Can't make out photos on site...SNES to RGB mod

[DaddyLongLegs]

Hey everyone! I am quite in the hole (monetarily) trying to get SNES to look good on my 1080p Panasonic Plasma TV. I am from the US and as you all know we got the bone when it came to RGB. Anyway, I spent a fortune buying many SCART (RGB) cables for the SNES, only to have most of them show up to be the ones I don't want (without the 220uF Capacitors on R G and B). Anyway, one of them finally came and it had the 200uF capacitors and I was psyched. I hooked it up to this device:

http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:csy-2100

Then I output R, G, B, and composite sync to my DVDO Edge upscaler. The picture was very nice but not perfect. I can't put my finger on it but the closer I got to perfection image wise, the more noise I saw on the screen (wavy lines most noticeably in white areas, for example). This led me to believe I was doing something wrong, but since I followed the guides here, I'm not sure what that is.

Anyway, my main reason for posting is if you look at the link above, it says I only need to hook up R, G, B, S, and ground to that device. The picture is unfortunately way too blurry to make out. I can clearly see red green and blue and  where they should be soldered, but I can't see where the other wires are going, nor do I know what ground even means coming from an SNES cable. I feel this might be where my issue lies.

If anyone could give me some pointers, I'd really appreciate it. I got to desperate I bought an SNES mini and RBG modded it but my goodness it looks like crap. I did not add 75ohm resistors because the guide said the US version of the console didn't need them...could that be where my issue is?

Thanks to anyone who can help me out.

[DaddyLongLegs]

Oh also I went on eBay to buy some 75ohm resistors and they all have different wattage. The guide here does not say which wattage to use. 1/4th? 1?

[Midori]

The wattage on the resistors doesn't matter in this cable, 1/4 is more than enough and a higher value will not affect the result.

[DaddyLongLegs]

Thanks!

To make a long story short, what I really need is someone to explain what is going on in this pic:

http://www.gamesx.com/wiki/lib/exe/detail.php?id=av%3Acsy-2100&media=av:snes_shortrgb_scart_00.jpg

I have the proper cable, and I have the exact transcoder it is being hooked up to. Problem is the picture is way too blurry to make out what's going where. If someone could help I would greatly appreciate it.

[Midori]

The Snes output is actually a bit blurry. But it should not make the image unviewable. Your cable looks correct. You should not need the 75 ohm resistors.

Have you have any other consoles to try your setup with instead? Do they give a sharp and good image?

[DaddyLongLegs]

The Snes output is actually a bit blurry. But it should not make the image unviewable. Your cable looks correct. You should not need the 75 ohm resistors.

Have you have any other consoles to try your setup with instead? Do they give a sharp and good image?

Thanks but I am sorry but I am confused by "your cable looks correct" as I did not post a cable? I posted a link to an image of a cable from this site that I need help deciphering since it's a bad photo.

The original SNES gave me a very nice picture; the SNES 2/jr./mini that I RGB modded looked horrible. It was viewable, but the colors were atrocious and too bright. I know I soldered everything according to the guide here, but I did not add the 75ohm resistors as this site told me the USA SNES2 does not need them.

SNES is the only console I've tried this setup with because it's my most favorite console of all time.

[Midori]

Sorry, I thought it was a pic of your cable :-) I soon realised my mistake.

Here is a schematic first for the cable: http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#snes

Since you have a US snes the only components you need otherwise than cables in your scart plug is three Capacitors rated 220 uF and a resistor with a value of 180 ohms. The value of the resistor doesn't do anything with the colors though so you can ignore the resistor.

But I'm confused here.

You have two Snes units? One original modell and one of the newer "mini" versions?

The Orginal Snes looks good on your setup?

The Snes 2 does not look good?

The Snes you are talking about in the first post is the Snes 2 unit?

You should definetly have 75 ohm resistors on the RGB lines in your Snes 2 :-) Where did you read that you shouldn't have them? Here is the guide that I found here and it says that you should have resistors: http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:snes2rgb

You also say "USA Snes 2", the japanese and american Snes 2 are nothing short of identical, the mod is the same for both of them and both will require resistors to bring the colour levels down. There is no PAL Snes 2 so saying USA Snes 2 sounds strange :-)

[DaddyLongLegs]

Thanks again for your willingness to help so far!

Sorry, I thought it was a pic of your cable :-) I soon realised my mistake.

