Component and S-Video on PSOne Screen

[Segasonicfan]

For those of you that don't know, the PSOne LCD Screen  (also the same as the Zenith 5" LCD) is the top choice LCD for modders right now.  This is due to its full 100% RGB output and inputs.  However, this screen is capable of much more..

Looking over this  datasheet I saw that the screen can be configured to accept both S-Video and Component inputs.  Doing this mod would be a huge help to many modders out there using this screen.  I personally want to do this mod so I can connect my PSTwo using Component lines to watch hi quality DVD (since there's anti-RGB Macrovision and such).  The S-Video mod would be extremely helpful to anyone using an N64 b/c it lacks all other outputs.

The problem I'm facing is how to tell the circuit what mode to be in.  The R-Y and B-Y and luma/chroma inputs are all there and easily attatched, I just can't get the chip to recognize them.  I'm hoping someone here with logic circuit knowhow will be able to figure out which pin/input is the detect line.  My knowledge of digital stuff is terrible =/

Please help and thank you in advance!

[Aidan]

Yes, it can handle component input. However, there's no dediated pin to set the mode, instead it's programmed across a serial bus at power up. Therefore, you'd need to reconfigure/reprogram whatever chip is controlling the setup.

[Segasonicfan]

hrmm...I thought it might be something like that (digitally controlled).  Thing is, I don't even know what the serial bus would look like... =/  I have managed to obtain datasheets on nearly every curcuit on the board though.  Maybe you could tell me which is the serial bus or what it would look like?  Here's what I found schems for:

MC74VHC4066 CMOS Multiplexer
ICS673-01 (Phased Locked Loop)  (I think this may be it)

MC74VHC406674VHC393
4-bit Binary Counter

I can also take a pic of the board if you think that would help to find it.

Thanks for your help.

-Segasonicfan

[Hojo_Norem]

I have been working on the same thing.  I have got to the same point, I seem to be allmost getting s-video, but the output from my c64 has colour bleed on some images but the s-video output from my pc dosen't look too bad.  I coulden't realy tell if there was any bleed over.

As for the ICs, its the LTS5QTB which is responsible for controlling the AN2526NFH via the IC2 bus.  It is also responsible for generating the volume and brightnes OSD sliders and it is supposedly fed by a 2402W IC2 serial EEPROM.

I have not found a datasheet for the LTS, but from what I have seen in the internet here the chip had hidden menus, but the author of the document dosen't know how to makethem appear 'normally'.  Sadly he has yet to return my email on this matter.

On the PCB for my LCD there seem to be access points for the IC2 bus next to the EEPROM, suggesting that it could be in system programmed.  The site which hosts the text file mentioned above also seems to have a binary image if the EEPROM's contents.  Viewing the file in a hex editor shows that little of the small EEPROM is used.  I cant see it being too big a task editing the image byte by byte until we get the desired result.  Anybody know of a DIY IC2 programmer? :rolleyes:

Heres a screenshot of the hex editor with the EEPROM image loaded:



PS.  When I get a hold of a digi camera Il take a few snaps of what I have done so far to my LCD.

[Segasonicfan]

It's great to know somebody else (with more knowledge) is working on this! =)  I found the same text link for the LTS and (like everyone else) can't find a full datasheet for it.  Maybe I should try contacting Samsung?  I didn't realize that chip was also the serial bus.  I did figure out an S-Video mod (probably similar to yours) that you can see  here but I'm pretty sure the chip is just combining the luma and chroma inputs internally because the video is still a composite picture.  I'm sure the Y/C lines aren't mixed before they reach the circuit though, because they have different voltages and removing the chroma line takes out the color (as it should).  But it's not S-video because the serial bus isn't telling it to be in that mode... =/

It looks like you're getting a lot further than me though, my knowledge ends at analogue.  

-Segasonicfan

[Hojo_Norem]

Thats about the limit of my knowledge also.  I have noticed while Im sure the IC2 signal must be composite, hacking in Y/C seems to improve the picture slightly.  Perhaps  the way the chip is mixing the Y/C is better than standard composite?  The benchmark for testing this for me is Snare (the Thalamus version) on the C64.  The are a lot of GFX on the intro info screen which can show up colour cross talk found in composite.  It dosen't seem to be as pronounced when using the Y/C mod.

