N64 Stick Converter PCB v3 / firmware v3.5 - PCBs available again (August 2017)

Started by micro, March 13, 2015, 08:57:38 AM

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Link83

July 31, 2015, 02:45:37 AM #80 Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 03:24:55 AM by Link83
Quote from: sanni on July 30, 2015, 02:03:43 AM
Quote from: Link83 on July 15, 2015, 12:57:48 PM
I'm also curious to know what the maximum number of steps is for the original diagonal ranges? I'm guessing around 190 steps?

There are about ~83-85 steps for up/down/left/right and diagonally the x/y values are between ~67-70 on a new controller.

So the overall "traveling distance" between e.g. the lower left and the upper right corner would be the square root of ((2*68)²+(2*68)²) so about 192.
Great to see you here sanni! :)

Thanks for the readings, so using your measurements and this octagon calaculator:-
http://www.had2know.com/academics/octagon-measurement-calculator.html
I calculated that when using an replacement stick with an octagon/circular restrictor using micro's N64 stick converter the diagonals can only reach 59 steps (Without extended range mode) but the measured diagonal value for a new analog stick is 68 steps due to the different shape of the N64's restrictor.

So to use an analog stick using an octagonal/circular restrictor:-
-168 steps (the current value) gives a diagonal value of 59 steps (Not enough for GoldenEye/Perfect Dark)
-192 steps is the maximum required to give a diagonal value of 68 steps (The same as a new N64 analog stick)
-180 steps is exactly inbetween the two, and should give a diagonal value of 63.5 steps (Perhaps enough for GoldenEye/Perfect Dark?)

----------------------------------------------

I dont know if this will just add confusion, but since I last posted I managed to find some info in the N64 SDK which is quite interesting:-

However the 'new' analog stick measurements ("Initial Values") appear to be considerably different to our already measured values? The only way I can get the figures to come close to our measured values is if the XA and YA values (The dead zone or 'center stop width') is meant to be 14 steps  - 7 steps in each direction, not 7 steps in total. In addition, it would appear that the calculations at the bottom are wrong(?) since based on the diagram/table they are subtracting 7 steps from a figure that already has 7 steps removed. Maybe i'm reading it wrong, or perhaps there was a mixup when the original Japanese SDK was translated by NOA.

Anyway, by my guess if Rare programmed GoldenEye/Perfect Dark to still work correctly with a 'used' analog stick ("Values after 500 direction changes") then the YCM value of 61 steps (54+7) is the minimum diagonal target we need to meet - this means that a value of 173 steps should 'in theory' be enough when using an octagon/circular restrictor. However if we wanted to mimic what Nintendo defines as a 'new' controller, then the YCM value is 63 steps (56+7) which leads to a maximum value of 178 steps.

----------------------------------------------

I'm probably looking into this too much! but I just thought there would be a more accurate intended value. Perhaps we should just work out the best number of steps by gradually increasing the converters range until we meet the value required for GoldenEye/Perfect Dark's diagonals to work correctly.

sanni

Great find Link83.  8)

I think that those values are just minimum specifications, so basicly the lowest thumbstick values a developer must make sure his game still works with and not the maximum values a new controller should give.

Only one way to find out(see attachment  :o)

Mario starts moving in Super Mario 64 at 8 and starts running(arms go back and forth fast) at 60.
In Goldeneye the crosshair starts moving in the menu at 6. In game the character starts to turn at 7 and with R-Targeting the crosshair starts to move at 2. While R-Targeting you don't start turning until you go past 60, with a speed increase at ~66 and another slight one around 68-70.
Seems to me like RARE didn't follow the guidelines set in the development manual which explains why Goldeneye makes so many problems.  :P

@Informationator, it's just an Arduino Uno with a sketch I wrote, you can find the source here. It's easy to build if you don't put it in such a small case  ;)

MockyLock

Hehe, good to see that this little issue i spotted lead to a huge tech discussion.
I must admit i'm a bit lost in all your chit-chat, but at least, i learn a lot !

Informationator

July 31, 2015, 05:56:16 AM #83 Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 06:00:16 AM by Informationator
Thanks, Sanni!  I can't access that link at the moment but I'll check it out and might make a little project out of it if it's within my abilities.

If micro's anything like other engineers I know, he loves problem solving and perfecting designs, but probably isn't terribly fond of the sales and shipping sides of selling the boards.

