Super Famicom RGB modded won't play Yoshis Island 2

Started by Fab, October 24, 2009, 06:52:33 am

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Fab

hi there,

I have a an RGB modden Super Famicom that means the cable leads outside the SFC not trough the normal video output. Unfortunatly I can't get to work the japanese yoshis island cartridge. I think the super fx2 chip on it
will make some troubles with the rgb mod.

The screen is slightly disturbed and stretched and sometimes the game makes constantly resets.

Anyone knows that problem ?

EDIT:

Problem Solved: USE MEGA DRIVE POWER PLUG

NFG

A simple video mod will not affect your SuFami.  If your game doesn't work there's probably something else wrong.

Also, Yoshi's Island carts are notorious for breaking on their own.  They die, a LOT.  Are you sure the cart works on other machines?

Fab

Quote from: Lawrence on October 24, 2009, 08:33:45 am
Are you sure the cart works on other machines?


I tested the card with an unmodified SFC. No problem the game will work there. I first thought the same but the cart is fine. So there mus be something with the mod. Maybe I should the some other SUPER FX Games if they will work

NFG

Did you do the mod yourself?  Is it possible someone else tried to do a region mod on it as well?  It seems to me some games don't like the region fix.  Not entirely sure if YI is one of them...

Fab

no I got it from ebay. The Picture is better IMO than with a normal RGB Cable...

I don't know much about this mod. I always thought the SFC has itself RGB output via video out. But this mod has an extra cable leading out the SFC

NFG

There are several reasons your cart will fail, but it's not because you have RGB.  Something else has gone wrong.  =(

Fab

Quote from: Lawrence on October 24, 2009, 06:01:17 pm
There are several reasons your cart will fail, but it's not because you have RGB.  Something else has gone wrong.  =(


and what are those reasons ?! Why does it work perfectly on another SFC ?! All other SFC Cards work fine

NFG

As you mentioned earlier, could be the FX chip.  It uses extra pins in the cart port, they may be dirty or worn out.  I cannae find a list of games that fail to run with a disabled lockout chip, but YI might be one of them.  Might also be bad karma - have you been a good boy?

Fab

Quote from: Lawrence on October 24, 2009, 06:42:54 pm
Might also be bad karma - have you been a good boy?


that might be the reason....

nah here is a list with games that uses special chips

http://wiki.pocketheaven.com/SNES_games_with_special_chips

have you ever heard of this RGB SFC mod ? Maybe there is a special chip inside the SFC that causes problems

l_oliveira

Honestly, if I were you I would check the cartridge slot throughly. The cartridges with special chips very often require unusual signals from the system such as interruption and clock and without these, the special processors on the cartridge won't operate properly.

A system with a damaged cartridge slot may work with ROM only games but still fail games with special chips.
Corrosion on the board is also a possibility. As I just said, inspect your system throughly.  And no, definitely it's not about your RGB mod.

Fab

I couldn't recognize anything bad at the cardridge slot.

here is a video of this drama

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm8JbxAgZQs

Hamburglar

Probably the problem is you're trying to use a DS game in a Super Famicom... :P

An interesting note, although there may be other board revisions, every Yoshi's Island I've come across does not use the extra connectors, they go nowhere, the cartridge generates it's own clock signal, unlike every Starfox I've encountered, which take their clock signal off of the Super NES/Famicom.

l_oliveira

Reseting like that could be something related to the lockout chip on the console. Have you tried disabling it ?
It could be also power issue. As the cartridge has an extra processor the system will need a bit more power than what it would need for a normal rom cart.

If you record a normal ROM cart with the camera you used would you still get the stripes on the video ? I'm wondering if the strips came from the LCD screen video refresh.

Edit: or if that's a CRT then definitely the strips come from the screen refresh.

Fab

I get these stripes only on certain games. Mario Kart is also a candidate. Then again mario Kart also uses a special chip.

what can I do ?!

Fab

by the way the resents aren't all the time... sometimes I can play the game but it has some flickering....

Link83

What are the ratings on the power supply you are using? (Do you have a picture of the label?)

phreak97

I'm betting the power supply too.. have you got another one to try it with? should be 10V DC and at least 850mA.

very strange problem you have there though. Is it the japanese version of the game? or are you trying to use an import adaptor?

It's interesting that you have an rgb cable hardwired into your console, because the super famicom does output rgb through the av connector.

the previous owner could have done anything inside.. can you get the right screwdriver to open the console? knowing if the lockout chip or ppu's have been messed with would help.

