Cyber System AV Selector Pro

[wing]

Just saw this on ncsx, same price as the x-select-D4 O.O and what a product! with optical and LAN inputs.. only minus point being no VGA output.

official site
ncsx.com

[NFG]

Except for the fact that the XSelect-D4 is a transcoder and this device is merely a multi-input select box, sure, they're identical.  Oh, and the fact this device has 'D-Terminal' labels on what are clearly VGA ports, and that NCSX seems to be totally unclear on the fact Component Video is NOT the same as RGB...

Buyer beware indeed.

Thanks for the heads up tho, that's a lovely select box.

[wing]

:blink: I totally miss that!! buyers beware indeed! I've seen misspelled labels before, but wrong labeling altogether?! They couldn't even drawn the VGA port correctly.. notice the 5+5+4 pins (14 pins!)

[Endymion]

Holy shit man!  

I am officially pissed, this box is virtually identical to the domestically available Pelican AV Switchbox! You can pick it up at a Gamestop for 80 bucks, EB and other game retailers have them as well, hell you can even get it at best fucking buy for a hundred bucks.

You'll notice I said "virtually" there, what's covered in the virtualness? Well the one I grabbed a few months back did not have D-terminal understandably enough as this odditity has yet to make an appearance on this continent--but no fucking remote, either, whereas this one has a damn remote switcher!

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr!  :angry:

This is the exact same box almost down to every detail, same grain on the metal, same buttons, same layout on the rear, same everything that I can see, except those two Pelican omissions. Of course I'm sure the chances of Cyber Gadget selling the remote separately from their box are nil.  :angry:

[Endymion]

They couldn't even drawn the VGA port correctly.. notice the 5+5+4 pins (14 pins!)

That's because it's D-terminal, not VGA.

And I'm still  :angry: , by the way.  :angry:

[wing]

Ok, just cross-referenced with my xselect-D4, should be a D-Terminal alright (on the AV Selector Pro) but Cyber should leave out the pinholes like Micomsoft did, on their diagrams. Actual D-Terminals don't have pinholes anyways.

No matter, 80 bucks is a good buy! No remote and all. I just got my xselect-D4 this month.. imagine how I feel  

[wing]

O.O very identical indeed

Universal System Selector PRO HD

Endymion, where's yours manufactured?

[Endymion]

The box says "Made in China," if it isn't made at the same factory turning out the box you found I will eat my shorts.

Edit--if you grab this, don't order it, do it in person. I have no idea why Gamestop's site has a different MSRP but the local Gamestop has this very box for 79 bucks.

And I'm still  :angry:  about the remote.

[CZroe]

Best Buy sells one unbranded and on Pelican branded one. I was not pleased with mine yet I only paid $60.

[Endymion]

Well I read your thread first, but after reading this I'm unclear--did you get a generic brand or a Pelican brand switch? Mine doesn't have the problems you're showing.

[CZroe]

Pelican. It only does it with a few of the compontnent inputs and not others. I can imagine that it simply has a much less visible problem with the others. In fact, I wonder if I should just use 480i with everything because my TV has an excellent deinterlacer and yet the switch may introduce visual artifacts I simply don't notice making 480p worse than 480i. ie, the logic is that if this problem were so noticable, imagine what else it does that I don't immediately notice or can't notice without a direct comparison!

[Endymion]

Dude, your switchbox is screwed up. Some switches aren't closing the connection well or it could have a short somewhere, bad insulation, could be a number of problems with the make of a switch like this. Mine's perfect. [Except for not getting a remote. :angry: ] Go get your money back. If it screws with a component signal like this it's probably going to screw up your RGB signal if you try to use that also.

[CZroe]

Dude, your switchbox is screwed up. Some switches aren't closing the connection well or it could have a short somewhere, bad insulation, could be a number of problems with the make of a switch like this. Mine's perfect. [Except for not getting a remote. :angry: ] Go get your money back. If it screws with a component signal like this it's probably going to screw up your RGB signal if you try to use that also.

OK, I've been on a strange journey and this switch is DEFINATELY to blame. I would certainly object to saying that it is just mine that is screwed up

I tried the DVD player in 480p on that input and saw the same diagonal lines moving throughout the image. They were really clear and all the text had fluctuating jagged edges where the diagonal lines encountered them. The text was clearly shimmering when progressive-scan was enabled. The text returned to normal and the lines dissapeared when I switched the DVD player back to interlaced mode. All other inputs were fine.

