Genesis 1 RGB to component problem

[GUTS]

I bought one of those Jrok RGB to component converters, but I'm having trouble with it and I'm hoping there's something simple I'm missing.  I followed the pinout guide here to get the RGB, sync, and ground out of the Genesis and hook it all up correctly, but I get no picture.  When I remove the sync line I do get a picture, but it's all over the place.  Is there something easy I'm missing here?  I figured I'd start with the Genesis since it seemed really straight forward and easy, but this is driving me crazy.  For reference I'm using a Hitachi HDTV which from what I was told shouldn't make a difference other than it not looking as nice as on a SDTV.

[NeWmAn]

What pin have you used as sync from the Genesis?
The Composite sync or the Composite video one?

[GUTS]

I tried both actually, composite video does nothing while composite sync just makes the screen go completely black.

Actually it doesn't go completely black immediately, I can see it for a second before it fades out.  If I power off and on it does this too, but I can still see that the image is jumping all over the place right before it cuts out.

[Drewman21]

Did you add the restistors and caps into place before it gets to the Jrok board? I have been following Eviltim/viletim's diagrams here and have had good luck with many of the systems listed.  I would follow his layouts as they have worked for me.  I haven't had a chance to do my Genesis 1 RGB cable yet but I did give the Genesis 3 rgb a try and it worked for me. I hope that helps you out and let us know what happens!

[GUTS]

Jeez sorry guys, turns out I'm fucking retarded, the colors on the wires were wrong on the transcoder diagram (black was listed for sync and orange for ground when it was really the other way around like it should be) and I didn't notice until I was examining the underside of the board.  I swapped the wires and everything works great, sorry to clutter the forum with a dumbass mistake!

Drewman thanks for the link though, I'm going to do my other Sega systems next so that will come in handy.  I googled for about an hour solid today and didn't see that anywhere!

[Drewman21]

Ah dude no worries. When you get into system modding you have to goof it at least one or twice. Hehe.   But keep it up and post some pics when you get your wireing all done man. Good luck!

[GUTS]

Finally got it all wired up and holy shit does it look great, the colors are amazing.  I was told by multiple people that RGB wouldn't look very good on an HDTV, but I think it looks awesome.  Just for comparison I booted up NeoGenesis on Xbox and for some reason that looks way worse (I have my xbox hooked up through component too so I thought they would look identical).  Can't wait to get my Duo modded for RGB also.

Oh and thanks to Lawrence for the custom DIN connector idea, that worked out great since I had some old cat5 cables lying around and was able to make a couple custom cables.

[mr. newbie]

how much was the converter?

[Drewman21]

The Jrok 4.1 board is what you are looking for. I got mine for $70 off a first release bulk buy from the neo-geo.com forums.  I think it is $80-90 now?  If you get it be sure to also pick up Jrok's sync seperator.  It works better than the LM1881n one from what i can tell with some arcade boards and my AES Neo-Geo home system.  You can get one from here. Good luck!

[GUTS]

Yeah like Drew said $65 plus shipping for one that only does component out, or $85 plus shipping for one that does S-video, component, and regular composite out.  I wish I would have ordered the sync seperator also just incase I need it, but oh well.

Also so you know, it seems like any Sega system works flawlessly and easily with it.  Genesis/Sega CD/Master System and Saturn look absolutely amazing now.  The only systems i'm having trouble with are my Turbo Duo (the colors are washed out, I need to build the RGB amp) and SNES (for some reason I can't get it to sync).  It was WELL worth the $70 I spent, I've been playing non-stop Genesis for the last week.

[blackevilweredragon]

im gonna save up for one of those..  I could without a doubt, use it..

Does the 5v line out of the AV connector support it?  or does it need a separate DC adapter?

[blackevilweredragon]

where's a link to the component only one?  i can't find it on this page..

http://www.gatorcade.com/rgbconverter.html

i don't need composite, and i don't need S-Video..  Component is where it's at for me..

