Power Monster II & BlackMonolith sandwich combo for Compact?

[kamiboy]

Looking at the website of Stratos Technology today I noticed they were selling something called the BlackMonolith which seems to an external SCSI connector solution for their Power Monster II CF interface cards.

This thing looks pretty nifty, especially if the setup is compatible with a X68000 compact, and if it does not need any form of external power to be connected to it.

From the documentation it seems to me that you can connect this sandwich to certain Macs without any further power connectors involved. Anyone know whether that would be possible for the compact as well?

[efs]

Where is this website located?

[kamiboy]

http://www.artmix.com/CF_powermon_II.html

http://www.artmix.com/BakMonolith.html

[kamiboy]

After doing some research it turns out that connecting this thing to a Compact is an involved affair.

The Compact external SCSI port is a 50 pin mini Micronics. To connect that to the 25 pin D-sub port on the BlackMonolith requires a mess of cables and adapters, but should be possible if you track down and buy all the parts.

As a minimum you seem to need a Mini 50 pin SCSI to regular 50 pin cable plus a 50 pin SCSI to 25 pin D-sub cable in combination with whatever gender changing adapters are needed based on the genders of the cables acquired.

Computers, eh, gotta love 'em and their devil may care attitude towards standards.

[kamiboy]

A question though. Both my floppy disk drives seems to be permanently out of order. If I copy the eidis disk image to a CF and work it into my Compact via the aforementioned setup will I be able to get my compact to boot it without having to first boot into human68k via a bootable floppy and do some setup?

Will compacts automatically try to boot from SCSI if there is nothing bootable in the floppy drive or will I need a working floppy drive for initial setup?

[lydux]

Well, it depends on your actual SRAM configuration : with factory settings, it will try to boot from floppy and nothing else.
You will need to boot human68k first in order to run switch.x, activating the boot from the internal scsi rom and configure the boot order.

However, I've faced similar problem with my very first 5' floppy based x68000. It has an hard drive, but I did not have any human68k on 5' floppy by this time.
The trick I used consist of preparing the hard drive on an scsi capable PC, and hooking the x68000 RS232 line to my PC using a null modem cable. Then activating the remote debugger inside the IPL by holding the OPT2 key and powering up the x68000. This way, I were able to communicate with the whole machine using a terminal emulator, so I've modified the SRAM where the boot configuration take place in order to boot from the hard drive.

The trick is easier than it looks like. You just need a null modem cable (DB9 <--> DB25) and of course a pc with an rs232 port.

Interested ?

[caius]

On newer models like Compact you should be able to boot from SCSI HD without any particular setup - if I remeber well - though here:

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:hard_drive_on_sasi_machine

it's mentioned thay you have to run switch.x and set BOOT to SCSI3.Try yourself and let us know.

P.S.
I can say that I totally removed the two FDDs from my CompactXVI (since they are not working) and I'm able to boot from 2GB Sansdisk Compact Flash inserted in a Compact flash--->IDE adapter + IDE---> SCSI converter.

[kamiboy]

Well, it depends on your actual SRAM configuration : with factory settings, it will try to boot from floppy and nothing else.
You will need to boot human68k first in order to run switch.x, activating the boot from the internal scsi rom and configure the boot order.

However, I've faced similar problem with my very first 5' floppy based x68000. It has an hard drive, but I did not have any human68k on 5' floppy by this time.
The trick I used consist of preparing the hard drive on an scsi capable PC, and hooking the x68000 RS232 line to my PC using a null modem cable. Then activating the remote debugger inside the IPL by holding the OPT2 key and powering up the x68000. This way, I were able to communicate with the whole machine using a terminal emulator, so I've modified the SRAM where the boot configuration take place in order to boot from the hard drive.

The trick is easier than it looks like. You just need a null modem cable (DB9 <--> DB25) and of course a pc with an rs232 port.

Interested ?

My SRAM battery arrived DOA, I soldered it out and I have yet to find a replacement, so my SRAM is long gone.

