tv with rgb support?

[mr. newbie]

i was wondering if certain tv models support rgb without modification.

[NFG]

Yes, some do. 

(Hint: Offer or ask more information and you'll receive more informative replies.  =)

[Richter X]

Yes, depending on what part of the world you live in. Japan or Europe? More than likely. USA or Canada? Not so likely.

[mr. newbie]

usa. figured it was a long shot

[Endymion]

I've posted about this several times but it's been a while at this point so here goes some good advice. (Again.)

If you are looking to actually spend the dough and get yourself an RGB capable TV, do it right and get yourself one that will be the last you'll need. (For a while.) Look at Panasonic's plasma HDTV monitors. You can find this in their business section on their website, link for the lazy, don't bookmark it though as Panasonic updates often and it might not work some time later.

Anyway, Panasonic's plasmas are truly awesome. I have two, the TH-50PHD8UK and the TH-P . . . something or other, it's the model that came only one year after the first I listed. The first is 1366x768, the second is 1920x1080. Both support RGB, VGA, DVI, HDMI, component, S-Video, composite and the whole deal. They are literally monitors, the kind that are sold to TV studios for production. The same BNC jacks that you might typically use (with RCA adapters) for component video will work with RGB (15KHz) or VGA (31KHz+), all you have to do is feed it a different signal over the cable and press a button on your remote, it is that easy. Want to use RGB over BNC/RCA? No problem. Want to use it over 15-pin DSUB? How about VGA over BNC/RCA? It's in there! Same deal, it's all there and it works as you expect it, but the interoperability really blew me away. You can mod a single SCART box to the cable of your choosing and then just use new SCART cables for your consoles as you acquire them. Just about the only thing I HAVEN'T tried is component over the VGA input, maybe that would be tempting fate but the only reason I haven't tried is due to lack of need. It does everything else like a dream though that I'd be tempted to say it just might pick it up there too! The only thing that makes me jealous in other sets available today is 120Hz, it may be a while before I run across another set as versatile as these that has that feature. Is 120Hz even possible with plasmas?

These sets both cost three grand brand new (less over the year before the next model--the 1080p set was only 2200 before shipping, a bit over 2500 after) and while I haven't checked the latest models in a while I would expect that they are probably in the same range now, will be updated each year around the end of the year. I'm American, and I live in America, and these things do exactly what I want them to do with your older consoles in addition to just being truly awesome plasma HDTVs, for normal use, current generation games, DVD/HD DVD/BluRay etc. It ought to say enough that I own two of them for all of these uses. If you are serious, and you can splurge it, these are totally worth your time and easily within your reach.

On the flip side, I can't get RID of any of my CRTs. I've got at least four of them gathering dust now that I have these.

[Chizzles]

Do you mean you can't get rid of your CRT's because nobody's buying them?

Do the local government not have some sort of hazerdous waste recycling scheme you could submit them to?

[mr. newbie]

i forgot to say earlier the tv can only be 30-32 inches. theres a weird structure in the living room and my mom wants the whole gap (~32inches) filled.

i'm never going to forget your tv endymion. every few weeks since i originally saw the post i've imagined 50 inches of rgb sonic goodness. i work at best buy but of course none of the tv's say they support rgb. i thought of just bringing a ps2 and trying my luck, but i doubt that will yield any results.

my mitsubishi monitor just resurrected itself and i've got widescreen sony crt coming in the mail.

[RGB32E]

It looks as though the 2007 and 2008 Z series Panasonic plasmas (US consumer line) also support 15.75kHz RGB on the PC input (according to the manual).  Even better, they support composite sync, so no LM1881 needed.  I plan to try this one of these sets (TH-50PZ85U) in the near future.  My only concern about plasmas though is image retention (displaying games in 4:3 for extended periods) and the plasma rainbow effect (blue and "gold" phosphor trails due to uneven rise and decay)... 

Plainbow (plasma rainbow) effect:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/plasma-phosphor-trail-2007040133.htm

Consider yourself lucky if you don't see this... 

[sharpie]

I was going to say a really awesome joke about the "gap" but it was just too easy. 

[RGB32E]

Hey now sharpie....

Well, I just got back from trying out the SNES (via RGBS) on a TH-46PZ85U... and it didn't work.  Turns out the PZ85U series doesn't support composite sync, just separate and SoG (manual was incorrect).  Lame...  But I have encountered some 15.75kHz capable CRT monitors that require a LM1881 circuit to accept the sync (to generate a new composite sync) from the SNES and Dreamcast (namely the NEC XM29).

