Which consoles support which connections?

[TJ_Kat]

I went through the first 5 pages of this board to compile my own list, but started to get frustrated after that.

What I'd like to know is, which consoles support which video modes natively (ie: without requiring extensive modifications. Nothing much more that RGB enabling an N64.)

This is what i got so far:

Code Select Expand

Console     | RGB | Component | S-Video | Video | RF |
============|=====|===========|=========|=======|====|
NES         |     |           |         |       |  X |
SNES        |  X  |           |    X    |   X   |  X |
N64         |  X  |           |         |   X   |    |
GCN         |     |     X     |         |   X   |    |
Playstation |     |           |         |   X   |    |
PS2         |     |     X     |         |   X   |    |
Saturn      |  X  |     X     |    X    |   X   |    |
Dreamcast   |  X  |           |         |       |    |
XBox        |     |     X     |         |       |    |


*Note: no, I don't have a Dreamcast or an XBox yet, so I don't know what the standard connection that comes with the system is.

I figured this might be useful to have all in one place.

So, if the more experienced people around here would be so kind as to fill in the blanks, correct mistakes I've made, and/or add consoles that I haven't listed, that would be nice. It would also be nice if people could add which connections can still be made with more extensive modifications and/or adapters.

Also, my second question:
Here's what the back of my TV looks like

Which connection can I get all (or almost all) of the above listed consoles connected to? Ideally, I would like all my consoles to have the same connection, but also to be outputting at the highest possible quality.

[NFG]

There are gobs of errors or omissions on your chart.  Where'd you get the idea Saturn did component?  All playstations do RGB, and so does the GC if you hack up the component cable.  So does the Xbox.

This is taking too long.

Before I fix the rest of your errors I'm gonna suggest you go read the AV pinouts on gamesx.com and re-do the list.  What you've got here indicates a near-total lack of research.

The goal is noble, get crackin'.  =)

[dj898]

[EDIT] re-read the post and you did say support natively so I guess you are referring to the out of box support.

also clarify whether you are compiling out of box ability or including the things can be done my mod...

it would be simpler to list out of box connection options first and expand further...
also with certain console depends who manufactured and/or revision the connection options change - i.e. unlike normal MD Wondermega I from Sega/JVC have S-video and launch PS having S-video but dropped in subsequent revision and etc.

still great idea and wish you good luck mate!

cheers

[atom]

I actually took interest in this list idea.

Please help with corrections, no I am not counting playchoice mods

Code Select Expand

Console     | RGB | Component | S-Vid | Composite |
============|=====|===========|=======|===========|
ATARI 2600  |     |           |   O   |     O     |
NES -MODEL1 |     |           |       |     X     |
NES -MODEL2 |     |           |       |           |
MASTER SYS  |  X  |           |       |     X     |
GENESIS 1   |  X  |           |       |     X     |
GENESIS 2   |  X  |           |       |     X     |
SNES -MODEL1|  X  |           |   X   |     X     |
SNES -MODEL2|  O  |           |   O   |     X     |
N64         |  O  |           |   X   |     X     |
GCN         |  X+ |     X     |   X   |     X     |
DREAMCAST   |  X+ |           |   X   |     X     |
PS          |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |
PSONE       |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |
PS2         |  X+ |           |   X   |     X     |
XBOX        |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |
===================================================
X   YES
X+  VGA
O  MOD AVAILABLE


[dj898]

Xbox and PS2 do YUV.
All you need is the cable to hook up like GC.

AFAIW only the three current gen consoles support YUV connection.

also SCPH-1000 series PS has S-Video port at the back.
and Sega/JVC Wondermega I have S-Video port at the back as well.

finally any reason why there's no Saturn?

cheers

[NFG]

Saturn was in the original list.

All RGB capable systems can be modded to output S-video, as far as I'm aware.  And if anyone can point me to the SNES2 Svideo mod shown on the list above, I'd like to see it.

[TJ_Kat]

Where'd you get the idea Saturn did component?

I got that idea here: http://www.gamesx.com/avpinouts/saturnav.htm
It says, "As this pinout shows, the Saturn A/V outputs damn near every signal you'll ever need to use." I took that statement at face value, and didn't give the diagram proper scrutiny. Oops.

And yes, I did ask which modes were supported WITHOUT major modifications. I did try, but I couldn't find any simple solutions to give Game Cubes or XBoxes RGB output.

Also, I did read the pinouts.

- The one for XBox only lists SCART for RGB; I found mention of more general RGB capabilities, but it all sounded like expensive 3rd party adapters were needed to get it done.

