Started by Shadow_Zero, May 12, 2013, 06:52:35 AM
QuoteThe capacitors are there to remove the 1V DC offset in the RGB signal - although many TV/Monitors will still display the RGB picture fine without them they are strongly recommended to help prevent any damage occuring to less tolerant displays.
Quote from: Link83 on January 23, 2009, 01:44:31 PMI just wanted to update that I tested both a PAL SNES/N64 Composite cable and a PAL Gamecube Composite cable on a PAL N64 console.Visually I couldnt see any difference using either cable (but maybe im not looking hard enough)I then decided to measure the DC offset from the PAL N64. Using the PAL Gamecube Composite cable (75ohm resistor to ground and 220uF capacitor in series) it measured 0.00V as I expected.Next I tried the PAL SNES/N64 Composite cable (75ohm resistor to ground) and somewhat surprisingly got readings betweens 0.7V and 1.35V DC - varying according to how bright the game picture was. During gameplay it seemed to average out at about 1V DC.I am not sure what effect this DC offset would have on the picture quality, but I dont think it would be for the better. I have read in many audiophile forums that having a DC offset on headphone amplifiers higher than 20mV (0.02V!) can have a detrimental affect on the sound and can damage the speakers , so I assume a 1V DC offset on Composite video would be the same/similar(?)All this suggests that to me their definitely should be a 220uF capacitor in series on the PAL N64 Composite line aswell as the 75ohm resistor to ground, and that Nintendo just cheaped out on making the PAL N64 Composite cable because they could get away with it
Quote from: Fix_Metal on July 08, 2013, 09:58:47 AMSame as what you'd need to output composite from Sony CXA encoder in SMS2 mod.That gives you some filtering (can't Bode it atm) and DC decoupling.
Quote from: Link83 on July 20, 2008, 03:35:28 AMAlso, I am curious to know why these extra compoents (75ohm resistor and 220uf Capacitor) are even neccessary on PAL Nintendo AV cables? - I had read somewhere that it was due to the 50/60hz difference also affecting the brightness levels - is this true/correct?
Quote from: viletim on July 27, 2008, 10:31:50 PMThis resistor is present on every signle PAL SNES composite cable, and it's inside your SNES SCART cable. If you leave it out you will have a distorted picture.
Quote from: Link83 on January 17, 2009, 03:02:32 AMI found a little bit of information which is quite interesting. I was looking though the support section of the Nintendo Europe website (The support section used to comprise of simply an email address, postal address and phone number - but since the site 'revamp' last year it now has FAQ sections aswell) I wasnt expecting the person writing them to have been that knowledgable on differences between cables, but it appears they did know there was a difference. These are the interesting bits:-http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/support/nintendo_gamecube_162_168.htmlQuote from: Nintendo EuropeStereo AV Cable and Scart Adapter...NOTES:The Nintendo GameCube stereo AV cable is downwardly compatible with the Nintendo 64 and the Super Nintendo. With the Nintendo GameCube, only the Nintendo GameCube stereo AV cable or other products licensed by Nintendo must be used. Do not connect a stereo AV cable to the Nintendo GameCube that is intended for the Super Nintendo or the Nintendo 64.http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/support/nintendo_gamecube_162_205.htmlQuote from: Nintendo EuropeGame has a white tintThe image problem occurs in all games:Check whether the Nintendo GameCube was connected to the TV with a Super Nintendo or Nintendo 64 stereo A/V cable (can be seen from the dark grey multi-out plug) - the original Nintendo GameCube stereo A/V cable has a black multi-out plug). Connect your Nintendo GameCube - if possible - to another TV to exclude a defect on the TV. If possible, test the Nintendo GameCube with another original Nintendo GameCube stereo A/V cable (recognised by the black multi-out plug)....Seems like the Gamecube Composite cable should work fine with all three consoles, whilst the SNES and N64 cables cannot be used with the Gamecube as it produces a 'white tint'.I think its safe to say that there should be no problems adding the 220uf capacitor for the PAL N64 - it seems it was originally intended (based on the motherboard spaces) and 'straight from Nintendo' we know the PAL Gamecube Composite cable works fine with the PAL N64. The only reason I think as to why Nintendo left out the capacitor is to save money if they could get away without it - I certainly think you should use one if you can - if it makes any difference to the picture quality or not I cant say as yet.Id be intrigued to know if the PAL SNES should have used the capacitor or not - there isnt a 'space' on the motherboard though like the PAL N64 so its hard to say.When I have time I think I will try comparing each cable on each console and note any visual diifferences, aswell as seeing if I can measure the 'DC offset' produced from each cable.