Anyway, I believe that I do have all the required parts for the above. I have an old DOS machine,  and I think I have a DB25/DB9 cable somewhere.

I just ordered the SCSI CF parts though, so it is likely going to be a few weeks before they arrive. But until then I can try and see whether I can get your trick to work or not.

How do you communicate with the X68000 using DOS? Any particular program one has to use?

What commands would I have to send to the compact to get it to reverse the boot order.

It is quite the oversight for Sharp not to give users a way to boot from external SCSI drives without having to boot into human68k first. All they needed was to make it an option by holding down a key or something.

Any chance that might be an option that is just not general knowledge?

[caius]

It is quite the oversight for Sharp not to give users a way to boot from external SCSI drives without having to boot into human68k first. All they needed was to make it an option by holding down a key or something.

They give the opposite, you can force to boot from floppy  holding down OPT.1 during boot.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure in Compact model you don't need to change the boot order executing switch.x but you have only to restore an HDD (like the Eidis one) into your CF.

About RS232 communication setup , you can read more here:

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:file_transfer_between_windows_pcs_and_x68000_machines_using_null_modem_cable

[kamiboy]

According to Canada post my PowerMonster II sandwich is in town, so I should have an answer to that question by tomorrow.

[kamiboy]

I really do hate computers.

So, I connect the sandwich to the compact and no dice, of course.

To make things worse after a minute or so I notice that unmistakable smell of electronics heating up beyond safety levels, so I yanked the old power cable. Turns out the sandwich, especially the CF card was super hot. Time will only tell whether something was damaged or not.

I was very careful with wiring the CF to the compact correctly, so I have no idea what is wrong.

Sort of hoping it is the jumpers but deuce if I can figure out what some of them do.

Can someone help me with these following details?

What does the RST jumper do? Should it be on or off? What SCSI ID should I assign to the CF for it to boot? I think it was set to 3 by default.

Oh yeah, I've set the CF to be powered by terminator power, anyone else made that work?

Could someone look at the pdf manual for the power monster II linked in the page below and help me through this?

http://www.artmix.com/CF_powermon_II.html

[caius]

Please, post how do you setup your connections (SCSI wiring, power, etc..) and will try to to help you.

[kamiboy]

Last night after several hours with a multimeter I found out that the main problem was that the SCSI pinout diagram was mirrored according to how it is on the port of the Black Monolith. The pinout must have been given according to the device you are connecting it to. What a mess, what were they thinking providing users with a mirrored diagram. That is why a bunch of signal pins were being connected to ground and vice versa.

The Black monolith is clearly meant to just plug into a SCSI port.

Anyhow, once I mirrored the connections there was no longer any cables getting hot and the Power Monster II power led actually turns on.

Still no dice with booting though. Could be that my 8GB flash is not compatible, or the earlier diagram error killed either the flash or power monster.

I follow the wiki guide for connecting the solder pads to the Black Monolith SCSI port using jumper wires.

If anyone could give me their Power Monster or AztecMonster jumper setting that might help.

[caius]

Did you mean the pinout in this datasheet was wrong?

http://www.artmix.com/pdffiles/CF_PM_Manual2_203_Eng.pdf

[kamiboy]

No, it is the SCSI port diagram on the Black Monolith pdf which is mirrored, as if you are looking at the Minolith input port from behind.

http://www.artmix.com/pdffiles/BakMonolith_Manual_Eng.pdf

I confirmed this after discovering that several signal pins had a direct connection to ground which made no sense to me. First I thought it was my wiring, then I confirmed that the ground connection only showed up when said wires were connected even just to the bare Black Monolith board.

Then I  thought maybe the problem was with shorts on the Black Monolith solder point and confirmed that it was not. When I looked at which pins had GND connections it suddenly clicked, it was only pins that had a corresponding GND in the mirrored direction.

I suppose the Black Monolith is not stricktly necessary when trying to do an internal mod, but I thought it was neat because it lets you power the SCSI CF board via TERM power from the solder pads.

