RGB Monitor, XRGB or Arcade Monitor?

[Black Superman]

I was hoping that someone here could help me with my quest to obtain the ultimate gaming experience. I am new to retro gaming and about a month ago, my eyes were opened to the wonders of gaming in RGB (thanks to this site). Since then I have been trying to learn as much as I can about it and how I can replicate it in my home but unfortunately have been unsuccessful up to this point as to finding a display in order to properly do so.

From my research it sounds like the easiest thing to do would be to find an RGB monitor but it seems as though the ones that would be suitable for video game modification are rare and too small in size to ever enjoy (IMHO at least 20� but preferably 25� or over).

Then I thought I could use the setup I have for my Dreamcast (21� LCD VGA monitor) but again, I would need one of the rare XRGB upsan converters that don�t seem to be in steady supply anywhere.

Then I got to thinking that maybe I could get an arcade monitor and modify it to run RGB from my consoles. But this sounded like the most expensive and most difficult of the options albeit the one with the most availability.

So I guess what I am hoping someone here could help me with is whether or not I should continue my search for a decent sized RGB monitor, try to get in line to get a back-ordered XRGB-3 (or maybe find an earlier model on ebay or somewhere) or start my journey towards arcade cabinet modification and what would the quality implications be between the options if any.

Thanks

[viletim]

Game consoles are made to drive a standard '75 ohm terminated' RGB monitor. If you try to hook one up to an arcade monitor (which have unterminated inputs) you might have problems. Aparently new monitors are better in this aspect (I hear that some have 75 ohm inputs just for this sort of thing) but generaly speaking, RGB from a game console is not guranteed to be suitable for an arcade monitor (without some knid of amplifier).

I can see the appeal of an arcade monitor though - It's much cheaper than an a RGB pro monitor. I wouldn't even consider the LCD idea unless you're short on space.

[Segasonicfan]

I've found that Wells Gardner and other hi end arcade monitors look the best.  They have just a phenomenal picture.  That said, I've been using Sony RGB monitors for a while (the PVM series) and they are very decent.  They also come in larger sizes (I have a 25" and a 29").  More suitable for the home too, since they are fully enclosed.  I only recommend an arcade monitor if you ONLY want the most amazing picture possible and price is no object.

As far as console compatibility, I've never had any problem at all.  My PS2 and Genesis work flawlessly on my arcade monitors.  As far as 75ohm termination goes, all you have to do is tie 75ohms from the RGB lines to ground...pretty simple but I found that this wasn't even needed.

Also, ALWAYS go with a CRT.  LCDs are nowhere near the same quality as a fine RGB CRT.

-Segasonicfan  

[ido8bit]

A monitor or TV that will display 15kHz RGB without upscaling or converting the signal will give you the best possible picture.

If you are in Europe, the UK, Australia or elsewhere where TVs have SCART inputs the choice is easy.  There are many nice CRT TVs up to 37" that will accept RGB over their SCART inputs.  Now that many people are "upgrading" to Plasma and LCD some very nice sets are being sold cheaply.

If you are in the USA you probably won't be able to find a SCART TV.  A Sony PVM monitor probably won't be too hard to find.  I've got a 21" and 27" and I'm happy with them.  I don't think they made them bigger.

There are also Mitsubishi Megaviews and NEC monitors that are 37", but I've never used one so I don't know how good they are.  If you end up looking at an NEC check the specs carefully though as some of the later models only accept VGA or above over their RGB inputs.  

Anytime you convert or scale signal you will loose some quality or introduce artifacts into the picture.

I have an XRGB2.  Running into a good CRT monitor (I have a 22" Mitsubishi Diamondtron) the picture is great (better than the other cheaper converters I tried before), but it still does introduce artifacts into the picture.  Also keep in mind that the finer pitch of a VGA monitor will make things more blocky.  An LCD monitor will scale the image again (unless you have a 640x480 LCD) degrading the image further (though the never XRGB2+ or XRGB3 may be better for LCD).

I wouldn't get a Plasma or LCD screen for console games, you'd be paying more for poorer picture quality.

[Kiriko]

I have had several RGB monitors in my life and I feel that you should go with them, instead of the arcade monitor or the XRGB.  Because first off, a true RGB monitor should be able to handle the 15 khz of most gaming console.  If you can get your hands on a Mitsubishi Megaview or a NEC Multisync, they can do VGA as well as RGB, and svideo and composite for those who care.  Sony makes a 40 inch CRT, which is the largest RGB monitor that I know of.  I have a 37 inch NEC myself and it can do VGA, RGB, svideo, and composite.  I found mine on Craig's list, but you can easily find RGB monitors, especially Sony PVM 2530 on ebay.  I personally don't recommend them if you want an all purpose monitor.  Why?  Because they won't do VGA and since they are fairly old, lots of them have geometry issues that can only be adjusted by opening up the monitor itself.  Plus, the Sony PVM usually only have 1 connector for RGB, where as the Mitsubishi and NEC have 2 connectors.  Hopefully that helps.

[Black Superman]

Wow. Everytime I visit this forum I learn something new. I was amazed at the picture provided by my Dreamcast on my LCD monitor. I can't wait to see what it will look like on a CRT. I am definitely going to hook it up to one of the monitors at work this week.

Thanks for all of the advice. I am going to continue my search for an RGB monitor. Hopefully I can find one that will have me gaming in true RGB before long.

I will probably still get an arcade monitor at some point though. I have this project in my head to recreate the 6 player X-Men arcade game that I spent all of my money on one summer.

I did have a couple more questions though now that I have explored the subject more. What input types do most of your RGB monitors have? I have read that a lot of RGB monitors have BNC inputs. I had previously only heard that RGB was output to displays through DB15 pin, D-Terminal and SCART connections. If a BNC connection is used, does it matter if it is 4BNC or 5BNC?

Also, since the concensus is that CRT monitors provide much better picture and color quality than LCD's, where do projectors fit in? I was also toying with the idea of a DLP or front projector for gaming.

Thanks again.

[Kiriko]

All of my monitors have both BNC and a 15 pin connector.  The BNC can be used for RGB or VGA.  And all of them have had 5 BNC.  I have never owned one with only 4 BNC before.

If you're interested in a DLP projector that can display 15 khz RGB (as well as VGA of course), drop me a PM.  I have one I could sell.

[ido8bit]

RGB monitors with BNC connectors can have 3, 4 or 5 BNC connectors.  

A monitor with only 3 connectors is sync on green.

A monitor with only 4 connectors is composite sync.

A monitor with 5 BNC connectors is separate horizontal and vertical sync, but  many of these monitors will also accept composite sync (connected to the H sync input) and sync on green.  

Some consoles do not output the sync signal, you will probably need to build a sync separator circuit to extract the sync signal from the composite video output.