Quote from: Nintendo EuropeStereo AV Cable and Scart Adapter...NOTES:The Nintendo GameCube stereo AV cable is downwardly compatible with the Nintendo 64 and the Super Nintendo. With the Nintendo GameCube, only the Nintendo GameCube stereo AV cable or other products licensed by Nintendo must be used. Do not connect a stereo AV cable to the Nintendo GameCube that is intended for the Super Nintendo or the Nintendo 64.
Quote from: Nintendo EuropeGame has a white tintThe image problem occurs in all games:Check whether the Nintendo GameCube was connected to the TV with a Super Nintendo or Nintendo 64 stereo A/V cable (can be seen from the dark grey multi-out plug) - the original Nintendo GameCube stereo A/V cable has a black multi-out plug). Connect your Nintendo GameCube - if possible - to another TV to exclude a defect on the TV. If possible, test the Nintendo GameCube with another original Nintendo GameCube stereo A/V cable (recognised by the black multi-out plug)....
Quote from: Hojo_Norem on November 01, 2006, 05:11:18 AMQuoteThe resistor between the composite video out and ground is required to get the video to the standard signal level. It's present in the standard AV (3x phono) cable too. You can probably leave it out if you've only going to be viewing RGB (and using cvideo for just sync information). I have no idea why nintendo chose design it like this. I think its because some TVs, especially older ones don't like the composite signal to go out of standard, even when its just being used as SYNC for RGB. I have seen this happen on two sets, a old Philips based set and a not so old Panasonic. On the Panasonic the picture would tear a little on bright pictures while on the Philips (well, a Dynatron which was just a re-badged Philips) the picture would go out of sync and roll around until the picture darkened. Putting the resistor in fixed the problem. I put it in series with the composite signal and it seems to work with no problem.
QuoteThe resistor between the composite video out and ground is required to get the video to the standard signal level. It's present in the standard AV (3x phono) cable too. You can probably leave it out if you've only going to be viewing RGB (and using cvideo for just sync information). I have no idea why nintendo chose design it like this.
Quote from: unshe on March 26, 2013, 09:06:58 AM"In the Official Pal Snes RGB cable there are 4x75ohm resistors. like the viletime's diagram (http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm).But if you got the 1-chip board (there is only one PPU instead of two) i suggest to use the Gamecube pal RGB cable. I tried on a lot of Snes and the only one that is working whit the gamecube's cable is the version Snsp-cpu-1chip-01 (a mono-ppu Snes). And looks better whit the GC clable than the Snes one, IMHO. Of course It is working whit Snes cable, but it is a little dark."
Quote from: kamiboy on November 08, 2010, 11:47:19 PMOut of the two different revisions of the newer SNES's I have the very last, which is apparently very rare in NTSC. Nintendo prolly removed or added some caps from the RGB signal path while doing this last NTSC revision which made the signal incompatible with the SHVC-010 cables.
Quote from: kamiboy on November 22, 2010, 10:53:22 PMIn case anyone is interested, and for the sake of future internet archive diggers. I got my NEC XM29, and my Rev 3 NTSC/U SNES gives me the same crippled image via the official Famicon RGB21 cables.This settles it then, the third revision NTSC/U SNES has combination of resistors and/or capacitors that are not compatible with the official Famicom RGB cables.The image is extremely dark and the colours look inverted at places, which leads my to make a uneducated guess that the picture level has been brought down too low by an extra set of 220 resistors, but what do I know.Just a heads up for prospective buyers, check your SNES revision before you spend a lot of money on those RGB21 cables. Also, S-video works great.
Quote from: RGB32E on July 16, 2008, 02:16:06 AMThe PAL GC RGB and SHVC-010 are not quite the same... Since you are using the official GCN SCART cable, you have the choice of using filtered composite or composite sync (both are fed through the scart plug PCB). Which signal are you using as sync? Either choice of sync (filtered CVBS or CSYNC) will work fine on a Sony PVM, but not necessarily on other monitors or RGBS accepting devices.Some similarities between official SFC RGB and official GCN SCART cables:-R, G, and B are filtered with 220uf caps-CVBS is fed through the cableDifferences:-Both CVBS and CSYNC (or +12VDC for PAL systems) are fed through the GCN cable (only CVBS is wired/used on SFC RGB cable)-CVBS is filtered with a 220uf cap on the GCN cable (CVBS is not filtered on SFC RGB cable)-GCN cable uses 100 ohm resistor for the SCART mode setting and the SFC connects VDC through series 75 ohm resistor to the +5VDC pin of 21 pin connector.