I wonder if this might inspire a new revision?  Or would this not necessitate any design changes?  Like MockyLock, some of this is just out of reach for me since I don't know the norms around steppings relative to the latest revision of micro's board.

Fretless

can anyone say if there is going to be another run of the PCB v3  boards? I would like to buy one. Also, I've read that while the knew version of the GC style sticks fixed the spin attack/smash attack issue, they are still not properly setup? is this the case/is the micro PCB mod still necessary?

CircuitTrace

August 20, 2015, 11:54:28 PM #85 Last Edit: August 20, 2015, 11:58:35 PM by CircuitTrace
I have been searching for a replacement stick for my N64 controller. I think that a "GoFundMe" or "Kickstarter" approach for a big run of ready-to-install sticks could be possible for Micro. The other 3rd party replacements are pretty poor precision. I bought a potentiometer-based "original looking" N64 stick and it's looser than a real Nintendo N64 stick after years of use. If the GameCube stick, potentiometer and V3 board restores it to new or better performance, then we have a winner.

What I liked about the N64 stick was the quick aiming and precise movements. It wasn't jittery nor over sensitive near center, and still gave a wide range of motion. The newer consoles' controllers (Xbox, Playstation) have a large dead spot in the center followed by what feels like positive exponential curves. On top of that, the stick movements feel like they are in lower resolution steps. That combines to make fine movements difficult. Aiming in the remastered Perfect Dark on Xbox 360 is jittery almost like a Nintendo Wii nunchuk. No other games jitter, but you can feel something like steps. I haven't perused a solution for the Xbox/Xbox 360 yet.

I think any problem that people encounter with the OEM GameCube stick is firstly the exponential, or range compression (as opposed to limiting), if applicable, imposed by the circuit and 38 degree potentiometer. The second version of the GameCube stick is favored over the first, but it's more sensitive by skipping steps. A second factor that may have become an issue for the OEM GameCube stick is the bezel shape reduces the diagonal stick travel, just like what was pointed out on the previous page. I'm not certain if the electronic hardware or software compensates for this diagonal movement even with the original N64 stick. I noticed that games on N64 that relied upon a single stick for gas, brakes and steering would slow down when making turns where the stick was departing from TDC (top dead center). Xbox sticks also do this. If the bezel was square, it might be able to apply hard turn while still having full throttle.

Informationator

August 23, 2015, 12:37:49 PM #86 Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 01:41:32 PM by Informationator
Quote from: Fretless on August 18, 2015, 07:35:28 AM
can anyone say if there is going to be another run of the PCB v3  boards? I would like to buy one. Also, I've read that while the knew version of the GC style sticks fixed the spin attack/smash attack issue, they are still not properly setup? is this the case/is the micro PCB mod still necessary?

As for "will there be more?"  ...that's entirely up to Micro.

As for if it's still necessary...  I'm going to go out on a limb and say yes.  I have a single V3 board from him and I haven't been able to install it yet (My tripod was tied up in another project and I wanted to make a nice video out of it), but I did install the version 3 "gamecube style" replacement joystick (had "V3" on the back, not to be confused with Micro's v3 circuitboard) and while it is MUCH better than a worn out joystick in terms of usability, it is too sensitive.  CircuitTrace pretty much covered the technical details, but I'll give you some real-world examples:

Mario Kart 64 - I can powerslide very effectively with an unmodded joystick, but where you notice the oversensitivity is when you need to make fine adjustments on a straightaway, or any small movement.  Unmodded joysticks tend to take you farther than you want to go and on one occasion (I think) led to a spinout on 150cc that I likely wouldn't have gotten with an accurate-to-original joystick.

Goldeyene 007 - Again, the compression of range/sensitivity shows in the fine movements you try to make.  When you're using R to use the crosshair, you'll overshoot your target.  This is especially noticeable when you're trying to get a headshot, or on places requiring precise shooting like the lock on the chainlink gate on the Dam level.  I imagine it'd be really frustrating trying to shoot remote mines or proximity mines in multiplayer with the unmodded joysticks.

I'll be tied up for the next week or so, but I'm hoping to solder micro's v3 kit together next weekend and make a nice video out of it including gameplay showing what I'm talking about.  I'll post it where when I'm done.

