wii over d-terminal on lcd, image quality?

[kyouki]

Hello,

I've got a Sharp Aquos 37" LCD (native res 1080p). I have plugged into it my 360 (HDMI), Wii (D-terminal), and PS2 (D-terminal).

I understand 480i/480p games are not going to look stunning on a 1080p television. However, after being disappointed with the image quality the Wii put out, I figured I'd switch over and see how awful the PS2 looks.

Surprisingly, the PS2 looks better. I am finding the Wii to output a very soft (too soft, almost blurry or interpolated) image. I directly compared the PS2 and Wii versions of Sengoku Basara 2 (both games are 480i 4:3) and the Wii version was noticeably blurrier and less defined, with poorer contrast. I could increase the sharpness, but I shouldn't need to on an LCD using D-terminal cables. Besides, increasing the sharpness just makes the games look more jagged, rather than more clear.

Most Wii games are 480p and while they look better than the 480i Sengoku Basara, they do not look better than PS2 480p games (Tekken 5 for instance looks gorgeous on my TV, even though it is running at 480p with "faked" 16:9). Again, the Wii image is blurry and indistinct with poor contrast.

Has anyone else noticed this, who is in a similar situation as I am?

Could it be a cable problem? Or is there a setting in the Wii menu I might have missed?

[Blaine]

Dumb point maybe, but you didn't mention setting the Wii to 480p mode - just because you're using composite/d-term cables doesn't mean it automatically switches to progressive scan.

You'd have to do it from the screen settings (I think they call it edtv, extended definition).

[sarelc]

I'd have to agree with you kyouki, since I moved up to component cables a lot of the games seem to be colored very blandly. I don't play that much, but Lost Winds is noticeably rich, whereas Boom Blox is... dull? Not really dull, but sort of washed out. And they're both recent games.

@Blaine, it may not be necessary to change the output settings in the menu. I'm only guessing, but the D-Terminal standard does support resolution and scan-type settings through the cable itself. No idea if N has built that functionality into the system though.

[kyouki]

Thanks for the replies guys!  I did indeed turn on progressive scan but it doesn't seem to make much difference.  I hate to compare with the PS2 again, but when I switched on prog scan with Tekken 5 it improved the picture quite a bit.  Text became a lot easier to read for example (clear instead of kind of fuzzy).

I've been fooling around like crazy trying to get the picture just right with the picture controls in the TV menu, but I basically have to decide between pixelly and dark or washed out and blurry. :/  The PS2 looks pretty decent no matter how I set the picture settings, so I just am stumped.

I'd say it's just the scaler in my TV screwing things up, but it was a pretty high end TV, and like I said before, PS2 games look surprisingly good, as do the 480i television stations I get.

btw any relatively inexpensive d-terminal to 1080p scalers out there? 

[edit]
Okay, I just tried a few things.

I switched the inputs I was using just in case there were service menu setting differences between dterm1 and dterm2.  No difference there.

I turned off prog scan (why not?) in the wii menu.  No difference there.

Finally, I compared Sengoku Basara 2 wii (480i 4:3) to Sengoku Musou ps2 (480i 4:3) in what I thought would be a totally unfair match, since Sengoku Musou is a far older game and generally has pretty terrible graphics.

However, Sengoku Musou ended up being clearer (especially the text) and the textures, while low quality, were sharp and clear.  Colors were great and contrast was fine.  Character models, while low poly compared to SB2, looked fantastic and solid.

Sengoku Basara 2 looked muddy and indistinct.  Text was very difficult to read from any distance.  Colors were washed out.  Textures, while probably sharper and more detailed than those in SM, were muddy and washed out.  Character models, while higher poly count, were basically blurry messes.

There is obviously some kind of filter or interpolation going on with the Wii.  It makes it look like I am playing this thing on composite cables!

Just a little ranting.  If devs would make the filter thing an option, this would help a lot.

[l_oliveira]

It's Nintendo design mentality. The Wii (as was with the Game Cube) is optimized for SD displays and composite/S-Video cables.
It's what most people use anyway. And Nintendo has the vision of making their systems perform their best on the standard environment.

I had a little bit of trouble explaining that to a customer other day as he wanted to connect his expensive home theater set to the Wii and get PS3/XBOX360 quality image.

The Wii don't have even a simple "Toshlink" optical audio out port and the PS2 which is eight years old do. That's just to make you think about about how "Ninty" priorities are different than those of the rest of the videogame industry...

