N64 Stick Converter PCB v3 / firmware v3.5 - PCBs available again (August 2017)

[dav3yb]

So i got one of mine together and put together.  the test rom shows a much nicer circle than the other ones i have. 

I can say this for sure though, these work a LOT better for smash brothers than the GC style ones out of the box.  When you try to do an up-tilt attack on the other ones, it registers too far too quick, which registers a jump instead.  These have a much nicer zone for doing up-tilt attacks. 

I still need to wire this one up to allow remote recalibration and extended range, but i was just too anxious to test out the joystick.  I got a bit worried after i turned it on and it didn't work at first, but i forgot about the calibration mode =P

these feel MUCH nicer in zelda too, a lot closer to the original.  super glad i was able to get in on V3 of these!

[Wxma]

Wow, I just started reading this thread and I am very interested in the PCB replacement. I suppose I'll have to wait for the next batch to get one, but is there any chance that the next batch includes a replacement for the restrictor gate so that the extended range is no longer needed? As much as I like the changes that the PCB provides, I feel that it's missing one last thing to have complete 1:1 accuracy with the original stick.

Otherwise, I suppose I can file the plastic myself so that the GC-style stick has the space required, but I'm not sure I can do that carefully enough.

[dav3yb]

Wow, I just started reading this thread and I am very interested in the PCB replacement. I suppose I'll have to wait for the next batch to get one, but is there any chance that the next batch includes a replacement for the restrictor gate so that the extended range is no longer needed? As much as I like the changes that the PCB provides, I feel that it's missing one last thing to have complete 1:1 accuracy with the original stick.

Otherwise, I suppose I can file the plastic myself so that the GC-style stick has the space required, but I'm not sure I can do that carefully enough.

I suspect that by the time you file down the restriction piece, you'll be close, or AT the limit of the potentiometer itself.  Or the edges of the plastic joystick cap will start to ride on the pcb.  The extended range works well.  I just tested it, and it does fine for golden eye.  The only real "issue" i've found, is that the plastic cap or the restrictor gate could vary the max range a bit of the joystick, so one side might reach a max distance of 80 vs 81 on the other side.  its usually quite minimal, but i've actually got some pictures of the test rom showing with the extended range off and on.

http://imgur.com/a/QbOv9

the top image is with extended range on, the bottom is off.  Overall, i dont think you'll need to modify anything.  Also, if you always want the extended range on, i think there is a way to just bridge a connection to force it always on. 

[andypandy]

I guess I'm too late to get hold of a few sets from the current batch? Just discovered this thread, and can't believe I missed the deadline by just a few days.. Any chance you'll be making another batch, Micro?

[wprpalmeida]

I guess I'm too late to get hold of a few sets from the current batch? Just discovered this thread, and can't believe I missed the deadline by just a few days.. Any chance you'll be making another batch, Micro?

I'm on the same boat bud.. Came a bit late to the party. Would also like to know if micro has ordered more PCBs in anticipation of people discovering this afterwards.

For those with the v3 already, was the aiming in GoldenEye improved from the last version? Also, is there any side effect to always using this Extended Mode (I believe Blast Corps would become problematic)?

Cheers!

[dav3yb]

I guess I'm too late to get hold of a few sets from the current batch? Just discovered this thread, and can't believe I missed the deadline by just a few days.. Any chance you'll be making another batch, Micro?

I'm on the same boat bud.. Came a bit late to the party. Would also like to know if micro has ordered more PCBs in anticipation of people discovering this afterwards.

For those with the v3 already, was the aiming in GoldenEye improved from the last version? Also, is there any side effect to always using this Extended Mode (I believe Blast Corps would become problematic)?

Cheers!

I could test out blast crops if i knew what to look for difference wise.  And I can say that golden eye is improved, at least over the stock gamecube style controllers.  I found these after the v2's were out of stock, so i had to wait for the v3's.  but the default sticks i had were decent, but way to sensitive to play goldeneye with.  these are much better and feel a lot more like the original controller joysticks. 

