GameCube "DIGITAL AV OUT" port.

[Bootman]

Ok, we all know that Nintendo sells a cable that puts out YCrCb and said cable can be modified to output RGBHV.

Does anyone know what the "DIGITAL AV OUT" port is sending to the little MX chip housed in the cable?

I seem to recall that someone indicated it was YPbPr, has that been verified?
If it is YPbPr than using that could be even better than a RGBHV because it would have to go through one less conversion, right?

Why is the GameCube still missing from the "AV Port Pinouts" list on the GameSX.com Main Page?
(Come to think of it the PS2 is missing as well, I just don't give a rat's duff about that console.)

Thanks.

[benzaldehyde]

Good sir,

Welcome. I, as the least experienced forum-goer, will attempt to answer your questions. I assume the GC is outputs various data through the port, including what can be converted to RGB, component, and even precursors to digital audio. The MX chip is the DAC, and so handles all conversions. Pin 12 controls the switching between component and RGB video. I am unsure as to the type of component video involved; I assume it's whatever is most common. (I don't much use component.) RGBHV is technically superior to any component format. Component uses three encoded signals, and encoding means some loss of image quality. RGB is completely pure, straight from the video processor. The separate H and V sync is also unencoded (per se); the monitor usually requires such signals to be separate, and often contains circuitry to divide them from composite sync or composite video. This wouldn't have any effect on video quality. Between component and RGB, though, the difference (I'm told) depends more on the quality of your TV/monitor; the formats are pretty close in image quality. The GC AV port pinout is the same as on the SNES and N64, but NTSC consoles don't output RGB through it. RGB comes from the digital port. A wise engineer-type person from beyond our shores by name of Oscar discovered the secret of GC RGB some time ago. Here's his data:

http://atarilabs.com/cgi-bin/UltraBoard/Ul...SID=62893#ID390

Also, this is a good guide.

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mar...84/ngcrgb_e.htm

The PS2 and PS1 ports are identical, although the PS2 can switch to component video. I hope this helps.

[Bootman]

RGB may be very close to pure, but there is still a DAC involved.

I doubt that the GameCube directly outputs any find of component signal.  The only way I can imagine that it directly outputs RGB is if picking up pin one of the MX chip is if pin one disables all processing and leaves perhaps only a signal booster.  (I recall reading that the VGA signal is full and proper strength wise.)

To get an idea of what "No DAC involved" pure is look here:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/bravo_d1.htm

What I am getting at is this:

What is the "DIGITAL AV OUT" spitting out?  If it is a digital video signal than perhaps a DDC could get one a DVI signal.  It may take a FPGA and a small fortune to do it but it would be possible.

I did e-mail Macronix and asked for some info on the IC based on it's markings and I was that it was created for a client and is confidential.

[benzaldehyde]

Ah, good point. I should say most consoles directly output RGB, eh? :blink: True, the GC may well output a milieu of digital data, but learning what it could all be might require beating some of ATI or Nintendo's engineers. I can testify, and doubtlessly so can others, that the GC VGA is razor sharp and looks wonderful. Perhaps you could find a VGA to DVI adapter? It would cost a lot less than what you may be planning, and the image quality would be very similar.

[Bootman]

I use a DLP projector to watch movies and play games.  (Think 8' screen)

I found going from a Component DVD player to a DVI DVD player rewarding.
I found going from a VGA video card to a DVI video card rewarding.

In both cases I suspect that the removal of DACs and ADCs from the equation had the largest part in the improvements.

Getting a VGA to DVI doohickey would simply move the ADC from the projector to a little box.

Hmm,  did not think of "asking" Nintendo or ArtX...

