Is the FC Twin any good?

[kattanFAN]

I am looking into buying the FC Twin, a third-party console that plays NES and SNES games.

Now, I keep hearing all sorts of things about it. I hear that games with the Super FX chip don't work, and some say they do. I heard that some NES games produce "junk on the screen" (one title I heard of this happening was Legend of Zelda). Cuz if a lot of games won't work (most notably Mega Man X3, certain Street Fighter games, etc.), I might not get this.

Also, with NES games with batteries, do I still hold down reset when shutting the console off, or does this fix that problem?

And if it plays NES games (but only uses SNES controllers), how would I get a NES controller to work? I have read the NES/SNES controller page on the site, but the idea of attaching a SNES plug to a NES controller seems to someone as inexperienced (modding-wise) as me seems to have the potential for major screw-ups.

I also heard that since there is no support for NES controllers, then there's no Zapper. With an adapter such as that mentioned above, would the Zapper work? If not, is there a way to get the Super Scope to work with NES games? If I'm right, there isn't.

[kendrick]

KF, the word you want to Google is 'Famiclone' which is a catch-all term that describes Famicom-compatible devices. This type of hardware need not be licensed since Nintendo's patents on certain technologies ran out. In general, these devices have documented compatibility problems and almost never work with Nintendo peripherals. Real NES and Famicom hardware is cheap and plentiful, and experienced system modders get more mileage out of the real thing.

-KKC

[phreak97]

yeah, the real thing is going to be MUCH better.. clones never reproduce a game quite right, there are always sound pitch and colour issues, also youll have a tough time finding one, especially one which plays snes and nes games, most online stores concider such things illegal, though ebay have loosened up on things lately.

in the end, buy an american nes and snes and mod them to play everything. there are FAR less (but still a few) issues.

[kattanFAN]

KF, the word you want to Google is 'Famiclone' which is a catch-all term that describes Famicom-compatible devices. This type of hardware need not be licensed since Nintendo's patents on certain technologies ran out. In general, these devices have documented compatibility problems and almost never work with Nintendo peripherals. Real NES and Famicom hardware is cheap and plentiful, and experienced system modders get more mileage out of the real thing.

Did that. Googled it to death. And the reason I ask cuz if it's any good, I might convert it into a portable. And a friend of mine said that he knew a guy with one and had no problems. But I always hear this and that from this site and that site, both saying opposing things.

youll have a tough time finding one

$50 at the nearest Play N Trade.

[phreak97]

if you are looking to make a portable nes, then a clone is the best thing to hack up, simply because they usually run off one ic and a clock circuit and that's about it, the "nes on a chip" which almost all of them run off is an entire nes in about four square centimeters.. for making a nes clone, i recommend the "fc game console" theyre about the smallest clone, and so have the smallest pcb's etc i know of for a nes clone, other than that, there are some clones built into what look like n64 controllers,, i'd assume those are pretty freaking small inside, nad they usually have built in games aswel as cartridge ability (mine does). any pirate snes though will probably be a different story, but who knows, i havnt seen the unit you are speaking of.

for making portables clones are win. but you lose out in a few areas already mentioned. i have an fc game console, and i've found the compatability to be pretty good, though i cant say i've tried a particularly comprehensive list of games on it.. i think maybe the dance aerobics voices were screwed up or something, but youre not likely to play that on a portable:P

[kattanFAN]

if you are looking to make a portable nes, then a clone is the best thing to hack up, simply because they usually run off one ic and a clock circuit and that's about it, the "nes on a chip" which almost all of them run off is an entire nes in about four square centimeters.. for making a nes clone, i recommend the "fc game console" theyre about the smallest clone, and so have the smallest pcb's etc i know of for a nes clone, other than that, there are some clones built into what look like n64 controllers,, i'd assume those are pretty freaking small inside, nad they usually have built in games aswel as cartridge ability (mine does). any pirate snes though will probably be a different story, but who knows, i havnt seen the unit you are speaking of.

for making portables clones are win. but you lose out in a few areas already mentioned. i have an fc game console, and i've found the compatability to be pretty good, though i cant say i've tried a particularly comprehensive list of games on it.. i think maybe the dance aerobics voices were screwed up or something, but youre not likely to play that on a portable:P

I wanna portablize the FC Twin cuz it plays NES and SNES games. Although I found out that it's all done thru multiple motherboards. And I want the FC Twin cuz you can never find a decent-priced NES or SNES, preowned. And all the yard sales in my town, aside from being quite rare, often never have any good game stuff. Although I once found an N64 for about $3 (no games, no controllers) at a thrift store in Kitty Hawk (just north of the new Play N Trade). And several NES games (including Legend of Zelda gold cart and Dragon Warrior) for only a buck at The Hotline in Buxton.

