Jap 21-pin RGB to Euro 21-pin SCART

[mezrabad]

Okay, I'm the proud new owner of a Sony PVM 2530 with all the normal I/O plus a Very Special BNC RGB mod. (four BNC ins - R, G, B + Sync? Luminance?)

Ever the impulse buyer, as soon as I got this heavy cube of a tube, I went right to Lik-Sang and ordered some "RGB" cables. (Playstation, Saturn, Dreamcast and Nintendo) (plus a Dreamcast S-Video, just for the hell of it.)

Firstly, the S-Video on this thing is pretty sweet, so if I can't figure out the RGB thing, I'm still happy with it. But, I didn't get it for S-Video.

So anyway, I order the cables from Lik-Sang. I then find a five female, one male SCART splitter box and a SCART to BNC converter cable (both ebay). I figure I'll plug my Lik-Sang stuff in the SCART splitter box with the SCART to BNC converter. RGB will go in from a console in through the splitter and magically be converted by the SCART to RGB BNC converter and I'll be playing in RGB Bliss.

Today I get all the pieces together hook them up and I get inconsistent garbage from the Playstation cable, nothing from the Dreamcast cable and nothing from the SNES (not a shock, probably need a mod). I didn't bother trying the Saturn because I was afraid I'd cry or something.

I did find out that Dreamcast needs an internal adjustment. Okay, fine. But what about the Playstation? I mean I was able to see stuff, what was there did look GREAT, but it was halfway down the screen, pushed over to the right and was horizontally irregular.

I found out that since I got the RGB cables from Lik-Sang and the SCART to BNC from the UK, I probably have a Jap to Euro incompatibility with the pin-outs.

I'm looking at the pin outs and realize I might be able to hack the splitter box and change it into a converter box by cutting the leads to the last female SCART connection and soldering wires from pin to pin. Here would be the pins:

Jap                                 to             Euro

Right Audio               01   -    02    Audio In Right
L/R Audio Shield        03   -    04    Audio Ground
Left Audio                 05   -    06    Audio In Left
Sync Shield              07    -    18    Blank Signal Ground
Sync                        09    -    16    Blanking Signal
Red Shield                13   -     13    RGB Red Ground
Red                          15   -     15    RGB Red In / Chrominance
+5v                          16   -     ?
Green Shield             17   -     09    RGB Green Ground
Blue Shield                18   -     05    RGB Blue Ground
Green                       19   -     11    RGB Green In
Blue                          20   -     07    RGB Blue In
Ground                      21   -     21    Ground/Shield (Chasis)

I'm making some assumptions here. I'm assuming that Sync and Blanking belong together. I'm also assuming that if I hook up everything OK, then the SCART to BNC converter will just take over and do its work with the signal. Supposedly, it's an RGB BNC input so it theoretically should be expecting anything the Jap RGB can throw at it, right?

I have no clue about where to put the +5v pin, so I humbly ask the knowledgeable people of this forum.

Could anyone tell me if I'm on the right track?

Thanks.

[NFG]

Your questions have been answered on the wiki:

http://nfg.2y.net/wiki/doku.php?id=scart2rgb

[mezrabad]

Ack, a Wiki.

Thanks, and here I thought I'd already done my homework.  :unsure:

Hmm, okay. I've read the entry. Not sure about that +5v to Blanking, guess I'll try it with a 100Ohm resistor as he suggests. I don't know enough about electronics to wonder too long about it.

[Aidan]

The SCART blanking line is just there to inform the display device that this input should be the active input. Basically, it allows a device like a DVD player to automatically switch the TV from TV mode to AV mode. This has NOTHING to do with sync at all!

Converting from SCART to BNC connectors should only require R,G and B and the Sync signal (and obviously ground) - as long as the console produces RGB of course! I suspect that all the SCART to BNC converter actually does is connect the R,G and B lines to their BNC cousins, and connect the composite video to the sync line.

Issues you can see with BNC input tend to fall into one of three categories:

1) Wrong colours - usually caused by the RGB lines not being connected to the correct RGB line at the other end.
2) Unstable picture - usually caused by an issue with the sync line. Can also be caused by bad grounding.
3) No picture - Did you remember to connect the cable and turn things on?

[Endymion]

Okay, I'm the proud new owner of a Sony PVM 2530 with all the normal I/O plus a Very Special BNC RGB mod. (four BNC ins - R, G, B + Sync? Luminance?)

