WIP: Universal Wireless Retro Controller v2

[micro]

Good to hear, mine are running on the first charge, too.
It's been a while since you've assembled your SNES controllers. Say, did you experience any lags or hick-up's while playing?

[Grambo]

Good to hear, mine are running on the first charge, too.
It's been a while since you've assembled your SNES controllers. Say, did you experience any lags or hick-up's while playing?

None. Flawless so far 

[abduct]

I read through this thread a few times and learned some new stuff. Good job!

Have you ever thought about using the Nordic SoC instead of the transceivers? Could manage to reduce the size of the pcb a bit more by doing so, although would be a pain to solder.

http://www.nordicsemi.com/eng/Products/2.4GHz-RF/nRF24LE1

They are all QFN packages and the 4mm X 4mm package has 7 GPIO pins. It also includes built in flash memory (other versions have OTP or USB support as well).

[Zoel]

Thanks! I see that you got your LED sticking out. I like mine recessed 

And god, I hate making holes for the Mini USB socket, I really do!
I've been working on the controller PCB for the Saturn. It seems the USB socket and the LED will fit the cable with (almost) no extra work needed. Let's hope it will really work.

I got my parts in, but I haven't assemble the controller yet, but I can tell you this Micro, you can count me on buying the Sega Saturn pcb. Saturn is actually one of my favorite controllers of all time and I would love to get my hands on a wireless one and hope that I can get a receiver working on the genesis, that way I can use my Saturn controller working on the genesis.

[Zoel]

Thanks! I see that you got your LED sticking out. I like mine recessed 

And god, I hate making holes for the Mini USB socket, I really do!
I've been working on the controller PCB for the Saturn. It seems the USB socket and the LED will fit the cable with (almost) no extra work needed. Let's hope it will really work.

Ok i'm pretty frustrated cause I have no soldering experiences and every time I try to reassemble it, the mini usb socket falls off. Even though I think the hole is I created for the mini Usb is bigger then the socket itself. Hopefully I can get this done... Or else I think i'll buy another kit and ask a pro to assemble for me.

[micro]

That sucks... But what do you mean by "the USB socket keeps falling off"? I've installed the USB socket, its 4 supporting tabs are soldered to the PCB. The USB socket should be rock solid, how can it fall off the PCB? 

[Zoel]

That sucks... But what do you mean by "the USB socket keeps falling off"? I've installed the USB socket, its 4 supporting tabs are soldered to the PCB. The USB socket should be rock solid, how can it fall off the PCB? 

I think it's the shape of the hole causing the USB socket to lift each time I tried to close it. But the bottom definetly close right but something is preventing me from closing on the top. We'll at least the receiver went totally smooth for me.

[micro]

Okay, just to be clear: The USB socket is still undamaged and attached to the PCB, right?

If you have problems closing the controller, chances are that the two little PCB's for the L and R button are misaligned. Also make sure the posts aren't obstructed by the battery and its wires.

[eitnot]

Hey Micro will these boards fit in the US Version of the SNES pad?  Do you sell these as kits? or what are purchasing options?  Are you working on boards for other controllers? 

[micro]

Yes, the PCB should fit into a US SNES controller. (See Grambo's pics)

At the moment there are no sets for sale; everything's still under development. As said a few posts before, I'm working on a Saturn controller PCB currently...

[Zoel]

Okay, just to be clear: The USB socket is still undamaged and attached to the PCB, right?

If you have problems closing the controller, chances are that the two little PCB's for the L and R button are misaligned. Also make sure the posts aren't obstructed by the battery and its wires.

Not really, the usb socket fell off, and i keep trying to resolder it with no luck cause I suck at it.

At least the receiver went fine for me though.

[micro]

Hmm.... You can send the whole controller back to me and I will see if I can install a new USB socket. I hope you don't have lifted pads and/or traces... 
Send me a PM for my address if you want to send it back to me!

[8bitforlife]

When ever this project is done would anyone mind as a commission in making me 2 snes and 2 saturn controllers. I would send the controllers if needed.

These wireless controllers would help me out a lot with my disability.

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post.

[duo_r]

Waiting for these to go on sales.

Also micro I got the soldering / Dremel skills if you have some more prototypes to test.

[flagoss]

I like how they attached the memery card...Is it something possible with the atmega8 ?

[micro]

  ?!