*Dons red bandana and leaps through the nearest window*

Edit: Fixed typo

[MentholMoose]

Has anyone made one of these?
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mar...84/ngcspdif.gif
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mars/9984/PROTO1.jpg

[Hojo_Norem]

Has anyone made one of these?
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mar...84/ngcspdif.gif
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mars/9984/PROTO1.jpg

I would like to.  But I can't find the parts here in the UK.  (googling uk sites turns up nothing.  the same is true for the chip needed for the SNES spdif mod)

[Vertigo]

Have you tried special ordering from Rapid Electronics?
Failing all that, try ordering it via Maplin, just don't go in there and ask them anything as they've become like Dixons in the last few years, employing kids who know nowt but what they've been told to sell.

[Jopapa]

I can testify, and doubtlessly so can others, that the GC VGA is razor sharp and looks wonderful...

GC VGA??? This a cable you can buy, or are you referring to the DIY that MentholMoose posted?

[Richter X]

Yes, you can buy a pre-made Gamecube VGA cable. Try searching places like Goldenshop, Lan-Kwei, and Gamestech.

These cables keep getting cheaper and cheaper. I hope they get to a price I can afford (like $20).

[Jopapa]

Yes, you can buy a pre-made Gamecube VGA cable. Try searching places like Goldenshop, Lan-Kwei, and Gamestech.

These cables keep getting cheaper and cheaper. I hope they get to a price I can afford (like $20).

Sweet. I also saw the modified RGB cable too in EUR format. If I could get a EUR to JAP adapter (or just modify the pinout on the EUR plug) for that I could just use an XRGB2+ with a 22" monitor and call it good.

Man, so many options to getting back into the console world...

[benzaldehyde]

Jopapa, be careful. The PAL consoles output RGB through the normal AV out, and unfortunately, doesn't support progressive scan. I'm not familiar with this DIY, though. I'd love to see it; is it VGA or 15kHz?  

[Guest]

Jopapa, be careful. The PAL consoles output RGB through the normal AV out, and unfortunately, doesn't support progressive scan. I'm not familiar with this DIY, though. I'd love to see it; is it VGA or 15kHz?

I'm not sure, actually. This is the one I was referring to:

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mar...84/ngcspdif.gif
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mars/9984/PROTO1.jpg

I've got a buddy who's real big into electrical stuff and DIY kits, so I'd prolly have him help me with this. Seems like a killer deal tho if you can make it work. VGA output AND S/PDIF in one box connected to the CG. Only problem though is (again) getting it to work with games that don't support progressive scan. If there was a work-around for that, I'd be ordering parts already...

[Jopapa]

Jopapa, be careful. The PAL consoles output RGB through the normal AV out, and unfortunately, doesn't support progressive scan. I'm not familiar with this DIY, though. I'd love to see it; is it VGA or 15kHz?

I'm not sure, actually. This is the one I was referring to:

http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mar...84/ngcspdif.gif
http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mars/9984/PROTO1.jpg

I've got a buddy who's real big into electrical stuff and DIY kits, so I'd prolly have him help me with this. Seems like a killer deal tho if you can make it work. VGA output AND S/PDIF in one box connected to the CG. Only problem though is (again) getting it to work with games that don't support progressive scan. If there was a work-around for that, I'd be ordering parts already...

Woops that was me. Forgot to sign in.

Corrected GIF link: http://www.geocities.co.jp/Technopolis-Mar...84/ngcspdif.gif

I wish the guy had more info on his page about building this, cause I'd love to find out if it's a viable solution for all GC gaming.

[benzaldehyde]

Ah, yes. I've seen that, though I had no idea whose work it was. It looks as though he is working on a JAP NTSC GC, so they would support progressive scan games. Unfortunately, the only way to bump non-supportive games into progressive scan mode would be to use an upscan converter such as the X-RGB 2 (+). I find it shameful that after the Dreamcast gave us an entire library of progressive scan games, Sony can only provide a few and Nintendo only a handful. Props to Microsoft, though, (they couldn't screw up EVERYTHING) for making so many games progressive scan ready. Now if they had just left the VGA function unlocked... :lol:  

[Jopapa]

Now if they had just left the VGA function unlocked...

Is there any easy way to unlock it?