Informationator

Hey guys, I went ahead and made that video.  I have the YouTube video as unlisted right now which means only those with the link can view it.  Please don't share the link, because I don't want Micro getting bothered by people who might see the video.  For now, I'm only sharing it with this community and a few friends.  Hope you like it!

https://youtu.be/7UivhfH6AhU

micro

September 12, 2015, 09:42:11 AM #88 Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 09:47:15 AM by micro
That's a very nice video, good job!  :D


At the moment I don't plan on making another batch of the N64 Stick Converter PCB. Ordering the sticks is just a PITA. It's so much trouble to get these delivered without all pins bent.. Also I'd like to mention that during the last batch there was a considerable amount of people who contacted me to express their interest in the PCB, but then never responded nor paid. This kind of behaviour really pisses me off...

EDIT: Kickstarter or crowdfunding in general for the PCB won't happen either... But stay chilled. I don't plan on taking the source code/PCB layout to my grave. Once I'm certain I will never make another batch, I will release the files. But the question is if people would really benefit from that without having a source for the 60° joysticks outside of Germany... :/

Informationator

September 12, 2015, 09:54:45 AM #89 Last Edit: September 12, 2015, 09:56:23 AM by Informationator
Quote from: micro on September 12, 2015, 09:42:11 AM
That's a very nice video, good job!  :D


At the moment I don't plan on making another batch of the N64 Stick Converter PCB. Ordering the sticks is just a PITA. It's so much trouble to get these delivered without all pins bent.. Also I'd like to mention that during the last batch there was a considerable amount of people who contacted me to express their interest in the PCB, but then never responded nor paid. This kind of behaviour really pisses me off...

Thanks!  I really love how your mod turned out.  I've done a lot of trades and eBay sales and can understand how infuriating it is to deal with unreliable people...

Have you considered using something like Kickstarter or gofundme where people would have to pay you in advance? Or, you could just make prepayment a condition for preordering to weed out the buttheads.

Or, if you're just sick of all of it, do you have plans to get your design into the hands of someone who will make more like the guys over at retrousb.com?

Every one of my friends that has used the joystick with your board has said it's the best one they've ever used and I agree.  Nerd tears will be shed if I'm forever the guy that has just one of your boards - the last one ever sold.

Regardless of what you decide to do, thank you for making this.  Even just one truly great joystick is better than none and I'm grateful to have it :)

Junior

September 21, 2015, 07:25:28 AM #90 Last Edit: September 21, 2015, 07:31:03 AM by Junior
Quote from: micro on September 12, 2015, 09:42:11 AM

At the moment I don't plan on making another batch of the N64 Stick Converter PCB. Ordering the sticks is just a PITA. It's so much trouble to get these delivered without all pins bent.. Also I'd like to mention that during the last batch there was a considerable amount of people who contacted me to express their interest in the PCB, but then never responded nor paid. This kind of behaviour really pisses me off...


I will wait for it patiently, but, please make another batch. I have 6 controllers and intend to put on four of them.

Will be a honor helping you find new customers here in Brasil!

Here most of controllers sticks is damaged, and people left yours N64 because of this
Rio de Janeiro - Brasil !!!

F4B1N0U

same :)
I could be definitely interested for 10 of them. just let us know
I could be very happy to have this mod on my controllers.
After my official RGB mod, will just miss the wireless controller haha =-)

dav3yb

Quote from: micro on September 12, 2015, 09:42:11 AM
That's a very nice video, good job!  :D


At the moment I don't plan on making another batch of the N64 Stick Converter PCB. Ordering the sticks is just a PITA. It's so much trouble to get these delivered without all pins bent.. Also I'd like to mention that during the last batch there was a considerable amount of people who contacted me to express their interest in the PCB, but then never responded nor paid. This kind of behaviour really pisses me off...

EDIT: Kickstarter or crowdfunding in general for the PCB won't happen either... But stay chilled. I don't plan on taking the source code/PCB layout to my grave. Once I'm certain I will never make another batch, I will release the files. But the question is if people would really benefit from that without having a source for the 60° joysticks outside of Germany... :/

Just out of curiosity, how much do you usually order at one time? I'm wondering if you could make a list of people who want to order some, and before getting them made, take payment from the list of people willing to buy some (and have a spillover list to allow those waiting to pick up for anyone who bails out on you)

or if one person were willing to order boards from you and be, perhaps a middle man of sorts for it?