[public-pervert]

I think he's talking about this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/N64-Wireless-Hypermode-Controller-Black-/291059745901?pt=US_Video_Game_Controllers&hash=item43c483446d

But I don't really know too.

[Zoel]

Hey, Micro I just wanted to say thanks for everything, having a wireless SNES controller is a dream come true.

I made a video to show the XRGB framemeister in action but I was using the wireless controller with it as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXzN5HgrFOw

[Alcahest]

micro, do you still plan to sell sets for SNES controllers in the future and/or did you have updated PCBs with half-circle contacts manufactured so far?
Please let us know!

[micro]

Erm, yes I actually manufactured some updated PCB's with the half-circle contacts (see first page). But I've already sold all the sets (5 in total)

At the moment I don't plan on making another batch. I'd rather finish the Saturn version but currently there's no progress because of a severe lack of time! 

[psychosync]

Hi

I just wanted to say that this project is very interesting. Having wireless controllers for old consoles that never had any good ones before, that is awesome! (forget all those IR controllers!).

You could make a small business out of this i think, with all the craze about retro gaming these days, a lot of people would like to play their old consoles with the convenience they get from playing newer consoles like the PS3 or Xbox 360: no wires!

If the price was right, i don't know let's say between 30-50$ a controller, the buyer ships his controller(s) and you ship it back. This could generate some profit i am sure. But you have a job and maybe kids etc... So i totally understand if this cannot happen.

I would buy one for the Genesis, Snes, Nes, Saturn, TG-16 .... All possible consoles!!

Anyway nice job!

[Alcahest]

Totally agree with psychosync!
I've been waiting for a DIY set or a manufacturing of new PCBs for SFC controllers.

[micro]

Unfortunately the price isn't right at the moment. 30$ won't even cover the material costs. And it also takes quite some time to hand solder each PCB. And not to mention the manual milling of the holes or the USB socket - I hate it! So I don't see a little shop coming soon.

We really have to see where this thing is going. I could imagine putting this project on www.oshpark.com (thanks again for the hint, RDC). But as it looks the upcoming Saturn PCB won't meet oshparks design standards (internal milling) so that's a bummer...

A few weeks ago I tried out a new receiver PCB for the SNES version which I had laying around for quite some time. It got two nice features for internal installation:

1) Reset function by holding Start+Select+A+B
2) integrated AND-gate for the data lines. That means it's still possible to use external controllers on the SNES. It's even possible to use a wireless and an external controller at the same time. ^^
(Though fancy peripheral devices like the SNES mouse, multitap etc. probably won't work.

Here are some pics of the internal receivers:

Mini SNES:

I've drilled a hole into the metal shield and glued in a small nut.

AV Famicom:


I was lucky to use an existing hole/screw of the mainboard to attach the receiver.

After using the wireless controllers for quite some time I can say that I'm really satisfied. There are no dropouts/lags and the battery runtime is second to none in the field of videogame controllers. I've charged the battery during autumn '13 and then frequently used the controller. Just one week ago the red led on the receiver was indicating a low battery. So I don't think you need to charge the battery more often than twice a year, even if you're playing frequently.

@Grambo & Zoel: Can you confirm this? Are you still happy with your controllers, too? 

[Zoel]

Yep I'm happy with the controllers. If Nintendo was still making Wireless Snes controller today, i'm sure it's the same quality as the one you put out Micro.

Don't feel any lag with it at all, I tried playing Street Fighter and the response time is exactly the same as a regular controller for me.

[Grambo]

I am incredibly happy with my controllers. I've used them quite extensively and I'm amazed that I still haven't had to charge them. No lag, OEM feel, amazing range, phenomenal battery life, button commands that are as reliable as a wired controller...
I'm a stickler for lag and I've worked pretty hard at keeping it as minimal as possible in my flatscreen setup. However, when I use my CRT, I'd have a hard time believing the incurred delay with your controllers could be any more than a frame (subject to processing and the speed of sound). I don't have anything to prove my theory, but it certainly feels instantaneous to me.

I will certainly support any future wireless controllers you create in the future.

As a side note, I was thinking about tossing in a couple of these into my controllers:
http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2013/06/14/new-product-inductive-charging-set-5v-500ma-max/

[psychosync]

Unfortunately the price isn't right at the moment. 30$ won't even cover the material costs. And it also takes quite some time to hand solder each PCB. And not to mention the manual milling of the holes or the USB socket - I hate it!