I have a PVM 2530. It does not have BNC, at least not for RGB, what's there is composite and audio on a couple of different inputs and outputs. Who put the BNC in? I'd think that would be the person to ask. Otherwise you probably want to use the DB25. It would be a hell of a lot easier to use.

You do not need the 5V for anything. That's only for SCART TV considerations. TVs like that operate normally, and wait for certain signals involving the voltage and "blanking" in order to switch. Since you aren't using a SCART TV you have no use for the voltage. You can put the volt line to other uses like removing sync from video, but the PVM series of monitors can deal with any video or sync that you feed it so this does not matter. Just wire up any video pin from your cable or converter to the PVM's sync line and it will work. Do you have the pinout for the DB25?

Edit--I should also mention that the PVM can sync on green, so if the sync is on the green line you can just leave it there. I am pretty sure the Playstation and PS2 have sync on green for instance. You should actually only need 3 BNCs for RGB, if you really want to use BNC.

[Paper]

Actually pin 16 (called "blanking" in the SCART pinout) forces the tv to use RGB whereas pin 8 (called "switch") is used to autoswitch the tv to av/16:9 or av/4:3 depending on voltage.

I thought I'd repeat this as I see the word "blanking" being used in connection with autoswitching.

[Endymion]

Either way, he doesn't need it. SCART cable he may be using, but SCART TV is not the destination so he need not worry about it.

[mezrabad]

Okay, I just finished the job exactly like it was suggested in the link laurence gave me and it doesnt work, probably because I'm only using a SCART cable and not a SCART TV.



Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. As a first-time soldering job it looks like crap but I multimetered all the connections and they work!

I press onwards!

[Endymion]

It shouldn't matter that you aren't using a SCART TV, so long as you actually wire the stuff to your monitor properly. Why don't you try the DB25? And where did the BNC jacks come from really?

[Aidan]

I thought I'd repeat this as I see the word "blanking" being used in connection with autoswitching.

That's what you get for posting without checking your facts! Apologies - it was done from memory.

[mezrabad]

It shouldn't matter that you aren't using a SCART TV, so long as you actually wire the stuff to your monitor properly. Why don't you try the DB25? And where did the BNC jacks come from really?

The BNC jack mod is on the back. But I have no idea if it actually works or not, I'm begining to think "not" and that I should use the DB25.

What if the PlayStation RGB cables from Lik-Sang are wired for European SCART and it passed straight through the splitter box and into the SCART to RGB BNC convertor, should everything look find regardless of the fact I'm using a non SCART destination?

Anyway, thanks for your help. I'll give the DB25 input a shot, but I'm not longer sure what exactly my Lik-Sang cable is giving me. If it's wired for SCART but going into a US PS1 will the pin-outs be the same? *sigh* Obviously, I need to do more homework.

[Midori]

The cable you have bought at Lik-sang is probably a european scart cable. All scart cables I`ve ordered from there was european ones(I live in europe so I do know that this is true, otherwise I wouldn`t be able to use them here)

[Paper]

should everything look find regardless of the fact I'm using a non SCART destination?

It should be clear to you that a plug is nothing but a certain standard shape and collection of outputs. Please do not think it matters that you are not using a device without a SCART input.

The SCART pinout found here is followed by the makers of the SCART cables. In other words: all outputs from different consoles, no matter the shape of the plug on the console end, will end up the same way in the SCART end (i.e. red goes to pin 15, green to pin 11, &c).

If you don't trust the converter make your own cable from scratch following the information already posted.

Today I get all the pieces together hook them up and I get inconsistent garbage from the Playstation cable, nothing from the Dreamcast cable and nothing from the SNES (not a shock, probably need a mod). I didn't bother trying the Saturn because I was afraid I'd cry or something.

I did find out that Dreamcast needs an internal adjustment. Okay, fine. But what about the Playstation? I mean I was able to see stuff, what was there did look GREAT, but it was halfway down the screen, pushed over to the right and was horizontally irregular.

The possibly faulty BNCs may be the cause of that. You really need to try all your options (i.e. different inputs) to be sure what is happening.

[Vertigo]

Get a PC BNC output cable that you know works and plug your PC into the BNCs. Should be the quickest and easiest way to test if they work.

[Endymion]

Except that the PVM 2530 doesn't support PC resolutions.

[Vertigo]

Well just make a SCART to DB25 adaptor then, parts for less than a fiver, and plug them in that way.