Informationator

September 24, 2015, 12:00:17 AM #93 Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 12:16:51 AM by Informationator
So long as you were organized enough to keep every person/address, order quantity, etc. tracked in an excel spreadsheet along with whether or not they've paid, that could be a great service to the community.  I voice that because sometimes people don't seem to know what they're getting themselves into with something like this.  There are a lot of data points, a lot of back and forth communication with people, and it will take a lot of time.  If you mess up in your data tracking or fail to communicate, people will be ticked.

...I know because I once cleaned up the mess of someone who was (poorly) organizing orders and order fulfillment in Word.  WORD!  It took me 3x as long to clean up the mess than if I'd just done it all myself from the start.

Interested to see what Micro thinks.


dav3yb

Quote from: Informationator on September 24, 2015, 12:00:17 AM
So long as you were organized enough to keep every person/address, order quantity, etc. tracked in an excel spreadsheet along with whether or not they've paid, that could be a great service to the community.  I voice that because sometimes people don't seem to know what they're getting themselves into with something like this.  There are a lot of data points, a lot of back and forth communication with people, and it will take a lot of time.  If you mess up in your data tracking or fail to communicate, people will be ticked.

...I know because I once cleaned up the mess of someone who was (poorly) organizing orders and order fulfillment in Word.  WORD!  It took me 3x as long to clean up the mess than if I'd just done it all myself from the start.

Interested to see what Micro thinks.

Thats a good idea, id love to order a good lot of these for friends if possible.  I'm glad i had the foresight to get 4 of them when the first v3 batch showed up. Its nice to have a set, but i would love to get some more, since they've been so good.

I've even been doing some Mario 64 speed running and using one, its been great to know i won't have to worry about them wearing out when throwing the joystick around to do moves and spin bowser around.

I'd almost like to get a large batch and try and get some of the junkier controllers fixed up with them to sell to people to be honest.

Informationator

Quote from: dav3yb on September 24, 2015, 12:28:10 AM
I'd almost like to get a large batch and try and get some of the junkier controllers fixed up with them to sell to people to be honest.

Yeah, if you look at the red controller's joystick in the video I made above, you'll see its joystick is TERRIBLE.  I ordered it out of Japan and expected it to be all worn out, but I'd have been really upset if I didn't expect it to be bad from the start.  The mod took that controller from complete garbage to the best controller I have.

Traveller

I still haven't tried installing the PCB's I ordered, I have a bunch of good controllers plus some Hori Mini's. I'll probably look into trying to do this soonish though.

When ordering a GameCube style stick, does it matter where you get it from? Are there multiple versions out there made by different people? I'm guessing it doesn't matter at all since we are replacing the internals.

Thanks.

Informationator

Quote from: Traveller on October 03, 2015, 08:33:42 AM
I still haven't tried installing the PCB's I ordered, I have a bunch of good controllers plus some Hori Mini's. I'll probably look into trying to do this soonish though.

When ordering a GameCube style stick, does it matter where you get it from? Are there multiple versions out there made by different people? I'm guessing it doesn't matter at all since we are replacing the internals.

Thanks.

I ordered from the below link back in June and they worked perfectly for this mod.  Mine had "V3" stamped on the bottom: http://m.ebay.com/itm/380952838594?_mwBanner=1

Takeshi385

I want one as soon as you get them in.

Jamm

I bought the gamecube stick for N64 controller and the stick is good but too sensitive, after some search i found this topic and i saw a lot of people recommending this PCB to fix the problem. I think i found this a bit too late but if you decide to sell another batch (i really hope you decide to make another batch :) ) i will definitely buy at least 2-3 PCB.

Keek

Man sure would be nice to get some of these for my n64. All my controllers have aftermarket joysticks, and it's very difficult for most people to use them. Came upon this thread and I thought my prayers were answered. Micro seems to be a genius, from what I've seen they work perfect. The only problem is he's not willing to sell them because of bent pins and people not willing to follow through. Sure is a shame. ALOT of people would love to have these if only more people were aware. Seems like a great business opportunity if you ask me. Anyone else aware of any similar fixes out there that are actually available to buy?

Informationator

Quote from: Keek on October 19, 2015, 04:47:02 PM
Man sure would be nice to get some of these for my n64. All my controllers have aftermarket joysticks, and it's very difficult for most people to use them. Came upon this thread and I thought my prayers were answered. Micro seems to be a genius, from what I've seen they work perfect. The only problem is he's not willing to sell them because of bent pins and people not willing to follow through. Sure is a shame. ALOT of people would love to have these if only more people were aware. Seems like a great business opportunity if you ask me. Anyone else aware of any similar fixes out there that are actually available to buy?

