up action ( Halo , VOOT, GT3 etc).

The model im actually getting is  CT EV/3 which seems to be the exact same as your one but under a difference model name    

Medium resolution isnt really a problem it was just  incase I  purchased some model 3 titles  such as  VF3 TB  and  Scud race ( modified DC Racingstick) etc.Although hooking a Naomi and  Atomiswave will be a lot easier as they have direct VGA ports.


Anyway looking forward to  getting the monitor.



Thanks for the reply..

[TuZhao]

Gosh, you lucky guys! How come you find all those Hantarex beauties! I want to go to England!
A Naomi board plugged into one of those must be awesome!

[ozpass]

I've managed to solve the problem with diagonal scrolling lines that I reported on earlier, and have discovered another shortcoming of the X-RGB2+

The scrolling effect is due to a poor earth connection.  I remedied it by connecting another device via the S-Video port (earthed via a nice gold shield on the plug).  Picture is noticeably crisper- in fact I would now describe it as flawless- I'm absolutely delighted. [N.B. the S-Video is ONLY providing the earth, input is still via RGB.]

I have discovered that the unit is very susceptible to electromagnetic radiation.  I hooked up my 5.1 surround amp and the picture was noticeably distorted and rolling.  Initially I thought this was due to my front speakers being unshielded, but by switching off various parts of the system it turned out to be the amp influencing the X-RGB2+ directly.  I moved it nearly a metre away beneath a shelf lined with tin foil and all was fine.

[Shin_kokoro]

Hi Ozpass......

concerning your Hantarex monitor, what resolution do you set your XRGB2+ at ?.

It seems the monitor I picked up  displays  1024 X 768 @ 43Khz and not the  47Khz needed. :unsure:

Does this sound familiar to you , or can your monitor handle the  1024 X 768 resolution.


Thanks in advance..

[Guest]

Mine displays 800X600 at 31 Khz i.e. it is a SVGA monitor rather than an XGA.

It won't sync at all to a 47 Khz signal, only signals in the 31-38 Khz range.

[ozpass]

Once again, the above post was me  :blink:

I use such a daft array of computers I never know which are logged in, set to receive cookies, whatever. D'oh!

[Shin_kokoro]

Thanks again for the reply.......

I did manage to get 1024 X 768 ( @43Khz )  on the monitor via the desktop PC , but the SVGA signal is good enough for the consoles.Just need to fart about with the setting for a while.. :rolleyes: