Trying CF Mod in X68000 XVI CZ-634C-TN...

[Dhampird]

Hello, finally i could try the CF Mod, but for now i couldn´t format correctly (i think so) the 1G CF card.
I built SCSI 26 Pin Cable to 50 Pin, i´m using Yamaha V769970 SCSI adapter and IDE to CF Adapter showed in pictures below. I have a 1G CF card, i´m following:

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:hard_drive_on_sasi_machine

The first problem found it is that when i try to format with scsiformat.x  and the software ask me for my SCSI ID: and i type 3, the software ask me again and again for SCSI ID after select twice times Y. In the image below you will undesrtand better this:



If i´m right the software dont let me format the CF card, after that I continued with the installation of the above link, i get this SWITCH after make changes to STD, originally the SWITCH was setted like BOOT > ROM > $ED0100 :



Now, if i turn ON the X68K without disk i get this in X68K boot:



Also tell that if i place the Boot Disk again, the above display boot dissapears but i noticed that the ECHO OFF now is diferent, and seems like neither responds the enter key, anyways i could set commands like switch.x again, but seems like now the boot disk load different like corrupt? Now the ECHO OFF displays like:

BAD (now):

A>ECHO OFFA>

GOOD (before CF installation):

A>ECHO OFF
A>(cursor)

Here you could see some pictures about CF adapter and Jumpers in Yamaha V769970 SCSI adapter ( i think the parity is enabled):





Then, will be great to know how can i format the CF card? It seems that something is wrong with the SCSI ID, i think the cable install is OK.
I´m planning also set the EIDIS image to the CF after solve the format problem.

Thanks for read&Help.
Regards.

[eidis]

 Hi!

The jumper settings for SCSI to IDE and CF adapter are correct and your device is being detected at ID3. The SXSI SRAM window indicates that no device was found. ID0 should always be reported as "SASI UNIT". You should see something similar to this:

http://gamesx.com/wiki/lib/exe/detail.php?id=x68000%3Ahard_drive_on_sasi_machine&media=x68000:bootscreen.jpg

Please check your cable with a multimeter. I think that there could be loose contact somewhere. if everything is good, try to use this masterdisk:

http://nfggames.com/users/eidis/MasterDisk.zip

Please be aware that X68000 is quite picky about modern hardware so it would be advisable to try connecting different CF, 2.5" or 3.5" hard drives and testing them too. The only thing you need to change with switch.x is BOOT variable to STD. It means that the system will first try to boot from floppy disk and only then from hard drive. It can come in handy if the hard drive refuses to boot You can take the easy route and restore my image to your CF using Active @Disk Image v4.0.4 or newer and you will be spared from formatting the CF. After restoring the image, the system should boot to Lhes file commander.

Best of luck and keep us posted !

Eidis

[Dhampird]

Hello EIDIS, thanks again a lot for reply, i tried the MasterDisk.zip you told me, i noticed that this Masterdisk have some differences with respect to mine that i built followed install CF tutorial, anyways i didnt get good result, same happened, after press the Y twice, software asking me again for SCSI-ID. I tried also an old IDE 6G Seagate Harddrive attached to Yamaha Adapter, no good result, now the ECHO OFF problem related above begin again, probably cable installation is wrong, to try verify my cable install i I added a diagram with colored-cable that I used:



Please tell me if you know the diagram like good or bad. I´ll check with polimeter tomorrow if all wires are OK installed, i mean  with perfect conection to the sockets to check bad conection or something.

Thanks a lot again.
Regards.

[eidis]

  Sorry, me bad ! I was a little bit careless and did not pay attention that your system has native SCSI. Everything starts to come into its places. Most probably your cable is OK but the SxSI driver tried to use SASI interface. You have SCSI so you will need a different driver. I made a special bootdisk with SxSI SCSI driver just for you. You can download it here:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/2545733/x68000-boot-disk-with-sxsi-scsi-driver-509k?da=y

This disk contains the latest SxSI driver, including updates. SxSI first needs to load IOCS driver and then SCSIHD.SYS driver. IOCS can be SASI (most common) or SCSI (for the lucky ones ). My previous disk was based on SASI and that's why, most probbably, your system hang when the floppy tried to deceive it. Here is the altered config.sys file from the new masterdisk. The only difference from previous masterdisk is the DEVICE    = \SXSI\SCSIIOCS.SYS line.