Quote from: Salamander on October 07, 2013, 06:05:33 AMPicked up a French PAL NES for fun mostly out of curiosity of what is inside that RF box. The socket and plug for this system resemble a multi-out connector on later Nintendo systems a whole lot minus that central key tab. Its identical to the covered port on the FDS RAM adapter but has 2 pins less than the RAM adapters plug (10 instead of 12). The cable isn't too common and it terminates into SCART. From what I can tell it uses the Sony V7021 chip to convert composite to RGB. I'm sure the picture is every bit as terrible. If nothing else I think this would make a really cosmetically clean RGB console if you were to do the necessary changes to the xtal, ppu and cpu. The rear of the bottom part of the case is even already marked for RGB!
Quote from: Fudoh on August 16, 2006, 01:57:09 AMThe french NES doesn't actually output real RGB, it just uses a FBAS to RGB encoder. It's just nice to use because of the multi-AV socket and the Nintendo Scart cable which comes with it.The picture produced by the french NES without adding a REAL RGB chip is a bit more colorful than the standard video signal, but hardly any sharper.Fudoh
Quote from: Guest on January 18, 2005, 05:02:42 AMThey use SECAM for their TV format, not the PAL that (most fo) the rest of Europe use, so to avoid having to cope with another vid format most French consoles just use SCART RGB. Like Lawrence said though, it's not that great since there's just a module in place of the normal RF encoder there which separates the normal video into red, green and blue - the duplicate grounds make the port handy to convert for a stereo NES though.
Quote from: Link83 on January 11, 2009, 12:53:43 AMS-RGB BA6595F SOP24 chip used in later SNES consoles. Converts RGB into S-Video and Composite and also amplifies and outputs analog RGB.S-RGB A BA6596F SOP24 chip used in the last produced SNES consoles, the SNES2/SFCJr and an early French N64. Converts RGB into S-Video and Composite and also amplifies and outputs analog RGB. Appears to have the same pinout as the BA6595F, so is likely a slightly improved version.
QuoteThe 1chip can not output PAL60. The S-CPUN generated depending on the condition of pin 111:- PAL-like signal, 50Hz, and the PAL chrominance subcarrier frequency of 4.43 MHz- NTSC-like signal, 60Hz and NTSC color subcarrier frequency of 3.58 MHzHowever, the S-CPUN first has only analog RGB outputs (+ color subcarrier frequency), which are then converted to composite or S-Video from video encoder S-RGB. There are an input to the S-RGB, can be switched between PAL and NTSC compliant chroma or composite signal with the. That will happen in isolation from the correct carrier frequency, which is indeed provided by the S-CPUN. If you do not do the S-RGB-Mod with, so you get for the 60Hz setting:- 60Hz (S-CPUN)- NTSC color subcarrier frequency (S-CPUN)- Composite signal with PAL standard (S-RGB)So a funny mix of PAL and NTSC. This can hardly decode a television. PAL60 would be as above but with PAL color carrier frequency. This combination can be the S-CPUN not elicit. With the mod signal on the composite NTSC standard is switched, so that a low is a "pure" NTSC signal. Today The virtually any TV. If you always want to use only RGB, you can save the but.
Quote from: Link83 on November 22, 2008, 09:28:21 PMI think its a shame that Nintendo decided to 'region lock' video cables - it just takes region locking to the extreme (and I cant see any other reason why they would do it other than region locking) It meant that many PAL N64 users didnt even get a decent(ish) S-Video picture from their N64 and had to put up with the Composite/RF output.Its also interesting to note that almost all third-party Composite AV cables are designed for the NTSC market aswell, so also miss out the 75ohm resistor and 220uf capacitor - many people dont realise this and wonder why their composite picture doesnt look very good (Not that composite looks great anyway!) Also many import gamers often get their nintendo cables muddled up aswell and dont realise it makes a difference.
QuoteThanks to a little investigating by blaze3927 I found out that the NUS-CPU(P)-03-1 is not only missing SMD components for S-Video output, but that Nintendo deliberately connected the Luma and Chroma signal directly to ground, so this revision does not have any S-Video output as standard (Ninty must have been really cheap to want to save costs on four SMD components! :roll:) For anyone interested I have added a little info about this under the NUS-CPU(P)-03-1 section.