I don't know how much only one pcb cost comes down to, i know you order by batch and not just a single pcb. But that kind of company that makes the pcbs, is there not any that exists that can do a little more than just producing them? is there one that can solder basic things like resistors, diodes, etc...?

What i want to say is that if there was a company that can do all of that for a big batch of PCBs so you would not have to do all that soldering by yourself, maybe then with big quantities it would be feasable.

It would be cool to receive only the finished pcb by mail and then buyers would only have to remove the wired one from their contoller and swap in the wireless one.

[micro]

I'm glad to hear that, guys. 

@Grambo: That inductive charger looks very interesting. Keep me posted if you succeeded in installing it into your SNES controller. But I fear for other controllers it would be difficult to install the coil. Also, you need a very short distance between the coils which just can't be achieved on some controllers because of their form factors.

I've measured the time it takes to transmit new controller data from the wireless controller to the receiver. The mean time are just 2 ms (it can be as fast as 0.8 ms). But you need to consider that the SNES is polling the controller (=wireless receiver) with 60 Hz, the wireless controller itself also polls the button states with (about) 60 Hz, but of course these two clocks are running asynchronous. So in the worst case you can assume 35 ms lag or something like that.

Even with a standard controller you get up to 1 frame lag. If you push the button right after the controller has been polled you have to wait another 16 ms for the SNES to register the pressed button.

@psychosync: Of course there are PCB fabrication houses that also offer assembly of the PCB's. But right now I'm in the middle of the development. The whole thing isn't final yet. ATM I' won't order huge batches, and I don't wanna run a shop or something like that.  So for now I'm only adding new systems and making small batches, selling the excessive PCB's I don't need.

Speaking of new systems, I finally ordered the PCB's for Sega Saturn. I'm very excited! 

[micro]

Another batch, another system, another fail!

The PCB fits the Saturn controller nicely. BUT: I've used the half-circle contacts from the SNES controller PCB again. Huge mistake!
It turned out that these type contacts are not well suited for the Saturn controller. Now it's too hard to hit the diagonals. It's crazy... Well, better luck next time! 

[micro]

The revised Saturn PCB's have arrived a few days ago. I copied the d-pad contacts of the original Saturn controller PCB. Now the d-pad feels perfect just like a stock Saturn controller.



I'm also very satisfied how the mini USB socket and the rectangular battery charging LED have turned out. Almost no work has to be done to fit both and the result looks just great. 





I don't have a working Saturn receiver yet so I can only use the Saturn controller on the SNES but it seems alright. So next up I'm gonna write the Saturn receiver program.

[Zoel]

Awesome progress Micro. I was wondering do you have any plans on building a genesis receiver in the future?  I can't stand the Genesis Controller at all, wish I can use the Saturn controller on it.

[Grambo]

Bravo again, micro!

I also like the idea of a Genesis receiver with the Saturn controller. I'm looking forward to seeing more progress and another product!

[public-pervert]

Your work is just incredible! Amazing as always!

[cheema201]

Hi everyone,

I'm absolutely in love with this project!!!!!!!!

I don't know if you'll remember me micro, I actually put together one of the V1 controllers for the N64 (that I still use... and make my mates jealous with)

http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=4393.160

My post is the last one on that page (the one that isn't anywhere near as impressive as everyone elses )

I actually came back to the forums because I wanted to make a wireless controller for my snes... and found V2. WOW!

Reading through this thread I see that V1 and V2 will be completely incompatible. So I'm certainly going to wait until pre orders are out for V2 - rather than making a V1 and getting the V2's later.

Price is no issue either - as the N64 wireless controller ended up costing me like $200 or so (that is including the soldering iron and everything else I had to buy). But I'd do it all over again to have a wireless controller (that doesn't feel 3rd party and crap)

Looking forward to your future updates - and I'll certainly be buying both the snes and saturn kits when they are ready!

[micro]

Thanks guys!

I'll definitely check if a Megadrive receiver is feasible. But right now I'm focused on the Saturn controllers. I've made a receiver and it seems to work but I'll have to test many more games to make sure there are no problems.