[Richter X]

Easy? Maybe with the special program. I can't remember its name, though. There's also a program that makes the X-Box's dashboard, DVD playback, and backup games run in 480p.

[benzaldehyde]

It's in no way easy, at least to a lightweight like me. It takes a modchip flashed with a special BIOS to set 480p, and then it can't easily be set back to normal 15kHz (or so as I understood it). That, and it only works with XBox version 1.0. I've been working with the X2VGA, but even that has its caveats.

[Jopapa]

It's in no way easy, at least to a lightweight like me. It takes a modchip flashed with a special BIOS to set 480p, and then it can't easily be set back to normal 15kHz (or so as I understood it). That, and it only works with XBox version 1.0. I've been working with the X2VGA, but even that has its caveats.

Dang. So it seems I'd have to make sure I got a 1.0 'Box either way. Well if it involves installing a mod chip, my buddy can help me out. Now to just find the bugger on the 'Net...

[Vidgamer]

I can testify, and doubtlessly so can others, that the GC VGA is razor sharp and looks wonderful...

GC VGA??? This a cable you can buy, or are you referring to the DIY that MentholMoose posted?

benzaldehyde posted links on how to build the cable.

I recently built the cable, and of course the picture is great.  Building the cable is hard!  It's one of the hardest (console mod type) projects I've done!  The pins are very small and very tough to work with.  Plus, I had to redo some of my wiring over until I got it to where it'd be secure.

The best part about it was that I found the D-Terminal cable for cheap (online)!  So, the cable was a bargain, as long as you didn't count the hours of labor!  Ugh.  But eventually, it all worked.  Most of the games I've gotten support progressive mode, but I get the feeling that many don't, so I must be lucky.

Thanks to Oscar, whereever he is.  

As for SPDIF, I thought I read that it only gives you 2 channels?  If so, I don't see much point in that mod.

[Hojo_Norem]

I can testify, and doubtlessly so can others, that the GC VGA is razor sharp and looks wonderful...

GC VGA??? This a cable you can buy, or are you referring to the DIY that MentholMoose posted?

benzaldehyde posted links on how to build the cable.

I recently built the cable, and of course the picture is great.  Building the cable is hard!  It's one of the hardest (console mod type) projects I've done!  The pins are very small and very tough to work with.  Plus, I had to redo some of my wiring over until I got it to where it'd be secure.

The best part about it was that I found the D-Terminal cable for cheap (online)!  So, the cable was a bargain, as long as you didn't count the hours of labor!  Ugh.  But eventually, it all worked.  Most of the games I've gotten support progressive mode, but I get the feeling that many don't, so I must be lucky.

Thanks to Oscar, whereever he is.  

As for SPDIF, I thought I read that it only gives you 2 channels?  If so, I don't see much point in that mod.

True, however some people like to connect their audio and video sources via the best possible method.  In the case of video its either RGB or DVI and for audio Coaxial or Optical.  I have my PS2 hooked up via optical and I havent seen any games which have surround higher than pro logic II.

And besides, on my pal cube there is terrible interferance on the audio on my rgb scart lead, most noticible on screens with high brightness and contrast.  Heck, even the sound test screen on smash bros. has interferance, unless I unplug the scart end or use the c stick to tilt the screen into a corner reducing the amount of bright white on a single line.

[Vidgamer]

True, however some people like to connect their audio and video sources via the best possible method.  In the case of video its either RGB or DVI and for audio Coaxial or Optical.  .....

Someone posted (above?) that DVI would be better than RGB, if you didn't have to convert to analog.  OK, I can buy that, although I'd be shocked to think that there'd be much of a difference.  (At least on the GC, the RGB output is extremely clear, although I wouldn't say sharp, with it being 640x480, but still, I can't imagine trying to go for "better" -- I'm very satisfied with this!)

