Flat tube vs. Convex tube CRT displays

[zedrein]

After several months of thorough investigation I have concluded that I will never use anything other than a 15kHz CRT display (preferably with RGB input capabilities) to view my retro games with. I do, however, ponder the virtues of having a flat-tube CRT versus a more traditional "curved" one. I bring attention to this subject because most of the professional quality CRT displays with 15kHz RGB connections on the market appear to be convex or curved style of varying degrees, and viewing material with the flat display has always yielded better results in my experiences. Are flat-tubes generally more appealing to y'all? If so; is having a bubbled/convex/curved screen just a concession that has to be made for overall retro-gaming bliss?

[panzeroceania]

flat glass CRTs are more accurate and better quality.... but they are all 31khz and above (that I know of)

so you pretty much only have once choice if your heart is set on using the original 15khz signal with no conversion. I'd say it's worth it. I try to run all my hardware with zero conversion, which means, digital to digital, analog to analog, RGB to RGB, 15khz to 15khz, et cetera. even if it does mean you don't get the best display out there.

The best CRTs out there are typically the Viewsonic Graphic Monitors and Mitsubishi Diamond series, etc, but they are 31khz and above, and typically higher resolutions, they'd be great for Dreamcast games via VGA, but anything that uses a 15khz signal not really unless you want to use a converter like the XRGB-3

[zedrein]

But Mr. Oceania, I own a flat CRT that can display 15kHz resolutions! Are you telling me that the best CRT displays only come in curved designs like I suspect?

[NFG]

There are tons of flat CRTs but they all tend to be later models, and as such you can expect them to be cheaper made, mass-produced, modern connectors (ie: svideo) etc.  What you might consider a nice compromise is a Trinitron aperture grille monitor: these have a horizontal curve, but are perfectly flat vertically, and Sony typically made a great TV.  Their totally-flat units though tended to have really bad convergence issues, especially on earlier models.

One of the reasons that flat panels are not often seen in your travels is their late arrival on the TV scene: By the time they were becoming common in the late 90s, TVs were already starting to feel the threat from LCDs.  Because a flat tube requires a lot of effort to produce good images on (a curved tube is a constant radias away from the guns, a flat tube is not) spending money on heavier, expensive technology to fight a losing battle wasn't really wise for the manufacturers...

The quality of the tube/chassis matters a LOT more than the curvature of the screen.  The best curved unit will blow away an average flat tube, right?  Pay more attention to that.

[zedrein]

That was a hella good answer as usual, Lawrence. The only reason I started to really question screen curvature is because while I was playing Super Mario Bros. on my legacy systems on an old CRT, I noticed that every time Mario would be on the leftmost or rightmost part of the screen he was narrower, while in the center of the screen he had more girth. I don't like this oblong/panoramic effect, so I wanted to see if there existed an alternative for the type of RGB displays we all seek for classic gaming.

[NFG]

The stretching you describe is not a problem with curved TVs so much as a TV that's out of whack somehow.  Some widescreens will stretch the edges but compress the centre, when displaying a 4:3 image, but that's kind of the opposite of what you describe.

The only way a curved tube should do what you are seeing is if it's in need of a repair, or if you're so close to it the edges of the screen are heading straight away from your eyes.  And if you're doing THAT, no one here can help you. 

[panzeroceania]

But Mr. Oceania, I own a flat CRT that can display 15kHz resolutions! Are you telling me that the best CRT displays only come in curved designs like I suspect?

all I meant was, in an ideal world, you could have the best of both, but most flat glass displays were made when 30/31khz and above was more popular (computer monitors) not that it was NEVER done or not possible, but just not common or likely, especially to get one that did both AND was a good RGB television.

[RGB32E]

But Mr. Oceania, I own a flat CRT that can display 15kHz resolutions! Are you telling me that the best CRT displays only come in curved designs like I suspect?

all I meant was, in an ideal world, you could have the best of both, but most flat glass displays were made when 30/31khz and above was more popular (computer monitors) not that it was NEVER done or not possible, but just not common or likely, especially to get one that did both AND was a good RGB television.

Do yourself a favor an acquire a PVM-2950Q in good condition and call it a day/life!  Otherwise, buy an XRGB-3... I did

[zedrein]

An XRGB-3 eh? It seems like most people generally prefer the model 2 unit. Have your experiences been delightful with this particular one?

[RGB32E]

An XRGB-3 eh? It seems like most people generally prefer the model 2 unit. Have your experiences been delightful with this particular one?

Overall, my experience has been great with the XRGB-3.   Having used an XRGB-3 in B0 mode on my HDTV (@1080p), I would NOT have been satisfied with a XRGB-2+.   The XRGB-3 has a mode (FPGA mode B1) where it behaves just like a XRGB-2+, and the picture just isn't very clean, but you can turn on scanline emulation - if that's what you fancy.  For me, I primarily use B0 mode - pixel resize mode.  So, I have my XRGB-3 configured to output 1920x1080, and the pixels from the signal source are simply resized!  Hence, I have juicy aliased and well saturated pixels without edge enhancement!  Other than CRT's superb motion handling (due to their impluse driven design) and lack of any signal processing (monitors/non-HD CRT), I'd say a XRGB-3 is the way to go if you have the money!   My 55" XBR8 gives a 4:3 image equivalent to a 46" CRT (which doesn't even exist)!!!

However, the non-plus version of the XRGB-2 supposedly does not perform any frame rate conversion.  However, that limits the amount of display's it will work with...

Like I said, find a PVM-2950Q for retro RGB gaming, unless you have a large FP HDTV that plays well with an XRGB-3...
http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E9%9B%BB%E6%B3%A2%E6%96%B0%E8%81%9E%E7%A4%BE-XRGB-3-DVI%E5%AF%BE%E5%BF%9C%E3%82%A2%E3%83%83%E3%83%97%E3%82%B9%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%83%90%E3%83%BC%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC-DP3913418/dp/B000WLXOU0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260893220&sr=8-1

[Sabishii Hito]

Dude, thank you SO much for that link.  I ordered an XRGB-3 from Amazon Japan and had it shipped to a bud over there free, and it cost about $40 for EMS shipping to the USA.  He mailed it on the 26th and I got it yesterday!!!

[RGB32E]

Dude, thank you SO much for that link.  I ordered an XRGB-3 from Amazon Japan and had it shipped to a bud over there free, and it cost about $40 for EMS shipping to the USA.  He mailed it on the 26th and I got it yesterday!!!

No problem!    That's why I posted the link!  I sent you a PM...