Fab

Quote from: Link83 on October 26, 2009, 09:18:50 pm
What are the ratings on the power supply you are using? (Do you have a picture of the label?)


Could be a important point. I live in europe so I don't have a 110 v electronic circtuit. I'm using the AC Adapter for the PAL SNES. I thought the output is the the same as japanese one...

here the facts
INPUT AC230V/240V ~5ohz 17w
Output AC 9v 1.3A


Link83

October 27, 2009, 05:02:53 am #18 Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 12:00:07 am by Link83
Quote from: Fab on October 27, 2009, 04:52:16 am
Quote from: Link83 on October 26, 2009, 09:18:50 pm
What are the ratings on the power supply you are using? (Do you have a picture of the label?)


Could be a important point. I live in europe so I don't have a 110 v electronic circtuit. I'm using the AC Adapter for the PAL SNES. I thought the output is the the same as japanese one...

here the facts
INPUT AC230V/240V ~5ohz 17w
Output AC 9v 1.3A




:o You can't use a PAL SNES power supply on a Super Famicom (Well you obviously can, but you will get the sort of problems you are currently experiencing!) As phreak97 has already stated, they both have totally different power requirements - the crucial difference is that the PAL SNES needs AC, and the Super Famicom needs DC.
The Super Famicom needs:-

DC10V 850mA / Center Negative / Plug Outer Diameter 5.5mm / Inner Diameter 2.1mm

You need to get a new power supply with the above ratings, the easiest way is probably to buy a Mega Drive 1 power supply for your country which should be perfect for the job.

Hopefully no permanent damage will have been done to the Super Famicom.

Fab

 ::) ::) ::)

well it worked well execpt on some special chip games.

can I use the power adapter from the AV Famicom ?

phreak97

woah.. I'm suprised it worked at all, you can very easily kill things by giving them ac when they want dc. definately dont plug that in there again.

I dont know what the av famicom power supply specs are, but if it's got hvc-002 as the model number on the plug pack then it's ok, the super famicom and regular famicom power supplies are the same. but yeah, otherwise a megadrive 1 power supply will work.

I had crazy issues with a snes when I was younger, it turned out to be because the dc adaptor I was using just didnt have enough current capability, I hadnt imagined AC would do anything except fry it. it must be accidentally half rectifying the ac or something.. not cool to run it like that.

Fab

here is is the hvc-002 spec

  AC-Adaptor

MODEL HVC-002

AC100V 50/60Hz 18VA

DC10V 850mA

+ ------ C------- -


my mega drive power adaptor has only 12va instead of 18va. Whould that fit ? Are the Genenis and PAL Mega Drive power supplies identical ?

Midori

Quote from: phreak97 on October 27, 2009, 07:25:41 amI hadnt imagined AC would do anything except fry it. it must be accidentally half rectifying the ac or something.. not cool to run it like that.


There are guite a few European users that I know that actually power their Super Famicoms with PAL adapters, it most often works so people keep doing it. I shiver every night thinking about it...

At least the German consoles has a different power plug. Why all PAL Snes units doesn't have this plug is a mystery.

Fab: The VA is not important. Don't bother about it, the Mega Drive adapter has more than enough power, actually more than the hvc-002 adaptor.

It is higher because it is a 100V adapter. So it requires twice the current that a 200V adaptor would require. Since 200V is twice as much as 100V :-) If it was a european 200V adapter then the VA would be 9. But it has still little to do with the power it produces for the console so you don't need to bother about i really.

The Genesis and PAL Mega Drive power supplies deliver identical electric power and has the same plug. So yes, those are the same.

Link83

October 27, 2009, 12:20:06 pm #23 Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 12:29:10 pm by Link83
The HVC-002 is the original adaptor used not only for the AV Famicom, but also the original Famicom, Super Famicom and Super Famicom Jr. - so it will work fine with your Super Famicom :) (It even says to only use the HVC-002 adaptor on the silver sticker on the bottom of the Super Famicom)

However, you probably already know this but the HVC-002 adaptor is designed to accept 100V, not the 230V commonly used in Europe, so you would likely need to use a stepdown aswell. It may be easier to just use a Mega Drive 1 power supply from your country to avoid buying/using a stepdown.

Quote from: Midori
At least the German consoles has a different power plug. Why all PAL Snes units doesn't have this plug is a mystery.

Really? I didnt know that - how weird. Do you have any pictures of the German SNES power socket/plug?