You do have to ask yourself, at what point are you just being obsessive?  I'll step out on a limb and say that there should be nothing wrong with an analog audio connection from a game machine.   :-)  It's not like we're talking about hiss from an analog source like from cassette tape, you're just trading off where the digital to analog conversion occurs -- in the game or in your receiver -- but the conversion WILL occur.  If this were 10 years ago, I might say that you might be concerned about the parts used in game consoles, but even then, the 3DO had a decent DAC, from what I recall being said at the time.

The PS2 is a different case, because you can justify the connection because you can get true discrete 5.1 audio from DVDs.  (I haven't tried any DTS CDs...) You're probably right about no games having true 5.1, but I can't say that I've ever looked for a game for that feature.  I also use the optical-out from my PS2.  I'd use optical on the GC if it was already present, but I can't be excited about wiring a project just for that.   No DVDs or even CDs with the GC, so if all of the games have 2ch, then that pretty much settles that!

About the interference, that sounds weird.  Have you tried adding some shielding and/or checking the cables?  If the audio is bundled into the scart cable along with the video, that sounds like that could be related to the problem.... In that case you might be left with no choice!  (Well, except perhaps try a different cable that might have less interference.  Do you have any problems with normal video & separate audio cables?)  My comments above assume a clean audio signal (which is usually the case).  If I had that interference, it might be enough reason for me to start that project, so in your case, I say go for it!  

[NeoBahamut]

After scanning the posts I still can�t find the answer to the initial question -  anyone got the pinout for the GC digital port? I�m a little curious as well to find out if it�s possible to get the component signals directly out of the machine.

[Guest]

After scanning the posts I still can�t find the answer to the initial question -  anyone got the pinout for the GC digital port? I�m a little curious as well to find out if it�s possible to get the component signals directly out of the machine.

If it were possible to get component signals directly from the machine then why would nintendo have added the DAC to begin with?

[NeoBahamut]

Because they�re EEEEVVVVIIILLLL (muuuuuhahahahahaha!!!!!). No, wonder why? Got a point there..

[Krobar]

Anyone have a copy of the digital audio out instructions in the broken Japanese link? Or any info on the pinout for this port?

[RARusk]

"About the interference, that sounds weird. Have you tried adding some shielding and/or checking the cables?"

The interference is caused by the +5VDC on the Xbox's AV port. I had a similar problem with my RGB box which is powered by the console it is attached to. I solved the problem by running the +5VDC through a piece of ferrite (although an inductor will work just as well) and the problem cleared right up. Should be fairly easy to hack one into a X2VGA device.

[RARusk]

Bleh. Wrong interference problem. It's 1:08 AM here and I'm too tired to read things properly.

Cool. My 100th post. Yay for me.

*goes to bed and dreams in RGB Analog*

[Krobar]

Sorry to ask so many questions, Im hoping someone knows the answer to one. Does anyone know what DAC chips is used in the Gamecube Component video cable? Or what DAC is uesd to feed the Analogue Out?

Sorry to ask so many Qs but I have a Neogeo coming soon and Ideally I need to move either my GC or Sat Reciever to SDI or DVI cos i dont have enough RGB/Component inputs left.

[Aidan]

It's propriatory, and created by a third party specifically to Nintendo's specification. No idea what the format used actually is however. I suspect the signal at the digital AV port is just a mirror of the information sent to the internal DACs.

[NFG]

The GC outputs digital component, the DAC converts it to analogue component or, when hacked, analogue RGB.  The exact format of the digital component (remember there's no standard, per se) is unknown, at least to me.

[viletim!]

And besides, on my pal cube there is terrible interferance on the audio on my rgb scart lead, most noticible on screens with high brightness and contrast. Heck, even the sound test screen on smash bros. has interferance, unless I unplug the scart end or use the c stick to tilt the screen into a corner reducing the amount of bright white on a single line.

Are you using a dodgy third party cable? I've heard the same interferance on one of my PSX SCART cables. It's caused by a poor grounding and no sheilding - the video wires are wrapped around the audio ones (the video info gets into the high Z audio input).