Here is picture of my setup:

[kamiboy]

Anywaste guys, assuming that the CF board is now wired correctly and is not fried, I would appreciate some help in making the Compact boot from it.

I need the following information:

What SCSI ID should I assign to the CF for the compact to boot from it?

I thought maybe it would make sense to try and assign it ID0 and flip the switch on the back of the Compact to make the internal floppy drives secondary to external devices, but that does not seem to work. Assigning SCSI ID3 also does nothing.

Furthermore, should the termination jumpers be enabled or not?

If anyone with a compact and CF SCSI setup could reset their S-RAM and see whether they can get their machine to boot from the CF without a Human68K floppy and what SCSI ID the CF had then that would help me a lot.

Right now I do not even know whether I fried my $200 wunder board thanks to the ridiclous PDF manual or not, so it would help to narrow things down.

Cheers

[caius]

Hi, first of all please post a diagram of the connections you used for wiring your PowerMonter II to SCSI connector (by the way you follow my  guide here http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:internal_scsi_and_cf_card_mod and installed sockets on SCSI daughter-board?)
Then, I think the BlackMonolith card is useless so you can connect the PowerMonterII directly to CompactXVI.
Then , since you have no access to any FDD, restore the Eidis Image to the CF, them assign ID3 to the PoweMonsterII, personally I get best result with PARITY and TERMINATION jumpers set to OFF (with these ON sometimes I got random freezes or boot errors). BLOCK SIZE jumper also is set to OFF.
If everything it's correct, you should boot from CF without changing the order of the boot sequence through the "switch" command executed in DOS, by default the boot order is set to 'STD' so the machine will first try to boot from floppy disk then from other peripherls if  if no disk is present.I'm quite sure of this but I'll check later and let you know.

[kamiboy]

Yeah, I put sockets on the daughter-board. The diagram I follow is the wiki link you provided for SCSI daughter-board pinouts and combined that with the Black Monolith pdf for its SCSI port pin configuration, only mirrored.

Unfortunately I have to use the Black Monolith since the Power Monster board has no junpers of its own, so I cannot even assign SCSI ID.

As for the jumpers you mentioned the Black Monolith does not have any for parity or block size.

I have triple checked my wiring and the CF does not boot. I do not even get a single access light blink at any time.

I think eithet the Power Monster II does not work in this setup, or more likely it is fried.

I wish I could confirm one way or the other.

[caius]

OK, focuse your attention on the GROUND signals, I had a similar issue when I tried my CF setup (it didn't recognize any CF) and it was due some missing GROUND signals.Connect alla GROUND signals between the SCSI daughterboard and PowerMonster II.Keep us informed.

[kamiboy]

All ground pins on the Black Monolith are connected to ground pins on the daughter-board. The daughter-board has a few too many ground pins though, there is nowhere to connect them to on the Black Monolith so I left those unconnected. Cannot imagine that is causing problems since all ground pins seem to be connected on the daughter-board anyway.

On monday I'll write the maker of the Power Monster an email asking whether there is any way to confirm whether the unit is fried or not. I doubt there is any without access to a SCSI capable device such as an old Macintosh which the Black Monolith is designed to work with.

I will also have to warn him about the mirrored diagram on his pdf being the potential cause of fatal misunderstandings.

This whole X68000 endeavour has so far been a costly disaster. I am half tempted to auction it away and cut my losses.

[caius]

 

All ground pins on the Black Monolith are connected to ground pins on the daughter-board. The daughter-board has a few too many ground pins though, there is nowhere to connect them to on the Black Monolith so I left those unconnected. Cannot imagine that is causing problems since all ground pins seem to be connected on the daughter-board anyway.

If I remember well, my problem was just few GROUND pins left unconnected.

This whole X68000 endeavour has so far been a costly disaster. I am half tempted to auction it away and cut my losses.

Never give up!I'm pretty sure your problem depends from insuffcient GROUND.The best thing to do would be tie all GROUND signals of the SCSI daughterboard  each other (yes, I know, they are already connected each other but try anyway) and then connect one of them to the GROUND of the PowerMonster II.