Perhaps all the IC2 commands do is tell the chip to process the signal differently.  This could be the case as the composite vidio signal is split and sent to both the chroma and luma ports on the chip in composite mode, not to different from most simple s-video to/from composite converters you can buy, but without changing that IC2 signal we won't be 100% sure...

BTW, forgive my ignorance everybody but why is chroma/luma also refered to Y/C?  I know the C is chroma but why is luma Y?

[Adeptus]

Why is black K? (yes yes I know, because B was already used for blue...)

Maybe they thought L was too easily confused with other things?
(upside down, it could be a 7... lowercase it could be a 1 or I...)

[viletim!]

Segasonicfan,
I think the easiest way achieve what you're after is to hook a small microcontroller (something cheap like a pic12c508) up to the I2C bus. It can put the chip into whatever mode you like at power on or at the push of a button, etc.

[Segasonicfan]

thanks viletim.  problem is i have no idea how to go about doing that.... X_X

-Segasonicfan

[Aidan]

Try something like
http://www.boerde.de/~matthias/delphi/
or
http://users.tkk.fi/~iisakkil/stuff.html

One of them has an EEPROM emulator that you might be able to use. I suspect that some of the settings in the EEPROM are used to program the display controller up at startup.

[viletim!]

I can see butter_pat_head's eeprom piccy now (using a hi-tech graphical browser :). It looks like there's two lots of data for the jungle IC. One lot starts at 0011 and ends at 001C and the other goes from 0020 to 002B. Likely one lot for RGB mode and another for composite mode. I can't really tell what byte does what but once you find out what one of them does (through experimentation?)  the rest should be easy to find out (if it's programmed in "auto-increment mode" that is).

Alternatively, feeding the required I2C data from a micro should be a simple task for someone good with these things (not me). I2C FAQ.

I'm not really sure there's much benifit in connecting component input to such a small display, is there?

butter_pat_head,
The Y/C input should look a fair bit better than the composite one. Did you remember to terminated both Y and C with a 75 ohm resistor? You might also want to remove the chroma trap from pin 58 as well. A good I2C programmer that I use is the PonyProg programmer.

[Segasonicfan]

Viletim-

The main reason for the component mod on the screen is for compatibilty issues.  The PS2 (and other systems/future systems) will NOT let you watch DVDs in RGB.  Also, playing games in RGB works for a short while but not after extended play.  Sony (for piracy issues I'm told) is very anti-RGB.  So in order to watch DVDs on my Portable PS2 I need to either use composite (terrible quality) or component (ideal).  If someone figures out a working S-Video mod that would be sufficient too.

also, pin 58 doesnt need to be adjusted for S-Video.  That pin controls the PAL/NTSC display.  pin 51 needs to be separated for individual chroma input though.  That's what my mod does (see pics from previous link).  I just need to find a way to program the chip to set it to S-video mode.

-Segasonicfan

[viletim!]

also, pin 58 doesnt need to be adjusted for S-Video. That pin controls the PAL/NTSC display. pin 51 needs to be separated for individual chroma input though. That's what my mod does (see pics from previous link). I just need to find a way to program the chip to set it to S-video mode.

Are we talking about the same chip here? The AN2526NFH doesn't differentiate between composite video and s-video so there's no s-video mode. You simply feed the Y and C signals through the same filters that the composite video goes through. The components attached to pin 58 are for filtering the C out of a composite signal. As there's no C in a Y signal this filter isn't required. Also, I think you're missing a termination resistor (refering to your mod link). There will be one from composite input but when you cut the track you'll need to add another one so both Y and C are terminated properly.

PAL/NTSC is controlled through the serial interface. Maybe the controller IC will let you switch between them...

[Segasonicfan]

Yes, we're talking about the same chip.  I just don't have quite the amount of know-how that you do ;-)  

Yeah, pin 58 is a chroma trap so you're right about that.  I was looking at the schem where it refers to the cap around the being a certain rating for NTSC and PAL.  I'm not sure what you mean by terminating the Y and C signals though...do you mean connecting them to ground via a 75ohm resistor?  Sorry, but I just don't know this stuff as well as you do.  Please let me know exactly what I have to do (in lamens terms if you can =P)  so I can try it out with another mod.  Thanks!