I've also modded some grey japanese Saturn controllers. I'm gonna sell 5 fully assembled wireless Saturn controllers including receiver. The price will be 100€. (I'm aware that's a steep price but I need to get back all the money I've already invested in this project)

Here comes the group shot:


(Yes Zoel, the 2 white controllers are yours. I'm gonna send you a PM soon! )

[Grambo]

Wow! I'm saddened that they're for a console that I don't own, nor intend on owning in the near future, but I'm thrilled that you're still at it!
I eagerly await a solution for Genesis, NES, N64, MVS, SMS or TurboGrafx! I would definitely consider purchasing one with a Genesis receiver.

Congrats micro, they look excellent. I'm sure the quality is fantastic as usual.

[Zoel]

Wow! I'm saddened that they're for a console that I don't own, nor intend on owning in the near future, but I'm thrilled that you're still at it!
I eagerly await a solution for Genesis, NES, N64, MVS, SMS or TurboGrafx! I would definitely consider purchasing one with a Genesis receiver.

Congrats micro, they look excellent. I'm sure the quality is fantastic as usual.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-X-Nintendo-64-BLACK-Hypermode-Wireless-Controller-Pad-Retro-Bit-New-N64-/371112760315?pt=US_Video_Game_Controllers&hash=item56680b53fb

The Retrobit N64 Wireless Controller, got the looks right, but it left much to be desired. The Analog stick was way too sensitive and the grip on the center part of the controller is uncomfortable.

Anyways Grambo if you ever change your mind about the Saturn, I think it's a fantastic system, but you need to end up importing or else your selection of games become very limited. I don't think I end up picking up Saturn until the PS2 days, and  I really regret it how I never bought one sooner.

[cheema201]

Hey Micro,

I'd really love one of those Saturn controllers! (I love my saturn, but obviously I love most retro consoles )

I think I'll wait until the SNES kits are ready to go so I can have it all shipped at once (postage prices suck!) - if the Saturn controllers that are pre set up get sold off then I'll happily just buy some kits and put them into my own Saturn controllers. (the pcb is obviously for the model 2 controller, yeah?)

Thanks again for the project - loving the look of this so far.

P.S - I was hoping to get a few for the SNES. If you "pair" a controller to a receiver will it stay paired with that specific receiver?

I kind of wanted to put in different colour LED's - and have different colour receivers so that it wouldn't be confusing. So a red LED and a red receiver would go together. (I know that the LED is mainly an indicator of battery life - but the colour will still be visible even when the LED is not lit)

Would that work? or would the controllers just pair to whatever receiver is plugged in?

[wiggyx]

Is this something which you're planning on having put into mass-production at some point?  You've obviously sunk a ton of time, energy, and some money into the project already, and the results seem really nice so far 

I ask because this is something which we've been working on for a bit now and we do indeed plan on mass-producing the product.  Is this something that you would be interested in teaming up on in order to make happen?  I can front money to have the tools made and parts produced (we will produce receiver housings by way of injection-molding, so no fiddly trimming and gluing would be required on that end), and I benefit from not having to complete our R&D.  You don't have to spend the money to go into full production, while saving me the time/money developing the product from scratch.  In the end we both are able to sell a 100% turnkey product and make some money from our investments 

-wiggy
Rose Colored Gaming

[micro]

Wow! I'm saddened that they're for a console that I don't own, nor intend on owning in the near future, but I'm thrilled that you're still at it!
I eagerly await a solution for Genesis, NES, N64, MVS, SMS or TurboGrafx! I would definitely consider purchasing one with a Genesis receiver.

Congrats micro, they look excellent. I'm sure the quality is fantastic as usual.

The next thing I'll be working on will be a receiver for the Genesis/Megadrive. I've realized the need for it!
A NeoGeo receiver would be nice too. I've already made one but a dedicated PCB has to be designed yet. Also I think a Neogeo receiver should include a button mapping feature.

Hey Micro,

I'd really love one of those Saturn controllers! (I love my saturn, but obviously I love most retro consoles )

I think I'll wait until the SNES kits are ready to go so I can have it all shipped at once (postage prices suck!) - if the Saturn controllers that are pre set up get sold off then I'll happily just buy some kits and put them into my own Saturn controllers. (the pcb is obviously for the model 2 controller, yeah?)

Thanks again for the project - loving the look of this so far.

P.S - I was hoping to get a few for the SNES. If you "pair" a controller to a receiver will it stay paired with that specific receiver?

I kind of wanted to put in different colour LED's - and have different colour receivers so that it wouldn't be confusing. So a red LED and a red receiver would go together. (I know that the LED is mainly an indicator of battery life - but the colour will still be visible even when the LED is not lit)

Would that work? or would the controllers just pair to whatever receiver is plugged in?