QuoteNUS-CPU(P)-03-1This revision uses the 'indented' heatsink like the NTSC NUS-CPU-09 revision. Some small differences noted between this revision and the NUS-CPU(P)-02. One key difference are missing SMD components for S-Video output, meaning this revision does not support S-Video as standard (Really cheap Ninty) The missing components can be seen on the NUS-CPU(P)-02 revision at locations DA7, DA8, C11 and C12 - these positions are no longer labelled on this revision. DA7 and DA8 are diode arrays used for ESD protection, and C11 and C12 are capacitors for EMI reduction. None of these components are strictly necessary for the S-Video output to work, but Nintendo also connected the Luma and Chroma signals directly to ground where C11/C12 used to be - this connection would need to be cut to restore S-Video output on this revision. This is probably the very last PAL revision.
QuoteUS console:NS151498299 NUS-CPU-04 NUS-001(USA) black caseJapanese consoles:NUJ12905291 NUS-CPU-04 NUS-001(JPN) black caseNUJ13281975 NUS-CPU-04 NUS-001(JPN) black caseEuropean consoles:NUP10434589 NUS-CPU(P)-01 NUS-001(EUR) black caseNUP11864798 NUS-CPU(P)-01 NUS-001(EUR) black caseNUP15859106 NUS-CPU(P)-02 NUS-001(EUR) black caseNUP16157262 NUS-CPU(P)-02 NUS-001(EUR) transparent light blue caseNUP16764202 NUS-CPU(P)-03-1 NUS-001(EUR) transparent light blue(upper)/white(lower) case
Quote from: Link83 on January 11, 2009, 12:53:43 AMBA6592F SOP24 chip used in the first produced NTSC SNES consoles. Converts RGB into S-Video and Composite.S-ENC SOP24 chip used in early SNES consoles. Converts RGB into S-Video and Composite. This is likely either a rebranded BA6592F, or it might be a BA6594F. I originally thought that it might be a BA6593F based on the numbering scheme, but a quick google search doesnt reveal any chip suppliers with stock for that code so it likely does not exist.S-ENC B BA6594AF SOP24 chip used in mid-produced SNES consoles. Converts RGB into S-Video and Composite and appears to have the same pinout as the BA6592F/S-ENC, so is likely a slightly improved version.S-RGB BA6595F SOP24 chip used in later SNES consoles. Converts RGB into S-Video and Composite and also amplifies and outputs analog RGB.S-RGB A BA6596F SOP24 chip used in the last produced SNES consoles, the SNES2/SFCJr and an early French N64. Converts RGB into S-Video and Composite and also amplifies and outputs analog RGB. Appears to have the same pinout as the BA6595F, so is likely a slightly improved version.ENC-NUS BA7242F SOP14 chip used in early NTSC N64 consoles. Converts RGB into S-Video and Composite.After the ENC-NUS Nintendo started using combined DAC/video encoders which are all ROHM custom ASIC parts (DENC-NUS, AVDC-NUS, MAV-NUS, etc)[/quot]
QuoteMotherboard Revision and DAC/Video Encoder Chip ListNTSC N64'sNUS-CPU-01 = VDC-NUS + ENC-NUSNUS-CPU-02 = VDC-NUS + ENC-NUSNUS-CPU-03 = VDC-NUS or VDC-NUS A + ENC-NUSNUS-CPU-04 = VDC-NUS A + ENC-NUSNUS-CPU-05 = AVDC-NUS or MAV-NUSNUS-CPU-05-1 = MAV-NUSNUS-CPU-06 = MAV-NUSNUS-CPU-07 = MAV-NUSNUS-CPU-08 = MAV-NUSNUS-CPU-08-1 = MAV-NUSNUS-CPU-09 = MAV-NUSNUS-CPU-09-1 = MAV-NUSPAL N64'sNUS-CPU(P)-01 = DENC-NUSNUS-CPU(P)-02 = MAV-NUSNUS-CPU(P)-03 = MAV-NUSNUS-CPU(P)-03-1 = MAV-NUS
QuoteAdding S-video is just as easy as adding RGB. The chroma signal is found on pin 12 of the video encoder, while luma is found on pin 17. As with RGB, each signal needs to go through a 75 ohm resistor (or 100 ohm if you find the image is too bright) before reaching the AV out. Chroma goes to pin 8 of the AV out while luma goes to pin 7.
QuoteThe components needed are:- Wire- 220 uF electrolitic capacitor- 100 nF polyester capacitor- 2 75 Ohms resistors
Quote from: ApolloBoy on March 05, 2014, 06:22:16 PMSince your N64 uses the same encoder as the SNES mini and 1chip SNES, adding S-video should be a fairly easy process. As I've stated in the wiki, you can add 75 ohm resistors (or 100-150 ohm if you find the resulting image is too bright) to the chroma and luma pins of the encoder and that should do it. The 220 uF cap for luma and 100 nF cap for chroma are optional but it won't hurt to have them in.
