Generic 3,5" 1.44 MB floppy on X68000 XVI Compact

[caius]

Hi all,
I'm trying to use a standard  3.5  1.44Mb floppy drive  as internal FDD on my X68000 XVI Compact.I have the pinout of the internal X68000 Compact FDD (it uses 34 pins flat cable):

http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley/3115/info/data/c_fdd.html

This is the pinout of the standard floppy 34 pins interface:

http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml

What are the needed connections between these two interface?
And then how can I set two standard 3.5" 1.44 MB floppy as '0' and '1' unit (on X6800o floppy there is a jumper for this)?
In you opinion for my purpose are 3Mode 3.5" floppy needed ?

P.S.
I found also  this connection diagram:

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:pc_floppy_drive

but it's for external X68000 floppy connector.

[eidis]

Hi !

Did you try to use Canon MD3641 as a donor drive ?

Eidis

[caius]

Hi !

Did you try to use Canon MD3641 as a donor drive ?

Eidis

Hi!Yes ,I tried the Canon MD3641 but, sadly, it's not compatible or better only some parts are in common with FDD of X68000 Compact.Parts in common are:
Disk assembly (except a different flat cable which goes to the PCB) so they shares same magnetic heads and mechanism including same stepper motor.Also the upper case is the same.
Obviouly different are the PCBs and eject system (soft in X68000 and hard in MD3641).
So Canon MD3641 is good to take some parts but it's not full compatible.

[eidis]

 Is it possible to obtain the necessary parts from the donor drive ?

Eidis

[caius]

Is it possible to obtain the necessary parts from the donor drive ?

Eidis

Yes, is it possibile to take the parts from the Canon3641 donor floppy drive, at lest parts which are in common (stepper motor, disk assembly, case, magnetic heads, some screws).

[eidis]

 So would it be possible to transplant them ? Don't be afraid to take them apart. Just do it slowly, extremely careful and don't rush things.

[caius]

So would it be possible to transplant them ? Don't be afraid to take them apart. Just do it slowly, extremely careful and don't rush things.

Yes, I tried to transplant the upper head from Canon MD3641 into the X68000 Compact floppy drive which upper head I broke of.But it doens't  read any disk because probably  I damaged his PCB changing capacitors.Instead I swap stepper motor and It works.It's not possible to transplant the whole disk assembly of the Canon Md3641 because it has a different flat cable which goes to the PCB and it's a pity because the two disk assemblies are the same (except for this flat cable which is not removible since it's connected near the spindle and It's impossbile to access to this area (at least for me)
So I tried some swap between parts of aa working floppy disk and this not working one and these are the results:

-disk assemply with upper head of Canon MD3641  + working known PCB : no reading but soft eject works
-working known disk assembly +  PCB with replaced capacitors  : reads but soft eject doesn't work

Conclusion: -no reading depends from disk assemblies (maybe magnetic heads broken or not aligned)
                      -no soft eject depends from  PCB (maybe capacitors are not  the right ones or I broken some tracks desoldering capacitors)

Luckily I have other two working FDDs.But I seriouly thinking to try your CF mod leaving in peace the Compact FDDs which are very very delicate...
But before try this CF mod I would try to use a generic 3.5" FDD 1.44MB and as I said in the first post of this thread I have these informations:

pinot of hte internal Compact FDD connector:
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley/3115/info/data/c_fdd.html

pinout of the standard floppy 34 pins interface:

http://pinouts.ru/Storage/InternalDisk_pinout.shtml

This is the connection diagram:

http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:pc_floppy_drive

but it's for external X68000 floppy connector.

I found also this japanese page in which they mention a  'Expfd.x' driver in order to use generic floppy:

http://ht-deko.minim.ne.jp/x68ktune.html


I could use the 34 pins connector (Compact FDD use flat cable not ribbon so these kind of connectors are impossible to find) of the broken Compact floppy PCB and build an adapter to a standard 34 pins floppy interface, obviouly I should ignore things like led blinking or soft eject.
Eidis, since you are a guru and a master in matter of modifications, do you think is it possibile?Or do you think I'm going crazy?

P.S.
Eidis, please, see also this guy (he is also posting on this forum..) what kind of internal CF mod he done for his X68000  Compact:
http://translate.google.it/translate?u=http://painkilla.egloos.com/category/X68000&sl=ko&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

He used a SCSI to IDE board that it's not mentioned in your great guide, it's a SCION9-CA model and it works.

[eidis]

 Hi !

Please note that after transplanting the upper head you will need to calibrate it before the drive will be able to read any floppy disks. It is not that difficult, only takes a steady hand and a lot of patience. I once did it with my Amiga 600 and it was a success. There should be two screws holding the upper head to the assembly. Loosen both of them, but leave one slightly tensed, just enough to be able to move the upper head to the left and right, using gentle force. I prefer to keep the right screw slightly tensed. The trick here is to find exact horizontal and vertical alignment of the upper head. You will know that you have something going on when the drive starts booting from disc. If I recall correctly, both drives need to be connected in order for X68000 to boot from them. Some great games for floppy calibration are Motos and Scorpius. Start with Motos, because it is more forgiving. Then move on to Scorpius as it will test how good the alignment is at the beginning and end of the disk. I have noticed that a good start is to position the magnetic stripe of upper head exactly over the one of lower head. Then try moving the upper head by tiny bits to the left, then try reading a disk. If that does not work, a little more to the left and so on and then to the right. If that does not work, try moving the head slightly up or down and repeat the procedure with left and right. Do it while the floppy disk is in the floppy drive. It will make things a lot easier but be gentle Eject and reinsert floppy after every adjustment. This task is rather tedious but X68000 was never meant for the weak of heart

P.S. Could you take photos of those flat cables for comparison ? I am curious. Use multimeter to measure the voltages while the drive is reading or spinning disk. It could be that most of the data lines are identical.

P.P.S. You state that generic floppy drives only work with a driver. IMHO it could spell a disaster in floppy based game compatibility and I would rather like to hear you say that you managed to refurbish the original drive.

Best of luck and keep us posted,
Eidis

[caius]

Eidis, these are the pictures you ask me:

[eidis]

I'm not quite sure what to make out of it. Can I see the broken ribbon cable in these pictures ?

Eidis

[caius]

This is the flexible flat cable of the upper head I broke , then I take the upper head of the Canon MD3641 which is identical (you can see it missing in the picture of  my previous post)

[eidis]

 This floppy drive is too complicated. I can't make anything out of those pictures. By the way, would it be possible to replace the top and the bottom magnetic heads, both together ? If the donor drive ribbon cable fits the controller, then we might still have a chance to revive the drive.

Eidis

[caius]

This floppy drive is too complicated. I can't make anything out of those pictures. By the way, would it be possible to replace the top and the bottom magnetic heads, both together ? If the donor drive ribbon cable fits the controller, then we might still have a chance to revive the drive.

Eidis

Yes, upper and lower head of the Canon MD3641 are the same (same flat cable as well) of Compact FDD.But I was not able to take both together because the lower one is  in the rail (and the rail is blocked and sealed) so I take only the upper head  and maybe this is why it didn't work, they are not aligned well.It was better if  I could take the whole heads assembly IMHO.

[eidis]

 Please pay close attention to assembly near the rail. If it can be put together, it can be taken apart. Just be very very careful and don't rush things. There could be some assembly which holds the rail into place or lets you remove the lower head once you have disassembled 80% of the floppy drive.

Eidis