PAL Gamecube RGB

[Martin]

Yes..
Do you know Nintendo of Europe actually think that the PAL GCN out puts 60Hz NTSC when you run a game at 60Hz? o_0
It doesnt it only outputs 60Hz PAL, I tested this with many different systems.
I tested it on 2 PAL non NTSC compatible TV with 50-60Hz reffresh rates and a composite video cable; and I got a 60Hz signal.. so it HAS to be outputting PAL at 60Hz otherwise I would have got a greyscale image through a composite cable. <_<

[Darklegion]

And that has to do with RGB,how? lol

Thats pretty funny in any case,shows how little involvement europe has in a japanese company.Although you'd think they'd have to know this order to get PAL ports working properly....I'm guessing pal games all run in 50hz,then?

[Vertigo]

They only say that so that you go out and buy one of their overpriced RGB SCART leads. Ignore them, by and large Nintendo Europe knows nothing, Nintendo UK even less. I used to call NoA Hotline on the odd occasion when I was stuck because every time I called Nintendo UK they were useless and couldn't help or said "It's just practice". Stupid fucks.

[martianviking]

Funny; it has been my experience that Sega is exactly the opposite.  Inquiries to Sega of America tend to result in a curt and nonsensical form letter, while Sega of Europe tends to be very helpful and even downright friendly.

[Martin]

Funny; it has been my experience that Sega is exactly the opposite.  Inquiries to Sega of America tend to result in a curt and nonsensical form letter, while Sega of Europe tends to be very helpful and even downright friendly.

Agreed.
Sega europe even send out Dreamkey 3 discs out for free if you didn't get one when they were released.
 

[Martin]

And that has to do with RGB,how? lol

Thats pretty funny in any case,shows how little involvement europe has in a japanese company.Although you'd think they'd have to know this order to get PAL ports working properly....I'm guessing pal games all run in 50hz,then?

Well... Nintendo claim you have to buy an RGB lead to view 60Hz images on a PAL TV because they think it outputs an NTSC signal. But it outputs PAL at 60Hz. And no... PAL GCN titles can display at 60Hz, its just not a NTSC signal, Its a PAL Signal running at 60Hz.

[Endymion]

Erm.

Nintendo claim you have to buy an RGB lead to view 60Hz images on a PAL TV because they think it outputs an NTSC signal.

RGB is neither PAL nor NTSC. I'd hope an RGB cable is sending an RGB signal--not a PAL one.

[Martin]

Erm.

Nintendo claim you have to buy an RGB lead to view 60Hz images on a PAL TV because they think it outputs an NTSC signal.

RGB is neither PAL nor NTSC. I'd hope an RGB cable is sending an RGB signal--not a PAL one.

You failed to see my point again.
The PAL GAMECUBE outputs a PAL signal when it is running at 60Hz, there fore there is no need for an RGB cable for it to display in color on a PAL TV.
But nintendo are under the illusion that it outputs NTSC. There fore there would be a need for an RGB cable.
If you want... I can spell it out in stupid language for you.

[Vertigo]

Erm.

Nintendo claim you have to buy an RGB lead to view 60Hz images on a PAL TV because they think it outputs an NTSC signal.

RGB is neither PAL nor NTSC. I'd hope an RGB cable is sending an RGB signal--not a PAL one.

Don't tell us, tell them.

[Endymion]

You failed to see my point again.

You failed to master the English language again.

If you want... I can spell it out in stupid language for you.

Don't bother, you put it that way twice already.

[Martin]

Erm.

Nintendo claim you have to buy an RGB lead to view 60Hz images on a PAL TV because they think it outputs an NTSC signal.

RGB is neither PAL nor NTSC. I'd hope an RGB cable is sending an RGB signal--not a PAL one.

PAL and NTSC are not meerly colour signals, the resolution of the images are different as well.

[madmalkav]

AFAIK, the only difference between PseudoPal -aka PAL60- and NTSC is the colour signal. Yeah, PAL60 have less resolution than PAL50.

[Guest]

pal50=720/576 and pal60=720/525

[KeepGood]

Where is all the confusion coming from?

Its really this simple...