I exchanged it at Best Buy on Tuesday night. When I got that unit home, the first thing I did was test 480p on all inputs with the DVD player. Everything looked fine until I connected the Gamecube to play a game. The colors were all off! I felt around and found that the Pr component output was loose. It didn't work at all. If you moved it and wiggled it for a while you MIGHT see the proper colors resotred for a split second but there wasn't even a point you could hold it at to get the colors to stay that way. The DVD player's menu was mostly blue so this was not apparent when I was looking for problems earlier. They up-sold me on the $9.99 replacement plan when I realized that they weren't supposed to allow an exchange after 30 days (Only repair).

I attempted to exchange it the next morning at the same store because I knew they still had one more of the same-colored unit. Well I'll be damned, it was opened and the component cabled were missing. I'm 100% sure this was an open-box return that they forgot to label as such because the other cables were not bagged either (Why would someone open the cables they were not going to take from the shelf?) but they stuck to their story. Perhaps all you have to do is claim that you never opend or used the item and it goes right back on the shelf as a new item :rolleyes:

So I went to a different Best Buy location well over 60 miles away on Thursday and made the exchange. It wasn't until yesterday (Friday) that I was finally able to test this one. I never expected it to be this bad! The same input I had problems with on the first unit had problems here too only now 480p with the DVD player looked flawless but with 480i output selected ig got a horrible buzzing sound and SOLID criss-crossing diagonal lines moving across the screen. With progressive-scan enabled, the image was flawless and the sound no longer buzzed, but the volume was somhow nearly muted (Though you could turn the sound system all the way up to hear something). It was ONLY with this input. The Gamecube did not have this problem in interlaced mode on that input like the DVD player did however the lines and shaking fluctuations seen on the first switch were once again visible in progressive scan. Intolerable.

What the hell can I do?! Good thing I got that replacement plan because It looks like I'll be fighting this one for a little while... Should I call Pelican if possible?

[Endymion]

Well after seeing this just now--and reading through the "DVD A/V enthusiast forum" you linked to earlier (I have a general distaste for those kinds of boards) last week--I set out to take a look at the highest resolution that I could get with my HDTV through the Pelican switchbox. My Philips HDTV monitor can do 480i, 480p, and 1080i. There is no 720p as with most CRT HDTVs, so 1080i is the best that I can crank things to try and reveal any inherent flaws to the switchbox mechanism. Although interlaced, I'd surely think that a resolution this high would show me something, if something were fishy with the design of the thing.

It's very easy to tell when this monitor switches modes--the onscreen info pops up in the upper left corner to let me know. Normally in 480i--I get no information if the screen is in that mode; once it switches, I'll see a 480p, or 1080i. All this time I've been using my switchbox (about a month now, for as long as I've had this HDTV) I haven't had any ghosting or interferance at 480i or 480p; I have HDTV via comcast cable (only five bucks extra per month) so I'm already accustomed to sitting at the telly and seeing the thing switch as the broadcast it picks up goes from interlaced to progressive mode, and the same thing happens when I'm playing my games, but I hadn't yet had the pleasure of sitting before a 1080i image, so I reached on the shelf for Syberia, the one Xbox game I have that operates at 1080i.

And there is no ghosting, no lines, no patterned interference to be seen, the game, the documentary film, the conceptual artwork sketches, the game itself are all very crisp, sharp, unwavering, rock solid, oh-my-god-I-think-I-could-put-my-hand-through-the-screen-it-looks-so-real motion pictures. I had played Syberia before, with a component capable TV that could only give 480i, so it was a whole new experience. I've seen a lot of geeks (mostly in A/V forums) go off on 1080i, and while I would have liked to have an HDTV (CRT) that could support 720p (a friend has a Toshiba CRT HDTV that can do 720p, looks great), I would much rather that more games could get it up to 1080i.

Point. Point? Oh yeah. Well, I think that more needs to be done to rule all else out here. This could, just could be something that your peculiar TV does not like. I don't suppose you have a buddy with an HDTV (hopefully another model) that you could lug your games and switchbox to, just to see what you see? Of course, if this is the case, and your TV is intolerant for whatever minute reason, well... who knows what your ultimate solution will be, but I'm guessing you won't want to keep a 70 dollar switchbox that gives you results like this, whatever the actual fault may be. So I don't know how far complaining to Pelican will get you. They do advertise pretty prominently that the use of their box won't damage your equipment--but since it all works fine without the switchbox, I'm not sure how that could qualify as damage.

What's the snowboarding game that showed that flickering? I'll try and get ahold of it and see what happens.

[CZroe]

It's 1080 Avalanche for Gamecube.