[kamiboy]

I actually thought of doing that but figured it was a waste of effort since they are all connected anyway.

In any regard that is about the last thing I can try, I'll give it a go and report back.

[kamiboy]

Tried it, but it changed nothing.

Maybe the Power Monster II does not work with the X68000.

Are these SCSI to CF boards fussy as far as Flash cards are concerned?

I have a Sandisk 8gig Extreme IV card.

[caius]

Tried it, but it changed nothing.

Maybe the Power Monster II does not work with the X68000.

Are these SCSI to CF boards fussy as far as Flash cards are concerned?

I have a Sandisk 8gig Extreme IV card.

Try another CF, I succesfully use  a standard 2GB Sandisk.I don't think PowerMonster II is not compatible with X68000.If you will not succeeded , you can always change it as the seller said"If you had a defective card, we exchange it"

[kamiboy]

If the card is defective then the fault is most certainly with the initial fatal mirrored wiring I did according to the provided diagram.

I think he mentions that they are not responsible for errors made due to misunderstanding. I'll shoot him a message today. I really think he should change the diagram on the Black Monolith pdf.

[kamiboy]

Well, according to Sakai, the maker of the devices, X68000 users have reported success with the Power Monster II.

I am not sure if it is the language barrier but I seem to have trouble explaining to him how the pinout  diagram in the Black Monolith PDF is the mirror of the actual pinout on the Black Monolith.

The pinout in the pdf is correct for old Macintosh devices and such but since the Black Monolith faces such a device when plugged into it then it would have to have the mirror pinout for matching pins to plug into oneanother.

It makes sense when one thinks of it, but it is certainly not intuitive when trying to do ones own wiring.

[kamiboy]

I am really having a tough time trying to explain to Sakai that while the pin config in the Blacks Monolith pdf is correct for the device that the Black Monolith is supposed to plug into, such as a Macintosh, it still is not correct for the Black Monolith itself. The Black Monolith has to have its pin out be the reverse otherwise the pins will not connect right.

Below is my latest explanation. You guys try and see whether I made it clear enough or not. If I still fail to explain my point then I would appreciate a Japanese speaker here perhaps try and convey it to Sakai in lieu of a denser email chain:

No, the actual pin arrange is as below:



They are mirrored.

I will try to explain why with a few pictures. If the pin arrange of Macintosh and Black Monolith were the same then it would result in short circuit when they are connected. You can see why below:




But since Black Monolith pin arrange is mirror of Macintosh, when they connect they face each other and therefore the correct pins will connect:



I hope my explanation is not too badly made. If it does not make things clear then I will ask you to do a simple test. Try to put a finger on the TPWR pin on a Macintosh and one finger on the Black Monolith TPWR pin. Then try to connect them and see if your fingers will touch when Macintosh and Black Monolith pin arrange is not mirrored.

Regards

[kamiboy]

Okay guys, I am going to need help on this one.

No matter how I explain myself I do not seem to be able to get through to Sakai.

I mean if you have two 25 pin plugs in front of you then a simple finger test will reveal why one has to have the opposite pin arrange for their pins to line up.

Just put each plug next to eachother, put a finger on the first pin then try to plug them into oneanother and you'll see each finger end on opposite ends.

Can anyone with sufficient Japanese language proficiency please help explain this situation to Sakai?

There is a dangerous error in the pinout diagram of his Black Monolith pdf that can cause users like me to wire things in a way that will cause short circuit, potentially ruining both the expensive SCSI interface and whatever it is connected to.

I just need him to understand that.

Or maybe he just does not want to admit to any mistake, I don't know.

I think his dagram cost me the Power Monster though. I am pretty sure it was fried.

[caius]

The SCSI pinout showed in the Black Monlith datasheet is right because Sakai  refers it to a FEMALE connector (and not to the male connector of the Black Monlith), see here:

http://pinouts.ru/HD/ScsiExternalAmigaMac_pinout.shtml

So if you connect the Black Monolith MALE 25PIN connector to a SCSI 25 Pin D-sub FEMALE connector (like the one present on Macintosh), the respective signals will match.
I think you've fried the Power Monster by grounding TERM POWER signal.Ask Sakai if he has provided a sort of protection  (diode or fuse) on the PCB.