Here is a schematic first for the cable: http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#snes

I am very familiar with that schematic page, thanks for the link anyway. The reason it's useless to me is as you saw in the page I linked from gamesx, I don't need all that wiring. It specifically says, since I'm using that SCART to component transcoder, that I only need to hook up R, G, B, sync, and ground wires. This is what I am trying to accomplish (what is shown in the pic) but I just can't make the pic out. I am also confused as to the wiring needed for ground. I know ground is pin 6 on the SNES connector, but where does it go from there? To audio ground, R ground, G ground and B ground? How the heck do I even wire something like that? In the pic I can make out a black wire that must be the ground coming from the cable (along with R,G,B and S) but I can't make out what it's doing or where it's going.

Since you have a US snes the only components you need otherwise than cables in your scart plug is three Capacitors rated 220 uF and a resistor with a value of 180 ohms. The value of the resistor doesn't do anything with the colors though so you can ignore the resistor.

Wait, so I don't need the 180 ohm resistor or I do? If I do, where does it go? According to the diagram you linked me to it's for the +5v line but according to the page I linked here I don't need the +5v wired up 

You have two Snes units? One original modell and one of the newer "mini" versions?

The Orginal Snes looks good on your setup?

The Snes 2 does not look good?

The Snes you are talking about in the first post is the Snes 2 unit?

You should definetly have 75 ohm resistors on the RGB lines in your Snes 2 :-) Where did you read that you shouldn't have them? Here is the guide that I found here and it says that you should have resistors: http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:snes2rgb

You also say "USA Snes 2", the japanese and american Snes 2 are nothing short of identical, the mod is the same for both of them and both will require resistors to bring the colour levels down. There is no PAL Snes 2 so saying USA Snes 2 sounds strange :-)

Thanks so much for clearing that up. I don't know where the hell I heard the SNES 2 does not need resistors. I must be have been mistaken with the old guide that said it doesn't need the interference filter. The lack of resistors is definitely why my SNES 1 looked fine but the SNES 2 did not. I just ordered a bunch of resistors so I will be sure to install them. Just out of curiosity, does it matter how resistors are installed? Meaning the direction they run in?

As for the original SNES looking good in my setup, I bought a massive amount of SNES RGB SCART cables and got lucky that one of them was the one with the 220 uF capacitors in the cable. That's the only cable that gave me a decent picture. The reason I am concerned is because the picture merely looks "alright". I have to adjust the dials inside the SCART to component transcoder to ridiculous levels (like all the way to one side where you can't turn it any more) and if I go too far (when things start looking good) I get interference that looks like wavy lines and other junk on the screen.

Any advice would be incredibly appreciated.

[RGB32E]

The DVDO stuff is only appropriate for 480i and above.

At this point in time the XRGB-3 is the defacto way to display 240p RGB on HDTVs.

Unfortunately one has to jump through flaming hoops to acquire a XRGB-3... perhaps the XRGB-4 will be different!

As a general rule, the shorter the cable the better for analog signals that don't have noise cancellation, ect.   

[DaddyLongLegs]

The DVDO stuff is only appropriate for 480i and above.

At this point in time the XRGB-3 is the defacto way to display 240p RGB on HDTVs.

Unfortunately one has to jump through flaming hoops to acquire a XRGB-3... perhaps the XRGB-4 will be different!

As a general rule, the shorter the cable the better for analog signals that don't have noise cancellation, ect.   

My DVDO Edge, when I click information when playing SNES, actually says 240p. So I don't think it's seeing a 480i/p signal or anything. Plus I spent a good $600 on the DVDO Edge and that XRGB-3 is another $400.

[DaddyLongLegs]

Ok I am gonna simplify this like crazy:



What is going on in this picture exactly?

[imparanoic]

would it be better if you can find the rare official super famicom rgb cable SHVC-010 (possibly cost a bit at around US$60-US$80 though but saves the hassle ) or at find a thrid party one at a faction of the price

I am using a US super nintendo with rgb SHVC-010 super famicom cable with great results (via xrgb 2 plus, but also tried with xrgb1 and xrgb2 non plus)

[RGB32E]

Ok I am gonna simplify this like crazy:



What is going on in this picture exactly?

It's a SHVC-010 shortened and wired for SCART RGB (no audio).  I've since terminated the same cable for JP21 for use with my XRGB-3:



Enjoy DLL!

[DaddyLongLegs]

Thanks a bunch! I ordered an SHVC-010 so lets hope it works natively with the scart to yuv transcoder because the damn cable cost me $50. Ouch.

But when I said "what's going on in this picture?" I meant it a little more literally. I was wondering what's going where so I can wire up my own cable.

What I do know is the obvious. R is going from pin 1 on the SNES then it's going to a capacitor then SCART pin 15. G is going from pin 2 on the SNES then to a capacitor then going to pin 11 on the SCART cable. B is coming from pin 4 on the SNES then going to a capacitor then pin 7 on the SCART cable. This is all I can tell. I can't make out the rest. It looks like the copper shielding or ground or whatever that is below the R, G, B, and S insulation is being soldered somewhere? I can't tell where. I also have no idea where the ground is coming from or what SCART pin it's going to or what else is attached to it.