Also, the TV is ruled out as the problem for this simple reason: It's only the second input on the switch that gives me any problem at all... in both cases (First and third switch)! All other inputs are fine and because all else is equal there must be a problem with the switch My XBOX is the only true-HD device I own, and I do have the HD pack, but I have never been able to try it because it has not worked since 2002 (Well before I got the TV). It is something I can fix when I get around to it and that's why I went ahead and got the HD Pack when Best Buy had it on sale. Even so, the type of signal degredation is never supposed to be like this even for 1080i. People typically complain of bleeding or inaccurate colors, even washed out or dim picture when using a low-quality component switch for 1080i. Nothing this severe. Oh, and I hope the XBR910, currently the best tube in the industry, is one of the few CRT sets which can pull off 720p

To clear things up a bit, I have verified three defective switches:

Switch one had two major problems. Audio would cut out infrequently requiring the switch to be power-cycled every couple of weeks. Input 2 was also defective, causing distortion and interferance in progressive-scan mode.

Switch two has only one major problem I was able to identify (Didn't have it long enough for much else). The Pr component output was broken.

Switch three has two major problems. With my DVD player, the audio and video go haywire with criss-crossing diagonal lines similar to the first switch except now well-defined and accompanied by a VERY loud buzzing sound. Oddly, it only does this while in interlaced mode unlike the problem with the first switch. Progressive looks great with the DVD player but the same lines show up in progressive mode with the Gamecube. The audio does not buzz and the lines are not apparent when the GC is in interlaced mode. Strangely, the audio on input 2 is nearly silent when it's not emitting an ear-piercing buzz with the DVD player. This problem is entirely different than input one, though it is the exact same input that had trouble on it. All other inputs work fine.

[Endymion]

the TV is ruled out as the problem for this simple reason: It's only the second input on the switch that gives me any problem at all... in both cases (First and third switch)!

You can rule out the TV if you want to. So long as I'm seeing a perfect image on a different set, I'll keep that option open. Maybe my box is pristine whereas yours haven't been, but I'll easily admit after three different boxes to compare against mine, that's unlikely. I'm not saying I think your TV is fucked (although I'm not a fan of Sony's) but it does sound to me as if it doesn't like the same signal that my TV eats up with a gusto and asks for seconds.

Oh, and I hope the XBR910, currently the best tube in the industry, is one of the few CRT sets which can pull off 720p

According to Sony, that CRT does 720p. It's pretty pricey for a TV that size, just to grab one for 720p. The 720p games are about as numerous as the 1080i ones--in fact I think there are even more 1080i games (three or four) than there are 720p games at the moment. No way to tell if the development winds will blow to 720p or 1080i first, but I know which I prefer, and more TVs support it.

Also, I'm a little uneasy with these wonderful feature descriptions, "Digital Reality Creation� (DRC�) Multifunction V1 Circuitry --- The latest version of DRC� circuitry minimizes the visibility of scanning lines to create a beautiful, smoother picture, while also offering user control over detail and communicate the necessary levels to allow for a customized picture that is optimized for signal quality, viewing conditions and personal preference," "ineMotion� Reverse 3-2 Pulldown Technology --- A fixed algorithm irrespective of source which preserves the integrity of movie film frames to create great images." Can you turn those gadgets off and see what happens? Although, it looks like one has a pulldown control, the other might not.

When you say "input 2" I'm guessing you mean as the box identifies it?

[CZroe]

Yes, number 2 as the switchbox labels the inputs (They are all numbered on the back). Thnx to the switch, I'm only using two inputs on the TV (S-Video + Composite input number 1 and 1st Component input number 5). I'm using the box's dual audio outputs. One goes to the S-Video + Composite input using the switchbox's included all-in-one S-Video-Composite-Stereo audio cable and one goes to the Component input using the switchbox's included component cables and Sony audio cables.

Please understand: We are in 100% agreement that some Pelican Universal System Selector Pro units do not have this problem. That's why you get a perfect image. I was not saying that the TV is ruled out and so all PUSSP units are bad. I wasn't saying that all PUSSP units have this problem on input #2. In fact, only two of the three I tested had this problem. The one with the broken Pr output still looked perfect with the input in question. Basically, I'm only relating my findings as a testament to their horrible quality control on these units as three of three I have encountered have had different but serious defects (And there was one additional return for who-konws-why back on the store shelf)!

