Very Very Very irritating Xbox RGB probs

[Martin]

Ok the TV I am using displays the RGB outputs in 60Hz from my other consoles fine so I assume that it should do the same on my Xbox. But whenever I try to play a game in 60Hz mode on my Xbox the contrast is uneven on the screen. The contrast gets higher on more detailed parts of the image and loer on areas of solid colour (for example shading will look very dark but a solid colour will look grey-ish).
I've tried it with and without caps and it makes no difference apart from the blue being slightly too vibrant when the caps are in the cable.
Any ideas what's going on here?
Thanks  :lol:  

[VooD]

On my Xbox via rgb cable you can notice a couple of difference between the two avaible 60 hz modes, pal 60 and ntsc. Lucky I can choose which mode (pal60, ntsc, or pal) want to use in each game with UnleashX

Pal: perfect image and geometry (but 50/25 fps ....)
Pal60: perfect image...but the image seems a bit horizontally streched, which causes games like panzer dragoon orta to not completly shows their energy marker.
NTSC: the image is brighter (so I have to decrease brightness on my tv), colors, and geometry are perfect

So I always use NTSC,

My TV is a Sony WEGA 29�� don�t remember which model exactly

If only I could turn off that fucking xbox flicker filtering....

[retrofan]

Oh yes, not to mention the xbox puts out a reddish tint over dark images and shitty "blurry" rgb. I have to say xbox puts out the worst video quality of all consoles old or new. Images are blurry (sharper in S-VIDEO) and rgb 15khz just doesnt feel like rgb with nice sharp image and vivid colors.

I believe all this is because the nvidia vga card inside which is crappy for quality.

I've looked at v1.1 xbox's and v1.3.

[Aidan]

I believe all this is because the nvidia vga card inside which is crappy for quality.

Two things. If the signal is better in S-Video than RGB, then it's probably the buffering between the DAC and the output pins. The S-Video signal is usually encoded from the RGB.

Secondly, nVidia chips are quite capable of very good image quality, despite rumours to the contrary. The output from the chips themselves is good, but some integrators of said chips put some hefty filtering between the chip and the output terminals, which can then seriously degrades the quality of the output. This ties in with the first point.

[Guest_Martin]

That so called "crappy" "blurry" RGB output is nothing to do with the actual RGB output. The majority of Xbox games use screen smoothing. the Xbox S-Video is WORSE than the RGB; because on Xbox S-Video you get some slight horizontal noise on light shades of blue and grey
Anyway the point is the RGB is fine on every other TV in the house apart from this one =/ And this TV accepts 60Hz RGB ouput from my other consoles so I don't see why it shouldn't accept it from my Xbox so any helps?

[Guest]

Oh yes, not to mention the xbox puts out a reddish tint over dark images and shitty "blurry" rgb. I have to say xbox puts out the worst video quality of all consoles old or new. Images are blurry (sharper in S-VIDEO) and rgb 15khz just doesnt feel like rgb with nice sharp image and vivid colors.

I believe all this is because the nvidia vga card inside which is crappy for quality.

I've looked at v1.1 xbox's and v1.3.

erm how exactly?
Mines has no red tint on any of my TVs

[Endymion]

I think there is, short of some mass European hysteria, some issue peculiar to PAL units because I have zero issues with RGB or S-video on my NTSC units, you guys are loco.

[VooD]

The blurrines you are referring for is caused by the flicker filtering which xbox�s  video encoder applies to the image output.

It has 5 different levels in order to avoid interlacing flickering  , but sadly it�s on by default (it seems somebody at microsoft decided flickering was bad....) and there is no way to turn it on at the moment. Also the video encoder has another filter called soften which is a low-pass filter which blurs even more the video output. Some games like Wreckless uses flicker filtering at level 5, and soften at the same time, which makes the video output ultrablurry. In fact, Xbox output is so blurry because of those filters which even though it renders at higher resolution than ps2, ps2 games use to look a lot sharper.

If you want check yourself how those filters affects Xbox video output you can use UnleashX, XBMC, and some xport emulators which let you choose which filtering level you want to use (but only in those apps...games sadly will return to their default filtering values)

I think it would be possible to make patchs to dissable filtering in games, but nobody seemed interested in xbox-scene  

[viletim!]

I bought an xbox couple of weeks ago and I'm pretty dissapointed with the blurry video output too. I bought it mainly for XBMC but also because many people were going on about how great all the console emulators were. Ofcorse they neglect to mention that they don't run at native console resolutions and the games all end up looking like scaled, blurry, crap :/

[VooD]

yEP, sadly a lot of people still not able to see the difference between running an emulator at native resolution 15khz (non interlace, most of them) and the scaling xbox does.

The sad part is, Xbox video encoder allows non interlaced low res modes by directly poking the hardware, but all coders are too lazy to research that possibility, and only recently they have started to allow people to disable flicker filtering.

(about xbmc, you can disable all filters to get a very sharp image )

[Guest_Martin]

I don't mind the flicker filtering at the lower levels. Street Fighter III 3rd Strike looks great when you turn the filtering off on the options menu.
Any clues as to how to fix my problem? :huh:  

[Guest]

Another way to get around the flicker filtering would be to use the games in prog scan mode  

[dj898]

shouldn't these issues pretty much gone when using YUV connection? o_O

[Guest]

Only if you have a HDTV tv.
Here, in Europe, almost nobody has one...and which is worse, most countryes doesnt have any intention to broadcast in HDTV formats. They are promoting DVB-T tv with standart resolution instead of going to HDTV.

Also here, CRT hdtv�s are not sold. Just, Plasma, LCD�s and projectors are avaible, and most of them use weird resolutions which doesn�t fit HDTV standarts at all..........blurry interpolation.

[-Martin-]

Why my oh my that's some great information but what I would really like you to do is help me with my problem    

[Arakon]

in my comparison the xbox has the best rgb image out of ps2 and gc. also, the 1.6 models have a much clearer, vivid image quality over rgb.

[dj898]

Only if you have a HDTV tv.
Here, in Europe, almost nobody has one...and which is worse, most countryes doesnt have any intention to broadcast in HDTV formats. They are promoting DVB-T tv with standart resolution instead of going to HDTV.

Also here, CRT hdtv�s are not sold. Just, Plasma, LCD�s and projectors are avaible, and most of them use weird resolutions which doesn�t fit HDTV standarts at all..........blurry interpolation.

in Australia we've FTA DTB sicne 2000 and it's fairly well established with the hugh price reduction on HDTV inc. PDP/LCD/etc. Yes we use PAL standard as well...

for Xbox though I have US Xbox as well as PAL Xbox soft mod for NTSC-U video output with HDTV... Yep out of box PAL Xbox does not feature HDTV support...

Let's hope Xbox360 will feature full HDTV support for PAL market...

p.s. toh I wish Australia goes to NTSC instead of PAL... no point being PAL when the region is NTSC dominant as we are not even close to Europe in anyway nor we care about UK crap...

[-Martin-]

That's brilliant! Can someone please READ the first post of this topic and try to help rather than bitch and moan about omg anti flicker filter suxx0r!11