Panasonic Q GC to 13W3 monitor? Anyone done this?

[Strolls]

Hi there,

I recently bought a Panasonic Q from an eBayer in Japan, and am wondering if anyone can help me connect it to my 13w3 monitor.

My monitor was a very good one a decade ago - it was sold by Silicon Graphics for their workstations so has a 13w3 connector just like the one described as "the RGB Connector" in the Atari Labs RGB & Gaming article and is shown on this list as having a vertical refresh rate of 30-96KHz (it's the GDM20E21, a Sony badged with the SGI logo). It supports sync-on-green.

Third-party digital video cables for the Gamecube are cheap & widely available in the UK, both from  eBay and elsewhere, and I have a couple of spare 13w3 cables here I can cut up. I'm ok with a soldering iron, so everything would seem to be set, apart from the fact that I don't have a clue what to do!!

I'm also reading that import Gamecubes have different output from UK ones, so I don't even know if I can connect this up to my mate's TV without modifying some cables.   :unsure:
(I don't currently have a TV myself, which doesn't help)

Can anyone help explain to me in words of one syllable what I need to do, please?

It doesn't help my confidence that I'm finding different sources listing different pinouts for the SGI's 13w3 connectors:
http://pinouts.ru/Video/sgivideo_pinout.shtml
http://www.interfacebus.com/Video_Connector_13W3_Pinout.html

The Q is supplied with a cable like this - I believe that's a composite cable? - but mmmonkey's NTSC Gamecube RGB cable guide (see the bottom of the page) confirms that the Q gives RGB out of the digital port.

I've posted a photo of the back of the Q and pages 10 and 11 from it's manual in case they're useful or of interest to anyone.

Thanks in advance for any help or comments,

Stroller.

[NFG]

The monitor you have is just a fancy VGA monitor, you can mod a GC component cable to output VGA, and you should easily be able to mod that VGA signal to the 13w3 (as easily as any other VGA signal anyway).

PAL software does not support progressive (ie: 31kHz) so you'll be stuck with only NTSC software, and only titles that support progressive - not all do.

[Strolls]

I see - thanks for your reply. It wasn't what I wanted to hear, but it has saved me wasting a bunch of time. I really bought this just to play cheap UK games, so I guess I'll have to end up using the component lead.

The monitors also have a regular VGA connector - I had just thought the 13w3 would be more suitable - so will a VGA convertor like this work with PAL games?

Finally: do you think you could possibly clarify whether a digital AV out cable like these will work between the Japanese Q and the scart lead of a European telly?

I think I read that it won't, but I've been a bit overwhelmed with information on this subject, and I guess I'm not taking it all in. Any pointers to webpages explaining why it won't work would be much appreciated. Would it be possible to modify a UK scart cable so that it works with the Q?
(I think I may be able to Google this, but I was up really late doing just last night, and so right now I've just woken, am really sleepy and my brain isn't working yet).

I appreciate you taking the time to reply to me already,

Stroller.

[Endymion]

For whatever reason, the USA/NTSC Cubes do not output RGB. They can output component both interlaced and progressive, but not standard RGB--the PAL Cubes do that. I would fully expect the JPN/NTSC Cubes like yours to operate as the USA ones do, but I do not know if the lock that prevents the USA/NTSC Cubes from creating standard RGB are hardware or software.

The only method I have seen to force standard RGB from a USA/NTSC Cube was by way of modifying a component cable--once you modify the component cable you can either go VGA with it, or standard RGB, but since the cable mod was required it would seem to point to a hardware lock or simply lack of RGB hardware in the USA/NTSC Cube.

Where am I going with this? Well I recall reading from a thread at ars technica how one Briton with a PAL Cube had been using USA/NTSC games to acquire progressive scan component video from his entirely PAL hardware, and I had previously been under the impression that a component cable would not work on the PAL Cube, much less provide a progressive scan even with USA software.

This might be more puzzling with respect to the NTSC's RGB lock, but it definitely makes me wonder if playing PAL games on an NTSC (JPN or USA) Cube would actually provide standard RGB. After this ramble, I guess all I have to say is that if the JPN/NTSC Cube's RGB-lock is in fact hardware, then you would not be able to use  the (SCART, not digital) A/V cables you linked to in order to get an RGB signal, but they would work if you were using them for Composite or S-Video. If on the other hand the software has something to do with the RGB lock, it might be possible that you could get an RGB signal when running PAL games on it.

I'm really surprised that a direct RGB method from the Cube hasn't been discovered for NTSC models by now.

[NFG]

PAL CUBE games do not support progressive, it's a software lock.   All cubes can output progressive component (or RGB with a modified cable) but the software must support it, and not all titles do.