Quote from: Shadow_Zero on March 05, 2014, 07:12:58 PMAh, I found out the wiki article was from ApolloBoy.
Quote from: Nintendo64I have 3 of these and am very happy with them: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-REPLACEMENT-Joystick-for-Nintendo-64-Controller-Repair-N64-Thumbstick-Pad-/290796251684?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item43b4ceaa24The only downside is, that games like Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and Super Smash Brothers are not very playable, because the joystick is too sensitive. If you know how to solder (or know anybode who can), you can fix this issue, by replacing the actual joystick (the mechanical part inside), and changing the onboard chip. More informations here: http://s9.zetaboards.com/Nintendo_64_Forever/topic/7360571/1/Apart from this, the joystick works great with almost every game. So if you don't play these games, you do not need to modify anything. If you do play them, I would suggest to add the above modifications to it. After these are done, the joystick will behave like an original N64 controller and will be compatible to every game. I also found a german forum, where the original source code of this joystick has been improved: http://circuit-board.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=5285&start=150A part from those GC Style controllers, I tried a few different N64 Styles, but they all were worse than the GC Style. In the first link I posted, there is also a guideline, where you can see the up and downs of every available option.
Quote from: l_oliveiraNintendo 64 = Optical (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_encoder)Game Cube = Resitive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analog_stick)On the N64 moving the stick causes a wheel to spin, interrupting the light that goes through a IR sensor. The controller chip counts the pulses and it's rhythm to determine how much the lever was moved on that axis and which direction it was moved.On the GC, the controller chip measures a voltage and determines the position of the lever based on the said voltage. 50% of main power voltage = lever on the middle.
Quote from: Electric RainAll third party N64 controllers (that I know of) use pots. The first party controllers use what they call a "Transistor Slotted Interrupter" for each axis.
Quote from: Jeppex83You don't find brand NEW ORIGINAL thumbsticks/joysticks anymore. I have asked almost every contries official Nintendo repairment stores and they dont have them anymore. Luckily I got 2 Brand new pieces at price of 15 EUR. And they was last ones.Everything that they sell on internet are 3rd party thumbsticks, for examples:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BRAND-NEW-NINTENDO-N64-REPLACEMENT-THUMBSTICK-JOYSTICK-/290645455925?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item43abd1b435#ht_1690wt_1148http://www.ebay.com/itm/25-NEW-Thumbstick-Joystick-Repair-for-NINTENDO-64-N64-/390313982308?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae086b964They say: "This is the rounded GameCube style joystick" or "These are a very high quality 3rd party NEW thumbstick"Photo are taken upwards and they look like original thumbstick, but they are just same like this:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-REPLACEMENT-Joystick-Nintendo-64-Controller-Repair-N64-Thumbstick-Pad-/290665768846?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item43ad07a78eIt would be just stupid to buy a big bulk of 3rd party thumbsticks..You don't find NEW ones anymore, only 3rd party or used ones...Or if you find new controller/thumbstick, the price would be more than 50USDSorry mate
Quote from: ng7I tried the 3rd party replacement stick and wasn't all that impressed with its movement compared to the original.I decided to try the 'tape' fix as seen in this YouTube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkAv07lRdhM and to my surprise, it worked fairly well. Now don't get me wrong its clearly not as good as it was when it was new but its a marked improvement on how loose it was and is preferable - In my opinion at least to the poor 3rd party sticks and pads.For the sake of five-ten minutes and a piece of tape (that can be removed if your not happy with the results) its got to be worth a try.
Quote from: l_oliveira on March 20, 2008, 01:56:52 PMNTSC NES CPUs run on a 21mhz master clock. (NTSC color carrier clock 6 times)PAL NES if I am not mistaken runs on 17mhz (PAL B/G/H/I color carrier clock 4 times)That alone makes it complicated. The PPU is different because it has different video timmings and require a different clock frequency.And the CPU is made to run at 17mhz too, so it won't work. Putting a PAL CPU on a NTSC NES will give you a high frequency sound and overclocked CPU/games crashing. I've tried it myself. Trust me it ain't nice XD.
Quote from: l_oliveira on September 20, 2008, 01:04:10 AMThe PAL nes in truth it doesn't run at 17.734476... In truth it does run at 26.601714 (4.433619 x 6) and in the case of the SNES they use a 17.734476 crystal and a prescaler/pll device to adjust the frequency to PAL color carrier x6. I bet the PAL NES instead use an actual 26mhz crystal instead. (I've never seen a original PAL NES but I have a PAL CPU/PPU/Crystal combo from some famiclone I converted to NTSC)