HDD image V4 released

[Neshek]

Is there a reliable way to edit this image from a PC to add more games/files to it?

Pretty straightforward. transfer though Disk Explorer gave me lot of errors.
So i mounted the image with XM6, installed games/transfered from old image/whatever (Gotta love "No Wait(VM)"), raw image transfer to x68000 SD/CF/HDD with winamge or something like that.. That's it.

[Neshek]

Late thanks for the image update guys.

By the way, i'd be honored you add my format translation to your image. GUI is bearable now. ^^ (Tested again and again on my hard drive)
Sitting at the end of this thread some time ago.. http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5143.msg34286#msg34286

Plus if you need workforce for additional Human68k translations...
Could be a funny project btw...

[eidis]

 Hi Neshek !

Your translation looks very good so it will definitely be included in the next image. Keep up the good work !

Eidis

[AnnaWu]

Hi Neshek !

Your translation looks very good so it will definitely be included in the next image. Keep up the good work !

Eidis

I agree, looks fine for me too.

[RobIvy64]

http://nfggames.com/X68000/uploads/X68000_V4_IL.HDS

And here is the V4 image with Illumination Laser added to Games3! The file is uploading, so give it an hour or two.

Can this be added to the /Games directory with the other HDD images?

It has IL added as well as fixing many of the directory bugs with V4.

It's not an ~~****OFFICIAL EIDIS RELEASE****~~ but it's an improved version

[eidis]

 Hi RobIvy64 !

Please be more specific about the directory bugs.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[RobIvy64]

Hi Guys !

Already found a bug in V4. The following games in Games2 got accidentally broken:

Algarna
Namachuukei
Square Resort

You can easily remedy the situation by editing their !Start.bat and making sure that SUBST command is pointing to Games2 instead of Games. Sorry for the caused inconvenience.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

^^ this

[eidis]

 Hi Guys !

I would like to make a public announcement.

First of all I would like to say thank you to Caius and all who were involved in making HDD image what it is today. There has been a constant demand for frequent updates and that is why I would like to introduce a good, user-friendly and most importantly bandwidth-friendly solution.

From now on HDD V4 image will be used as a baseline and all further updates for it will be released as patches. V5 will be released when significant amount of changes have accumulated and the cycle will repeat itself.

It took a lot of work and effort to make the image what it is today and that is why I would like to ask you to let me be the one who decides which path it takes. Some of you might disagree with such decision, however until now it has brought great prosperity for all of us. If you want some specific changes to be done, please submit your requests in this thread and I will review them before releasing the next official patch. Please understand that some requests might differ with my intended vision and evolution of HDD image and might be rejected.

And now, finally I would like to present to you a revolutionary system which will make frequent updates a very real reality.

First of all download PatchOnClick V2.3.0.0 - Freeware Version
http://nfggames.com/X68000/PC_Tools/patchonclick-2-3-en-win.exe

This was the best which I could find and it is brain dead simple to use. Please respect Lawrence's server's bandwidth and do not upload the whole V4 image. Please submit only the patch, along with txt file which contains the list of changes and modifications. Make a single zip of both files and upload it to the FTP.

Thank you for your understanding.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[RobIvy64]

So we have to submit changes to you for approval?

That's a fast way to discourage anyone from submitting any changes

I can imagine that most people will just modify their own personal images and not bother with sharing.

The image should be an open source tool that is available for many different minds to shape as needed. If we funnel all content through you, then you are effectively controlling and possibly limiting the potential of this image.

[eidis]

 RobIvy64,

Please try to see the whole picture. I received many submissions of games while working on V4 and only a small fraction of them were included. Slightly more than 120 were disqualified because they were bloody awful. I have very high quality standards and that is why I do not like the idea of multiple people managing the image. Don't take it the wrong way. Everyone can submit their requests. The hardcore users can submit the patches if they want to, but it is not necessary. A simple request will do.

The same principle is used in the Linux community as well. People submit either bug reports, requests or patches and maintainers review them and either approve or reject.

The image was never intended to be open source. It is a hobby which I do in my spare time and share with the rest of you.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[RobIvy64]

I understand, but a game that you might think is terrible could be fun for someone else.

Maybe I am the only person that this rubs the wrong way. Funneling all creativity and talent through one central "gatekeeper" will only stifle progress.

I only know of two revisions that have been submitted: My revision with Illumination Laser installed to the appropriate folder (Games3, 4MB game...), and Deadite's self-titled "baller" image. Both were improvements to the original images they were based on.

