cable for Sony rgb- multi to female SCART, need a little clarification

[Rockin' Kat]

I own a Sony KV-25XBR set which has a Sony 34pin rgb multi input on the back. I'm looking to make a cable which will plug into it and provide me with a a female SCART connector on the other end.  After some looking I've concluded that finding someone who can A)make the cable B)does not have a really high minimum quantity and C)test the cable is pretty much impossible so I'm going to have to do this myself....and I tried Redmond cable, they only do commercial installations these days and don't have the parts or a means to test this kind of stuff anymore.

I can make cables. I've made cables in the past(but not for RGB)... I'm just not exactly loaded with confidence in my abilities which Is why I chose this solution... I make one cable and then I can just buy a bunch of RGB SCART cables online.  I can find RGB SCART cables for almost everything I own which outputs RGB, and I've already gotten one for the Genesis(and I made sure it was stated as carrying the RGB lines).

I bought a 12" rounded 34pin floppy cable and a female SCART cable end. I'm going to cut one of the connectors off the cable and solder on the female SCART connector in it's place.

I have a little problem though.  I'm not entirely sure of just what all connections I need(mainly on the SCART end).... but mostly, I'm confused about what "out" and "in" on the SCART pinout refers to... does it refer to "in" as in "into the TV" or "out" as in "out to the TV?

I found the following pinouts/ user manuals:

Sony RGB Multi Input pinout
SCART pinput
Free Operating Instructions in PDF

Here's what I've determined I need to hook up.... I have question marks besides one which I'm not sure if I need to do anything with them.... In general, I'm looking to only use this for Analog RGB.  I don't care about Digital RGB.  I only have one device which outputs it and it's use is very limited(Commodore 128)

Code Select Expand


Need | TV | SCART | Description
-----+----+-------+--------------------
x    |  1 | TV34  | +5v Power supply
     |  2 |       | +5v Power Supply
X    |  3 |   4   | Audio(R)input GND
X    |  4 |  21   | GND
     |  5 |       | Remote Control GND
     |  6 |       | Composite Video Output GND
X    |  7 |   4   | Audio (L) input GND
X    |  8 |  13   | RGB red GND
X    |  9 |   9   | RGB green GND
X    | 10 |   5   | RGB blue GND
X    | 11 |  21   | GND
     | 12 |       | Blanking input Return (GND)
X    | 13 |  18   | H.sync Return (GND)
     | 14 |       | N.C
     | 15 |       | V.sync Return (GND)
X    | 16 |  21   | GND


Code Select Expand


Need | TV | SCART | Description
-----+----+-------+--------------------
     | 17 |       | N.C.
     | 18 |       | N.C.
     | 19 |       | N.C.
X    | 20 |   2   | Audio (R) input
?    | 21 |       | Mode Select
     | 22 |       | N.C.
     | 23 |       | Composite Video Output
X    | 24 |   6   | Audio (L) input
X    | 25 |  15   | Red Input
X    | 26 |  11   | Green Input
X    | 27 |   7   | Blue Input
     | 28 |       | N.C.
     | 29 |       | Blanking Input
X    | 30 |  20   | H.Sync or Composite Sync


Code Select Expand


Need | TV | SCART | Description
-----+----+-------+--------------------
     | 31 |       | V.Sync
     | 32 |       | N/C
?    | 33 |       | RGB/Normal Select
x    | 34 | TV1   | Audio Select


Also... anyone know if this TV can handle running off of systems that put out video at PAL frequencies?  Not something I need now, but it'd be nice to know if it can do it.

[edited for SCART pin20 to Sony pin 30 - 10/6/08 1:48AM PST]
[edited for more connections added 10/7/08 2:14AM PST]
[edited for audio select added 10/14/08 2:56PM PST]

[RGB32E]

You'll also need to connect SCART pin 20 to pin 30 on the XBR.  Due to the funkiness of SCART, the sync signal is transmitted using composite video (composite video contains composite sync), since not all devices with SCART inputs can do anything with the RGB+Sync input, composite video is used as a fall back.  It's hard to say whether or not your TV will strip the sync from composite... but a sync is required to get a suitable picture on the TV. 

The PSX connector does not have enough pins to accomidate a CSYNC output, but other systems do depending upon region.  For example, the NTSC SNES systems (e.g. North America and Japan) output CSYNC on pin 4, where as PAL (rest of the world) output +12VDC on that same pin. 

Hence, if the XBR doesn't obtain the CSYNC signal when connecting SCART pin 20 to pin 30 on the XBR, you'll also need to build a sync stripping ciruit (e.g. build the basic circuit around a LM1881 IC).  But I'd see if the XBR can strip the sync from composite video before bothering with the LM1881.

[Rockin' Kat]

The PSX connector does not have enough pins to accomidate a CSYNC output, but other systems do depending upon region.  For example, the NTSC SNES systems (e.g. North America and Japan) output CSYNC on pin 4, where as PAL (rest of the world) output +12VDC on that same pin.

Does this mean I could have problems using the SNES SCART RGB cable I bought from someone in Sweden on my American SNES?... or is this not a problem if I can get CSYNC off of pin 20 on the SCART... compsite video?

[Leynos]

I have a little problem though.  I'm not entirely sure of just what all connections I need(mainly on the SCART end).... but mostly, I'm confused about what "out" and "in" on the SCART pinout refers to... does it refer to "in" as in "into the TV" or "out" as in "out to the TV?

"In" refers to the behaviour of the socket on the device.

Say you were wiring a SCART cable to connect a DVD player to a TV.  You would wire the "Out"s on the DVD player end to the "In"s on the TV end.

Since you are in effect adding a SCART socket to your TV, you would wire pin 2 (Audio In Right) and 6 (Audio In Left) on the SCART socket to pins 20 and 24 respectively on your TV.