Please, please help. I am going batty over this

[micro]

You really schouldn't have ordered a SHVC-010 when you already own some RGB Scart leads. It should be easy to rewire them.

Ok I am gonna simplify this like crazy:

What is going on in this picture exactly?

R, G & B soldered with a 220µF cap to Scart pin 15, 11 & 7. The grounds of R, G & B are soldered to pin 13, 9 & 5
Composite sync (or composite video) is soldered to pin 20, sync ground to pin pin 18.
I can also see a black wire (probably ground) going somewhere else...

I'd recommend you to make an RGB cable using following pinout on viletims homepage: http://members.optushome.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm#snes

Watch out, only the lower pinout is suitable for NTSC machines. Just leave out all the audio stuff and you should be fine.

The SNES2 aka SNES Mini has a superb RGB picture, much sharper then original SNES 1 consoles. I got 2 of them, I love them

[DaddyLongLegs]

Wow! Thanks a lot for the info. Didn't know the SNES2 gives out better RGB. Did you use 75ohm resistors? When I install them, does it matter which direction they point in?

R, G & B soldered with a 220µF cap to Scart pin 15, 11 & 7. The grounds of R, G & B are soldered to pin 13, 9 & 5
Composite sync (or composite video) is soldered to pin 20, sync ground to pin pin 18.
I can also see a black wire (probably ground) going somewhere else...

Thanks. Very helpful but... where are the other ends of the R, G, and B grounds being soldered to? Meaning when it reaches the SNES cable side, where so I solder the grounds to? I know which pins R, G, and B go to on the SNES cable, I just don't know where I'm supposed to solder the grounds on that end.

The black wire is what's killing me, too. I can't make out for my life where it's going or what's going to it. I know it comes from pin 5 or 6 (it doesn't matter, right?) on the SNES side, but where it's going, what's going to it, and what it's doing in that pic is a mystery to me. Halp!

[RGB32E]

Wow! Thanks a lot for the info. Didn't know the SNES2 gives out better RGB. Did you use 75ohm resistors? When I install them, does it matter which direction they point in?

R, G & B soldered with a 220µF cap to Scart pin 15, 11 & 7. The grounds of R, G & B are soldered to pin 13, 9 & 5
Composite sync (or composite video) is soldered to pin 20, sync ground to pin pin 18.
I can also see a black wire (probably ground) going somewhere else...

Thanks. Very helpful but... where are the other ends of the R, G, and B grounds being soldered to? Meaning when it reaches the SNES cable side, where so I solder the grounds to? I know which pins R, G, and B go to on the SNES cable, I just don't know where I'm supposed to solder the grounds on that end.

The black wire is what's killing me, too. I can't make out for my life where it's going or what's going to it. I know it comes from pin 5 or 6 (it doesn't matter, right?) on the SNES side, but where it's going, what's going to it, and what it's doing in that pic is a mystery to me. Halp!

IIRC, the black wire is connected to +5VDC or CSYNC (don't recall which, but one of the two!).

[micro]

IIRC, the black wire is connected to +5VDC or CSYNC (don't recall which, but one of the two!).

If it was Csync, it would have been connected to pin 20, which is already occupied by the yellow cable so it must be +5V then, I guess

But Daddy, you can't rely on the color of the cable. I've seen RGB Scart leads where even the wires for R, G & B weren't red, blue and green. I'd use a multimeter to be sure...

Don't worry too much about all those grounds for R, G & B. The Nintendo AV port only provides 1 ground.
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:nintendomultiav (actually 2 ground pins, but connected)
And if you look at the pictures of the SCART socket of the CSY2100 you can actually see that all those different grounds are connected.

Did you use 75ohm resistors? When I install them, does it matter which direction they point in?

Yes, I used 75Ohm resistors inside the SNES2 between the S-RGB video chip and the AV port pins. Direction doesn't matter.
But be careful with those 220µF caps, minus must point towards the SCART connector; plus towards the console.

[RGB32E]

I'm the one who posted that picture!!! 

Yes, it should be +5VDC, not CSYNC, or I would've used it!.  Hrmm... I'll have to double check, as I might have moved composite video to CSYNC! :S

[DaddyLongLegs]

I'm the one who posted that picture!!! 

Yes, it should be +5VDC, not CSYNC, or I would've used it!.  Hrmm... I'll have to double check, as I might have moved composite video to CSYNC! :S

I thought +5VDC wasn't used? The description says only RGBS + ground.