Admittedly, his image was sloppily thrown together and included a large selection of mediocre games, but the addition of a partition that allows you to boot SX Window was very much welcome. It's something i've modified back into the V4 image, as well as adding some of his games that were omitted at your discretion.

You can manage your creation as you see fit. It's your choice, but I wouldn't expect to see the queue filling up with requests. Most people will simply upgrade their personal images and be finished with it.

SEVERAL HOURS LATER EDIT: wow you have ninja-edited and overhauled nearly all of your original posts! This thread doesn't make much sense anymore.

Guess i'll have to quote you next time

[eidis]

RobIvy64,

You just said it yourself. If you see that the image can be improved, just submit a request.

P.S. There were lot's of submissions by Caius. Kudos for his hard work and dedication.

P.P.S. Right now history is repeating itself. I had the same argument with SuperDeadite when he released his Baller image. Unfortunately I was not mature enough to handle that situation properly and for that I am truly sorry.

SEVERAL HOURS LATER EDIT: wow you have ninja-edited and overhauled nearly all of your original posts! This thread doesn't make much sense anymore.

That is correct. I do make a lot of grammar mistakes so I try to correct them later. Feel free to quote me in order to preserve the authenticity of the original posts and sorry for causing you inconvenience.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[RobIvy64]

You won't see any requests from me. I'm pretty happy with my modified version, and i'll refrain from uploading it for the community to enjoy at the request of the content creator.

[eidis]

RobIvy64,

Everyone has the right to release or not release his or her work. I respect your decision.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[eidis]

 Hi Guys !

-= THE FUTURE IS NOW ! =-

I present to you the first Service Pack for HDD image V4
http://nfggames.com/X68000/Games/V4%20Patches/X68000_V4_SP1.zip

The patch must be applied to unmodified X68000_V4.HDS

Get it here:
http://nfggames.com/x68000/Games/X68000V4.zip

  X68000_V4.HDS source must have CRC: E20F691A
Patched X68000_V4.HDS must have CRC: 725DDCD7

Use QuickSFV (www.QuickSFV.org) to verify.

HDD image V4 Service Pack 1
=====================

Deleted Phalanx from Games3
Added Phalanx to Games (Now runs on 2MB machines)
Added IlluminationLaser to Games3 (Courtesy of Mr.TERRA)
Added bdif.x, bup.x, revdel.x, bdf2rx.x to Bin
Added windrv.sys to Sys
Added hcpkplay.x and two sample video files to Multimedia\Video
Fixed subst references for Games2\Algarna
Fixed subst references for Games2\Namachuukei68
Fixed subst references for Games2\SquareResort

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis (19.06.2014)

[cr4zymanz0r]

Eidis,

I have a question/scenario regarding modifying the HDD images ourselves. I can understand you not wanting several people editing the images and uploading to Lawrence's FTP. However, is there a real issue if someone edits the image, hosts it elsewhere, and just posts about it here with a disclaimer that it's not an "official" HDD image?

For instance, some games won't normally run from a HDD and do not currently have hacks to make them do so but the floppy disk images can be loaded to RAM to run. This of course requires more RAM and ideally the game could be hacked in the future to run off the HDD on a standard 2MB X68000. This is basically what superdeadite did with his "baller" image. Though some aspects of it are out of date now, it was a nice option for some of us who do have more RAM in our X68000.

I'm not trying to offend or start a fight, but I'm just curious about the specifics. Do you just not want the images modified and distributed because you don't want them hogging Lawrences's bandwidth/disk space, or is there more to it? I know you'd like bug reports and suggestions rather than someone silently "fixing" the image themselves and uploading. But other than that, is there a real issue with someone customizing the image and posting about it here as long as they're hosting it elsewhere and making it obvious that it's not "official"?

[eidis]

 Hi Cr4zymanz0r !

Thank you for reaching out to ask. There was a time when many fine members of our forum were still playing games from floppy drives and connecting hard drive to X68000 was a very big mystery by itself. The thing is, only Caius helped when the image was in its infancy and we both made it what it is today. Now, when it has reached maturity, I get frequent requests from "helping hands" to take over the image.