Pin 16 on the SCART socket should maybe go to pin 33 on the TV, but that's just a wild guess.  If your TV has no manual way to select an RGB input, it may need this pin or pin 21 connected up in some way.  Otherwise, it will default to composite input.

Regards,

[RGB32E]

Does this mean I could have problems using the SNES SCART RGB cable I bought from someone in Sweden on my American SNES?... or is this not a problem if I can get CSYNC off of pin 20 on the SCART... compsite video?

No you shouldn't have any problems using the SNES SCART RGB cable from Sweden on your American NTSC SNES.  The only issue I was mentioning is whether or not the XBR can obtain the CSYNC from Composite video. 

If you use a RGB cable intended for a US SNES (using CSYNC output instead of Composite video output) on a PAL SNES, you will damage the monitor.  PAL SNES systems output +12VDC on pin 4 (of the snes mulit-pin connector) instead of CSYNC.

Hence, these are the only "dots" you need to connect!
SCART     TV
5_______10
7_______27
9_______9
11______26
13______8
15______25
18______13
20______30
21______16

[Rockin' Kat]

Ok... cool.. I've got everything except a couple things specific to the TV's connector.. I'll be trying this over the weekend(assuming I get time, I've been really busy lately)... hopefully it defaults to the right things with those pins not connected.

[viletim]

Just one thing I'd add, it's worth making the effort to wire all the ground connections of the female SCART socket together. Many cables connect only one or two ground pins but you'll never know which.

[Rockin' Kat]

Well.. I wired up the cable, checked the connections from 34pin connector to scart connector with it all closed up and it matched with everything I had listed in the first post... I even used my multimeter to make sure none of the pins in the SCART connector were shorting....

I lugged out the Sony TV...which has one problem to my knowlege.... the picture flatlines to a horizontal line due to a intermitent solder joint somewhere.... I just figured I'd try to get this working before I blew any money on getting the TV fixed since I only have it because it has an Analog RGB input..which I've never been able to use...

So after farting around with it to get it to give me a picture off of cable...once it was giving me a clear picture.. I tried to use the RGB input... first thing I noticed was when I switched to RGB on the TV. The sound from the cable was still coming through, and it put a bunch of weird rolling junk on the screen... so I tried turning the SNES(and my SMS) on and it didn't change much..... the sound still came from the coax cable TV input.. and the picture changed slightly... but I didn't get what I was so hoping for.

Now I don't know if this is a problem with the TV or a problem with my cable not connecting something. I have a feeling it may be defaulting to digital RGB.. but I can't find anything on what I would do with the mode pins on the TV's input.

[edit]Aparently I need to switch the TV to one of the three video inputs before I switch on RGB.... and that audio only works if I tie pins 1 and 34 together on the sony's connector... but I'm still not getting a picture[/edit]

[RGB32E]

Sounds like you might need to do the same with pins 21 and/or 33?  Or connect them to ground instead of +5VDC? 

[Rockin' Kat]

I think I need to do something with those pins... but I'm not sure what yet.... the reason I know I need to do what I need to do with pins 1 and 34 is because I found a page someone wrote about using their Amiga with the same Sony TV set.... I emailed them to ask if they had any more information perhaps on those things... it was a rather old document so I'm not holding out any real hope that I'll get a reply.

http://www.inwap.com/inwap/chez/kv25xbr.txt

[RGB32E]

http://www.docs.sony.com/release/KV20XBR.PDF
It's surprising how many manuals sony has archived into PDFs.... but the manual for your TV is available on Sony's site.  Page 15 describes how to view the RGB input, and page 19 shows the 34 pin pinout... though it doesn't give details.  Try t he steps on page 15 and see if that solves it ("Viewing the display of the equipment connected to the RGB Multi input connector")... 

[Rockin' Kat]

Oh, Thanks for the link.... I've already got the manual and a couple service manuals.  I've looked in there, but I'm still not getting anywhere at the moment.

[Hamburglar]

I used to have that TV- I had to wire in a LM1881 sync stripper as it could not take composite sync.  Great TV- good luck.

[Rockin' Kat]

Alright, 

I went to my local electronics shop and got a couple LM1881N chips.... I got an extra because it wasn't much and I might have a use for a second one...

Anyway I found this PDF with a diagram:

http://www.national.com/images/pf/LM1881/00915001.pdf

So I would need to include the resisters and capacitors when I wire it up....  Also.... If I aquire an SCART cable for say, an Apple IIgs or Atari ST, which would be sending a sync signal out rather than composite video... would it have a problem going thorugh this, or should it pass right through alright?

[RGB32E]

So I would need to include the resisters and capacitors when I wire it up....  Also.... If I aquire an SCART cable for say, an Apple IIgs or Atari ST, which would be sending a sync signal out rather than composite video... would it have a problem going thorugh this, or should it pass right through alright?

Yep, all you need is the two 0.1uf caps (non-polarized - not electrolytics) and the 680k resistor.  You shouldn't have any issues connecting composite sync instead of composite video through the cap to pin 2.

[cgm]

So I would need to include the resisters and capacitors when I wire it up....  Also.... If I aquire an SCART cable for say, an Apple IIgs or Atari ST, which would be sending a sync signal out rather than composite video... would it have a problem going thorugh this, or should it pass right through alright?

As others have stated, you shouldn't have any issues. I have tested an Apple IIgs with a sync splitter (I think its a LM1881) built into a Belkin Mac-to-PC video adapter with no problems. Here is a prebuilt SCART IIgs cable if anyone is looking: http://vintageware.orconhosting.net.nz/scart.html

Pinout details are here (the IIgs uses the same pin assignments as the DB-15 Mac video plug): http://vintageware.orconhosting.net.nz/apple2/scart.html