[micro]

Thanks for your impressions, dav3yb! 

Also, is there any side effect to always using this Extended Mode (I believe Blast Corps would become problematic)?

I don't think there would be a problem with Blast Corps, but using the extended range mode always makes the stick more sensitive than using the standard mode. So unless there's a problem with a specific game, I'd stick to normal mode.

I guess I'm too late to get hold of a few sets from the current batch? Just discovered this thread, and can't believe I missed the deadline by just a few days.. Any chance you'll be making another batch, Micro?

Although we're past the dead line and I've already ordered the PCB's, there are still a couple of PCB sets available. Just send me an email with your address and amount of PCB sets you need.  (The email link is striked but it should work anyways)

[wprpalmeida]

Also, is there any side effect to always using this Extended Mode (I believe Blast Corps would become problematic)?

I don't think there would be a problem with Blast Corps, but using the extended range mode always makes the stick more sensitive than using the standard mode. So unless there's a problem with a specific game, I'd stick to normal mode.

Sent you an email about the PCBs

Also, in Blast Corps the character won't move at all if the thumbstick replacement exceeds a certain range

[dav3yb]

Also, is there any side effect to always using this Extended Mode (I believe Blast Corps would become problematic)?

I don't think there would be a problem with Blast Corps, but using the extended range mode always makes the stick more sensitive than using the standard mode. So unless there's a problem with a specific game, I'd stick to normal mode.

Sent you an email about the PCBs

Also, in Blast Corps the character won't move at all if the thumbstick replacement exceeds a certain range

I just tested out some Blast Corps, and I didn't have any issues running around with the controller in default, or extended rage modes.  I tested it against one of my normal n64 controllers with a really good joystick, and it seems like the movement was the same.  The guy runs kind of runny in blast corps though, so i think any little goofy discrepancies i felt were just me not being used to it.  But overall, these seem to do just fine.

[Catastrophic]

Hello again Micro! I bought some your replacement PCBs some months ago(v2.1 I think) and I like them a lot, and I noticed that you recently released a v3. I'm thinking of flashing my older PCBs with your new firmware sometime in the future but I was wondering if there is really any difference between v2.1 and v3 for games other than Goldeneye and Perfect Dark?

[exile1921]

Sent you an email, just hope I'm not too late

[andrebrait]

Am I late? Would like to buy a couple of these, if possible...

[mannypace]

I would also like to order 4x PCBs when they next come available

[kronflux]

I'm also interested in 4 or so of them.

I'm also wondering - because the GC style joysticks have slightly limited range, has anyone shaved off some of the plastic to get it to be the right shape to produce the proper range? I'm thinking of using a dremel to get the shape identical to the stock joystick, but I'm wondering whether or not it would be actually beneficial.

[Gemquest]

Hello I would also like to order 4 PCB v3 if I'm not to late. I live in the US and would be willing to pay the shipping cost. Thanks

[y0da]

Hello.
I would like to order four N64 joystick PCBs.
Is that still possible? I know about the deadline but I just discovered your project.

Thank you for all your work. It seems amazing and I can't wait to try it.
Best regards.

[micro]

To the 4 or 5 guys above me: If I haven't replied to your emails, then you've been too late indeed. The good news is that right now there are a couple of the PCB sets available again. Use the new email address (see 1st post) to contact me if you're still interested.
Also, I had to increase the price of the leftover PCB sets slightly...

Hello again Micro! I bought some your replacement PCBs some months ago(v2.1 I think) and I like them a lot, and I noticed that you recently released a v3. I'm thinking of flashing my older PCBs with your new firmware sometime in the future but I was wondering if there is really any difference between v2.1 and v3 for games other than Goldeneye and Perfect Dark?

To be honest, I don't know if any other games that show a difference. Maybe Super Smash Brothers? IIRC there's a jumping test where you execute a diagonal with Yoshi to land on a building? Apparently if you can land on the building that means the stick's range is good enough to pull off the crazy moves, I don't know. . Well, when I tried it once back then, I couldn't even pass the test with genuine Nintendo analog stick in good condition, so I don't know how relevant that test really is. But I could imagine that with the extended range mode you could jump further.