The image caries a philosophy, that everything must run with as less hardware requirements as possible and be as authentic, optimized, clean and user friendly as possible. Think of it as an Apple product which makes hardware and software both run in harmony an gives that satisfying feeling when using. That is why there are not many 2HDBOOT games in it.  The only ones are mostly one floppy games which have trackloaders or some kind of crazy protection. That is why I worked hard to translate the main system files and LHES to Engrish. And that is why I do not want "helping hands" to help ruin what took ages to build. If someone really wants to help then please submit either bug reports, requests or your work which you would like me to include. It will definitely be included if it does not conflict with the images vision and philosophy. People who are seriously interested in helping the image grow understand this and so far have been very huge help. Thank you to everyone who has contributed their time and work to this project. I seriously don't see the point of working on two separate images. Instead we should focus on making this the best one there is.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[neko68k]

We should create a standard for patch disks so people can apply them themselves easily without having to reflash their entire disk. I thought about doing this for the music disk too since I have a hand full of stuff that isn't on it.

Maybe something as simple as an NFO/HED file, 1 or more disks with spanned LZH or something and a command in the autoexec.bat that automagically installs the proper stuff to the proper location. Maybe a 'which disk [a]' prompt or something.

As an aside, it might be fun to do intros for these patch disks. Or to commemorate releases of the HDD. Could be good experience for people who want to learn to code for x68k.

[eidis]

 Hi Neko68k !

Thank you for your suggestions. Most people want to apply the updates in a speedy fashion. I have tried your proposed methods while working on the images and found out that it is much faster to patch the baseline on PC and transfer it to physical media. Much less work involved and quicker results. I think that the newly introduced patch system is very good and efficient way how to distribute small incremental updates. You could try it on your Music image and post the patch file

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[98pacecar]

I assume the app you are using to create patches is just doing a delta between the base v4 and an upgraded V4 to build the patch file? That will certainly work, but as it's not possible to differentiate between the actual contents of the image, the entire image will be reset. That includes changes to configuration and saved games/scores.

Of course, replacing the entire image with a newer version will have the same issue, but if the possibility exists to update internally to a running image, that would be preferable, at least to me. Not to mention that patching the image requires opening up the system to get at the drive. Maybe this is not an issue for others, but I suspect it is. In my case, it would take a very impressive update to entice me to use it. In fact, I'd rather just receive instructions and an lzh of any changed binaries and deal with applying the changes myself.

I applaud you for your efforts and will state that your images are a big part of what pushed me over the edge in wanting an x68k. I think there are a lot of great opportunities to continue development on your image and look forward to v5!

[eidis]

 Hi 98pacecar !

Thank you for your kind words. I have a firm vision where I want to take the image in V5. However, it will be a very major update so don't expect it to happen anytime soon. In the meantime, there is still much to do in the Human68k realm.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[RobIvy64]

The driving factor behind the patching system is to discourage any modifications to the source image. Many like myself re-add games omitted from V3 or the baller image (like the full version of Touhou Blue Phoenix, for example. V4 only has the demo).

For those of us who modify their images, I suggest you keep two copies: One for modifications and improvements, and one that is unaltered used just for "patching".

You can then copy the changes from one image to your personal image.

It's a lot of unnecessary additional steps, but hopefully this helps some of you

[RobIvy64]

98pacecar brings up a valid point: game saves altering the image.

Do we know this "patching" system will work with an image that has modified data? re: game saves or high score saves?

When I tried to patch a PC98 image that only had an autoexec.bat change, it would not work.

[eidis]

 Hi RobIvy64 !

The whole purpose for the newly introduced patch system is to save space and bandwidth. I strongly doubt that most of us would like to download large amounts of data only to find out that a few Mb of the original content was changed. The patch also makes deploying updates very fast, easy and convenient. I tested it and can proudly say that it will help in releasing more frequent updates. And yes, the patches only work with the baseline image and not modified ones. You brought up a good point. I should have included a CRC32 checksum for the source baseline image to avoid confusion.

Code Select Expand

; Generated by QuickSFV v2.36 on 2014-06-21 at 19:18:32
; http://www.QuickSFV.org
;
;    943718400  23:35.46 2014-05-23 X68000_V4.HDS
X68000_V4.HDS E20F691A



Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[RobIvy64]

Hi RobIvy64 !

The whole purpose for the newly introduced patch system is to save space and bandwidth. I strongly doubt that most of us would like to download large amounts of data only to find out that a few Mb of the original content was changed. The patch also makes deploying updates very fast, easy and convenient. I tested it and can proudly say that it will help in releasing more frequent updates. And yes, the patches only work with the baseline image and not modified ones. You brought up a good point. I should have included a CRC32 checksum for the source baseline image to avoid confusion.

Code Select Expand

; Generated by QuickSFV v2.36 on 2014-06-21 at 19:18:32
; http://www.QuickSFV.org
;
;    943718400  23:35.46 2014-05-23 X68000_V4.HDS
X68000_V4.HDS E20F691A



Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

Why not release updates via a zip file, with the appropriate updated folders?