FILES     = 30
BUFFERS   = 20 1024
LASTDRIVE = Z:
KEY       = \KEY.SYS
USKCG     = \USKCG.SYS
BELL      = \BEEP.SYS
DEVICE    = \SXSI\SCSIIOCS.SYS
DEVICE    = \SXSI\SCSIHD.SYS ID=3 X68SCSI.BRP IBMSTD.BRP 98SCSIHD.BRP
REM DEVICE    = \SYS\SCSIDRV.SYS /ID3
DEVICE    = \SYS\PRNDRV.SYS
DEVICE    = \SYS\RSDRV.SYS
DEVICE    = \SYS\FLOAT2.X
DEVICE    = \SYS\ASK68K.SYS /DB:\X68K.DIC /E\ASK\ENV1.ASK
DEVICE    = \SYS\OPMDRV3.X #180 /P64 /OPM
DEVICE    = \SYS\FDDEVICE.X
DEVICE    = \SYS\IOCS.X
DEVICE    = \SYS\HISTORY.X /D\HIS\ /SH2,8,4
ENVSET    = 512 \STARTUP.ENV
EXCONFIG  = \SYS\CONFIGED.X


If you are able to format the hard drive using the new masterdisk.xdf but bootset.x does not work, try bootsett.x instead.

I examined your cable diagrams and found some strange bits. First of all check out my 20pin, 26pin, 50pin cable pinout comparison table:

http://content22-foto.inbox.lv/albums152083674/eidis/X68000/SignalLines.jpg

I'm not sure about pins 15, 19 and 23. But it definitely looks like pin 16 is not wired correctly. Please try the new Master Disk with SCSI drivers before tearing your cable apart. The cable still could work.

15 - 33 - (15 - GND) (33 - Unknown) = ***Disconnect***
16 - 34 - (16 - HD Access LED) (34 GND) = ***Disconnect***
19 - 39 - (19 - GND) (39 - Unknown) = ***Disconnect***
23 - 45 - (23 - GND) (45 - Unknown) = ***Disconnect***

Best of luck and sorry for the inconvenience.

Eidis

[Dhampird]

Hello EIDIS, thanks a lot for the fully help, thanks a lot for the SCSI Disk, i tried the new Boot Disk with same cable and didnt work again, then  following your pinout guide i saw that i had a pinout incorrect, was:
PIN50 (34) > PIN26 (15), then i rebuilt that signal cable but same problem again, after that i disconected all wires that was no present in your table and i mantain only same signals like your table shows, now, after disconect the others signals when i load the boot disk and after scsiformat.x there is none hardware present once i set SCSI-ID to 3.

Mmmm, it seems like the cable have some problem or needs another pinout configuration, i´m working testing the cable signal with a polimeter...

Here is a more detailed diagram that shows the build that i made following your table signals:



After that i found a Japanese web with a relationship between 50PIN and 26PIN, but is a lot different:

http://ht-deko.minim.ne.jp/x68ktune.html

About A>ECHO OFFA> problem related more lines above, i think the problem was that the Joystick was conected in PORT A, i tried sometimes without it and seems now the ECHO OFF displays OK, i dont really sure if this was the problem.

I´m working checking the signals with polimeter, i think that the cable is good crimped, problem should be any signal that miss or is wrong conected...


Thanks a lot again for the help.
Regards.

[eidis]

 Hi!

We are getting very close. The reason why pinouts from before mentioned Japanese site are different is because they are meant for external connector. That's why data lines start with pin 26

http://pinouts.ru/HD/ScsiExternalCentronics50_pinout.shtml

We are using these pinouts:

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:hard_disk
http://pinouts.ru/HD/ScsiInternal_pinout.shtml

Right now we have several disconnected lines:

12 - 18 - PARITY
13 - 26 - +5V(Termination power)
14 - 32 - /ATN
16 - HD Access LED
19 - GND
23 - GND

Try reconnecting pin 12 and see what happens. Do the same with pin 32 and then both of them simultaneously. Try to remove parity jumper from your SCSI to IDE adapter. It could be that there is insufficient grounding. You can try reconnecting pin 13 and removing termination jumper as well.  Right now we have reached a state where anything goes as long as there will be positive results