- Yes, I missed marking the one for Playstation.

- I did not mark the PS2 because I couldn't find anything saying that the PS2 pinout was the same as the Playstation (after all, SNES, N64, and GCN aren't the same despite their common connector).

- Everything I found on the GCN looked like quite a bit of work, and a lot of complaints about reliability.

To clarify, I'm looking primarily for out of box capabilities, or ones that can be done with a relatively safe and simple mod, like getting RGB out of the SNES2 or N64. However, it did occure to me as I was posting that adding the more involved mods would make the chart more complete.

Finally, I know the list of consoles is incomplete. I only included the ones that I currently own, or plan on owning in the near future. Again, it occured to me right before posting that adding ALL consoles would make the chart more complete and helpful to everyone, not just me.

Now, can someone explaine why being RGB capable is not the same as being VGA capable? I got the impression it has something to do with Frequency, but my head just hurts too much today to put everything together properly.

Thanks for everyone for helping me get a firmer grasp on this. To be honest, I think I did TOO MUCH research, because I came across so many things that contradicted one another. I was hoping for people who know from experience to set things straight for me before I start fiddling with several thousands of dollars worth of electronics.

So, our most current chart looks like this?

Code Select Expand


Console     | RGB | Component | S-Vid | Composite | RF |
============|=====|===========|=======|===========|====|
ATARI 2600  |     |           |   O   |     O     |  X |
NES -MODEL1 |     |           |       |     X     |  X |
NES -MODEL2 |     |           |       |           |  X |
MASTER SYS  |  X  |           |       |     X     |    |
GENESIS 1   |  X  |           |       |     X     |    |
GENESIS 2   |  X  |           |       |     X     |    |
SNES -MODEL1|  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X |
SNES -MODEL2|  O  |           |       |     X     |  ? |
NEO GEO     |  X  |           |   O   |     X     |    | <-- ?
ATARI JAGUAR|  X  |           |   X   |     X     |    | <-- ?
SATURN      |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |    |
N64         |  O  |           |   X   |     X     |    |
GCN         |  X+ |     X     |   X   |     X     |    |
DREAMCAST   |  X+ |           |   X   |     X     |    |
PS          |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |    |
PSONE       |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |    |
PS2         |  X+ |     X     |   X   |     X     |    |
XBOX        |  X  |     X     |   X   |     X     |    |
========================================================
X   YES
X+  VGA
O  MOD AVAILABLE


[dj898]

you might want to check N64 though...
from memory later revision of N64 missed out on S-video or was it for PAL consoles only?

also later NGC is missing out YUV since it no longer has that digital port...

cheers

[NFG]

It says, "As this pinout shows, the Saturn A/V outputs damn near every signal you'll ever need to use." I took that statement at face value, and didn't give the diagram proper scrutiny.

This was written before DVD players were common and component video was more or less unheard of.  =)

(ie: without requiring extensive modifications. Nothing much more that RGB enabling an N64.)

Now I read this and I think that cutting up a GC component cable is probably just as easy as an N64 RGB mod, and really not many mods are MORE complicated.  It's not a very limiting restriction.

Giving an Xbox RGB output is just as easy as a DC, all it requires is a cable with a few pins grounded to signal the proper video mode.

- I did not mark the PS2 because I couldn't find anything saying that the PS2 pinout was the same as the Playstation (after all, SNES, N64, and GCN aren't the same despite their common connector).

PS1 and 2 are the same connector and signals, just as the Nintendo ones are.  Almost - the PS2 allows RGB or component on the same 3 pins, selectable in the system menu.  The Nintendo pinouts are all the same where the signals are actually present.  For example the audio, Vcc and GND pins are the same across the board, but where RGB is on the SNES there are unused pins on the N64.  Same pinout, but not all signals are present.  A minor distinction perhaps, but we should be clear.

- Everything I found on the GCN looked like quite a bit of work, and a lot of complaints about reliability.

See my first point for work involved, but as far as reliability - if you can't solder well nothing's going to be reliable.  Perhaps your list should be seperated into 'requires soldering' and 'not', and perhaps a third category for internal/external mods?

Now, can someone explaine why being RGB capable is not the same as being VGA capable?

Same signals, different resolutions.  They still output video at 60Hz but since there are twice as many lines per screen the drawing rate naturally has to double.  

640 vertical lines = 31kHz
320 vertical lines = 15kHz

Just remember that most TVs don't go higher than 15 and most VGA monitors don't go lower than 31.