[kamiboy]

Yeah the diagram is 100% correct for whatever device you plug the Black Monolith into, if you are planning to use it with a device with such an input at all that is. But why would he put the pinout of some other device on the Black Monolith datasheet when the Black Monolith has the mirror opposite pinout.

Anyone doing their own wiring from the Black Monolith datasheet is going to fry their SCSI interface before realizing the pinout on the Black Monolith sheet is not for the Black Monolith, even though it is in the datasheet for the Black Monolith.

Also the datasheet pinout dagram just says "25 pin SCSI pin Assign", nowhere does it mention male or female.

All I want him to do is change the datasheet so it has both pinouts in it.

Also I would love to know whether my $200 investment is now a paperweight or not.

[caius]

Also I would love to know whether my $200 investment is now a paperweight or not.

You can buy one of this cgeap SCSI card and try if your PowerMonsterII + CF get recognized:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR2.TRC1&_nkw=adaptec+scsi&_sacat=0&_from=R40

[lydux]

Every DSUB connectors should have pinouts number physically engraved on a side or the other either for male and female to avoid pinouts order misunderstand.
The one on your Black Monolith as well. I'm pretty sure its pdf manual is in accordance with this numbering.

2 golden rules when doing freestyle wiring :
- Carefully check for these engraved pin numbers.
- Test at least for every ground signals before powering the hardware.

Now, well...
It's not clear with pictures I have, but I do see some kind of fuse on the PowerMonster II : a big green smd component near the flash.

[lydux]

Oh yes, there is also a fuse to check for on your X68000 side :

[kamiboy]

If the fuse had popped then the power led on the Power Monster should not come on when I turn on my X68000, right?

I did manage to save what looks like a SCSI card from the old company electronic bin. I can try and see if I can get it to work and try to wire this thing to it this weekend.

As to the pinout fiasco, I do not see any numbering on the Black Monolith SCSI port.

Extra precautions aside, I think having the proper pinout in the manual would be a great start.

[caius]

Are you powering on the PoweMonster II directly from the SCSI daughterboard?I will try to power it from +5V of CompactXVI power supply instead.

[kamiboy]

I've already tried an external +5V source, it changed nothing.

[kamiboy]

This is a SCSI card, right?

[caius]

Please, post the model of this card.It seems it uses a DC37 connector , not very usual for SCSI , maybe used in Novell®
and Procomp like shown in these pinouts:


http://old.pinouts.ru/HD/NovellProcompSCSI_pinout.shtml


http://www.blackbox.com/resource/files/productdetails/17972.PDF

First ensure it's really  a SCSI card and not a floppy or parallel one. Keep us informed.

[kamiboy]

No idea about the model, it has no distinguishing lettering or numbering on it anywhere. What numbering and lettering there is I've googled to no avail.

I found that datasheet myself when trying to figure out whether there were any SCSI cards with 37 pins, and from the sheet there certainly seemed to be, that is why I started to suspect that the card might be useful.

Today I'll try installing it into an old PC and see about measuring the pins to confirm whether it corresponds to DB-37 SCSI or not.

If the card is not SCSI or I fail to get it to work then I'll just ask Sakai whether he is willing to take back the Power Monster II and Black Monolith and exchange them for a AztecMonster card.

If he refuses then, well, that is it folks. That X68000 is going directly on ebay, I've had it. Instead of haemorrhaging more money on a very chic paperweight I am better off spending it on a Neo Geo. As far as gaming hardware on the exotic end of the scale is concerned the Neo Geo, being a console, at least just works.

Maybe in a few years I'll give X68000 another gander.

[caius]

About the card, try googling the number part stamped over the various ICs, I think you shoud hit the main SCSI controller (provided it's a SCSI card).