[Chizzles]

I have a DVD Recorder that only accepts RGB if you feed it RGB with Sync.

If you feed it RGB with composite video as sync, it only records the composite.

[Endymion]

I've had no problems with image retention, borders, etc. on either of my sets, no issues with this "rainbow" either, but I'll keep it in mind to look out for the next time I feel like watching a scrolling test pattern.

At any rate, I could not find a manual for the plasma model you mentioned (didn't search too terribly hard though) but I would not be surprised if it didn't support sync on green if the set you tested was a consumer model. Their consumer sets have way more inputs for various uses and devices, but the business models are much more versatile.

[RGB32E]

...no issues with this "rainbow" either, but I'll keep it in mind to look out for the next time I feel like watching a scrolling test pattern.

It's something I first noticed when playing Bioshock on a PRO-110FD (360 Elite via HDMI) when turning quickly.  Watch ESPN when the fast ticker is displaying on the bottom of the screen.  Or... even better, watch Sin City!  It's an effect that doesn't require test patterns to observe...    Meh...

[Endymion]

Yes, but I've seen Sin City, in fact I have it on DVD, looks great, haven't seen a hint of green, maybe I'm lucky, maybe I have the retinas of a superhuman, doesn't really matter because it doesn't affect me. At any rate was the set you were looking at a consumer model?

[cgm]

Hey now sharpie....

Well, I just got back from trying out the SNES (via RGBS) on a TH-46PZ85U... and it didn't work.  Turns out the PZ85U series doesn't support composite sync, just separate and SoG (manual was incorrect).  Lame...  But I have encountered some 15.75kHz capable CRT monitors that require a LM1881 circuit to accept the sync (to generate a new composite sync) from the SNES and Dreamcast (namely the NEC XM29).

Did the TH-46PZ85U work with 15.75khz RGB after splitting the sync signal? I'm looking into a Panasonic TV in the future and 15.75khz input would be nice. FWIW my Toshiba TIMM requires separate sync on the RGB input. Thankfully my Mac-to-PC adapter that I use to connect my Apple IIgs (outputs TV-RGB) has a built in LM1881 that can be switched on with the DIP switches.

BEGIN RANT
More LCD/Plasma displays should support 15.75khz RGB, they already support just about everything else. Its mostly a firmware issue what the display accepts via its VGA port.
END RANT

[Endymion]

This is why you should get Panasonic's business displays. You will not have to worry about any of these questions on your mind, it will all just work, period. Comparing prices when I bought my models, the consumer versions were actually a few hundred dollars more so it's not like you are saving any money, you are just getting what you want.

[cgm]

My only issue with the Panasonic pro line currently is the lack of a 42" 1080p model. Don't forget that one has to find/purchase a pedestal or wall mount for these monitors. The lack of a tuner is a minor annoyance for some too. Not everybody wants to rent a cable box and I have surprisingly good luck picking up stations with a QAM tuner here.

[RGB32E]

Did the TH-46PZ85U work with 15.75khz RGB after splitting the sync signal? I'm looking into a Panasonic TV in the future and 15.75khz input would be nice. FWIW my Toshiba TIMM requires separate sync on the RGB input. Thankfully my Mac-to-PC adapter that I use to connect my Apple IIgs (outputs TV-RGB) has a built in LM1881 that can be switched on with the DIP switches.

BEGIN RANT
More LCD/Plasma displays should support 15.75khz RGB, they already support just about everything else. Its mostly a firmware issue what the display accepts via its VGA port.
END RANT

I haven't gone back to test the SNES RGBS with my LM1881 sync stripper circuit yet.  I may try again with the sync stripper once the Z800 series shows up in stores (within the next week or so).  However, I don't think I'll be buying one anyways due to one of the inherent issues with all plasmas http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kyllx3VaI8.  (Endymion - don't flame me on this!  )

Yes, I whole heartedly agree with your rant.    Using a RGBS to Component convertor, or an Extron/Faroudja/Anchor Bay processor (RGBS to VGA/HDMI) is not something I'd prefer to do.  However, using an Anchor Bay iScan 20, 30, 50 or 50Pro might be a good solution (all models have two RGBS inputs on RCA connectors), other than the price!

[Endymion]

My only issue with the Panasonic pro line currently is the lack of a 42" 1080p model. Don't forget that one has to find/purchase a pedestal or wall mount for these monitors. The lack of a tuner is a minor annoyance for some too. Not everybody wants to rent a cable box and I have surprisingly good luck picking up stations with a QAM tuner here.

I'll concede the 1080p for a smaller set, but hey, that's more reason to go larger.