[RobIvy64]

I'd be interested in seeing pics of the insides. Of course, this should not be surprising to most of you .

[Brad]

I bought an FC Twin system (new for $40), and I cannot get it to work.  I do not know if its the super mario world cartridge or the console yet.  I am waiting for another cartridge (Super Metroid) to arrive so I can tell if I got a bad system or a bad cartridge.  

[RobIvy64]

I bought an FC Twin system (new for $40), and I cannot get it to work.  I do not know if its the super mario world cartridge or the console yet.  I am waiting for another cartridge (Super Metroid) to arrive so I can tell if I got a bad system or a bad cartridge.

OPen it up and snap some pics! Please

[miggs]

I just bought an FC Twin console last week to play all my old NES and SNES games (I left my original consoles back at my other home).  Anyways, I've found no problems yet with compatibility, though some older/dirtier NES games get glitchy.

The one thing I'm frustrated with though is the shoddy quality of the controllers.  After only a few days of Super Mario Kart and Street Fighter action, the R buttons on both controllers stopped working.

So, I going to try to replace the controllers with my real SNES controllers (from way back when and which still work perfectly).  

Other than the poor quality of the controllers, the system itself was a great purchase because it was cheaper than buying two separate systems and accessories.

[kattanFAN]

Anyways, I've found no problems yet with compatibility, though some older/dirtier NES games get glitchy.

I usually clean my N64 games with cotton swabs and rubbing alcohol, just like my mom taught me.

[kendrick]

Rubbing alcohol is at best only 70 percent alcohol. The other 30 percent (or more) is usually plain water, which will cause corrosion over time. Best to get pure isopropanol or some other non-aqueous and non-detergent cleaner, like one would use for tape heads. Radio Shack and Fry's sell small bottles of the stuff for a decent price.

-KKC

[spicymami619]

I bought an FC Twin and it doesn't work. I don't know if it is just the game or what. I have tried the game on a real NES system and its perfect. I think I just got my hopes up on something that was to good to be true. A system that plays nes and super nes for 40 bucks. At least I can get my money back.

[kattanFAN]

Rubbing alcohol is at best only 70 percent alcohol. The other 30 percent (or more) is usually plain water, which will cause corrosion over time. Best to get pure isopropanol or some other non-aqueous and non-detergent cleaner, like one would use for tape heads. Radio Shack and Fry's sell small bottles of the stuff for a decent price.

-KKC

So it's a short-term solution?

Also, can it mess them up down the road?

Cuz when I bought this big shoebox full of N64 games from a friend of my dad's, they only worked after being cleaned with rubbing alcohol.

And I'm pretty sure that hydrogen peroxide would be even worse.

[Endymion]

Did you know that Nintendo's own cartridge cleaner which they sold back in the Super Nintendo era gave instructions to use water to clean with? Not arguing either way, just saying.

[kendrick]

Using pharmacy rubbing alcohol to clean cartridges is sort of like using gasoline to get the axle grease off your fender. Sure, it gets the result you want right away. But long-term effects can only be predicted if you know exactly what kind of paint and bodywork you have. In the case of cartridges, the metal used for the contacts makes a big difference. So does the frequency of cleaning and the amount of water present. Why take that chance at all?

Cleaners with water are cheap, plentiful and easy to manufacture. Cleaners without water are necessarily more expensive and less appealing to the public. It's been established pretty clearly that the crowd reading GamesX aren't necessarily worried about expense or practicality when it comes to maintaining older game hardware.