[Guest]

You could also force your PC to output at 15khz through various methods (powerstrip, advmame, linux with custom modelines etc).I won't recommend that you put 31khz into it, but that being said I do it all the time and haven't had any issues with any of the monitors or TV's that I have tried.The monitor either rejects it or you just get an out of sync picture.You could even just plug the colour wires in if you are afraid of the sync, you might get a reaction out of it, that is depending on the fact that the PVM won't blank the signal because of the lack of sync.

[mezrabad]

The cable you have bought at Lik-sang is probably a european scart cable. All scart cables I`ve ordered from there was european ones(I live in europe so I do know that this is true, otherwise I wouldn`t be able to use them here)

Okay, thanks for confirming that! (BTW Midori is one of my favorite Manga/Anime Characters.)

It should be clear to you that a plug is nothing but a certain standard shape and collection of outputs. Please do not think it matters that you are not using a device without a SCART input.

I do know that on a certain level, but I must keep reminding myself of it. I keep wanting to think that cables "do something" to the signal when they're actually only conduits.

Thanks for the point about trying all my input options. I'm going to try that this weekend. I've got a female DB 25 adaptor waiting to be adapted (resistence is futile!).

I've got the pinouts for the Sony PVM 2530's male DB 25 input, and I've got the pinout for a SCART cable. We'll see what happens.

[mezrabad]

Okay, after enjoying s-video for longer than I had planned, my RGB longings are stirring again. This time I've chosen (as many of you suggested) to ignore the BNC inputs and focus on the DB25 input.

I'm planning on making a convertor cable with a female SCART connector on one end (to fit into the male SCART output from the consoles) and a female DB25 on the other end (to fit into the male DB25 in put on the back of the monitor).

I have the pinout for the PVM-2530 DB25 input. Pins 4, 5 and 6 are Blue, Green and Red input, respectively.

So, based on the earlier link to the SCART pinout, here, I'm going to connect them like this:

SCART to the DB25
  7       Blue       4
  11     Green     5
  13     Red        6

The monitor handles "sync on green" so I'm assuming that the SCART formation out from the consoles it was made for is going to have that sync in the green. Is it that simple or am I missing a big part of the picture?

Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm missing out on the whole "ground" concept. Do I need to be connecting all the grounds from one cable to all the grounds on the other cable?

I know this isn't electronics for dummies, but I'm used to the concept of one ground and I employed it when I wired the control panel on my MAME cabinet. All the various grounds listed in the SCART pinout confuse me because the Sony PVM pinout lists pins 15-24 as ground, but the SCART pinout lists different grounds for Red, Blue, Green, Data, Composite Video, etc. Should I connect the Red Green and Blue grounds on the SCART to just any of the pins 15-24 listed as Ground on the monitor? Am I done after that?

Thanks for your patience and thanks in advance for any dire warnings of impending doom.

[Endymion]

This is easy stuff, you'll get it licked in no time.

You can use sync on green. You don't need to use sync on green. What's important here is that if you have a pesky console, like the PS2 or PS1? They output sync on green. You cannot so easily prevent them from outputting sync on green, so they typically require a circuit to remove the sync from green. Since that monitor can accept sync on green, you don't need to do this. Voila! For other consoles, just use the exclusive sync pin on the DB25. I forget which one this is but you should be able to find it easily in a google for any PVM series monitor with this socket.

As for ground, you've got a whole gaggle of several different pins on the DB25 that are all ground. You can use any of them. It doesn't matter which one you choose. I haven't opened up mine but they very likely are common inside, so you can just take the one that suits your work. If you are going to be wiring up a Japanese RGB to SCART converter as was discussed earlier, Japanese RGB really wants to have all of its grounds connected. But, on your monitor side, that still won't matter, so you can tie all of the Japanese RGB ground pins to the same single pin that you use on the monitor end. To the best of my memory I did not even bother with the various rgb-grounds when I modified mine, but you may have the odd console that complains about it if they are not all together. I doubt you'll have a problem here but I do know the Japanese RGB does not like it when they are all not connected. Good luck.

[mezrabad]

This is easy stuff, you'll get it licked in no time.

Thanks for your encouragement!

Inspired, I broke out my soldering iron and soldiered onwards creating a really ugly "cable" between the female SCART socket I'd ripped from a five way SCART splitter and a female DB25. The soldering went well.

I hooked up, what we concluded should be a European SCART cable (having purchased it from Lik-Sang) to my hideous creation and ran that into the back of the monitor.

I saw the same screen junk that I had seen with the SCART to BNC adaptor!  :lol:

Actually, I tested both my Playstation and my Saturn. The Playstation showed nothing for the opening screen, but on the PS logo screen it showed it half on one edge and half on the other edge. It faded out and faded in a few seconds later onto the opening Spyro screen, it looked good for a split second, maybe even a whole second, went a little zig-zaggy and faded out again, never to return.