Oh, and all that enhancement stuff is disabled in progressive scan. Cinemotion has always been their name for their more fancy 3:2 pull-down deinterlacer which all TVs have more or less capable versions of (Button toggles between "Progressive", "Interlaced" and "Cinemotion" ONLY with standard 480i source material). The reason many progressive-scan DVD player owners disable progressive-scan and let their TV do the deinterlacing is because their TVs can deinterlace both film and TV sourced video when it is being fed as an interlaced signal, but not when fed as progressive or upconverted to an HD resolution. Most cheap (Sub-$250) progressive-scan DVD players can only deinterlace film-sourced material. This becomes VERY clear when you try to watch seasonal box set DVDs on a prog-scan player Disabling progressive output let's the TV's deinterlacer do the work. This is disabled by the set in 480p, 575p and all HD resolutions. The DRC button only works on TV and other sources too. Using TwinView, I've noted how it only works on one tuner and not the other because I can see interferance on the one it's not working on (Cheap cable service). It's mostly to clean up static and bad broadcast signals and is also disabled in progressive or HD resolutions.

[Endymion]

Please understand: We are in 100% agreement that some Pelican Universal System Selector Pro units do not have this problem. That's why you get a perfect image. I was not saying that the TV is ruled out and so all PUSSP units are bad. I wasn't saying that all PUSSP units have this problem on input #2. In fact, only two of the three I tested had this problem.

Right. I'll unplug my cable box and try that input #2 tomorrow.

By the way--only DVDs originally recorded for television broadcasts need be deinterlaced at all. DVDs from film are not interlaced to begin with.

[Endymion]

Well, my GameCube and my Xbox are both working the second input without issue.

Use this knowledge as you will.

[CZroe]

Please understand: We are in 100% agreement that some Pelican Universal System Selector Pro units do not have this problem. That's why you get a perfect image. I was not saying that the TV is ruled out and so all PUSSP units are bad. I wasn't saying that all PUSSP units have this problem on input #2. In fact, only two of the three I tested had this problem.

Right. I'll unplug my cable box and try that input #2 tomorrow.

By the way--only DVDs originally recorded for television broadcasts need be deinterlaced at all. DVDs from film are not interlaced to begin with.

Every time I say that I get a million conflicting responses on the AV forums saying that all DVDs are interlaced or that only film is progressive. Every time people dispute that it's even possible for films to be stored progressively on a DVD. It is, but I've only seen this with test DVDs like the DVD Essentials calibration disc.

Basically, very few films are ever flagged correctly as progressive (Every other frame will be incorrectly flagged as interlaced due to faulty but industry accepted encoders) AND sourced from progressive sources (There is no requirement that it be sourced from 35mm film). In fact, film-sourced DVDs are progressive only in the sense that the entire resolution of every progressive frame is available and can be reconstructed, but only after undoing the 3:2 frame rate conversion (Combining every other set of 2 fields into a frame and every other set of three fields into a frame. 24 + 24/2 * 3). All DVD format MPEG2 videos are decoded as 60 fields per second and film-sourced movies are only 24 frames per second. Because of this frame rate difference, film-sourced video must always be converted to 60 fields per second and stored for output as interlaced. For compression efficiency, duplicate fields can be left out as long as the frames are correctly flagged as progressive but this almost never happens. Each stored field is interlaced no matter what. It is only half the resolution of the original film's frame. The successive field with which it is interlaced happens to be the missing resolution from the first field. If the frame rate conversion generated three fields from that one frame from the film, the third frame will be a duplicate of the first and can be discarded.

[CZroe]

Well, my GameCube and my Xbox are both working the second input without issue.

Use this knowledge as you will.

Thnx. I'll be exchanging for the very last one available at local Best Buy stores tomorrow and if that doesn't work I'll see if I can hit a different batch with an even longer drive out to a third store. I'm quite sure that the two I encountered were simply two that had a common but not universal.

Do you have component cables for the GC? Mine works fine with or without them as long as I'm using interlaced mode. Also, only a few games seem to trigger the patterns or fluctuations (The fluctuations are clearly brightness-triggered). If you did have component cables, did you hold "B" to enable progressive scan on the GC?

Seeing as how the problem was actually more apparant on my DVD player's menu than on the GC, I'd expect similar problems with the XBOX. Did you try it in both interlaced and progressive modes? Standard 480i is what showed the worst problem with my DVD player with this last switch.

[Endymion]

Yes I have the GameCube component cable and yes I tried interlaced and progressive games on the second slot.

Incidentally my HDTV cable had been connected to that same input all this time without issue, leaving the Xbox there for the time being.

[CZroe]

Well, I discovered the the interferance I was seeing in Interlaced mode with the DVD player disapears when the composite video is disconnected (Using Component with composite output disabled, only connected to avoid having a loose cable). This was not a problem with the first switch. Even though the composite interfecrance only manifested in interlaced mode for the DVD player, it was also the source or interferance for the GCN. GCN component cables use a different connector on the GC and require the old cables to carry analog. Rather than leave the composite from those old cables disconnected, I connected them even though they wouldn't be used. This is not the same problem I had before.