NTSC cubes have no connections for the RGB pins in the multi-AV port, it's a hardware block.

I don't know if PAL cube software fails to support the component cable at all, but if the component cable works (And I assume it must or there's no reason to include the port on PAL hardware) then the only single-cable solution for 15kHz RGB on all cubes is a modified component cable.

[Midori]

PAL CUBE software supports the Component lead, as far as I know that includes every single PAL title released. However, as you pointed out, it will always be an interlaced picture.

[Strolls]

Hi there,

Sorry for not replying sooner. I expected the forum to notify me of new posts, but for some reason it didn't since your first reply.

For whatever reason, the USA/NTSC Cubes do not output RGB. They can output component both interlaced and progressive, but not standard RGB--the PAL Cubes do that. I would fully expect the JPN/NTSC Cubes like yours to operate as the USA ones do,

Ummm.... I believe that NTSC Cubes do output RGB, but only through the Nintendo Digital Video port.[/u] (I know that these were removed from later revisions of the Cube, but the Q has one).

mmmonkey's NTSC Gamecube RGB cable guide describes making the lead in some detail and mentions the Q on the last page. This doesn't help me connect to a VGA monitor, although since you say "you can mod a GC component cable to output VGA" I could do some homework on this (a quick Google isn't turning up any results, tho').

I'm really finding this subject confusing and really wish I could find another UK-based Q owner to discuss this with. What's frustrating as heck is that even Japanese SCART cables have (apparently) different pin-outs to European ones! Why can't I just get something off-the-shelf that'll work!!    With this in mind, the XRGB-3 is very tempting, but who knows when it'll be out?

I don't think Japanese Cubes (or my Q) are compatible with RGB cablesintended for European use, so I guess what I'm looking for is a component cable to connect to a VGA adaptor. Why the heck are component cables so much more expensive than RGB cables???

Stroller.

[NFG]

NTSC cubes do NOT output RGB, they output digital component.  You need a special chip to create RGB from this signal.  PAL cubes output regular ol' 15kHz analogue RGB.

You need to buy a regular old component cable for the gamecube, modify it for RGB by connecting pin 12 of the chip inside it to pin 1 of the GC connector, then hook up a VGA connector to this new cable.  You have to solder two wires, to (IIRC) pins 22 and 23 of the chip, and then RGB are the red, green and blue wires that used to do component.

It's not hard.

[Strolls]

NTSC cubes do NOT output RGB, they output digital component.  You need a special chip to create RGB from this signal.

Ooops. Excuse me. This is not an obvious distinction to me. I knew that some (all?) of the cables which use the digital interface have a chip in, and that the chip in such cables was required to mod other cables.

You need to buy a regular old component cable for the gamecube, modify it for RGB by...

Thanks. I'll maybe have a crack at that.

Stroller.

[Endymion]

The chip that the Gamecube component cable has is a DAC. In all other consoles (that's right, all of them, at least all the ones that have component output) the DAC is in the console. Nintendo saved money on the Gamecube production by moving the DAC out of the console and into the cable. This is why their cable was always $40-50 when an XBox or PS2 component cable was only 10-20.

The RGB is another matter, as it appears there's something wired up inside the PAL units that is not in the NTSC ones. Either that, or (just as likely with Nintendo, it seems) the NTSC Cubes lack some hardware for RGB.

Still surprised a direct (i.e. inside-the-cube) mod for RGB hasn't been discovered by now.

[KeepGood]

Hi Strolls.

I can cut this one a bit shorter for you.  The Panasonic Q is an NTSC machine, so you'll get progressive on alot of games anyway, but dont worry about the ones that dont support it, there is a way around it.

You'll need to get a component cable for your machine and do the VGA mod on it.  Now you do have another problem.  The 13W3 connector is missing some required signals, namely HSYNC and VSYNC.  Luckily alot of SGI monitors do have the inputs for these signals, but they are inside the monitor.  I use two SGI 17E11 monitors on my PC.

So overall you'll need to ....

1. Make sure your monitor has the HSYNC and VSYNC inputs (not available on the 13W3). If it doesnt, you're stuck.

2. Get your Q ready to output a VGA signal (via the component cable mod).

3. Play games and have fun.


Now onto the workaround for the games that dont support progressive output.  The only way I know of to get progressive out of a cube/Q all the time is to use a Qoob Pro modchip.  It supports forcing the video mode.  The ViperGC Extreme doesnt support this yet, but should in the future.  It helps having the chip in that without forcing the video mode into progressive, you wont see any of the Q bios screens, you will only see the game (nothing before hand unless you have a TV plugged into the AV port).

With your monitor, if you have an E11 model ie. 17E11, 19E11, 20E11 etc, they definitely have the appropriate inputs inside the monitor.