-Segasonicfan

[Segasonicfan]

I found a great pic here that shows everything on the motherboard we're talking about.  It's in German but you can still make some sense of it ;-)

-Segasonicfan

[viletim!]

Segasonicfan,
Yeah, terminating is simply connecting a resistor between the input and ground. All video inputs require termination at 75 ohms - composite, s-video, RGB, component, even the RF antenna input. If you don't terminate the video signal it's amplitude (usualy) doubles in size and causes lots of problems.

There will be one termination resistor already in the circuit ('750' on a SMD). When you cut a track and seperate the Y from the C input you'll have to add another.

These little monitors look really handy. I'll probably buy one...well if I can find one for less than $50 :)

[Segasonicfan]

Viletim-  Go to Best Buy and buy the Zenith 5" screen (it's the exact same thing) for $45.  They make them for both Gamecube and XBox and it's definitely very handy.  And of course then we can all combine our efforts to make these mods! =)  Hell, if you can get component output on it I'll GIVE you one of em =)  

For now I'll try doing the mod with the termination resistor.  However, inserting luma via the Composite input in the front may also be the problem...do you think?  Cause that leads to an LM1881 which extracts the sync info but the input is meant to be composite not luma...

-Segasonicfan

[viletim!]

An LM1881 can strip the sync off a Y signal without any problems. Y is the same as composite but without the colour signal modulated over the top. If the video content is 'black and white' then Y is identical to composite.

I'm sure it's possible to get a component input (you did mean input didn't you?) one way or another. I'll take you up on the offer if you're serious - I'll even pay the postage to Australia :).

[Segasonicfan]

I'm definitely serious...and I meant output as in on the LCD.  If you can figure out the mod I'll gladly send you a screen.  This mod is easily that important to me (for my PSTwo portable).  

-Segasonicfan

[viletim!]

Ok...a simple enough task, assuming you're feeding the monitor with s-video. There are R-Y and B-Y outputs from the IC. The datasheet doesn't say much about them other than they exist. Those signals might need some attenuating/other stuff before they can be fed to a TV. The Y input signal can be buffered and split (if the cable between the console and monitor is short you can probably get away with a single transistor circuit) - one output to the Y input on the IC, the other to the component output.

[Segasonicfan]

no I mean I need to be able to input Component from my ps2...that's the whole point.

-Segasonicfan

[viletim!]

ah, gotcha (I thought it was a bit strange you wanting an video output from the LCD monitor...)

so...yes...I'll have a play around in the eeprom data and see what happens. Failing that I could probably cobble together some PIC I2C sending code (my pic asm skills could do with some practice).

[Segasonicfan]

sounds good.  I'm buying another screen right now and I have 2 extras so sending you one won't be a problem ;-)

-Segasonicfan

[fragment]

I just installed a chip in my PS2 that disables macrovision protection so I am able to watch DVD movies on my PS1 screen that is hooked up to my PS2 with a custom RGB cable that I made. This setup will give a better image than the component video setup.

see this posting for details: http://nfg.2y.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=669&hl=

However, I would be interested in the S-Video mod because I have some systems that lack the RGB setup.









Erik

[-Martin-]

Also, playing games in RGB works for a short while but not after extended play.

That is bull!
I play my PS2 in RGB for hours on end and see no problems at all.
sometimes I even leave it on RGB and walk away and come back about 6 hours later! Colours are still fine!

[Segasonicfan]

lol...you say COLOURS Huh?  That's cause YOU ARE NOT IN AMERICA YOU ARE USING A PAL PS2!  Sony isn't trying to mess with RGB in PAL only NTSC.  Also, I'm talking about the PSTwo (model 2 Slimline), I don't know about the original.

-Segasonicfan

[Guest]

lol...you say COLOURS Huh?  That's cause YOU ARE NOT IN AMERICA YOU ARE USING A PAL PS2!  Sony isn't trying to mess with RGB in PAL only NTSC.  Also, I'm talking about the PSTwo (model 2 Slimline), I don't know about the original.

