About PAL-60 mode

[simonbelmont2]

I've modded my Mega Drive, Super Nintendo, Playstation 1, Playstation 2 and GameCube .
My consoles are PAL. All of them support NTSC games and my TV support PAL; NTSC; PAL-60.
Do you think all of my consoles now support PAL-60 if I put a NTSC game?
For example: If I put an NTSC game on my Playstation 1 it will play in PAL color with 60HZ or it will be PAL-50?
Thanks!

[Hojo_Norem]

If it's output refresh rates your interested in (cause I hope you are using RGB connections to completely bypass all that PAL/NTSC colour encoding rubbish) then AFAIK:

SNES and MD only output 60Hz if their associated 60Hz/NTSC mod switch is on, software make no difference here however the N64 uses software based switching.
The PS1 and PS2 AFAIK usually boot in their home refresh first and the software USUALLY switches to it's home refresh but only if the software is coded to do this.  Some games don't bother setting the refresh on startup and leave it at the system default (Grandia 2 NTSC on a PAL Dreamcast comes to mind).  Practically all hard/soft mods allows you to force the system refresh on bootup so you can get around this.

I can't comment on the Gamecube so I guess what I said for the PS1 and PS2 allies here also.

[simonbelmont2]

From what I've read somewhere, after you've modded the SNES PAL/Megadrive with the switch for 50/60 Hz and play an NTSC game, the game will be output in PAL colors with 60 Hz (PAL-60). This is correct or it is a hoax?
Thanks!
Anyway it's sad what you say butter_pat_head...  This means I have to buy only NTSC consoles to support all my NTSC games in fullscreen and 60 Hz...

[l_oliveira]

It depends on the internal design of the console.
Some consoles switch the internal video encoder to NTSC when the video changes to 60hz.
Others just switch the refresh.

Some common consoles:

Master System   hard wired, selectable through a jumper, color carrier frequency will remain on original setting unless clock crystal is replaced
Megadrive           hard wired, selectable through a jumper, encoder follows setting from VDP, color carrier frequency will remain on original setting unless clock crystal is replaced
NES                       hard wired within processors and not switchable. Requires replacement of both CPU, PPU and oscilator crystal.
SNES                     hard wired,  selectable through video chip pins (hack),  color carrier frequency will remain on original setting unless clock crystal is replaced

Playstation         Software selectable, color carrier frequency will remain on original setting unless clock crystal is replaced
Playstation 2    Software selectable, color carrier frequency follows video settings

Dreamcast         Software selectable, color carrier frequency follows video settings

XBOX                  Software selectable, supports natively PAL-60 in some games, color carrier settings are fixed for the native region the console is intended for
XBOX360          Software selectable, supports natively PAL-60 in some games, color carrier settings are fixed for the native region the console is intended for

As you see ... On some of these consoles the color format will change to NTSC but the original 4mhz carrier frequency for PAL will still be in effect meaning it will be black&white on most TV sets.
A few select TVs are capable of syncing with such weird configurations because it detects the color frequency and format separately. Still no manufacturer is obligated to support such alien configurations.

If I were you I would follow butter_pat_head and hook them all with RGB.  Saves you a *LOT* of hacking inside the consoles.

[simonbelmont2]

L_oliveira what about Gamecube? About RGB, I used RGB cables .
So, from what I've understand if I play an NTSC game on my modded PS1 PAL with RGB cable the game will be played in PAL color with 60 Hz, correct?
Anyway thank you very much for the info.

[Hojo_Norem]

From what I've read somewhere, after you've modded the SNES PAL/Megadrive with the switch for 50/60 Hz and play an NTSC game, the game will be output in PAL colors with 60 Hz (PAL-60). This is correct or it is a hoax?

Its true for the SNES, but not for the Megadrive.

Anyway it's sad what you say butter_pat_head...  This means I have to buy only NTSC consoles to support all my NTSC games in fullscreen and 60 Hz...

I didn't say that.  First of all, any game when run at 60Hz will pretty much be fullscreen.  Most cartridge based machines allow you to force the refresh with a switch mod.  Most disc based machines the refresh is controled via software and in some cases requires a modchip or firmware softmod to force the machine to the correct refresh before starting the game.

So, from what I've understand if I play an NTSC game on my modded PS1 PAL with RGB cable the game will be played in PAL color with 60 Hz, correct?

Incorrect.  When a RGB cable is used then THERE IS NO PAL OR NTSC!  Only 50Hz and 60Hz.   If you plug that RGB cable into a compatible socket on your TV then EVERY game you play will be in colour regardless of region.  When you use a RGB cable all you have to worry about is making sure you have the region lockouts disabled and if needed, refresh rate correctly set.   If you aren't getting colour from some of your games the I would suspect your cable or TV.

[simonbelmont2]

Incorrect.  When a RGB cable is used then THERE IS NO PAL OR NTSC!  Only 50Hz and 60Hz.   If you plug that RGB cable into a compatible socket on your TV then EVERY game you play will be in colour regardless of region.  When you use a RGB cable all you have to worry about is making sure you have the region lockouts disabled and if needed, refresh rate correctly set.   If you aren't getting colour from some of your games the I would suspect your cable or TV.

I have no problem about the color but what I want is to play all my NTSC games on 60 Hz not 50 Hz...

Then I think I will change back to my NTSC consoles (NES;  SNES; N64 RGB modded) and Megadrive switched to 60 Hz. The rest of them (PS1 SCPH-102 modded with a chip with some serial numbers; PS2 SCPH-77004 modded with modbo760;  GAMECUBE PAL modded with xeno) I will try to "force" the signal to play my NTSC games on 60 Hz.

For all of my consoles I have RGB cable (not NES ).