I don't think there are any equivalents out there right now.  I really wish the people selling the aftermarket joysticks would get their act together and fix the sensitivity.

Maybe Micro will do a special weihnachten shipment :P  I do hope that we can get more made either through Micro or through a business partner in the next 6-12 months.  A few of my controllers are looking pretty rough...

GeniuswithaJ

Yea I've been watching this thread for a few month, waiting for word on new ones. Like the rest of the people above me I'd definitely be interested in ordering some, probably order 12 if possible so I can give a set of 4 to my brothers as gifts and have 4 of my own.

ogran

Found out about this after a 'hard' day of searching for replacement sticks - can't wait for the new batch (haven't soldered since high school so this'll be a cool project). :)

Out of interest, has anyone got a video of a modded stick working with Goldeneye  or Perfect Dark (using the 1.2 control style)? Will primarily be used for speedrunning these and the more precise the better.

Informationator

Quote from: ogran on October 26, 2015, 05:54:57 PM
Found out about this after a 'hard' day of searching for replacement sticks - can't wait for the new batch (haven't soldered since high school so this'll be a cool project). :)

Out of interest, has anyone got a video of a modded stick working with Goldeneye  or Perfect Dark (using the 1.2 control style)? Will primarily be used for speedrunning these and the more precise the better.

I posted a video that includes a small bit of Goldeneye footage farther up in the thread.  I think these modded sticks are superior to the original design during normal use and I've done some basic speedrunning myself.  You just need to ensure you utilize the  extended range mode.  Their edge range isn't perfect for Goldeneye, so even with extended range mode it's possible you could run into some issues, but throughout the rest of the range (99% of it), it feels fantastic.

dmoo

October 30, 2015, 07:12:48 PM #105 Last Edit: October 30, 2015, 07:14:43 PM by dmoo
I would be in for 4 if you get around to another batch! You can take my name and shame me if I don't purchase! :)

Edit: I would be up for pre-order if that helps.

public-pervert

Hey Ogran, it works nicely on speedruns since the v1.0. You may not know me, but I'm on The-Elite rankings aswell. I'm currentrly ranked at 29th on Goldeneye. Need to play again someday if I ever have time.

micro

Quote from: Informationator on October 20, 2015, 12:18:29 AM
Quote from: Keek on October 19, 2015, 04:47:02 PM
Man sure would be nice to get some of these for my n64. All my controllers have aftermarket joysticks, and it's very difficult for most people to use them. Came upon this thread and I thought my prayers were answered. Micro seems to be a genius, from what I've seen they work perfect. The only problem is he's not willing to sell them because of bent pins and people not willing to follow through. Sure is a shame. ALOT of people would love to have these if only more people were aware. Seems like a great business opportunity if you ask me. Anyone else aware of any similar fixes out there that are actually available to buy?

I don't think there are any equivalents out there right now.  I really wish the people selling the aftermarket joysticks would get their act together and fix the sensitivity.

Maybe Micro will do a special weihnachten shipment :P  I do hope that we can get more made either through Micro or through a business partner in the next 6-12 months.  A few of my controllers are looking pretty rough...

Informationator, are you my hype man?  ;D

As I said I don't plan on making another batch atm. You might have read about yet another update of the GC-style replacement stick. I could swear that I've seen pics of the new version in this very thread but I can't find them. Maybe I was tripping...

It seems the new version also has this 38° joystick which means it still got a "dead border" on the outside and a high sensitivity. You could also see on the pics that the new PCB got a different shape. It's mounted with 2 screws instead of 4. I don't know if the N64 Stick Converter PCB v3 would fit this new case. And as long as I don't know for sure, there won't be another batch.
I can't imagine anyone likes to buy a PCB which doesn't fit.  ;)

And for the love of god, please don't send me any more messages concerning the availability of these PCBs. As I said, currently there are none available. Just check this thread once a month and you probably won't miss the next batch.
Furthermore I'm not sure how Lawrence (=admin) feels about all the people that registerd on this board just to express their interest in something that isn't available... :/



Edwardtz

I'm glad I got in to order the sticks. Thank you micro for your work. The current v3 works for me but I don't play much GoldenEye so. Perfect for everything else.

Hopefully you can find a better supplier. N64 stick replacements are needed and you did a great job with the v3 pcb in my opinion.