An extractable archive consumes as much space and bandwidth as a proprietary patching program image.

It's simple, and preserves high score and save data for the users.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand why we have to travel around the block just to go next door, so to speak.

[eidis]

 Hi RobIvy64 !

Why not release updates via a zip file, with the appropriate updated folders?

Because some programs have Japanese characters in their file names and that can cause them not to work when imported back to the image due to differences in computers codepages. I had data corruption in the past due to this and was forced to thoroughly test the whole image because of that. However, I used DiskExplorer back then so it could be related to it. Let's test your proposal. Download the Temp.zip and try to import the contents using windrv.sys (also included in the archive). You will have to add the following line in config.sys "DEVICE = \SYS\WINDRV.SYS" \=Yen sign. I have included a few troublesome games which were victims of data corruption in the past. VBall and GenpeiToumaden should work or not work at all. AfterBurner might crash when Level1 is starting. R_Type can have corrupt graphics beneath the playfield. Try them and tell me how it went.

http://nfggames.com/X68000/Uploads/Temp.zip

An extractable archive consumes as much space and bandwidth as a proprietary patching program image.

True, but what will happen if I release 10 updates ? One will have to go through all ten of them seperately ? I could integrate all previous updates in the next one but that would defeat the purpose of not using the patcher.

It's simple, and preserves high score and save data for the users.

Very good point. The updating process will be a lot slower though.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand why we have to travel around the block just to go next door, so to speak.

The answer to your question is data integrity. X68000 is notorious for damaging data on its storage, especially on MO-DISKS and SASI hard drives with earlier SxSI drivers which did not have the DMA patch. That is why I am extremely cautious about preserving data integrity.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[RobIvy64]

Hi RobIvy64 !

Why not release updates via a zip file, with the appropriate updated folders?

Because some programs have Japanese characters in their file names and that can cause them not to work when imported back to the image due to differences in computers codepages. I had data corruption in the past due to this and was forced to thoroughly test the whole image because of that. However, I used DiskExplorer back then so it could be related to it. Let's test your proposal. Download the Temp.zip and try to import the contents using windrv.sys (also included in the archive). You will have to add the following line in config.sys "DEVICE = \SYS\WINDRV.SYS" \=Yen sign. I have included a few troublesome games which were victims of data corruption in the past. VBall and GenpeiToumaden should work or not work at all. AfterBurner might crash when Level1 is starting. R_Type can have corrupt graphics beneath the playfield. Try them and tell me how it went.

http://nfggames.com/X68000/Uploads/Temp.zip

An extractable archive consumes as much space and bandwidth as a proprietary patching program image.

True, but what will happen if I release 10 updates ? One will have to go through all ten of them seperately ? I could integrate all previous updates in the next one but that would defeat the purpose of not using the patcher.

It's simple, and preserves high score and save data for the users.

Very good point. The updating process will be a lot slower though.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I just don't understand why we have to travel around the block just to go next door, so to speak.

The answer to your question is data integrity. X68000 is notorious for damaging data on its storage, especially on MO-DISKS and SASI hard drives with earlier SxSI drivers which did not have the DMA patch. That is why I am extremely cautious about preserving data integrity.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

Ahh interesting, thanks for the explanation!

I've been adding to and modifying my images for years. I haven't run into the data corruption issue, but I guess I have been really lucky all of those times!

[sharp]

This is interesting. What OS are you running Robivy64?

[eidis]

 Hi Neko68k !

We should create a standard for patch disks so people can apply them themselves easily without having to reflash their entire disk. I thought about doing this for the music disk too since I have a hand full of stuff that isn't on it.

Maybe something as simple as an NFO/HED file, 1 or more disks with spanned LZH or something and a command in the autoexec.bat that automagically installs the proper stuff to the proper location. Maybe a 'which disk [a]' prompt or something.

I gave it a though and here is what I came up with. There is a program called copy2.x which comes bundled with Human OS, it is in the HDD image by default, and allows creating and restoring spanned files to and from multiple floppy disks. In theory, I could create an LZH archive with all the updates and span it to multiple floppies. I suppose that it would work very good with small updates in the range of 5Mb, but what about if there will be ~12mb, like in the SP1, or larger updates ? The procedure would involve copying all floppies to hard drive, provided that you have enough free space to store the archive and unpack it, and unarchiving them.

Another option to avoid being a hardcore DJ would be using MuTerm to transfer the data from PC to X68000 via serial interface.