I'm sorry, but I don't plan on making another run of the SNES PCB's anytime soon. Instead I like to move on and add more consoles. Next up: receiver for the genesis. After that PCB's for NES or Playstation 1 controllers, I'm not determined yet.

I have to say that shipping isn't that expensive. Worldwide airmail shipping up to 500g is only 3.50€; registered airmail is 5.60€. 500g are enough to ship two Saturn controllers including 2 receivers. I think even 2 or more receivers would fit.

Controllers and receivers aren't paired. They just need to operate on the same RF channel. Selecting the controller's channel is made by holding A, B or the D-Pad while turning on the controller with Start. If you want to change the channel on the receiver you press the small button on the receiver, the receiver's LED will start flashing. Now simply turn on the controller and select a channel as described above. Both receiver and controller will be using the selected channel from now on.

In pratice you won't be selecting new channels often. Assuming you got two receivers plugged into your SNES or Saturn and have 2 controllers which are indistinguishable. You don't know which controller belongs to which receiver. So just take one controller, turn it on by pressing start and you'll immediately see which receiver responds because the LED on the receiver will glow. If you have the wrong controller, just put it aside and grab the other one. You don't need to turn it off manually. Very easy... So in my opinion there's absolutely no need for different colored LED's or receiver plastic cases. ^^

Is this something which you're planning on having put into mass-production at some point?  You've obviously sunk a ton of time, energy, and some money into the project already, and the results seem really nice so far 

I ask because this is something which we've been working on for a bit now and we do indeed plan on mass-producing the product.  Is this something that you would be interested in teaming up on in order to make happen?  I can front money to have the tools made and parts produced (we will produce receiver housings by way of injection-molding, so no fiddly trimming and gluing would be required on that end), and I benefit from not having to complete our R&D.  You don't have to spend the money to go into full production, while saving me the time/money developing the product from scratch.  In the end we both are able to sell a 100% turnkey product and make some money from our investments 

-wiggy
Rose Colored Gaming

To be honest I don't know where I'm heading with the project. Right now I'm just developing and adding new systems, making small batches, selling the PCB's I don't need personally and getting feedback. I kinda intend to release the PCB files when development is completed (will it ever be?) on oshpark so people can order the PCB's. Of course, populating the PCB and programming the MCU will always be too difficult for some people.
I really doubt I'm gonna mass-produce the wireless controllers.

What systems are you planning to support? Only SNES or all the other retro consoles too? And do you want to mod genuine 1st party controllers or do you plan on even make your controller case/buttons/rubber parts?

[wiggyx]

To be honest I don't know where I'm heading with the project. Right now I'm just developing and adding new systems, making small batches, selling the PCB's I don't need personally and getting feedback. I kinda intend to release the PCB files when development is completed (will it ever be?) on oshpark so people can order the PCB's. Of course, populating the PCB and programming the MCU will always be too difficult for some people.
I really doubt I'm gonna mass-produce the wireless controllers.

What systems are you planning to support? Only SNES or all the other retro consoles too? And do you want to mod genuine 1st party controllers or do you plan on even make your controller case/buttons/rubber parts?

Well if you're ever interested in teaming up in any way shape or form, then just hit me up via our website contact form

We do indeed plan on mass-producing them.  We would love to be able to offer the parts as a plug-and-play kit, complete with our own housings for the receiver and possibly the back half of a controller shell with the notches and such required for a charge port, power switch, etc. built in.  Though, at that point, not a whole lot of the original controller would remain, so we may skip that part and just look into a solution which requires very simple modification to the shell to minimize the risk of anyone damaging their original parts beyond usability.   Like you, we'll offer pre-modded controllers and eventually modded consoles.

We may eventually just go ahead and have EVERYTHING made from scratch.  I know everyone prefers using original controllers, and if we did make our own, we would need to spend a lot of time and money to make sure that what we offer is as close as humanly possible to the originals.  There are plenty of so-so wireless options out there already, so there's no need to add another cheap product to the market IMO.  I have ZERO desire to produce something that isn't OEM quality. 

Right now the only thing on the docket is the SNES (and possibly the NES).  If they do well, then we'll probably add other systems.  The N64 would be high on the list, especially since it's just becoming collectible and has potential to be a really strong market in the retro gaming world.