Andy-Antsinpants

I don't see how Lawrence should have any issue with more people registering on this forum. Even if it may be initially just for your PCBs, some might stay for participating in other discussions as well. And I think that's actually a good thing.

NFG

Yeah I don't mind, worst case they take an amount of space in the database that's so close to zero it doesn't matter.  And I can trim them out years later without penalty.  So carry on!  =)


Traveller

November 09, 2015, 09:13:57 AM #112 Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 02:40:58 PM by Traveller
EDIT: I ordered from the eBay seller and I have just finished doing the basic install, the soldering was a tiny bit messy at first, but it seems to have gone well. I have just checked it on using the test rom.

Up: 84
Down: -84
Left: -82
Right: 83

The un-modified one has number values in the 90's, but has that awful square shape obviously, whys that? I quickly tried the Hori Mini and it had higher numbers again if I recall, but it had the correct shape. 

Loving it so far, feels good.

Can the calibration change over time? Is that why we'd want to redo it?

Thanks Micro.


Informationator

Quote from: micro on October 31, 2015, 07:45:04 AM
Quote from: Informationator on October 20, 2015, 12:18:29 AM
Quote from: Keek on October 19, 2015, 04:47:02 PM
Man sure would be nice to get some of these for my n64. All my controllers have aftermarket joysticks, and it's very difficult for most people to use them. Came upon this thread and I thought my prayers were answered. Micro seems to be a genius, from what I've seen they work perfect. The only problem is he's not willing to sell them because of bent pins and people not willing to follow through. Sure is a shame. ALOT of people would love to have these if only more people were aware. Seems like a great business opportunity if you ask me. Anyone else aware of any similar fixes out there that are actually available to buy?

I don't think there are any equivalents out there right now.  I really wish the people selling the aftermarket joysticks would get their act together and fix the sensitivity.

Maybe Micro will do a special weihnachten shipment :P  I do hope that we can get more made either through Micro or through a business partner in the next 6-12 months.  A few of my controllers are looking pretty rough...

Informationator, are you my hype man?  ;D

Haha, just a hopeful nerd who checks this thread a lot so I don't miss the next batch if you ever have a change of heart.  Since I'm around anyway I've tried to contribute where I can.  I am hyped about your product!  Many of my friends have asked me to notify them if you ever make more, because they love the feel of the one controller I put it in.

Thanks, Lawrence, for including us :)

Crosz_

Hey Guys, i want to replace the Rubberstick of those GC-Styled-Replacementstricks. I have tried the Xbox 360/Xbox One-Sticks wich have a way to big gap, Wii u Smashbros Controller ist to deep, and some more...)
I´d love some Sticks with better grip or different color but i couldn´t find any so far.
Does anyone of you know where to get those Sticks? (no matter if it´s already in any existing controller or single purchase)

micro

Copied from the first post:

QuoteAnnouncement: I'm planning on making another batch of the N64 Stick Converter PCB v3. :D The PCB sets should be ready by end of january/early february. Instructions for ordering the PCB's sets can be found in this very post once they're ready. So be patient and check this thread once in a while. ^_^

I already ordered most of the parts. Let's hope the damn analog sticks will arrive without bent pins this time... ;)

Informationator

Quote from: micro on December 30, 2015, 04:46:24 AM
Copied from the first post:

QuoteAnnouncement: I'm planning on making another batch of the N64 Stick Converter PCB v3. :D The PCB sets should be ready by end of january/early february. Instructions for ordering the PCB's sets can be found in this very post once they're ready. So be patient and check this thread once in a while. ^_^

I already ordered most of the parts. Let's hope the damn analog sticks will arrive without bent pins this time... ;)

GLORY IS UPON US.  THE TIME FOR POWERSLIDING IS NIGH!  JOHNSONS AND JOHNSONS NO MORE TEARS

Ashley


Fuddman

Good news indeed.  :)

What is the price of one gonna be (roughly)?
Yeah Oh! Fuddman

dav3yb

January 11, 2016, 02:48:44 PM #119 Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 02:59:51 PM by dav3yb
So is there potentially some issues with a "newer" GC Style joystick?  I know there was some mention of this before, but didn't know for sure.  And if i can manage, ill be in for at least 8 of these new ones.  I've loved the ones i've been using, and will be hooking some friends up with some for sure.  Considering ordering 12 tbh. 

Also, about how many do you actually get in a "batch"?