-Segasonicfan

The Pal/NTSC is controled by software on the PS2, and PAL PS2's don't do RGB on DVD's either! I am talking about PS2Two as well! THe only real difference between the Video parts of the NTSC and PAL Ps2s is the fact that NTSC PS2's have a smaller DVD frame buffer (because the frames are lower resolution than PAL frames)  

[Endymion]

lol...you say COLOURS Huh?  That's cause YOU ARE NOT IN AMERICA YOU ARE USING A PAL PS2!  Sony isn't trying to mess with RGB in PAL only NTSC.  Also, I'm talking about the PSTwo (model 2 Slimline), I don't know about the original.

-Segasonicfan

Erm dude, I have two Playstation 2s and a PSTwo and they all do RGB all day long without any problems. The first run of the Playstation two some five years ago could play DVD in RGB but this was quickly changed once the geeks got wind of it due to movie mogul concerns. Other than that your anti-RGB rant from Sony's POV is all news to me, sure doesn't keep my RGB from working with games either. I had heard about PSTwos crashing with certain games, but one of them was a Crash game so what do you expect? That's just a bug or hardware errata that will probably be corrected, sucks for kiddies and/or Crash fans though, heh.

And I use British spellings in the Americas.  

[Adeptus]

I had heard about PSTwos crashing with certain games, but one of them was a Crash game so what do you expect?

Is that a "feature"? More crash in your Crash?    

[Segasonicfan]

Well all I can say is I'm talking from first hand experience here.  I've owned 4 new PSTwo consoles and ALL of them had problems with RGB (with the PSOne screen).  I've used the same screen on many different versions of the Genesis where RGB was no problem.  However, on the PSTwo the screen turns to a greenish tint after 30min so I had to install a switch to composite.  I some how doubt it's a problem with the screen since it works perfectly with all other RGB applications and I suspect Sony because of their Macrovision problems.  

-Segasonicfan

[Endymion]

In that case I would more suspect your work than anything else. Think about the European headache they would be setting themselves up for by doing anything to RGB. What the hell do they need to dampen RGB for due to Macrovision when they've already completely disabled DVDs in RGB to start with? What you propose just makes little to no sense, in other words.

[Segasonicfan]

lol, do I need to make a video of it for you?  There's nothing wrong with my work and they (obviously) don't ship the same console overseas.  Macroision makes little to sense if you think about it.  Most people in the US don't even know what RGB is, let alone attempt to to use it for pirating.  You can easily rip/pirate DVDs/shows/anything using Sony's own product, the DVMC-DA2 media converter.

Anyway, I'm really tired of going back and forth on this.  This isn't even why I started this topic.  This topic is about the PSOne screen and developing an S-Video/Component input mod for it.  

-Segasonicfan

[Endymion]

Don't make a video of it for me, use another RGB monitor, one that you didn't have to slice to ribbons to make work. It's good to be confident in your abilities but when you have the results you do, I (and many others) will say "check your work." Even when you're a pro, that's good advice. It sure beats coming up with unfounded claims about hardware design and purpose. The same console ships overseas with respects to what it can and can't do via RGB. The PAL and NTSC units differ by a factor of zero for RGB, unless you want to count sync. Most people in the US and the world don't know what RGB is, and that dear sir is enough to keep Sony from engineering against it. Macrovision doesn't exist in any form in your games. Makes the whole "disable RGB" idea moot. Don't you think if they wanted to kill NTSC RGB dead that it would never work at all? I sure would think that they would know how to engineer even 30 minutes worth of RGB out of your system.

[Guest]

Hrmmm, I think I may have figured out the issue.  Where did you draw your sync line from?  I've just been drawing it from the Y output but maybe I should be using an LM1881 to strip it from Compositve video out.  Is that what you did?

-Segasonicfan

[Segasonicfan]

Also, do the RGB signals require 220uf caps or terminating resistors?  I jsut fed the lines directly to my screen.  This could be the problem as well....Any guesses?

-Segasonicfan

[Segasonicfan]

That's strange....I posted a similar topic here http://benheck.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=84073#84073 and someone else is having the same problem....

whoever has 100% working RGB please help!

-Segasonicfan