So here is the dilemma. I think that the DJ option is far more time consuming and unpractical than applying a patch and doing a quick restore to physical media. People who are concerned about saves can backup them to floppy disk and restore them afterwards. I think that it would be a lot faster and easier.

There is another option. I could release small updates, which feature single file utility programs, as a patch and as an LZH archive.

As an aside, it might be fun to do intros for these patch disks. Or to commemorate releases of the HDD. Could be good experience for people who want to learn to code for x68k.

That is an excellent idea. Unfortunately I do not know how to code in fetish torture X68000 asm. Some while ago I tried to reverse engineer the floppy disk protection of Bomber Man and failed miserably so xBasic here I come. A very nice book was bundled with my ACE-HD which has excellent information and examples. However, it is in Japanese so I guess that it will need to be translated before xBasic scene will kick off.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[Neshek]

Just an idea, might be silly though.

Lots of restrictions concerning partitions, sizes...
But in my trials and errors, i had 2 partitions at a time on my x68000 hard drive. a: and b:
Cool to store MDX files. But not sure if that was safe so reverted to just one active partition at a time.

So, would it be possible to add a small fat32 partition respecting the limits of the system to the image and gain access to it through a driver on the x68000 side? It could be easier to maintain SD cards and hard disks this way. b:\update.bat and that's it.

If that partition shows up correctly on both systems, then it would be a piece of cake to put the SP on fat32 partition then update the real system.

Stumbled upon this driver so worth a try. I'll try to make some tests on emulator next week out of curiosity. Then i'll try to wipe my x68000 hard disk once i get back a SCSI card for the PC and see what happens

http://retropc.net/x68000/software/disk/scsi/fat32aig/index.htm

By the way Eidis, your message box is full ^^'

[eidis]

 Hi Neshek !

The FAT32 partition idea is very good and I think that 50Mb could be enough for the updates. This will probably be included in V5 which will be released in a distant future in a galaxy far far away.

The message box problem has been solved. Please everyone, whom I sent messages during the past two days, resend me the answer.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[eidis]

 Gentleman,

Time for another update. Neshek and Eidis proudly present HDD V4 image Service Pack 2

Get it here:
http://nfggames.com/x68000/Games/V4%20Patches/hddv4sp2.Lzh


Copy it to root directory, boot LHES, press x, type
"lha x -c hddv4sp2" without brackets and press enter.

Neshek has contributed a vast amount of awesome translations.
Thanks to him we can finally enjoy English versions of LHA,
ED.X help file and many other common system tools.

LHES was slightly modified and now can extract archives with
directory structures and without any annoying queries.

MMDSP now uses Rydeen and MXW driver which fixes previous
problems with PCM clashes and improves performance.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis (28.06.2014)

[kamiboy]

Bah, humbug! Humbug I say. I see now the problem with my oh so neat Compact XIV internal CF solution.

The darn thing is an absolute bitch to disassemble, and every time I do it I do so with my heart in my throat in fear of breaking something fragile, like those damn plastic tabs.

Barring an easy solution to getting V4 into my Compact without taking apart I fear it will never grace it.

[eidis]

 Hi Kamiboy !

Barring an easy solution to getting V4 into my Compact without taking apart I fear it will never grace it.

Actually there is an easy way and Caius pioneered it a long time ago. Mount the CF card in one of the I/O slots, if it is free, and the problem will be solved.

X68000 CompactXVI and Compact Flash card: a successful story!
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:internal_scsi_and_cf_card_mod

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[X-Col]

Guys,

I want to play Akumajo Dracula, isn't this game included on V4.

Is there an image with the patches already installed, I'm not very good at using patches and such 

Thanks
X-Col

[eidis]

 Hi X-Col !

Everything is all right. Akumajo Dracula can be found in Games2\Dracula directory. Fully HDD compatiple, this includes saving as well.

Have fun and ....

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[X-Col]

Cool!!

Thanks again Eidis!!!   

[X-Col]

Hi Guys !

Already found a bug in V4. The following games in Games2 got accidentally broken:

Algarna
Namachuukei
Square Resort

You can easily remedy the situation by editing their !Start.bat and making sure that SUBST command is pointing to Games2 instead of Games. Sorry for the caused inconvenience.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

How do you edit files?

[eidis]

 Hi X-Col !

Highlight one and press "E" key.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

[X-Col]

Hi X-Col !

Highlight one and press "E" key.

Keep the scene alive !
Eidis

Done that Eidis, how do you save the changes?
Sorry for the newbie questions!