[ours1011]

Got mines this morning, thanks micro !

But they are green and not red like in the first post, this won't look good inside of the joystick !! just kidding lol 

[Tsurugi_Takuma]

I'm trying to install this now in one of the six controllers I'm going to use this in. But I can't for the love of god reattach the plug to the controller PCB... Soon I'm going to break out the sledge hammer That is now officially the worst piece of shitty plastic on this god forsaken planet. Everything else with the installation was a breeze, except cleaning out all the gunk out of the controller hehe. 
F it, gonna go unpack my new tv and cool off! UHD for my N64 ;-)

Edit: Ohhh I see now. The idiots who made the replacement stick used a totally different plug than the original, that is so retarded that I'm speechless. They take the time to make a replacement stick, albeit totally useless, but the don't take the time to make it possible to install. Awesome...

Sorry for my rants...

Edit 2: Used a small screwdriver to lift the plug up from the PCB while pushing it in place...

Edit 3: Board works perfect for the 10+ games I've tried it with so far. Solid work Micro, thank you so much for this excellent contribution to the gaming community.

[y0da]

Hello guys.
I ordered 4 PCB and can't wait to try them 

Could you give me a link (or a few ones) to buy the Gamecube Style Joysticks?
I found some cheap ones on amazon.com but the shipping is more than 30 dollars to send them to europe...

[theo400]

I'm always late to the party with cool stuff like this!

Any chance you'll be doing another batch?

[Smeags]

yes i want in with one! i asked about a 3ds slider, in a pm. if you could help me with that id like that a lot. (if possible, there was a user by the name RDC who made it possible before, but i lost contact with him)..sadly, but he was someone i met from a different forums which shut down too.

[Informationator]

I just want to add my interest to the list and request that you please make another batch of these.  I suspect that the only reason more people aren't on here begging for another batch is because they don't even know it exists.  I'm not going to sick all of NintendoAge and Reddit GameCollecting on you since it looks like you want to make these in small quantities, but I suspect that if they knew your board existed you would have a much larger demand.  ...especially if someone got into the business of modding the new board/joysticks into controllers on the behalf of others.

People are hoarding N64 controllers and resorting to really lackluster solutions in hopes of having functioning controllers into the future when you have the perfect solution right here.  Your board is precisely what I've been looking for and it was surprisingly difficult to find this thread via Google.

Please make another batch!

[y0da]

Hello.

I just received my PCBs, thanks.

I also agree with the post above. Launch a crowd-funding campaign and make some communication.
I am sure you will succeed in no time.

Have a nice day

[Informationator]

Hello.

I just received my PCBs, thanks.

I also agree with the post above. Launch a crowd-funding campaign and make some communication.
I am sure you will succeed in no time.

Have a nice day

After reading your post it got me thinking about the feasibility / profitability of a KickStarter or something.  One selling SNES and Genesis component cables made over $40,000.

Looking at one big eBay store, it looks like they've sold over 1,200 replacement joysticks for $8.95.  They also have an Amazon storefront, so let's just say they've made similar sales there.  That's around $22,000 or €18,000 in gross revenue for a single vendor.

It's possible that if enough hype was generated and if the product were streamlined, that he could beat that, but it would need to be more accessible to the end-user:

1) Soldering everything is a problem for your typical consumer.  It would need to come prefabricated within the joystick.
2) If it needs to be prefabricated, then it should also probably come pre-calibrated and have a calibration switch that is accessible through the joystick box's plastic.  That's a lot of man-hours to fab it up, find a manufacturer, test, and calibrate, etc.
3) Extended range mode might need to be addressed, preferably by fabricating a modified joystick box that has a border more closely resembling the original's shape, making extended range mode unnecessary.  It could also just be stated that if you want this you'll have to solder a single wire from the PCB to the N64 controller board, which is much less intimidating than soldering the potentiometer on, etc.