Fab

ok Problem solved now. Yoshis Island 2 will run correct now since im Using MD Pal Power Plug.

I used the pal cord for years. I don't think its damaging the SFC as it's supplying less volt than it actually needs

And for the RGB Mod. I'm sure I get the better picture with this mode than when I use a RGB Cable on the video output. Or has it something to do which RGB Cable you you use for the SFC?

thanks all

phreak97

great to hear you got it working.

the voltage isnt the issue with the pal snes cable, you could give the snes anywhere from about 7V through to 14V and it would probably work, the issue is that it's AC (alternating current) which means it cycles between positive and negative voltage at 50 times per second..
which means 50 times each second youre cpnnecting the power to the snes backwards. I too cringe at this.

Midori, I have a pal snes here with german writing on the sticker on the bottom.. it has the same plug as my aussie snes, and my nes. the western ntsc consoles have a different connector.. is that the one you mean?

Midori

It is not the same plug as the US Snes. The adapter is called NES-002EU or NES-002E and has a blue plug. It has a really thick pin in en console, my guess is that it is a 3,1 mm one. You can not plug in the usual Snes power adaptor in it without strong violence. I believe it has the same physical plug as a PCE Duo unit.

I do have one here but my camera is hating me for the moment. Will have to see it if will continue to do this for the rest of the day...

phreak97

all my pal adaptors have blue plugs. I only have australian adaptors, but they fit the german snes.. Ill check model numbers etc tomorrow cos im actually in bed on my phone:p
I actually put the german motherboard into an australian snes casing cos the snes was dead and the german casing is badly yellowed. I never had any issue with cables. Do you have another pal region cable which actually doesnt fit? Why on earth would they make any pal regions different from one another?

Midori

October 28, 2009, 12:02:52 am #28 Last Edit: October 28, 2009, 12:04:55 am by Midori
Here is a picture. I may not look much but belive me. Trying to insert a Mega Drive PSU into the PAL snes is nothing short of impossible. Although inserting the PAL PSU plug into the SFC is possible, don't know if it makes good contact though.

SFC on the left, notice the wonderful cheese colour the case has got.


edit. first version of this post was fail :-)

Link83

October 28, 2009, 12:37:55 am #29 Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 12:34:40 pm by Link83
Ah, but thats comparing a Super Famicom to a PAL SNES, I thought you were saying the German PAL SNES used a different power socket to all other PAL SNES consoles, which is why I thought it was so strange. However thats doesn't seem to be the case judging by your photo.

I measured the plug on my PAL SNES power supply using a digital calipur and it appears to have a 2.5mm inner diameter, so im guessing the Super Famicom uses the much more common 2.1mm inner diameter?

Sorry to take this thread off topic, but out of curiosity has anyone measured with a digital calipur all the plugs/pins on all the regional variations for the NES/SNES/Famicom/Super Famicom? I think it might be good Wiki material. I can say that the PAL SNES uses a barrel plug with a 5.5mm outer diameter and a 2.5mm inner diameter (I forgot to measure the barrel length but will do it later) I'm assuming the PAL NES uses the same socket(?) as they both use exactly the same model of power supply - NES-002(XXX)

I think it would be good if we could get some digital calipur measurements of the plug outer diameter, pin diameter, and barrel length for the following consoles:
US NES (NES-001) or NES 2 (NES-101) socket and official adaptor plug (NES-002)
US SNES (SNS-001) or SNES 2 (SNS-101) socket and official adaptor plug (SNS-002)

...plus any one of the Japanese systems such as; Famicom, AV Famicom, Super Famicom, or Super Famicom Jr.  socket and the official adaptor plug (HVC-002) as they should all be identical.

If anybody has the time to take some measurements with a calipur I will try and make a Wiki page for the info  :)

Also, does anybody know the real reason why Nintendo kept changing power requirements and plug sizes? They could have easily stuck with the standard 'DC10V 850mah' they used for all the Japanese systems, but they seem to have decided to keep changing power requirements for other countries - I presume to discourage importing? I cant see any other logicial reason  ???

<EDIT> Changed a few words in this post as I forgot that I measured the inner diameter of the plug, not the actual socket pin.

Midori

Quote from: Link83 on October 28, 2009, 12:37:55 am
Ah, but thats comparing a Super Famicom to a PAL SNES, I thought you were saying the German PAL SNES used a different power socket to all other PAL SNES consoles, which is why I thought it was so strange. However thats doesn't seem to be the case judging by your photo.


