I am confused...RGB vs Component?

[koohiisan]

Okay, I have always loved to mod my stuff, including virtually every game system I have...and now, I have a nice big HDTV to play them on.  So, naturally, I would loooove to mod my SNES and N64 to output component video that I can use on my NTSC HDTV.

I have read articles such as this: http://www.gamesx.com/rgbadd/n64rgb.htm, but I am a little confused by the term 'RGB'.  Yes, I know what it stands for!   But, I see this term being used when talking about SCART connectors.  I don't want to make a SCART connector or enable that output for my system...I just want standard USA NTSC-compatible Component video.

So, my question...before I start tearing apart my consoles...is, will these mods enable me to get component video output that my TV will accept?  Here's what I've found, and what I still need:

NES: http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1592.0
SNES: ?  (original model, apparently already puts it out?)
N64: http://www.gamesx.com/rgbadd/n64rgb.htm

Also, for the SNES and N64, once I have enabled the output of the component signals, do I just hack up a standard Nintendo connector and add some extra wires for the RGB signals?

Thanks in advance for your help!!!   

[NFG]

You're confusing RGB with Component video.  The two are not at all related.  I've written three video tutorials, and here they are in order:

http://nfg.2y.net/meat/2000/1201_videoprimer.shtml

http://nfg.2y.net/meat/2001/1011_videoprimer.shtml

http://nfggames.com/games/ntsc/

They're basically covering the same ground but I wrote them years apart...

[koohiisan]

So...my HDTV has component video inputs...is there any way for me to hack a usable signal to them from my: NES, SNES, or N64?  I'll take on whatever soldering/chip swapping/uber-hacking I have to, if it's possible.

I'm always up for a challenge! 

If I can get those consoles to pump out RGB, then what more do I need to get it to component?  Actually, I once built a RGB -> NTSC/PAL converter box to use with a Jamma supergun-type device, to convert the arcade boards' video output to either PAL or NTSC (I had two crystals and a switch), but I never finished the supergun project...is that what I need here?

[NFG]

Essentially that's exactly what you need: An RGB -> component convertor.  You can either make one or buy one.  It's a topic that's been covered a lot on this forum.

[koohiisan]

Cool, thanks for the info!  Sorry for being a newbie. 

I'll start digging through the forums to see what successes you all have had.  Thanks!

[koohiisan]

Well, there seem to be no shortage of threads for people wanting to convert FROM component TO RGB, but I can't seem to find much going the other way!

I did find this article elsewhere: http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/interfaces/diytranscoder.html .  Although it is focused on RGB coming from a PC VGA port, is the function similar enough to use this design?

Also, I used a chip from Analog Devices in my RGB -> SVideo/Composite converter a long time ago, would a chip such as this one (http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0,,765_798_ADV7393%2C00.html) work for what I am needing?

I hate to shell out a big sum of $ for something I can take pride in doing myself, and I just need a gentle nudge in the right direction.  Thanks in advance!

[koohiisan]

I also saw this, and looking at the slideshow, it seems to show this box doing exactly what I want...has anyone tried this?

http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_102648/article.html

[NeWmAn]

Hello, if I'm not mistaken that circuit was discussed here:
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2026.0
too bad the photos don't show up anymore

I suggest you to read all that thread, in it you can find links to another circuit (http://elm-chan.org/works/yuv2rgb/report.html) which should be a better choice.

[koohiisan]

Okay, thanks 二ユーマン! 

I read the articles and ended up at http://elm-chan.org/works/yuv2rgb/rgb2yuv.png.  This is the only one I could see on the ELM site that was RGB -> Component.  But, now I have another question...it has a part that can be excluded if the RGB is 'DC coupled'...what does that mean?  Will any of my aforementioned systems output that kind of signal, and will there be a problem if I build the circuit exactly as it is?

Thanks!

[sonofx51]

Check out Segasonic's page for a schematic for an RGB to component converter http://www.freewebs.com/vgmods/arcadeworks.htm

[ken_cinder]

You could also try doing what I did, if your HDTV has VGA input.

See if it supports 15khz RGB over the VGA port, might not but you never know.
Mine did, and now I can play my arcade games on it without spending an arm and a leg, or going through the hassle of building anything more than a simple harness.