My latest version of the chart would go like this:

Code Select Expand


Console     | P | RGB | Component | S-Vid | Composite | RF  |
============|===|=====|===========|=======|===========|=====|
3DO         |   |     |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
ATARI 2600  |   |     |           |   O   |     O     |  X  |
DREAMCAST   | X |  X+ |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
GameCube    | X |  X+ |     X     |   X   |     X     |  X  |
GENESIS 1   |   |  X  |           |   O   |     X     |  X  |
GENESIS 2   |   |  X  |           |   O   |     X     |  X  |
HiSaturn Nav|   |  O  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
JAGUAR      |   |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
MASTER SYS 1|   |  X  |           |   O   |     X     |  X  |
MASTER SYS 2|   |  O  |           |   O   |     X     |  X  |
N64         |   |  O* |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
NEO GEO     |   |  X  |           |   O   |     X     |  X  |
NEO GEO CD  |   |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
NES 1       |   |  O  |           |       |     X     |  X  |
NES 2       |   |  O  |           |       |     O     |  X  |
PC Engine   |   |  O  |           |       |     O     |  X  |
PCE (etc)   |   |  O  |           |       |     X     |  X  |
PCFX        |   |     |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
PS1         |   |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
PS2         | * |  X+ |     X     |   X   |     X     |  X  |
SATURN      |   |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
SNES -MODEL1|   |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
SNES -MODEL2|   |  O  |           |       |     X     |  X  |
WonderMega  |   |  O  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
XBOX        | X |  X  |     X     |   X   |     X     |  X  |
=============================================================
X   YES
X+  VGA
O   MOD AVAILABLE
*   Rarely supported


Changes:
[size=8]- No distinction between PS1 and PSOne
- Added SMS 1 + 2, since the 2 has no multi AV output
- All consoles have RF adaptors available, there are no exceptions I'm aware of.  Some use an adaptor - AV Famicom, N64, DC, Gen2, etc, but I don't know if this needs to be mentioned?
- Almost all consoles with RGB can easily output S-video.  The chips used in the Neo/Gen/SMS are almost identical in this regard.
- N64 RGB hack has a * 'cause not all units are moddable.
- Changed GCN to GameCube 'cause GCN sounds stupid.  
- Added a column for Progressive output (P).  PS2 has a * 'cause very few games support it, and officially none do.
- Alphabetized list
- Added consoles: PCE, PCFX, Wondermega, HiSaturn Navi, 3DO, Neo CD,
[/size]

[atom]

Wow that really took off,  I figured RF was a given, and useless. I also didnt consider coverting RGB into S-Video with active components as a mod. I figured the list would be most useful for those who wanted to tap signals right from the console. Good idea with progressive thats very useful.

[TJ_Kat]

You da man Lawrence =)

(you are male, right?)

Anyway,

Same signals, different resolutions. They still output video at 60Hz but since there are twice as many lines per screen the drawing rate naturally has to double.

640 vertical lines = 31kHz
320 vertical lines = 15kHz

Just remember that most TVs don't go higher than 15 and most VGA monitors don't go lower than 31.

That's what I'd thought I'd read. Thank you for making it crystal clear =)

Now, I also think I read that pretty much all consoles output at 15KHz; and that a VGA box (a.k.a. lots of money) is required to make 15KHz RGB into 31KHz VGA.

Now then, looking over my TV's specs, the VGA and DVI ports both support 31KHz and up, and the RF, Composite, S-Vid, and Component all support 15KHz. Ultimatly, would it be worth my time to try and get a dozen consoles to be VGA compatible, or would I be better off settling with S-Vid (as I've read there isn't TOO MUCH degredation in quality going from RGB to S-Vid).

Perhaps your list should be seperated into 'requires soldering' and 'not', and perhaps a third category for internal/external mods?

Better yet, categorize according to skill level, or... or... or... have each square on the grid link to a step by step guide on how to perform the mod (I am getting entirely too into this. *note to self: take deep breaths... in... out... good boy...)

[Aidan]

Careful not to confuse RGB and VGA here. Whilst some systems that are RGB compatible might also support VGA, there's no promise.

It also might be worth seperating out PAL/NTSC for those consoles (N64 anyone?) that don't provide the same outputs for different regions.

[Guest]

I think xbox vga should be added as a mod "without extensive modification" and also the ps2 now as both can be built with only a cable hack and a modchip.

[ilesj]

Master System II doesn't have composite support out of box, right? It ca be modded for composite, S-video and RGB, but stock units have only RF. Or are there differences between machines (PAL, US, JAP)?

