need an opinion

[Daybona]

I recently sent this email to lik-sang:

I am trying to use the cables you sent me to play my saturn and dc in VGA via
my xrgb2 upscan converter. However they do not work, the colors are wrong and
and sync is not steady.

I believe this is due to the fact that you sold me scart cables when I had wanted RGB, in the case of the saturn cable, it is forgivable as you DID mention scart in the description although I always considered RGB to be NTSC and SCART to be PAL.

Labeling a cable to be rgb scart is misleading in my opinion. However in the case of the Dreamcast cable, nowhere in its description do you mention that it is SCART, leading one only to believe that it is NTSC RGB.

Please consider making your product descriptions more detailed. I would like you return these non-fuctioning cables and have you replace them with JAPANESE 21 PIN NTSC RGB CABLES for the respective systems that I have requested them for. You have always provided excellent service in the past, I expect no different this time.

this is response I got:

Dear John Bowdle,

I am sorry to hear that you are not satisfied with your purchased products,
however let me explain something that you seem to have misunderstood.

SCART = Is a connector type, this is not a signal, SCART can carry Normal Video
signal, it can carry audio, it can carry S-Video signals, it can carry RGB
signals.

RGB = Commonly used in EURO SCARTS for connecting video appliance with best
possible image quality, also used when playing video games to convert a NTSC
signal to a so called hybrid signal (PAL 60hz) to get color on a TV that does
not support pure NTSC.

Short version used to describe RGB SCART cable is usually just RGB cable.

You can check further details here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scart

In regards of the two cables that you have purchased, both products are not
Japanese RGB SCART cables, and the product description clearly doesn't say
that either. Japanese SCARTS has a completely different pinout and hence that's
why the 2 cables does not work in your XRGB2, and if you are unlucky you might
have even damaged your XRGB2 by connecting this to the Japanese SCART
connectors.

I hope this clear things out, and please do not understand this in the wrong
way, its not my intension to point any fingers, just to make you aware of this
difference so you may not make the mistake in the future.

Best regards,

Jim Lou - Technical Support Executive

Am I wrong on this? Not only do I feel insulted by his response but no where does he make mention of correcting the problem! Lik-Sangs inneptitude ruined my X-RGB2 and they make no action to correct this problem. Should I go to the BBB with this or what?

[acem77]

i ordered every rgb scart cable from them for the same reason.
i did know they were just rgb euro scart cables. i just rewired each cable.
i knew i had to do that way before i placed the order.

it would be nice to put a side note saying that the cables are not japanese rgb cables. just to avoid such a case and i can see why people could make the mistake.

in the end they never lied to you.
you just assumed that the cables would work as is.
as far as i know japanese rgb is never called scart.
scart is just a universal connection that can be used composite,svideo or rgb.

normally a device can take more abuse. i am shocked it broke your xrgb2.
that is too bad if it is true.

in the end the rgb mods are not alway cut and dry.


with some of the scart cables that the sell they used composite video as sync.
that can reproduce some ugly pixel crawl fx in the picture.
i end up using the svideo sync from the systems they did that with like snes and a few other systems.
also with saturn you will have to break off  the pin on the saturn side that connects to composite
video. if dont the pixel crawl noise will show up in games that run at 60fps or high resolution games like vf2.
some systems need amps like n64 if you even have the right model with rgb.

i dont even use the scart connectors anymore for each system.
i bought 13 cheap xbox 360 component cable from ebay.
i cut off the xbox end and soldered the needed end for each rgb system on that end.
the xbox 360 cables have 7 separate conductors left, right, composite, y, b-y, r-y, gnd.
i used them as left, right, sync, red, green, blue, gnd.
now i use a pelican v1 component selector box.
the out put goes to the japanese rgb connector rca jacks on the xrgb2.

[Daybona]

I guess the moral of the story is buyer beware.  In my mind there are two types of rgb   connectors: scart and jap.  

They look the same but the wiring is different.  When I see a listing for an rgb cable, I always assume its ntsc and I guess I am wrong for doing that it just sucks that they weren't more explicit in their product description.

[NFG]

We should stop using terms like NTSC and PAL with SCART, it's potentially confusing.  There's no such thing as NTSC or PAL RGB, so if a SCART cable is RGB, you cannot use these terms.

The Japanese cable is not called SCART in Japan, it's just an RGB 21-pin connector.  Since most English-speaking users of SCART-shaped RGB cables are in Europe, you should always assume it's SCART, not J-RGB.

Lik-Sang would be wise to make note of this, but it's possible they believe their customers are aware of the distinction.

[Daybona]

I think its pretty naive to assume your users know what kind of rgb cable you are selling, especially when the wrong cable could destroy your X-RGB2.

I'm going to contact lik-sang and ask that they replace my X-RGB2 or I'm taking this to the BBB.

[NFG]

Sorry Daybona, you're not going to like my opinion.

Your posts have made it abundantly clear that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to RGB cables, you've got all the terminology wrong, and blaming Lik-Sang for your own ignorance isn't really fair.

That said, you're totally right when you say Lik-Sang should label their cables more clearly.

That said (again), you knew there were differences between cables, you knew they didn't specify which one you were buying, and you plugged it in without checking the pinout first - a thirty second job.  Yeah, it sucks, but do you really think the blame is entirely theirs?  (Maybe take a month to cool off before answering...)

[Daybona]

I guess my posts are indicating otherwise, but I really DO know the difference between between all off the different types of RGB cables out there.  But at this point it really doesn't matter.

My X-RGB2 is fucked and its my fault for assuming too much.  Never again when I see a  listing for an 21 pin rgb connector will I assume its wired for jap rgb.

I just ordered a X-Select 4 and you can be damn sure that I will be very clear what type of cables I use in conjuction with this device.

Thanks again for listening to my gripes and taking the time to respectfully bring me up to speed!

[antron]

There's no such thing as NTSC or PAL RGB

i don't have any consoles hooked up to my arcade monitor yet; but when i do what should i expect to happen when i switch from a NTSC game to a PAL game?

will i need to adjust the Horizontal and/or Vertical size/freq settings (its all manual).

[viletim!]

both products are not Japanese RGB SCART cables

and this game won't work on my Nintendo Playstation!


antron,
Generaly speaking, PAL consoles output 50hz video while NTSC consoles will give you 60hz video. You'll likely have to adjust your monitor each time you switch to the other one.