About Nintendo's documentation? They say not to touch Gamecube read head lenses, not to use games from other regions, and not to open up the consoles either. I think we're a ways past the usefulness of the instruction manuals at this point. :)

-KKC

[Epicenter]

I'm pretty sure galvanic corrosion needs electrical current to be flowing while the surface is still wet. If you're wiping dry the material before you try to power it on, and not just letting it sit there wet, I doubt there would significant oxidizing. Leaving your cart edges soaking in solution would be a bad idea, but a quick wipe with 70% alcohol/30% water mixture and then drying quickly should really be harmless.

[Epicenter]

I bought an FC Twin and it doesn't work. I don't know if it is just the game or what. I have tried the game on a real NES system and its perfect. I think I just got my hopes up on something that was to good to be true. A system that plays nes and super nes for 40 bucks. At least I can get my money back.

The NES compatibility is provided care of your usual mediocre-to-crappy Famicom-on-a-Chip. So compatibility isn't spectacular and the audio is going to be jacked up. However SNES support is provided by custom hardware that is likely a lot more compatible. It also helps that most SNES games used PCM audio samples rather than the crappy FM support, which is very much easier to emulate/imitate and should sound much nicer for it.

[kattanFAN]

I'm pretty sure galvanic corrosion needs electrical current to be flowing while the surface is still wet. If you're wiping dry the material before you try to power it on, and not just letting it sit there wet, I doubt there would significant oxidizing. Leaving your cart edges soaking in solution would be a bad idea, but a quick wipe with 70% alcohol/30% water mixture and then drying quickly should really be harmless.

Yeah, the stuff I use is 70% isoprophanyl(sic) and 30% water. And yes, I dry it immediately after.

And yes, we ARE getting off-topic. Cut it out.

[vipor231]

the fc twin which i have cannot run mario 2 nor castlevania 3,mario 2 it gives this crappy looking logo and everything looks like atari 2600 graphics,castlevania 3 cannot run past the screen where the castlevania guy is kneeling down...

[kattanFAN]

Actually, I recently bought one (for about $50 in Play N Trade store credit), and I like it. I do have some slight gripes:

* The controllers SUCK!! Good thing my grandma still has a crapload of old SNES controllers.

* The graphics for SNES games are not perfect. But so far nothing major. I mean, so far I've played Shadowrun (one of my fave games), Animaniacs (another fave game), Mighty Morphin Power Rangers (don't laugh, cuz I like this game), and Zombies Ate My Neighbors. With Shadowrun, the quality is just enough to make capital O's look like weird G's.

* NES carts are harder to remove.

But on the plus side:

* All my NES games (SMB 1-3, TMNT 1-2, Dr. Mario, Legend of Zelda, Dragon Warrior, California Games, Bubble Bobble) and SNES games (Animaniacs, MMPR, Zombies Ate My Neighbors, Shadowrun) work fine, despite a lower quality in the video.

* Despite the 5#!tty controllers, regular SNES controllers (and special ones, too) work

* It weighs less than a model 1 SNES

* Smaller, more ergonomic size and shape


My only real questions are:

* Will Donkey Kong Country 1-3, Super Mario RPG, Mega Man games, Star Fox, Street Fighter games work?

* Do I still have to hold reset with old battery-enabled NES games?

[FM-77]

* Do I still have to hold reset with old battery-enabled NES games?

Not once did I do that on my real NES, and the SRAM never got corrupt.

[kattanFAN]

Also, could I make a NES controller for this? In theory, all I need to do is take a NES controller, replace the NES plug with a SNES one, and it should work. Am I right? Do I need to do anything else?

And another thing. If there is a mod that works with a SNES controller, could I do said mod with one of the cheapy FC Twin controllers? Cuz since I have two of those things, I may as well do something cool with them. Or do their problems lie in the guts of the controller?

Also, after opening up one of those cheapy FC Twin controllers, I've figured out what each color wire goes to:

* Black - DV
* White - Vcc
* dull Purple - Ground
* Red - DO, or is it D0?
* Yellow - PL
* Blue - Clock
Also, there's a diode connected from Vcc to Clock.

[Matarick]

I wonder if there is an Svideo mod compared to the SNES 2.  Just wondering before I am interested in buying the FC Twin for SNES games.  

[FM-77]

Does this thing only output composite? No RGB/multi out like on a real SNES?

If not, has anybody checked out the inside? Anything interesting there?