By the way butter_pat_head, what this means:

Incorrect.  When a RGB cable is used then THERE IS NO PAL OR NTSC!

? If is not PAL or NTSC then what is?
Thanks!

[albino_vulpix]

By the way butter_pat_head, what this means:

Incorrect.  When a RGB cable is used then THERE IS NO PAL OR NTSC!

? If is not PAL or NTSC then what is?
Thanks!

PAL and NTSC are ways of encoding all the colour components into a single signal, so it can be sent down one wire. RGB does not have PAL/NTSC because the colour is not encoded.

[simonbelmont2]

So... from what you say albino_vulpix the PAL RGB, NTSC RGB don't exist? only RGB exist? 

[simonbelmont2]

I find that if you use RGB cable for PAL/NTSC console (if the consoles support RGB signal) the PAL/NTSC games will be viewed in RGB color (not PAL/NTSC).
Albino_vulpix I think PAL RGB and NTSC RGB exist; the differences are speed (50/60 Hz) and video (widescreen/fullscreen).
If anyone know other diffrences please tell me.
Thanks!

[Hojo_Norem]

I find that if you use RGB cable for PAL/NTSC console (if the consoles support RGB signal) the PAL/NTSC games will be viewed in RGB color (not PAL/NTSC).

That is 100% correct.

Albino_vulpix I think PAL RGB and NTSC RGB exist; the differences are speed (50/60 Hz) and video (widescreen/fullscreen).
If anyone know other diffrences please tell me.

PAL RGB and NTSC RGB do not exist!  PAL and NTSC are just colour signals.  You can have PAL60 AND NTSC50.  Also 'widescreen' / fullscreen don't mean anything either.  With 50Hz region games they are usually poorley converted, sometimes due to the cost/time/memory expense of redrawing tons of 2d art and as such the 60Hz resolution image is just shown with the unused lines left blank.   PAL and NTSC are just colour signals.  Proper 50Hz conversions will utilise more, if not all of a 50Hz screen's increased resolution.  You can have PAL60 AND NTSC50.  When they don't we get the classic letterboxing effect.  PAL and NTSC are just colour signals.

[l_oliveira]

The country I live in uses a custom variation of PAL-60 video signal for SD TV broadcast.
It's called  "PAL-M" because it's based on USA's original M broadcasting system form B&W TVs but it uses PAL encoding for colors.

USA SD TV equipment work properly here for the most part but images will be in B&W.

[jdtheretro]

So, just asking, my tv is just a regular crt with 60hz refresh rate. could i play video on said tv in 50hz?

[simonbelmont2]

Sorry to revive this old thread but I have 2 question:

1. The PAL and NTSC signals are applicable only through the RF-Out and Composite connection? (I was thinking about the black and white image problem).

2. If you use S-Video instead of  RF-Out and Composite the problem with the black and white image will disappear?

[albino_vulpix]

Sorry to revive this old thread but I have 2 question:

1. The PAL and NTSC signals are applicable only through the RF-Out and Composite connection? (I was thinking about the black and white image problem).

2. If you use S-Video instead of  RF-Out and Composite the problem with the black and white image will disappear?

PAL and NTSC are applicable to any video connection method that uses a chroma component. It is the C in Y/C (s-video). So it applies to RF, composite and s-video. So if RF and composite give B&W, s-video will too.

[simonbelmont2]

I understand now. Another question is: if RGB cables are used for PAL and NTSC consoles the color will be the same or depends of the color carrier frequency of the consoles?
Thanks albino_vulpix.

[albino_vulpix]

The colour of the output should be identical; not affected by the colour subcarrier.

[dadou]

someone did a mod to fix this problem on Mega Drive II? because i did some circuits but it doesn't work 

[phreak97]

the problem you are talknig about actually hasnt been mentioned in this thread yet, I was just about to write about it.

On pal megadrive consoles (probably ntsc too but flipped the other way) if you force the console into 60hz (50/60 mod) you will get a black and white picture on all outputs except rgb, regardless of the capabilities of your tv.

the console for some reason fails to send the colour subcarrier frequency to the video encoder when the wrong refresh rate is selected.

I wrote up a mod to fix this on the megadrive 1 (I didnt design it myself) which you should be able to find if you use the forums search function. the mod should be the same for the megadrive 2, but it didnt work when I tried it. if yours has a cxa**** video encoder then it will definately work, but mine didnt and I dont know what difference is needed in the mod.

basically what you do is build a basic crystal oscillator circuit (very simple), cut the original trace to the subcarrier input on the encoder, then plug your new one into the encoder instead.

then the subcarrier frequency is present and correct regardless of what the console is doing.

I've got a pal megadrive 1 already modded like this for sale. if anyone wants to make an offer feel free.


also to clear up the gamecubes video modes:
the gamecube  has a software controlled refresh rate but a fixed colour mode. a pal gamecube will be pal colour whatever region game you run on it. if you run an ntsc game on a pal Gamecube it will play in pal 60Hz (the correct refresh rate for the game)

another handy trick for the pal Gamecube is that in most games if you hold B at the Gamecube startup screen and continue holding it until the game starts it will ask you if you would liek to play the game in 60Hz mode.
even with speed fixing for 50Hz mode, 60Hz is still a little faster, usually the way the game was made to be played. quite noticeable in super smash bros melee.

[dadou]

for the MD II i did some circuits to fix the problem but it didn't work
i have the MB3514 and in this thread you can see what i did : http://sega-16.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10522

i know that with the mb3514 you need to build a driver oscillator because the chip don't have a driver to his clock input

so if you have any idea

and for the mega drive 1 he is a guide for doing the fix for the 60 hz : http://www.zipplet.co.uk/index.php/content/electronics_mdpal60