[Sumez]

I'm fairly sure mine doesn't have composite...

[TuZhao]

Whoa, I was longing to see a table like this Really useful! Thanks everyone for the effort.
I agree about indicating whether PAL and NTSC consoles differ, especially about progressive and/or RGB or component capabilities, so that you know if you'll need an upscan converter or a transcoder in order to get VGA output.

[NFG]

I'm not aware of any PAL/NTSC console differences.  The GameCube hardware is the same for PAL and NTSC, it's the SOFTWARE that determines progressive support.

[TuZhao]

I was quite certain that PAL XBoxes had the progressive component output disabled :unsure: So I thought all PAL consoles suffered this limitation - I even thought that every PAL console of every generation always had some limitations over its NTSC counterpart.
Well, if I can play PAL Gamecube games with progressive output, that's really good news, I won't have to look for an USA console

[dj898]

PAL Xbox has the HDTV feature disabled from factory unlike NTSC counterpart...
The launch PAL Xbox had the bug in that you can use the HD AV pack to display in 525i but this was later disabled so no more HD AV pack for you w/ PAL Xbox... You can however mod Xbox to run the video switcher and once set your PAL Xbox in NTSC mode to reclaim all the HDTV feature... You can even turn off the chip after done that...

With PAL GC I think only when you run prog NTSC title using freeloader it will output the prog.
Only with NTSC titles however...

[atom]

Master System II doesn't have composite support out of box, right? It ca be modded for composite, S-video and RGB, but stock units have only RF. Or are there differences between machines (PAL, US, JAP)?

While I havent seen a Master System in many many years, I believe it has the same AV port as the Genesis 1 giving it all of those features. Just because you never owned an S-Video cable (did S-Video even exist?) doesnt mean that the connector doesnt provide the signals. Can anyone confirm this? I may be dead wrong considering how old the Master System is.

[Endymion]

Y/C existed in the Master System's era but it was excruciatingly uncommon and I believe it was yet to become the "S-video" that is it known as today, complete with the mini-DIN and all. You can get S-video from a Master System but only by using its RGB in a mod of some kind--chips that can do this have been discussed here, usually they are also suitable for RGB amplification. (i.e. the Master System, although it has an RGB amp, doesn't have one that can do S-video.)

[NFG]

Do you have a problem checking the gamesx.com site for things like this?  It's all there you know.

[atom]

Yes, it is my fault because i went by memory and didnt check the pinout.

[Shimarisu]

I didn't know the ps2 did VGA, where can I get a cable? I can't find any online.

[NFG]

It doesn't matter if you find a cable, not many monitors support Sync-on-green and almost no software supports the high-res mode.

[ilesj]

While I havent seen a Master System in many many years, I believe it has the same AV port as the Genesis 1 giving it all of those features. Just because you never owned an S-Video cable (did S-Video even exist?) doesnt mean that the connector doesnt provide the signals. Can anyone confirm this? I may be dead wrong considering how old the Master System is.

Atom, please.. You're insulting me. I have few Master Systems, and one of them is the II-model.  And I am very confident that my PAL Master System II doesn't have anything else than RF built in. Yes, original Master System had the same AV-port (8-pin DIN) that was in model 1 MD/Genesis.

Here's a picture of my SMS2: http://koti.mbnet.fi/~ilesj/xtemp/sms2.jpg
And here's a picture of the backside: http://koti.mbnet.fi/~ilesj/xtemp/backofms2.jpg

Now, there is that 8-pin DIN providing the same stuff as model 1 MD/Genesis, but I have added it afterwards as you can see (it's still missing the screws..). I did that because there was no other AV-out than RF, and the RFU was broken.

I did RGB/composite mod following instructions by Mike G.
http://www.mikeg2.freeserve.co.uk/masterful/rgb.html

And if you read it through, you'll see that S-video mod can be done without converting it from RGB.

[The Outrider]

I'm not quite sure what's the defining difference, but not all Jaguars even support RF.
One of the two I have doesn't even have a jack for it, the other one does. I think this might be a difference between PAL and NTSC versions - the one with the RF jack was a regular PAL one, the one without was originally bought as an NTSC import by my brother.
RGB cables are apparently quite easy to build as well; for all I know, homebrew RGB cables sold in bucketloads over here because the PAL Jag only came with an RF cable. Image quality-- and stuff.