[RGB32E]

I'm the one who posted that picture!!! 

Yes, it should be +5VDC, not CSYNC, or I would've used it!.  Hrmm... I'll have to double check, as I might have moved composite video to CSYNC! :S

I thought +5VDC wasn't used? The description says only RGBS + ground.

It isn't used by the CSY-2100... it's a part of the cable, so it's just "there".

[DaddyLongLegs]

I'm the one who posted that picture!!! 

Yes, it should be +5VDC, not CSYNC, or I would've used it!.  Hrmm... I'll have to double check, as I might have moved composite video to CSYNC! :S

I thought +5VDC wasn't used? The description says only RGBS + ground.

It isn't used by the CSY-2100... it's a part of the cable, so it's just "there".

Oh ok so I don't need to wire the +5VDC then? Can you help me out with the ground wire and where that's going in your pic?

[RGB32E]

I'm the one who posted that picture!!!  

Yes, it should be +5VDC, not CSYNC, or I would've used it!.  Hrmm... I'll have to double check, as I might have moved composite video to CSYNC! :S

I thought +5VDC wasn't used? The description says only RGBS + ground.

It isn't used by the CSY-2100... it's a part of the cable, so it's just "there".

Oh ok so I don't need to wire the +5VDC then? Can you help me out with the ground wire and where that's going in your pic?

The whole point of this forum and wiki is to provide the basis of understanding for "connecting the dots".  Me thinks you have enough info!

[Link83]

Thanks a bunch! I ordered an SHVC-010 so lets hope it works natively with the scart to yuv transcoder because the damn cable cost me $50. Ouch.

The SHVC-010 is wired to the Japanese 21-pin RGB connector specification:-
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:japanese_rgb-21
This is completely different to the SCART specification/pinout:-
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:scart_connector
Dont connect the SHVC-010 to your transcoder!

[DaddyLongLegs]

Yeah I completely dismantled my $50 SHVC-010 and the picture still looks crummy. I mean it looks acceptable but s-video was still way better. I think it's the transcoder. So Another $100 down the toilet and I bought a SCART to HDMI converter. I'm not to comfortable because it CONVERTS the signal to 720p where I'd rather it keep it 240p and let my scaler do the rest, but I think it's my only option at this point. /cries

[RGB32E]

Yeah I completely dismantled my $50 SHVC-010 and the picture still looks crummy. I mean it looks acceptable but s-video was still way better. I think it's the transcoder. So Another $100 down the toilet and I bought a SCART to HDMI converter. I'm not to comfortable because it CONVERTS the signal to 720p where I'd rather it keep it 240p and let my scaler do the rest, but I think it's my only option at this point. /cries

Sounds like you need to seek out a XRGB-2 or XRGB-3.   

[imparanoic]

SHVC-010 should be used with xrgb2 or xrgb2 plus op xrgb3, most people have used it have stated it's the best way for playing super nintendo. pc engine, megadrive, psone, n64, etc, however, it's very rare machine, i come across one or two every few months ( not often on ebay either)

[micro]

@DaddyLongLegs: Have you sorted out your problems with the CSY2100 or do you stick with the Scart->HDMI converter?

I got myself a CSY2100 knockoff some weeks ago. My problem with my Panasonic plasma TV was that consoles connected through Scart-RGB showed this annoying checkerboard pattern, most apparent in red/yellow colors.


Turned out that this pattern was caused by feeding RGB+composite video to the TV instead of RGB+composite sync.
So I used RGB+composite sync and I got a clear picture but unfortunately it was shifted to the left to an annoying extent.


So I wanted to transcode RGB->YUV and bought the CSY2100 (knockoff). I hooked everything up and I didn't get a picture. The CSY2100 seemed broken. I contacted the seller, got a refund but he didn't want me to return the transcoder.

I opened the device to see if I can fix it somehow.


I tried to mess with the 6 pots. In contrast to the real CSY2100 the pots aren't glued. They were all in the exact middle position. But turning the pots didn't change a thing.
Next I resoldered all the pins of the 7 ICs. Fortunately they were way bigger than the ICs in the real CSY2100.
Well, that did the job! The transcoder did finally work!

The picture quality is great but the build quality of the fake CSY2100 is really crappy. It seems there was no QA and most certainly no function test.
It's still necessary to feed the CSY2100 knockoff with RGB+sync, with rgb+video you still get the checkerboard pattern (at least with my Panasonic plasma TV). I ended up installing a LM1881 sync stripper inside the device, works great.

So DaddyLongLegs, if you're also using a cheap CSY2100 knockoff the bad picture may be caused by a cold solder joint like in my device, or by using RGB+video instead of RGB+sync.