Best of luck and keep us posted,
Eidis

[Dhampird]

Hello, thanks again for fully help, apparently it seems that i got manage CF format, i´ll try to explain:

First, like you said, i tried reconecting in 50 PIN SCSI signals: 18 (PARITY) / 26 (TERMINATION POWER) / 32 (ATN) , i tried one by one and all together, no changes found. Also i tried combinations with PARITY jumper Scsi YAMAHA adapter. No changes found.
Then i rewired  all GND PINS showed below in the new diagram install, i dont know really how many GND Pins are needed to get SCSI cable perfectly work (will be great to Know to avoid too much cable), then to avoid problems i regrounded all of them GND signals in the conector, i only leave this signals no conected to 50 PIN conector:
PIN25 / PIN35(HD LED)
About PIN35(HD LED) i draw a led in the diagram, i think that is the way to install the led, if i´m wrong please tell me.

Diagram:



Well, after try with that configuration the CF format didnt work, same happened after try Y and Y, the system ask me again and over again the SCSI-ID, but i noticed that if i pressed Y and N the system seems like was busy, with cursor in blinking state. After that i tried a 6G SEAGATE IDE HardDrive and after press one time Y (if i remember right) the system recognise the hardrive and the format first menu showed below, after that i get another CF card, a 4G Sandisk CF and same happened, if i did Y and Y again the SCSI ID question, but if i tried Y and N the format menu showed below.

Appart error conections related  above posts, it seems like the 1G AFAYA is recognised but dont let run with format options.

Finally the SCSI cable is OK, i think, but the problem now is to get make bootable the CF card, to format i following instructions posted in another post:

CD SxSI
SCSIFORMAT.X
3 (Select SCSI_ID)
Y (First ask message)
N (Second ask message)

2 (Create a partition)
A (Allocate all available free space)
32 (32 or 31?)
Y (Transfer system file Human.Sys)
A (Transfer from A drive)

4(Set bootflags)
1 (Partition 1 shows to me inp<=15)
0 (Make partition bootable)
8

REBOOT (to reboot y press RESET in machine, i dint know if this is the way or there is needed type a command for that)

bootset.x  (install Bootloader in SRAM)
ED0100
1
switch.x (change BOOT to STD)
REBOOT (again RESET in machine)
copyall a:Y*.* c:Y (Y japanese code instead \)

EJECT FLOPPY A: SCSI BOOT DISK

After that, the machine shows 2 times  the boot SxSI Menu, there is no real devices detected in both . I can access to C: Drive with the files copied before. I tried with PARITY Yamaha Jumper OPEN/CLOSE, it seems like the PARITY with CLOSE (Jumper Installed) stop sometimes booting floppy secuence with a typical white error disk window. With PARITY Jumper released the machine boots ok and also the ECHO OFF displays correctly. Now i have it released.

Then i get your CF  image and i restored it with Active@ Disk Image v4.0.4, i unzipped the file  and only i load the X68000.dim file in the Disk Image to begin restore image to CF. In machine i can view all your image files and folders, but i couldn´t get the CF booted up , this is DRIVE command result:



The SWITCH that i have now is the same posted image above post, i dint know if i need to configure SRAM option with SWITCH.

Thanks a lot for help.
Regards.

[eidis]

 Hi !

We are almost there. Sorry for being so lazy. This time I simulated your situation using an emulator. First of all boot from human302.xdf, run switch.x and set BOOT to SCSI0

This should do the trick. You might want to clear the SxSI bootloader from SRAM aswell.

Download SRAMLOAD.Lzh and run sram_clr.r on your X68000 to clear sram.

Get it here:
http://retropc.net/x68000/software/system/sram/sram_clr_r/index.htm

P.S. If after clearing the SRAM you get an error message instead of insert floppy disk prompt, hold OPT.1 while pressing reset button to boot from floppy.

Best of luck  and keep us posted !