[sarelc]

That's just to make you think about about how "Ninty" priorities are different than anything ever

[kyouki]

Well, luckily it seems few of the games I have use this awful filter anyway.  SB2 is by far the worst, I mean it looks like I'm running this game on a PS2 connected to an LCD HDTV with composite cables. :/

DBZ Sparking Meteo looks great for example, as does Shiren 3.

Maybe when we are all playing Wii Sports 2 on our Super Wii consoles in 2012 in glorious 480p anamorphic 16:9 Nintendo will be kind enough to allow us the option of whether or not to totally ruin the image quality with bogus filters .

[albino_vulpix]

It's Nintendo design mentality. The Wii (as was with the Game Cube) is optimized for SD displays and composite/S-Video cables.
It's what most people use anyway. And Nintendo has the vision of making their systems perform their best on the standard environment.

Interesting. I was wondering why playing Sonic through the Wii in RGB looked softer than the Mega Drive counterpart. Thought I was going crazy :p

[Link83]

I had read (forgotten where now) that if you use component cables with the Wii it disables the flicker filter - is that just a myth then?

[kyouki]

I believe it must be a myth, then, because I am using d-terminal and there is definitely some kind of flicker filter on Sengoku Basara 2 and on the Wii menu.  SB2 looks simply awful!  I can also turn on the flicker filter in Smash Bros and make it look awful if I want.

[ken_cinder]

Did you buy some cheapass DT cable off Ebay for your Wii? DT (can) carries numerous signals, analog and digital, and with an improperly made cable, crosstalk is a certain possibility.

I don't think the Wii outputs digital over DT (I don't own one, I haven't even looked at it's pinout) but that doesn't mean theres no crosstalk between analog lines. Try another cable, even component cables if you can and see what you get.

As for disabling flicker filter, I don't know. I know for a fact you CANNOT use the flicker filter on the original Xbox with anything but composite cables hooked up. If this holds true to the Wii as well, you are possibly feeding the display composite video and not component.

[kyouki]

It's the official D-terminal cable, dunno if the quality is good or not... I hope it is, it wasn't cheap.

[Shou]

I've got a 50" Bravia LCD that I use for the Wii and other consoles. Using an official component cable plugged into an Audio Authority 1154A switchbox which goes into the TV via D. Obviously, I wouldn't say it looks 720p quality but it looks decent enough. 480i stuff on Wii and PS2 isn't the greatest since it is upscanning the signal I assume, XRGB looks fine outside of the inherent dot crawl. I think the colors looked better on my old 36" Hi-Vision Sony CRT though. That's just the difference in screen tech.

[john]

I know for a fact you CANNOT use the flicker filter on the original Xbox with anything but composite cables hooked up.

You can use the flicker filter on the xbox fine with RGB scart - I currently have it set at level 1 for xbmc and switched off for games (different xbox').

[l_oliveira]

I know for a fact you CANNOT use the flicker filter on the original Xbox with anything but composite cables hooked up.

You can use the flicker filter on the xbox fine with RGB scart - I currently have it set at level 1 for xbmc and switched off for games (different xbox').

Well I think the OP meant the behavior of a original unmoded XBOX while playing official games...

[john]

Well I think the OP meant the behavior of a original unmoded XBOX while playing official games...

Does an unmodded xbox allow you to turn the flicker filter on/off if you use composite?  I would never have dreamed so, but I've never used the composite cables so can't be sure.

[ken_cinder]

RGB Scart cable has absolutely nothing to do with progressive scan display modes in reference to a flicker filter. 480i using component cables? BAH!

Let me rephrase this, in progressive modes (What was referenced by the OP) you can't use the flicker filter. You can still adjust it in homebrew, but at a hardware level it is 100% disabled.

[l_oliveira]

Well I think the OP meant the behavior of a original unmoded XBOX while playing official games...

Does an unmodded xbox allow you to turn the flicker filter on/off if you use composite?  I would never have dreamed so, but I've never used the composite cables so can't be sure.

If any restrictions apply, they're automatically applied as the XBOX has a binary ID for each kind of cable you can connect to it. The software reconfigures the output accordingly. On original consoles the user has no control over it besides what the games offer on their option menu.

[john]

RGB Scart cable has absolutely nothing to do with progressive scan display modes in reference to a flicker filter.

Indeed not, but you said:

"
I know for a fact you CANNOT use the flicker filter on the original Xbox with anything but composite cables hooked up.
"

If any restrictions apply, they're automatically applied as the XBOX has a binary ID for each kind of cable you can connect to it. The software reconfigures the output accordingly. On original consoles the user has no control over it besides what the games offer on their option menu.

As I thought, thanks for clearing that up.