No, I am pretty sure most PAL snes consoles uses a 2.1 mm plug just like the SFC, only that they use AC. I would love to have someone prove me wrong though since it would make more sense but I am quite certain that the PAL 002 and PAL 002EU/002E has different plugs.

Alc

I've just compared my SFC to my UK PAL SNES and it's exactly as pictured by Midori.

As it happens I'm having a similar problem, so hopefully someone may be able to shed some light on it. To save my fingers I'm going to copy and paste the details from another forum (apologies for the repetition if anyone knows me from Assembler too):


I've got a 32M NTSC Super Wild Card DX, running on a Super Famicom (SHVC-001) in RGB. When I turn it on it looks fine in the menu, but the video starts flickering after a few seconds of playing a game.

Doesn't matter whether the game is on cart, floppy, or even if it's the built-in tile game - the image becomes flickery. In one game (Umihara Kawase) I can just about tell that the game isn't running as fast as it should be (about 25-50% of the speed), although the music is running at the normal pace.

My TV can cope with 60Hz signals.

The SFC works fine without the SWC plugged in.

Both the SFC and the SWC are being powered by Megadrive PSUs, rated at 10V/1.2A. As I understand it these should be perfect. Tried swapping them over, no difference.

The SWC has its own internal tests, it passes these but flickers on the first of them.

Any ideas?

Link83

October 30, 2009, 01:17:27 am #32 Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 03:40:56 am by Link83
Quote from: Midori on October 28, 2009, 02:25:23 am
Quote from: Link83 on October 28, 2009, 12:37:55 am
Ah, but thats comparing a Super Famicom to a PAL SNES, I thought you were saying the German PAL SNES used a different power socket to all other PAL SNES consoles, which is why I thought it was so strange. However thats doesn't seem to be the case judging by your photo.


No, I am pretty sure most PAL snes consoles uses a 2.1 mm plug just like the SFC, only that they use AC. I would love to have someone prove me wrong though since it would make more sense but I am quite certain that the PAL 002 and PAL 002EU/002E has different plugs.


Ok, well I am happy to prove you wrong!  :D ;D

Heres pictures of three different label designs on UK PAL SNES power supplies, two are 'NES-002(GBR)' and one 'NES-002EU(GBR)', all use exactly the same blue power plug:-


Two UK SNES base labels, the early UK SNES says "USE WITH AC ADAPTOR NO.NES-002-GBR ONLY" and the later one says "USE WITH AC ADAPTOR NO.NES-002E(GBR)/NES-002EU(GBR) ONLY". Theres also a picture of the rear of a UK SNES:-


And heres digital calipur measurements of the blue power plug used on all three UK power supplies:-


My measurements are not precisely perfect (Pretty hard given the small sizes) but it looks like the PAL SNES plug is 5.5mm outer diameter, 2.5mm inner diameter, and probably a 9.5mm barrel length (Quite hard to measure the barrel length by eye) Pretty much a 'standard' 2.5mm barrel connector.

It looks identical to your German SNES PSU socket to me ??? Plus the PSU model numbers are exactly the same (Just a different country code and plug)

I'm guessing the Super Famicom PSU uses a 2.1mm barrel connector instead? (5.5mm outer diamater, 2.1mm inner diameter, 9.5mm barrel length) I dont own a HVC-002 though so cant check myself. Anybody care to measure the plugs on the official US NES PSU (NES-002), US SNES PSU (SNS-002), and a Japanese HVC-002 PSU plug?

Oh and Alc, i'm sorry but I have no ideas whats causing your Wild Card DX not to work properly. I would definitely try and clean the cartridge contacts though if you havent already tried.

Midori

Then I'll pronounce your words true until I can prove them wrong :-)

I'll have to question the local Snes fanatics a bit.

The SFC uses a 5.5mm outer diamater, 2.1mm inner diameter, 9.5mm barrel length connector. Just as you suggest :-)

Shadow_Zero

July 27, 2013, 08:41:12 am #34 Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 07:00:15 pm by Shadow_Zero
Did this get on wiki yet?
So what do we know now?

Famicom / Super Famicom
DC 10V, 850mA
AC100V, 60Hz, 18VA
Plug Outer Diameter 5.5mm
Inner Diameter 2.1mm

PAL NES / SNES / US NES
AC 9v 1.3A
AC230/240V, 50Hz, 17W
Plug Outer Diameter 5.5mm
Inner Diameter 2.5mm

US SNES
DC 10V, 850mA
AC120V, 60Hz, 17w
?
?