As for marketing, I think a video would need to be made demonstrating why people should want this that directly compares it to the V2 gamecube-style joystick.  It would need to show the difference in sensitivity and demonstrate that you CAN do with this PCB what you CAN'T do with the standard V2 replacement joystick.

If Micro was willing to address the fabrication and marketing sides, he could stand to make a lot of money that people would gladly give him.  The question is...  How much of the market is untapped and how big of a market is out there?

If he ever went the KickStarter route we might be able to throw a sticky up on /r/gamecollecting to raise awareness since I'm one of the mods over there, but I haven't gotten to try the product yet so no promises

Very excited to try my one board out when it arrives.

[zaneiken]

I've been looking to replace my 4 v1 boards but I keep missing the boat on these new batches... 

[Chaps92]

Any new batches coming soon? I totally need to play Smash 64. 

[Junior]

 Hello everyone, Im from Brasil and after hours searching how to improve my N64 controller, I found this amazing forum and that amazing job made by Micro!( really thanks I loved it micro )

I want some PCB v3 too; new batches are coming ?

  Micro, was extremely hard to me find this.
I already knowed about the existence of something that improved the sensitive from the GC style thumbstick, but after months I found it!!

[Informationator]

Hello everyone, Im from Brasil and after hours searching how to improve my N64 controller, I found this amazing forum and that amazing job made by Micro!( really thanks I loved it micro )

I want some PCB v3 too; new batches are coming ?

  Micro, was extremely hard to me find this.
I already knowed about the existence of something that improved the sensitive from the GC style thumbstick, but after months I found it!!

Micro told me he needed a break when I PM'd him a while back, so I doubt he'd do another batch until late 2015 at the earliest.  ...but that's complete conjecture.  There are a lot of us who want to order a few, so you're not alone in hoping he'll make more

[Icyyou]

I love this project and I'm dying to get one to fix my favorite over sensitive controller, could you please contact me in some way when it's available again?

[hampster008]

Hey Micro,

I know you are not accepting orders right now, but I'm hoping that by posting my order on here now, that I may get an email when there is a response. I would like four of these adapters whenever you start making them in the (hopefully near) future.

Thank you Micro for helping us Nintendo Nerds keep our beloved games alive! 

[Link83]

Great work micro! I just had a few questions about the 'extended range mode' if you dont mind...

So I understand that the original N64 analog stick restrictor is more a square-ish octagon shape, rather than a true octagon like the GC style sticks (Not my pic):-


Heres a picture of a new original N64 analog sticks range taken with sanni's N64 controller test rom:-


The original N64 converter used 168 steps (Which I think was based on the up-down, left-right analog stick measurements?) which means if you use a replacement analog stick with an octagonal or circular restrictor you end up with these ranges:-

Red = Original N64 Restrictor
Blue = Octagonal Restrictor (GameCube/Wii Style)
Green = Circular Restrictor (PlayStation/Xbox Style)

This means you dont quite have the maximum range for the diagonals, which is the problem experienced by MockyLock with GoldenEye/Perfect Dark using v2:-
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5023.msg35647#msg35647

Does the 'extended range mode' try to modify the analog stick values into a more square-ish shape, or does it simply extend the range using the number of steps for the diagonal size, like this?:-

In which case the 'extended range mode' has the full range of an original N64 analog stick, but slightly more range in some directions than originally intended (Plus if you have a limited area of movement [Small restrictor] like some of the third party GC style analog sticks, then the stick could be too sensitive)

I'm also curious to know what the maximum number of steps is for the original diagonal ranges? I'm guessing around 190 steps? (13% increase) and would a value somewhere in between the two (Perhaps 180 steps) work for GoldenEye/Perfect Dark?

I just personally would prefer to have 'one mode' for all games - even if that means I have to compromise slightly with more range for some games than originally intended

[Informationator]

Interesting question, Link.  I'm also curious as to whether the joystick would calibrate properly if I carefully modified the octogonal gate to match that of the N64's gate.  With some careful measurements and markings and a file I imagine you could get very close to perfect.