[koohiisan]

Unfortunately I don't have VGA inputs on the TV...    What about HDMI?  I have that...but I've not examined the pinout for it...does it do RGB?

BTW, thanks sonofx51 for the link...I think I might try that.

[koohiisan]

Oops, not HDMI, I meant DVI.

[Endymion]

Find a VGA->DVI converter. They're cheap if you don't have one, they are commonly shipped with PC video cards and LCD monitors. Plug this up to your HDTV then see if it can see the signal from your PC when connected via VGA cable.

[koohiisan]

I have a DVI out on my Radeon AIW 9600, and have the reverse of what I think you are saying, that takes my DVI output and makes it VGA for my monitor.  But, here at work I think I can find a VGA->DVI I can borrow for a test.

So if I can convert VGA to DVI and feed it properly to my TV, then should I pursue adding RGB outputs on my consoles, and run the RGB into a VGA D-sub connector for use with this VGA->DVI adaptor?

I'm getting excited!   

[koohiisan]

...for that matter...doesn't the GC output digital RGB through the digital video port on back?  If that's the case, can't that be pinned into a DVI connector, as it has pins for digital RGB?  Or is there an incompatibility issue?  Mine has the port, and that would be awesome if all I have to do is interface it to a DVI connector...

Just a side thought...

[blackevilweredragon]

I did this for my systems...

JROK RGB to Component converter..

Works great..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/Evilweredragon/jrokcomponent.jpg

[NFG]

doesn't the GC output digital RGB through the digital video port on back?

No, it outputs digital component, not RGB.

Note that you should generally assume all digital systems are incompatible before you should hope they will work together.  DVI, HDMI, gamecube video, they're all different...  Digital makes it easier to maintain a lossless signal during conversion, but only if you have decode/encode hardware between the incompatible systems. 

So if I can convert VGA to DVI and feed it properly to my TV

It should be pointed out that VGA/DVI adaptors do not do signal conversion.  For the purposes of backward compatibility, many devices that support DVI will also support VGA, and the adaptor is a pinout changer only.  If you stick one of these adaptors on a device that only supports DVI, it won't magically be able to read the VGA.  It has to support both through the same connector.

[blackevilweredragon]

DVI and HDMI are compatible. 

HDMI is essentially DVI with digital sound.  My HDTV has HDMI input, and the cable box is DVI, and all is used is a simple passthrough cable that attaches to the cable boxes digital coax audio out too.

[koohiisan]

Hmm...bummer...if only it were that easy.  Thanks for correcting my hopeful misunderstanding about compatibilites, Lawrence.

And thanks for the reference blackevilweredragon, I've sent an email off to JROK to see about pricing.  His design looks quite similar to the board I did with an AD724 a long time ago, but it was only S-Video/Composite.

I knew that HDMI and DVI were related...but I was hoping it would be easier to hack RGB into my TV using one of them. 

My plan now is that I need to tap into RGB on all my systems, and run those raw RGB outputs into a switch of some kind so that I can make use of just one encoder for all of my equipments.

...now...if only there was an RPB output I could get from my Virtual Boy in similar fashion...     That would rock.

[ken_cinder]

For reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVI

If your TV's DVI input supports DVI-I or DVI-A (I know of nothing using A though) then you can totally use an analog signal with a VGA>DVI adapter. Analog pinouts on DVI are 100% compatible with VGA signals, that's why they are there.
If it only has a DVI-D connector, you're SOL.

Oh and since when is component video digital? I was never aware it was anything but analog, which makes the Gamecube's "Digital" port incorrectly termed.

[blackevilweredragon]

For reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVI

If your TV's DVI input supports DVI-I or DVI-A (I know of nothing using A though) then you can totally use an analog signal with a VGA>DVI adapter. Analog pinouts on DVI are 100% compatible with VGA signals, that's why they are there.
If it only has a DVI-D connector, you're SOL.

Oh and since when is component video digital? I was never aware it was anything but analog, which makes the Gamecube's "Digital" port incorrectly termed.

Y/Pr/Pb:  Analog Component Video

Y/Cr/Cb:  Digital Component Video, used to store video on DVD's.  BUT!  DVD players output the analog version.  Component video in it's native digital Cr Cb form is one wire, it's a serial data stream from what I gather.

But, Nintendo could very well make their own digital standard for Component.  As long as it's Y and difference of red and difference of blue, it's Component Video.