[Drewman21]

Yo Guts, the SNES is the first thing that i got working with the Jrok.  I got a RGB cable off play-asia and it was wired up for composite video for the sync.  So I had to use a sync stripper to get sync to the Jrok.  Worked like a dream after that. Got some Crono Trigger going and it looked awsome.  Give it a shot man!

[ken_cinder]

NeoGenesis on your Xbox looks WORSE than the real system on an HDTV? Somehow I find that hard to believe, when I hooked up my PS1 to my HDTV, it looked like ASS.
I don't understand how people can not think that filtering doesn't look better either. Simulated scanlines look disgusting, and nothing like true scanlines. I prefer a nicely filtered image, with something like Super 2xSai.

Oh well, to each his own, I just don't get it. Emulated with some snazzy filters and scaling look so pretty.

[GUTS]

Black, here's the component only one- http://jrok.com/hardware/RGBv4/index.html
When you email him he'll give you his prices on it.

Drew- Awesome, I'll try that, I figured it was a problem with the c-sync.

IJTF- Yeah neogenesis looks bad on my TV for some reason, I don't like it, the colors are all slightly off compared to the real thing.  The actual Genesis looks great though, I should post some pics.  ZSNES looks great, but I don't like filters since they don't look authentic.  I'd rather play the real hardware, it's more fun to me than having a folder with 1000 games in it and fancy filters/save states since I appreciate the games more.

Oh and I play Playstation games through my PS2 so they look great on my TV.

[blackevilweredragon]

yea, i got that far, and i had emailed him, but no response back yet..  how long did you have to wait?

oh, btw, did you try a 32X with this thing?  that's my big worry...  my 32X has flickering NTSC colors, so it's in need of some Component video..

[GUTS]

He was pretty quick for me, a day or so later he emailed me and then he mailed the encoder out about 2 days after I paid.  I haven't tried a 32x yet, doesn't the 32x output from it's own AV port instead of the Genesis?  I haven't tried modding that yet, I didn't know if you could tap RGB from a 32x.

[blackevilweredragon]

He was pretty quick for me, a day or so later he emailed me and then he mailed the encoder out about 2 days after I paid.  I haven't tried a 32x yet, doesn't the 32x output from it's own AV port instead of the Genesis?  I haven't tried modding that yet, I didn't know if you could tap RGB from a 32x.

The 32X takes the RGB signals from the Genesis, then overlays it's graphics onto of it..  Thing is, there's a slight signal modification, and I wonder if that'll cause problems..

[blackevilweredragon]

well, more days have passed for me, and no reply..  i've always wanted to get this thing, now i have that chance, but he isn't replying...

[GUTS]

That's weird, the last time I emailed him though was about 3 months ago.  When I ordered a few weeks ago I still had the mail saved so I just paypaled the money to his account and a couple days later I got a confirmation number.  I can forward you the email if you want so you can pay the man.

[blackevilweredragon]

That's weird, the last time I emailed him though was about 3 months ago.  When I ordered a few weeks ago I still had the mail saved so I just paypaled the money to his account and a couple days later I got a confirmation number.  I can forward you the email if you want so you can pay the man.

i'd rather him reply back first, that way i know he's there at the moment (incase something came up)..  thanks for the offer though..

[blackevilweredragon]

I sent another email to him..  Since I noticed he uses Road Runner, I used my Road Runner account too..  (by his email address .rr.com)

I previously sent an email to him from Gmail, and he might have that blocked..

EDIT:  Yep, Gmail seems to have been blocked.  I got in contact with him and the order has been made..

[blackevilweredragon]

Jeez sorry guys, turns out I'm fucking retarded, the colors on the wires were wrong on the transcoder diagram (black was listed for sync and orange for ground when it was really the other way around like it should be) and I didn't notice until I was examining the underside of the board.  I swapped the wires and everything works great, sorry to clutter the forum with a dumbass mistake!