Or...  If, the angles would be too severe with a 18mm and 20mm measurements, you could leave the cardinal directions at 16mm and carefully file the diagionals out to ~17.8mm, and the ratio would be faithful to the .9 ratio of the N64 controller's gate points.

[Link83]

Interesting question, Link.  I'm also curious as to whether the joystick would calibrate properly if I carefully modified the octogonal gate to match that of the N64's gate.  With some careful measurements and markings and a file I imagine you could get very close to perfect.

I believe this should be possible based on micro's reply to MockyLock in the old thread:-

2) cut out the corners
It's possible to enlarge the octagonal gate in the corners by using a file/dremel/sanding paper. I guess it would be hard to enlarge all four corners equally. And of course this is not reversible!

I'm not sure how you would calibrate it though, since I assume the stick converter calibrates by measuring the largest available range on the replacement analog stick? With a modified restrictor this would be the diagonals, which I think would mean you wouldnt gain anything and would in fact lose range in the up-down/left-right directions. Perhaps you would have to permanently enable the extended range mode in order to gain any benefit? Hopefully micro can help answer

[Cobretti]

Damn missed out!!

Enjoy the break Micro. Put me down for whatever next version you make or if you every write that easy to guide for programming the V2 boards to have the features of V3 as I got 10 of them sitting on my desk lol.

If you ever do a kickstarter let me know I would be all in on that too haha.

[wprpalmeida]

Interesting question, Link.  I'm also curious as to whether the joystick would calibrate properly if I carefully modified the octogonal gate to match that of the N64's gate.  With some careful measurements and markings and a file I imagine you could get very close to perfect.

I believe this should be possible based on micro's reply to MockyLock in the old thread:-

2) cut out the corners
It's possible to enlarge the octagonal gate in the corners by using a file/dremel/sanding paper. I guess it would be hard to enlarge all four corners equally. And of course this is not reversible!

I'm not sure how you would calibrate it though, since I assume the stick converter calibrates by measuring the largest available range on the replacement analog stick? With a modified restrictor this would be the diagonals, which I think would mean you wouldnt gain anything and would in fact lose range in the up-down/left-right directions. Perhaps you would have to permanently enable the extended range mode in order to gain any benefit? Hopefully micro can help answer

I have sufficient reason to believe it would indeed calibrate properly in case the shape of the restrictor gate were to be altered. Here's why:

The calibration routine will only look for max/min values for X and Y. Remember that this is a coordinate system, it's as if you had a Cartesian Plane to put your inputs on. Any diagonal points will have its coordinates smaller (or at best equal, when you think of a square) than the maximum or minimum values for X&Y, so the polygon shape you see on the screen of the Analog Stick Benchmark is exclusively dictated by the shape of the restrictor itself.

[Link83]

I have sufficient reason to believe it would indeed calibrate properly in case the shape of the restrictor gate were to be altered. Here's why:

The calibration routine will only look for max/min values for X and Y. Remember that this is a coordinate system, it's as if you had a Cartesian Plane to put your inputs on. Any diagonal points will have its coordinates smaller (or at best equal, when you think of a square) than the maximum or minimum values for X&Y, so the polygon shape you see on the screen of the Analog Stick Benchmark is exclusively dictated by the shape of the restrictor itself.

Now that I think about it some more your absolutely right

This yellow square should denote the 'theoretical' maximum unrestricted range available using micro's converter in the default mode:-

So modifying the shape of the restrictor should work fine as an option.