Eidis

[Dhampird]

Hello again! Sorry for delay in reply, I've been very busy these days;  i tried more tests and finally i got that your CF image booted sucessfully from XVI,  anyways the method tried is not clear for me, i´ll try to explain:

After use SCSI MasterDisk method to format the CF, i didn´t get the bootloader screen shows up (recognise) the SCSI Device, also sometimes the bootloader menu appears in screen but not always, sometimes appeared 2 times with no SCSI device detected,  in my last post i talked about after restore your CF image i didnt get to boot it, now i can, the problem was that i needed set the BOOT to SCSI3, other boot types like SCSI0 or STD not works. Now the CF image works and boot up perfect ,but SCSI boot menu dont appear in screen, once the X68K is ON the screen stills BLACK 6-7 seconds, after that i get this boot image:



After that screen, the CF program run.
I tried some times with 10Mhz and 16Mhz, also with Scsi Yamaha PARITY ON or OFF, and works, i remember that one time i get an error showed image below with 16Mhz and Yamaha PARITY=OFF:



I have to try more times to know if it is a common problem or if something specific is wrong.  

To Know more clear details about the format process, here are some points what happened to me during the installation process:

*Using SCSI MasterDisk format method*

- To avoid some problems i used SRAM_CLR.R (to clear SRAM bootloader), before that i tried SRAMSAVE, i get a .DAT file.
-System only recognise SCSI_ID3  to format the CF.  
-After all MasterDisk format process i have in BOOT this options:
SCSI 0-7 / 2HDO / 2HD1 / 2HD2 / 2HD3 / RAM0 $ED0100 / RAM1 $ED0C40 / ROM $FC000C / RAM $ED0100 / STD
-After finish formating process the SCSI boot menu appear with no SCSI device detected, the boot selected is STD, same happen with Yamaha Parity ON-OFF, after this the SCSI boot screen disappear in nexts REBOOTS (only is showed BLACK screen instead boot scsi menu)
-If BOOT is in SCSI0 system ask for Diskete, the CF no boot ( in the CF is all system floppy files copied from A: MasterDisk SCSI)
-If BOOT is in SCSI3 the system starts from CF card ( in the CF is all system floppy files copied from A: MasterDisk SCSI) like A: drive.
-After restoring EIDIS CF image, boot ok if BOOT is in SCSI3, no scsi menu displays.

*Using FORMAT.X method*

- I tried 4. 裝置初期化 : means "initialize device(format)"  with the EIDIS image instaled in CF , to try reformat again. The program dont let me format the CF card, i mean, after press 4. Option, the program ask me to select with a Japanese Menu Y or N that display in the screen below, after press Y the system emited sound like a BEEP. Seems like the software dont let me reformat the CF with FORMAT.X¿?

The CF image works, but will be good to know if that conclusions-problems are normal or not, will be great manage right the FORMAT.X tool but i dont know why i couldnt. I´m worried about SCSI cable install because i dont know if may be guilty  for some of the problems described above.

Will be great solve that problems, got SCSI menu appear, change SCSI device to 0 (to not use 3), manage with FORMAT.X, etc.

About CF image, is there any change to install more games into it from PC or X68K? is there any way To QUIT a game after is loaded to return main menu? I´ll need a little manual to manage this fantastic CF loader...

Thanks a lot again EIDIS for fully help and sorry again for delay in reply.
Regards.

[eidis]

 Hi !

Basically all you needed to do after restoring the image to CF is set BOOT parameter with switch.x to SCSI3. There is one more thing which I found out only after writing my tutorial. You need to disable DMA on your SCSI to IDE adapter to avoid data corruption.

CTRL + OPT.1 + DEL   = softreset

You can add more games to the CF image with the latest DiskExplorer:

http://hp.vector.co.jp/authors/VA013937/editdisk/index_e.html

The image can be opened in DiskExplorer. Just launch DiskExplorer, select SxSI.HDS and choose Human68K HDD SCSI

That's it ! Have fun

Can I use your awesome pinout diagrams to expand my tutorial ? It would be nice if you could draw the same style diagram for SASI cable. Thanks in advance

Eidis

P.S. If you can load and run games, then your cable is fine.

[Dhampird]

Hello EIDIS, finally i could try SCSI0, i had to change the Yamaha Jumpers to set the device in SCSI0 position, i uploaded the Yamaha V769970 SCSI manuals here:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YS2CZ4IL

In that manuals there are Yamaha V769970 jumper settings diagrams to configure SCSI_ID  from 0 to 7.