Either way, the mainboards are generally identical AFAIK, except for a single 0-ohm resistor being set to throttle video output to 50Hz on PAL Jags. Or not set for throttling, I can never remember which way around it goes. I can look all that stuff up if necessary.

[racketboy]

Thanks guys!
I just wanted to say I've been looking for something like this for a while.

[TJ_Kat]

Code Select Expand

Console     | P | VGA | RGB | Component | S-Vid | Composite | RF  |
============|===|=====|=====|===========|=======|===========|=====|
3DO         |   |     |     |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
ATARI 2600  |   |     |     |           |   O   |     O     |  X  |
DREAMCAST   | X |  X  |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
GameCube    | X |  X  |  X  |     X     |   X   |     X     |  X  |
GENESIS 1   |   |     |  X  |           |   O   |     X     |  X  |
GENESIS 2   |   |     |  X  |           |   O   |     X     |  X  |
HiSaturn Nav|   |     |  O  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
JAGUAR      |   |     |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
MASTER SYS 1|   |     |  X  |           |   O   |     X     |  X  |
MASTER SYS 2|   |     |  O  |           |   O   |     O     |  X  |
N64         |   |     |  O* |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
NEO GEO     |   |     |  X  |           |   O   |     X     |  X  |
NEO GEO CD  |   |     |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
NES 1       |   |     |  O  |           |       |     X     |  X  |
NES 2       |   |     |  O  |           |       |     O     |  X  |
PC Engine   |   |     |  O  |           |       |     O     |  X  |
PCE (etc)   |   |     |  O  |           |       |     X     |  X  |
PCFX        |   |     |     |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
PS1         |   |     |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
PS2         | X |  X  |  X  |     X     |   X   |     X     |  X  |
SATURN      |   |     |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
SNES -MODEL1|   |     |  X  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
SNES -MODEL2|   |     |  O  |           |       |     X     |  X  |
WonderMega  |   |     |  O  |           |   X   |     X     |  X  |
XBOX        | X |     |  X  |     X     |   X   |     X     |  X  |
===================================================================
X   YES
O   MOD AVAILABLE
*   Not all N64 units are moddable

- I separated RGB and VGA into their own columns.
- I removed the '*' from the PS2's progressive column because some games DO officially support progressive scan.
- I changed the X to an O in the Master System II's composite column because someone mentionned that it only supported RF (but that may just be the PAL version)

For the next step, I would like to separate NTSC and PAL consoles. What I need to know first is: Is this chart totally correct for NTSC consoles?

After that, I'll need to know how the PAL consoles differ. ie: someone mentionned that PAL Xboxes and Game Cubes have their progressive ability disabled, but it can be restored with a mod.

[Sumez]

Well, a NTSC Gamecube outputs component from the box, but not RGB.
A PAL cube does the opposite.

The two formats can easily be converted, so the correct cable would be able to get a RGB signal from the NTSC GC's component output, and the other way around.

However, as a standard you won't get progressive scan from an RGB signal. Not because it's not possible, but TV's are just not made to do it.

I don't know if you'll be able to get progressive from a PAL cube just by converting the RGB signal to component. You'd probably at least need an NTSC game supporting it.

[NFG]

Well, a NTSC Gamecube outputs component from the box, but not RGB.

This isn't quite right.  The PAL GC outputs RGB on the Multi-AV port (same as a SNES) but NEITHER outputs component that you can use.

They output digital component that must be converted to regular analogue component using a Nintendo-made cable with a custom chip inside.  This chip also converts the digital component to VGA with almost no effort.  

Buying a component -> RGB transcoder would be lunacy when the same cable does both.  

No PAL software supports component video, but I'd be surprised to find a modded PAL cube outputs progressive RGB through the multi-AV port when running NTSC software.  Anyone confirm this?

[Guest]

A friend of mine modded his component cable to output RGB, so I assumed so. Seems he was mistaken.

Another correction is that apparently PAL cubes DO support component, AND if you use NTSC games with progressive scan (using a Freeloader), that will also work. So no differences between US and Europe here.

[Sumez]

That was my post, of course..

EDIT: Hm, I sort of misunderstood your post. So we agree that a US cube doesn't output RGB.
So if you need an RGB signal, I don't see what's crazy about modding the cable?

I'll also assume that by "PAL games don't support component" you meant progressive.

Do you think it's possible in some way (possibly with an action replay or a boot disc that doesn't yet exist) to get progressive from a PAL game that supported progressive in the NTSC version? I'm suspecting that they might not have cared to remove the feature from the game. They just changed the "hold down B" feature to making the game run in 60hz.