[kendrick]

This needs to go in a FAQ somewhere... Wire color does not indicate function in most game system peripherals. There is no standard, and so third-party manufacturers don't have to make any color of wire correspond to any signal or to ground. In the worst case, there are just a dozen wires that are all the same color. Electrically, as long as the right wire runs all the way through it doesn't really matter what color you have. To indicate the color of the wire gives you a point of reference only for the thing you're working on right now, at best.

-KKC

[andrew]

i bought the fc twin and i'm having a problem with it.  the snes part doesn't work.  when i try to play a snes game the screen is just blank like it doesn't even recognize it at all.  does anyone know what might be wrong?  

[kattanFAN]

i bought the fc twin and i'm having a problem with it.  the snes part doesn't work.  when i try to play a snes game the screen is just blank like it doesn't even recognize it at all.  does anyone know what might be wrong?

The cartridge, maybe. Make sure it's clean. And make sure that it still works.

Also, does anyone know how to wire a SNES controller plug to a NES controller?

[dobei]

i got a fc twin. i can not get it to save my nes games.

[Endymion]

Ars technica reviewed this, and compared it to other systems.

[Guest_downsouth420]

Using any type of alcohol based solution is safe for a couple of times, but using it over and over can make your contacts deteriorate over time. (Alcohol eats through a lot of things.) Using a degreaser like 409 is a bit safer, especially with NES games which you have to clean over and over to work with the NES 1.

You shouldn't blow on the cartridges as moisture can get on the contacts. But, if you filter the contacts with a cotton tshirt, it seems to make almost any game work that doesn't require extensive cleaning.  

[grahf]

* Will Donkey Kong Country 1-3, Super Mario RPG, Mega Man games, Star Fox, Street Fighter games work?

Here a scan of the FC Twin (with the NES part removed, audio lines not hooked up yet).


The SNES part outputs RGB (at a high voltage, around 4.5v, and uses resistors to ground to bring it down to a reasonable level). It runs through the standard CXA1645 encoder, so SVideo and RGB are easily tapped off of that. The crystal for the 3.58Mhz subcarrier signal comes off of the SNES board as well. You can most likely mod this system to PAL. I have heard some of the first FC Twins used the CXA1145. SNES compatability is near 100% from my tests. Ive tested many carts with special hardware, including:

Tototek flash cart
Far East of Eden Zero
Yoshis Island
Starfox
Starfox II (homemade from Stunt Race FX)
Street Fighter Alpha II
Star Ocean
Kirbys Dream Land 3
Doom
Megaman X3

All of the normal carts worked well for me also. Sound emulation is also spot on from what my ears can tell. Im sure compatibility is not 100%, but I couldnt find anything that didnt work from my tests.

The NES part is just a generic NOAC, so quality is similar to most of those. The video from the NOAC is joined with the output of the CXA1645 via transistors. Audio is joined in the same way. The way this thing works is only one board (SNES or NES) is powered at one time.

If anyone else wants to remove the NES portion for whatever reason, the first 10 lines (as in my pic above) can be ran directly. The audio lines need to be ran through these caps and resistors:

[Guest]

Funny, I tried SFZ2 and it gave me garbage where the graphics should have been, like the custom chip in the game cart wasn't working. Might have just been the cart though. I take it you had no problems with this one Grahf?

I've also noticed it never gives you 60fps on any game. It seems to draw every other frame.

I'm sure the system is implimented in one or more FPGA/CPLDs and night on 100% all there, but something's lacking. Might be because I'm running an NTSC console though PAL with a 120v->230v transformer, but I doubt it.

It's not perfect, but still somehow beats emulators for the feel of using real hardware.

The controllers are not the greatest, but still very usable I think.

-Joel

[phreak97]

Also, does anyone know how to wire a SNES controller plug to a NES controller?