I´m confused about disable Yamaha V769970 DMA, the DMA, is the same than PARITY jumper?

Thanks a lot again for the info about Diskexplorer, i tried to mount some disk images and the process worked, but now the problem is how can i run that games once from X68000?, i mean that i saw that in your image most of games had a START.BAT! option, i will need to know how load that new games instaled in CF card and especially knowing how try same with games with more than 1 disk, how could i recognise what lines-files depending on game are neccesary to edit a fully works start.bat for the games ...?

About diagrams i´m just finished edit new ones, SCSI&SASI for you, i sent them to your mail that appear in your profile, let me know when you receive and please check the diagrams if you see any error please tell me.

Thanks again for help.
Regards.

[eidis]

  Dhampird,

I could kiss your feet and cry out of joy ! Those diagrams are gorgeous !

First of all:
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:hard_drive_on_sasi_machine

And now my present for you:
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:led_board

Thanks again for a big contribution to the scene. Stay tuned for one more wiki article

Eidis

[Dhampird]

Hello, I am pleased to have been helpful, thanks a lot for the HD LED tutorial, i´ll try it, now i´m building a RGB SCART cable and trying get info to build a simple MIDI cable for use with MIDI board CZ-6BM1, for not mix that themes with this post I will open others soon.

If you have some time please comment as far as possible about this questions:

-about disable Yamaha V769970 DMA, the DMA, is the same than PARITY jumper?
-I tried to mount some disk images and the process worked, but now the problem is how can i run that games once from X68000?, i mean that i saw that in your image most of games had a START.BAT! option, i will need to know how load that new games instaled in CF card and especially knowing how try same with games with more than 1 disk, how could i recognise what lines-files depending on game are neccesary to edit a fully works start.bat for the games ...?

Thanks a lot again for fully help, EIDIS.
Regards.

[eidis]

Hi !

Sorry for the late reply. I'm not really sure if Parity jumper is the same as DMA. There is only one reliable way to test it. If when writing a lot of files, let's say trying to copy three floppy disks to HDD at some point you get an error which you clearly see is connected to the hard drive, then DMA is most probbably enabled.

Eidis

P.S. I have opened a new topic regarding game installation to HDD. See you there

[Dhampird]

Hello! sorry also for delay in reply,  thanks a lot for the installation HDD tutorial, is a nice guide to begin to learn how start to move things in HD/CF, i´ll try... Mmmm, will be great in future create a fully image with all X68000 TOSEC games and other software that works from HD, i think this will be a lot of job for one person and another problem probably (i´m speculating) is the idea to make a CF image with all TOSEC games because the 1G limited size partition problem, i dont know how much size will be necessary with all X68000 Games available and also Software and Magazines, etc.

About Yamaha  DMA, i´ll try that you said soon and then i´ll post here results.

Thanks a lot again for fully help.
Regards.

EDITED: I´m just finished copy some 5.25 disks from X68K to CF, i copied 5 disks of the game DEAD OF THE BRAIN, i noticed than CF disk in X68K now is recognise like A: and the floppies are B: and C:, i copied all file disk to GAMES2/DEAD folder in CF and i get no errors in transfer process.

[eidis]

 Hi!

The defice from which X68000 boots is mapped as A: by default. The current size of all games in my image is approximately 100MB. Back then I wanted to create compilation of best games for X68000 and in someway I succeeded. I could make a mega image, only dedicated to games but that would also mean that many crappy games and software will be there. Do we really need that ? Wouldn't it be better if anyone who saw that  "nameofthegame" is missing would fill a request and I would see to it that if this game is good enough, it will be added ?
About the DMA. If you have it enabled, better disable it. It is very advisable.

Best of luck !
Eidis

[Dhampird]

Hello, i think you´re right, better thing will be select any important game more and try to add to the CF image, if i have some time, i´m also busy with a MSX mod, i´ll try to select any more game and if i´ll problems adding it to the CF i´ll ask you if will be possible run from CF or not. For now also i´ll have to test all game included in the CF, i tested a few only.

About DMA i tried to find more info about if Yamaha V769970 could deactivate DMA, i´m investigating about it, probaly anyone read this and could solve it with some info.

Thanks for the help.