Others.

1. The units are so cheap for high-end equipment that a pedestal's cost ($180 last I checked, might be able to find it for $25 or so less if you were really cheap looking hard) is what I'd call negligible, and who wouldn't want a wall-mount?

2. If you have surprisingly good luck with QAM Tuners then what do you need a cable box for? Hell, go to the website that old goat keeps harping about on TV and you can get a government funded coupon for a discount on one, they will only be more plentiful and cheaper as we get closer to February.

These things are the bee's knees, the dog's bollocks, all that and a bag of chips, they do what you want, superbly. They are the product that you longed to have available to you in this country ten years ago, and unlike then, they aren't hard to find or obscure. Why let a non-integrated tuner or stand get in your way for as little as they add to the sticker price?

[NFG]

Apparently LCD and plasma TVs are due for a serious price drop:

http://gizmodo.com/385729/dealzmodo-ahoy-hdtvs-will-get-stupid-cheap-next-month

[albino_vulpix]

Well, I just got back from trying out the SNES (via RGBS) on a TH-46PZ85U... and it didn't work.  Turns out the PZ85U series doesn't support composite sync, just separate and SoG (manual was incorrect).

Isn't SoG just green and the composite sync in the same wire? You shoudn't need an LM1881 if that's the case.

[RGB32E]

Isn't SoG just green and the composite sync in the same wire? You shoudn't need an LM1881 if that's the case.

Yes, sync on green is just that... composite sync on green video.  I haven't found any good implementations (other than a "dirty" resistor & cap route) for doing this.  Shorting green video and composite sync doesn't sound like a wise experiment either .  Besides, I already have a sync stripping circuit already made for the task at hand (composite sync to "separate" H & V syncs).  I also have several different Extron RGB interfaces that will do all of this (to or from SoG, Composite sync, or separate H & V).  So, I have a number of options to pick from!

[mr. newbie]

for the record, crt tv's are hard to find (well decent flatscreen ones). everybody is trying to preach to me about hd (already have one). they don't understand i just need it for street fighter. i'm gonna have to hunt on craigslist. i've long since given up on the rgb thing. just getting a tv that works in this stupid gap will be hard enough.

and endymion's tv is very nicely priced compared to the stuff at my job (bestbuy)

[MaxDestiny]

I have found a tv that is perfect for RGB, It is a standard NTSC definition CRT 32", It is a Samsung  TXL3276.
Anyway the tv's signal IC allows for 2 external RGB inputs, one for OSD, and the other is free, I was able to utilize the 2nd RGB input,
there is even a place for a scart connector that could be soldered to the main pcb, in place of its composite video imputs. Basically a rare find in the USA indeed, if you can find one of these on ebay
I would definitely recommend picking up this set as its like having an arcade monitor for cheap, with no burn in. 

[Tiido Priimägi]

Its not a TV, but my PC LCD monitor - Samsung Syncmaster 730BF supports 15KHz RGB on its VGA input. I hooked my MD2 and DC to it sometime ago. Image is a bit shaky (probably due to weak H sync). Not too useful as you need separate H and V sync signals and MD and DC have these... later model of the same monitor didn't support 15KHz RGB anymore...

[cgm]

Its not a TV, but my PC LCD monitor - Samsung Syncmaster 730BF supports 15KHz RGB on its VGA input. I hooked my MD2 and DC to it sometime ago. Image is a bit shaky (probably due to weak H sync). Not too useful as you need separate H and V sync signals and MD and DC have these... later model of the same monitor didn't support 15KHz RGB anymore...

Heh, I have a Samsung Syncmaster 930MP (TV/Monitor combo, sold in the USA now discontinued) which happens to have a SCART RGB port in on the back. You would think the VGA input would scan down to 15.75khz... nope, have to connect to the SCART port no matter what. Lets not get into the fact you have to change the monitor's region to a European country in the menus to enable the SCART port to begin with.

[mr. newbie]

so i sort of solved my problem.

i borrowed a ps3, and connected that (bnc->phono) to my monitor. that solves my street fighter issue.

the ps3 is like a ps2 only xrgb by my estimation.

[Endymion]

The PS3 does not do real upscaling. If you turn on its "upscaling" feature, it deinterlaces the image, then upscales the deinterlace. It may even turn on Quincunx via the RSX graphics chip, which further harms the image by blurring it. If it works okay by your standards that's great, but just be aware, it is not even close to proper upscaling.

[cgm]

Looks like Panasonic might be releasing a 42" 1080p Pro Series monitor soon.  Likely will be called the TH-42PF11UK.