On a PAL Gamecube, regardless of whether its running in 50Hz or 60Hz mode, it IS outputting a PAL 'Colour' signal, our TV sets require this remember   .

An RGB cable outputs the individual colours, ie. Red, Green and Blue, these three colours are used to create the picture we see.  Remember these are raw uncompressed colours (signals).

If you use an S-Video cable, the system will output two signals, Luma and Chroma.  The R,G and B are now compressed into two signals.

If you use a composite cable, the R,G and B signals are compressed all together and run down the one video wire. (I'm not mentioning the ground wires due to grounding is required anyway).

Thus, if an RGB cable is used, you can forget all about PAL (I,B,M,blah,blah,blah)or NTSC because the signals are raw, uncompressed, they arent in a PAL or NTSC format, ie. the bit your TV would need to decode.

So PAL and NTSC is the compression format used to compress or 'mix' the colour signals.

Get an RGB cable anyway, RGB will give you the highest quality picture (using analog that is) because there is no compression there.

Try jacking in your cube with a composite cable, fire up Zelda and look at the Nintendo logo on startup, you'll notice some colour bleeding and maybe some faint lines drifting through the picture (this will vary depending on the quality of your TV).

Now jack it with an RGB cable and you will instantly see the difference in quality.  

Now to the 50/60Hz bit...

Remember back in the good ole days when you were bouncing your snes pad off the wall, yup they were the days.  

Well if you remember, the PAL snes, megadrive, well pretty much any system back then had these nasty black borders top and bottom of the screen, this was due to the systems running at 50Hz (which at the time was standard because our power outlets are regulated at 50Hz).

Before I go any further I will say that when it comes to TV's they dont really go according to resolution, they go by lines.

All TV's back then had 625 lines on the screen. Now here is the strange bit. Games were all coded to a certain standard. They were all coded to output a certain resolution or amount of lines, keeping in mind how TV equipment output there picture.  This was great for people in the states, when they jacked in there games console and fired it up the picture fit the physical screen.  The hardware as standard was outputting the signal at 60Hz.  This was the norm.

Now over here (here being the UK), exactly the same game was released, they didnt take into account that our TV's ran at 50Hz (or just didnt care?), this produced what appeared to be a squashed image on our screens.

I myself was one of those 12 year old freaks that delivered papers until I could afford to buy the import system (ah the good ole chunky american snes). And using my RGB lead I could get the full screen picture in lovely blistering colours.

Most TV's will accept a 60Hz signal, this being because TV's always have a bit of give, meaning the signal is rarely exactly 50Hz or exactly 60Hz so they can accept a signal that is a bit off, it could be a little more or a little less than 50/60Hz.  Older TV sets had a vertical hold tuner knob thing (thats me being tachnical) that would allow you to manually change the 'vertical hold' to sync the picture.

So what difference does 50 or 60 Hz make.

Not alot really, its still crap in comparison to most monitors.  The 50 or 60 Hz is how quickly the picture on the screen updates.  Here in the UK, the picture on the screen as standard, updates 50 times a second or if you like, at 50Hz (this does not apply to EVERY TV set, some models can refresh at upto 100Hz and maybe higher  ), in the states the picture updated 60 times a second or again, 60Hz.

Try not to confuse this with frames per second, the refresh rate is not the same as fps.  Say you jack your PC into your TV, fire up Unreal Tournament and watch the frames per second counter, a blistering 200 and odd frames per second, but your trusty TV only updates 50 or 60 times a second. So when they are talking about Hz, keep in mind this is not fps.

Taking a breath...

Now before people start ripping into what I have just said, not all of the above is 100% precise.  There are times where the information I have given will vary. Like the 100Hz refresh rate of some TV's.  Lines compared to resolution and so forth.  This is a more basic explanation of how the whole lot comes together, just to clear up some bits and pieces for the beginners.  What I have written also only applies to analog signals, I have not covered the use of composite cables due to these are going digital, where once again, more factors change.    

This could be written much better than the way I have, feel free to point out my mistakes, when you have been typing for ages, mistakes become all the more common. lol

Cya

[KeepGood]

Oh yeah...

As far as I can remember the resolution for PAL modes are:-


PAL = 720x 576 and 768 x 576
PAL60 = 720 x 480