EDIT: i read wrong, i thought you were wiring a nes plug to a snes controller, but i would imagine it works similarly both ways, however the snes controller has an extra encoder, so the nes controller might press multiple buttons at once if you wire it to a snes, i really dont know.. i'm going to leave my reply here anyway because i think it could be useful to someone. also, emulatronia has instructions on connecting other console pads to pc aswel if anyone is interested. the site is in spanish, but i dont know spanish and i've used it for all it's diagrams, it's not hard. hembra is female, and machos(or something) is male. the main page has an icon down the left for connecting console pads to pc. dont use their n64 one, it's a bit dodgy, and theres a better one out there somewhere which supports four controllers.

yeah, get the pinouts of the two from gamesx and use a multimeter to work out what wire in each controller is connected to which pin, then just swap the cables using that information. ignore the wire colour, itll send you in the wrong direction. even with two official nintendo controllers (one nes and one snes) the wire colours are identical, except the swapped two of the colours around  so if you go by wire colour youll mess up and it wont work. very odd move by nintendo, i bet it confused some production line guys.

but yeah, they have pretty much the same pinouts, just on a different connector. and remember you arent using all the pins, so when theres less wires in the nes cable than there are pins, dont worry about it:)

i suggest removing the snes cable from the snes controller and wiring in the nes cable, that way theres no joined cables outside the controller and itll look like it's meant to be that way. alternatively, you could do a Y arrangement, where you cuy off the end of the snes controller with sme slack on the port end, then connect the two cable ends together with the same length, so the controller will work on either.

OR take things one step further, and this one i have done myself: get a male DB25 (parallel port) connector, then wire it with the directpad compatable configuration (diagrams here) then wire the other two connectors into it, so you have three cables going into the db25 casing, two short ones with nintendo connectors (nes and snes) and one long one going to the controller. this way you can also use the controller with  you your pc using the PsxPad drivers Found Here

hope that was helpful:)

[kennz69]

ok since no one will answer this poor kids question even though its an old forum.. but its simple to mod the nes controllers to work on this system. ok if your using the controllers you got with this machine you already noticed they suck to play on snes because they feel so cheap.. so my advice is buy some real snes controllers to use on this and to mod the crappy ones they gave you. So cut the ends off the nes and the snes controller. The nes will have white,brown,orange,red, and yellow. the fc twin controller will have white,brown,yellow,blue, and red. ok yes there is more wires for the snes but you dont need them all for the nes controller mod. so to make this simple
                                                       nes                                snes (fc twin controller bottom)
                                                     white                            white
                                                     brown                            brown
                                                     orange                            yellow
                                                     red                                   blue
                                                      yellow                             red
                                                                                                black (cut the black white off  you dont need it at all for this)
so after connecting these wires i would recommend soldering them and then put some electrical tape around each set and then wrap them all together. this color sequence is for modding the fc twin controller bottom onto a nes controller(there isnt anything better than playing a nes game without all the hassle of trying to get your original nes to work without blinking and/or stalling every 5 minutes.)  so if you cut open an original snes controller the colors are almost exactly the same as a nes controller but some models you might have to switch the yellow and reds. i hope this helps someone out because it was a pain in the ass for me.
                                                             

     

[l_oliveira]

Just mentioning something about the already mentioned compatibility issue, some clones are not reproductions of the original chips but most are.

This implies that clones based on "new chip designs" are more likely to contain flaws than the 1:1 copies of the real thing.
This is more visible on the Super Famicom clones. Most clones won't support half of the video hardware features or have bugs on the sound hardware.
But I happen to own a SFC clone  which passes the tests from the Nintendo diagnosis cartridge.  It's branded "PROSYSTEM-16 Competition" and was sold
in Brazil by a company called "Chips do Brasil".  I suspect it's a re-badged South Korea clone.

Famiclones built from UMC chips: UM6527(CPU clone of Ricoh 2C03 chip) and UM6528 (Clone of Ricoh 2C02 chip) are usually "rock solid" compatibility wise
but the clone chips have a slightly different tone on their sound output.  Most NoaC (NES on a Chip) designs are based on the 1 chip combo from UMC (UM6561)
so they will also sound different from the real Ricoh chip.

My point here is that famiclones based on the UMC chip mostly have compatibility issues due to poor board design and wrong connections.

[heutenitaz]

I've always thought that the SNES marks the pinnacle of game controller design. Not only shape & button placement, but feel & responsiveness. Especially when compared to Genesis controllers--I never understood how anyone put up with those horrible, spongy abominations.
I still have the NES my parents bought my brother and I in 1987, but we couldn't afford an upgrade when SNES came out. We must have played our one game for well over 8 years. Needless to say