The Saturn acted a little differently. It consistently showed garbage up to the "load disk" screen where it sat.

So, two different machines, producing a similar, but different, mess.

I connected red to red, blue to blue, green to green and I grounded their corresponding grounds along with the main ground/shield/chassis of the SCART socket. Am I missing something there? A sync somewhere? Chrominance? Cromulence?

One assumption I made about the SCART cable for the Playstation: I thought it would handle whatever function that LM1881 chip does. Maybe it doesn't and I'll need to get me one of those.

The Saturn not working leads me to believe I've either got a broken TV (Maybe the person who put in the BNC connector MOD screwed up somehow) OR I'm missing something stupid and need to do more reading 'round these parts.

I've been assuming that the SCART cables I got from Lik-Sang just "work" in a standard way with all of my US consoles and that the pin-outs given for a EU SCART connector may all be applied. Is that an assumtion I shouldn't be making? Maybe I should be going to the US pinouts for each of my machines and working from there.

Thanks for tolerating my ramblings.

[ido8bit]

The video connectors are the same on most consoles regardless of whether it is a US, EU or JP console.  There are some exceptions (eg, SNES), but I have used the same SCART RGB cables with US and EU Playstations, EU and JP Saturns, EU and JP Dreacasts, etc.  These SCART cables were bought from Lik-sang and have worked fine for me with both my Sony PVM and XRGB2 (modified).

I think there is something wrong with your PVM.  Are you sure those BNC connectors are an RGB input?  I find it strange that they would label an RGB input with anything other than RGB.  Where do they go inside the monitor?  If those BNCs are routed to the same input as the 25 pin connector that could explain why you are getting the same results with both cables.  

Posting a pic of the "garbage" you are getting could make it easier to narrow things down.  

 

[Endymion]

There is a switch somewhere on the back of the 2530, I think it is just over the DB25. (If not over it, somewhere very near it.) Have you tried switching it to the other position? I think this changes the mode somehow, I remember the first time I used an RGB cable with mine it was somewhat funky til I hit that switch at which point things cleared up--I can't for the life of me remember what this switch was for, I'm not even sure if it were labeled.

I'll take a look when I get home.

[mezrabad]

Woohoo! YAY my Saturn is now viewable in RGB!!!

Okay, I got the Saturn working in RGB! It really looks great!

The only thing I was missing was a connection from the Saturn sync (pin 16 on my Lik-Sang SCART connector  to pin 3 of the DB25 on the PVM (Horizontal Sync).

The little switch over the DB25 is strange, Endymion, I think it has something to do with Sync on green. In one setting, it works with the Saturn but produces nothing from the Playstation and in the other setting it get garbage from the Playstation but nothing from the Saturn.

So, I've got the Saturn console working in RGB with my poorly soldered (but functional) creation. Now I need to get it to work with my Genesis, Sega CD, Dreamcast, PS1, PS2, TurboGrafix-16, SNES and N64, but not necessarily in that order.



Thanks for all your help guys, especially the whole "it can be done!" positive-ness.

Despite the title that doesn't describe anything to do with my problem anymore, I'll post updates or pathetic cries for help in here periodically.

[Endymion]

That's good news, glad you solved it. What was the problem before? Did you have it tethered elsewhere? Was there a short somewhere? H-sync in my experience usually can carry the composite sync unless there is a separate pin dedicated to it.

[mezrabad]

That's good news, glad you solved it. What was the problem before? Did you have it tethered elsewhere? Was there a short somewhere? H-sync in my experience usually can carry the composite sync unless there is a separate pin dedicated to it.

The problem was I didn't know where the sync was coming from on the SCART connector. Pin 16 was labeled "blanking" in the diagram for the SCART pinout. I went back and looked at the pinout for the Saturn and used a multimeter to find out where the sync pin on the saturn connector came out on the SCART connector and hooked that up to the H-sync (pin 3) on the DB25 and that worked.

I just got done grounding pin 2 on the db25 and sending out the left and right audio to the VTR audio input, so now my Saturn can also be heard as well as seen in RGB.

Now where the heck do I buy a LM1881 chip? The guys at Radio Shack had no idea what I was talking about. Maybe I'll try Fry's.

[Endymion]

Go to National Semiconductor. Request samples of their LM1881 product. They will send you five, free of charge, perhaps a couple of dollars will be spent by you for shipping.