----------------------------------------------

I think its interesting that Nintendo's designers seemingly couldn't decide between a circular or square restrictor, so came up with the 'compromise' shape used in the final controller:-


You can see this thought process in the patents for the N64 analog stick, in which they describe how different types of game may require a circular or square shape.
http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5963196
Heres some info from the patent:-

In the above described embodiment, the guide ring 486 of the analog joystick 45 has the octagonal outer edge 491, and therefore, the lever 474 can be inclined within such an octagonal range due to the outer edge 491 of the guide ring 486. However, according to the game content, it is required to regard that the lever is inclined within a circular or rectangular range not the octagonal range. A case where the substantially inclinable range of the lever 474 is a circle as shown in FIG. 38 is called as "circle mode", and a case where the substantially inclinable range of the lever is a square is called as "square mode". In a case of the former, although the lever 474 is actually inclined within the octagonal range due to a restriction by the octagonal outer edge 491, in a step S4, a movement of the lever 474 is corrected into a circle range shown in FIG. 38. In a case of the latter, in a step S5, the movement of the lever 474 is corrected into a square range shown in FIG. 40. "Circle mode" is preferably applied to a game that it is desirable that the joystick data is not changed according to the inclined direction of the lever 474, a game that the movable character is moved in all the directions on the monitor screen in response to the direction and amount that the lever is inclined, for example. "Square mode" is preferably applied to a game that the lever 474 is inclined toward left or right at a state where the lever 474 is inclined toward front or rear at its maximum inclination position, such as the aforementioned racing game.

----------------------------------------------

Some additional thoughts I had...

According to Nintendo's SDK documentation the GameCube analog stick (Or 'control stick') has a range or 174 steps before dead zone clamping:-

Given that the N64 and GameCube controller protocols are so similar (Both use a serial data interface which could support analog stick values from 0-255) and that the 174 steps figure is so close to the 168 steps micro measured for a new N64 analog stick, one has to wonder if 174 steps was the actual maximum range Nintendo originally intended for the up-down, left-right measurements.

Also, having done a bit of 'pixel counting' I think the diagonal ranges might actually be 15% larger than the up-down/left-right ranges - so if we took 174 steps as the actual intended value, this gives a diagonal a range of 200 steps. Hmmm...

[wprpalmeida]

I have sufficient reason to believe it would indeed calibrate properly in case the shape of the restrictor gate were to be altered. Here's why:

The calibration routine will only look for max/min values for X and Y. Remember that this is a coordinate system, it's as if you had a Cartesian Plane to put your inputs on. Any diagonal points will have its coordinates smaller (or at best equal, when you think of a square) than the maximum or minimum values for X&Y, so the polygon shape you see on the screen of the Analog Stick Benchmark is exclusively dictated by the shape of the restrictor itself.

Now that I think about it some more your absolutely right

This yellow square should denote the 'theoretical' maximum unrestricted range available using micro's converter in the default mode:-
http://i.imgur.com/xu1c2in.png
So modifying the shape of the restrictor should work fine as an option.

----------------------------------------------

I think its interesting that Nintendo's designers seemingly couldn't decide between a circular or square restrictor, so came up with the 'compromise' shape used in the final controller:-
http://i.imgur.com/VV9X6Lgl.jpg

You can see this thought process in the patents for the N64 analog stick, in which they describe how different types of game may require a circular or square shape.
http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5963196

Precisely.

And regarding the range for the N64 and the Gamecube, I believe that the difference in nature of the sensors (optical vs. A/D-converted from a voltage divider) cause the increase in range from 168 to 174. This would give a deadzone of 3 steps in each direction to accomodate the fluctuation that is inherent with a potentiometer-based joystick, but again, this is just my opinion on the matter.

EDIT: big images in quotes

[sanni]

I'm also curious to know what the maximum number of steps is for the original diagonal ranges? I'm guessing around 190 steps?

There are about ~83-85 steps for up/down/left/right and diagonally the x/y values are between ~67-70 on a new controller.

So the overall "traveling distance" between e.g. the lower left and the upper right corner would be the square root of ((2*68)²+(2*68)²) so about 192.

[Informationator]

Sanni,

Is the device you're using to test the coordinates of the controllers and produce those diagrams available for purchase somewhere or is it custom?  It'd be nice to be able to perform some tests, especially if I did end up modifying the gate.