Drewman thanks for the link though, I'm going to do my other Sega systems next so that will come in handy.  I googled for about an hour solid today and didn't see that anywhere!

heh, got my JROK today, and at first I didn't know what you meant, until I had the same problem XD  the TV just kept saying "COMPONENT 1 - DETECTING", but never locked on..  then finally i looked under the circuit, and noticed GND and SYNC were backwards, so I fixed that, just like you did, and finally I got it up and running...

Here, here's pictures for other people wondering how this thing works.  I didn't use any caps or resistors on mine..

The Adapter:
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/jrokcomponent.jpg

Composite Video (Before):
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/composite.jpg

Component Video (After):
http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/component.jpg

The shadow behind the tree in the COMPONENT shot is my camera acting funny, but on the Composite shot, it IS actually there..

[GUTS]

Haha yeah that was annoying, I spent a good 3 or 4 hours playing with the thing before realizing they were backwards.

[blackevilweredragon]

GUTS, you'll probably want this, since you have the JROK.

I calibrated the R, G, B, levels to look PERFECT.  Since my HDTV was professionally calibrated, this would be easy, and I'd know where the POTs on the JROK should go.

http://blackevilweredragon.spymac.com/genyprpbjrok.jpg

Put yours like that, and you'll get amazing results.  For me, the default position was dark and washed out (the pics I did before when I first got it, were right after I tinkered with the POTs)

[GUTS]

Awesome dude, thanks, I'll try that tonight!

[GUTS]

I fiddle with my jrok knobs last night and set them like you showed, looks great!  I played and beat Ranger X again, I can't get over how awesome it looks.

[nyder]

The Jrok 4.1 board is what you are looking for. I got mine for $70 off a first release bulk buy from the neo-geo.com forums.  I think it is $80-90 now?  If you get it be sure to also pick up Jrok's sync seperator.  It works better than the LM1881n one from what i can tell with some arcade boards and my AES Neo-Geo home system.  You can get one from here. Good luck!

They don't make the TM1881 anymore, intersil replaced it.

[Drewman21]

They don't make the TM1881 anymore, intersil replaced it.

Dude I said the LM1881n not a TM1881.  You can find them all over the place.  Just type it in Google products and a bunch pop up. Even if you are talking about the LM1881n being out of production from intersil it seems there are more manufactures making it still. I bought a handfull from someone off ebay who had a few hundred posted. If your looking for one and can't find one I would check there.

[nyder]

They don't make the TM1881 anymore, intersil replaced it.

Dude I said the LM1881n not a TM1881.  You can find them all over the place.  Just type it in Google products and a bunch pop up. Even if you are talking about the LM1881n being out of production from intersil it seems there are more manufactures making it still. I bought a handfull from someone off ebay who had a few hundred posted. If your looking for one and can't find one I would check there.

Oh, sorry, I'm dyslexic.

I thought that was the chip I was thinking of, but I guess it wasn't.
Intersil's chip is the EL1881, and I think they had sent me a new chip they had just made instead.

Guess I should of checked what I was typing before I posted.

I got samples of it from Intersil and apparently National will send samples of the TM1881, though I haven't tried to order from them yet.

I'm in the process of setting up my electronics work area up, so i'm going to play with them soon.

But Intersil does have a better chip for going straight to Componet, and I was about to order some samples of it, I just don't have a Componet cable TV, or input source, so I haven't been in a big hurry.

Let me look for the part number...

okay, here it is:     ISL51002

I was hoping they were going to be releasing a eval board for it so I could test how it handles the sync, but so far they haven't.

The chip & eval board I order from them instead of the EL1881 was the ISL59885 because I wanted to test what sort of non standard signals it could handle and if it would be good for not only consoles but older computers.

Okay, is that better?  This time I actually looked up the info I was saying so my dyslexia didn't bitch slap me with stupid, though that probably  happened anyways.  =)