Because of course it would be, wouldn't it?
It was pretty cheap, and listed like 99% of all the other X68k's as "Power on - untested"... or words to that effect. It was pretty filthy, but actually, apart from some scratches in the top metal cover, it's cleaned up really nicely.
It arrived today, and of course, only the red power light comes on (I wasn't expecting anything else)... no signs of life from the power button or on the video output (AD15-HD15 adapter into an OSSC). Sadly no goodies inside the case, but I already sourced a 1MB upgrade, an XSIMM10, MIDI card and an original Sharp SCSI card.
The plan is to pull the PSU out, fit a 90w PicoPSU and one of Edu Arana's ATX to X68000 (https://www.arananet.net/pedidos/product/atx-adapter-for-x68000/) adapter boards. Hopefully when it's all working again I'll use the SCSI card to natively boot from an AztecMonster that I've had sitting in a Mac IICi that I no longer use.
I'll post an update when the PicoPSU bits and pieces arrive and will also add it to my blog: https://www.target-earth.net/wiki/doku.php?id=blog:x68_pro_fault
I've got all the bits now to start replacing the PSU, so I decided to gut the PSU today (already removed from the case) to see what was wrong, and to cut off the wiring to reuse the connectors.
On first glance there wasn't much to see, maybe some discolouring around the base of several legs and where the wiring is soldered on to the board:
IMG_1572.JPG
But on flipping the board over....
IMG_1576.JPG
IMG_1579.JPG
... a truly horrendous amount of corrosion from those fairly huge capacitors! It's proper nasty, wet to the touch. Yuck. And having seen that, I looked a bit more carefully at the top of the PCB and it was easier to see that most of the vias were actually fluid-filled and discoloured:
IMG_1574.JPG
Wow. That's a proper failure!
The inside of the X68000 is super clean and there isn't the slightest sign of failed caps or even battery failure in there. The PSU almost looks like it has come from a completely different era and working environment!
I've got my Aranet ATX adapter and PicoPSU lined up to go in the case next, hole is drilled under the original AC socket for the 12v DC jack and I'm using one of the strengthening bars to mount the PicoPSU to. Should end up fairly neat.
Fingers crossed I'll have the work done by the end of the day....
So two steps forward, one step back.
Fitted the Aranet board and the PicoPSU... and the X68000 powered up again... briefly.
It powered on (green power light, yay!), but then started crackling from the speaker and within 2-3 seconds caps C241 (not C221, as I wrote earlier) and C243 (which are both rated 100uf 16v, 85'c) went pop and I immediately turned it off.
img_1591.jpg img_1592.jpg
<sigh>
I guess it is going to be a full board out and recap job then :-(
Since there wasn't a capacitor list for the Pro in the wiki, I just made one:
6x 0.47uF, 50v
9x 4.7uF, 50v
2x 1uF, 50v
1x 10uF, 16v
1x 22uF, 16v
1x 33uF, 10v
7x 47uF, 16v
3x 100uF, 6.3v
4x 100uF, 10v
5x 100uF, 16v
1x 220uF, 6.3v
5x 330uF, 6.3v
3x 330uF, 16v
1x 470uF, 6.3v
3x 470uF, 10v
1x 3300uF, 6.3v
That's only the radial electrolytics. I didn't list any of the bead types.
That's over 50 caps to replace, and 16 different ratings, too. Urgh... I just want to through this thing through the window right now....
Hehe, I've recapped 5 X68000 so far, and two of them turned out to be waste of time as the machines never ended up working. I actually kind of like the process, there is something so very zen about it since it requires all my of concentration. Or it might be all the leaky cap fumes getting to my head.
Caps ordered... hopefully they'll arrived this week (I'm on leave from work!) so I can get started quickly. What I'll probably do first is just replace the two that failed and try it again to see if it was just inrush current to two flaky caps, or if there is something else wrong thats more fundamental (which I'm not knowledgeable enough to solve myself, being honest).
The replacement cap set came... and I bought plenty of spares.
It's a good thing that I did, because:
img_1679.jpg
img_1680.jpg
Same behaviour as before:
- Connect power and red standby light comes on
- Press the power switch and the green light comes on
- Within a second or two the speaker starts to crackle and C241 and C243 blow.
That's only C241 and C243 replaced, btw... but I'm really reluctant to spend several days redoing all >50 caps if there's something more fundamental wrong which is causing them to blow consistently.
ARGH!!!
Any suggestions?
So to spare any further testing of the Pro directly, I measured the voltages coming of the PicoPSU via the Aranet ATX adapter:
+5v SB : +4.91 - 5.05v
+5v PC : +5.02v
+5v : +5.02v
+12v : +12.04v
-12v : -15.56v
Erm... Is that -12v line the problem? It's more than 25% out of spec.
I suspect that the -12v may be used in the audio/amplifier circuit? That's just a guess though, knowing some of the PC audio hardware of similar vintage to the X68000 which requires a -12v line on the PSU.
Looks to me like the -12v is unregulated. Is your PicoPSU a fake? I'm not sure modern PCs really need the -12v these days so might be "fine" to be unregulated on modern boards as in most people won't notice it. You could try detaching the -12v although don't know if that'd cause issues elsewhere.
Seems unusual they'd pop though, I'm assuming you've got the polarity right.
I'm trying to fix up a X68000 I got yesterday, will be doing the full recap too by the look of it, so might have some better ideas in time.
The PicoPSU wasn't supposed to be a fake. But there's always a chance that it is. I've ordered a genuine one from Mini-itx.com which is supposed to be arriving today.
I'll plug it in, leaving the ATX to X68000 header disconnected and see what the -12v line is putting out. Like you say, it could be unregulated as most PC's don't need it these days... as far as I'm aware, it was only ever an optional voltage on the ISA bus.
Polarity was definitely correct, according to the original caps on the board and the silkscreen polarity markings.
Fingers crossed that it didn't cause any more serious damage.
Looking at some schematics it looks like the OP amps use it. I would've thought maybe RS-232 also but can't see that on the older schematics. FWIW I measured mine and it's low but within tolerance (just under -11v). Wish I had a Pro, could try to follow the traces for you and see what it's connected to.
In my case it's an Ace HD, someone appears to have had a stab at fixing the IO board after battery leak. Seems in a real state, found a burnt diode, some traces look like they still need repair, etc.
Would love some schematics for it as some things on there appear to be bodged.
Well the replacement PicoPSU just arrived via DPD - just taken the voltage readings compared to the original:
+5v Standby : +5.06v
+5v Power Control : +5.06v
+5v : +5.06v
+12v : +12.2v
-12v : -13.6v
The +5v lines are slightly more stable (well, at least as much as I can see on my ancient Fluke 75). The -12v line is still higher than spec, but it's barely 10% above the nominal rating; compared to the almost -16v (25% above spec!) of the original PicoPSU.
Hopefully I'll get a chance to desolder those two dead caps (again) and replace today. Fingers crossed....
Just replaced the two caps and tested it again. Pop. Again.
I did notice some odd behaviour of the power light though, which I didn't pick up on previously:
Immediately on plugging it in and switching it on at the wall, the red standby light comes on, within 2-3 seconds it goes out and comes on green - without pressing the power button.
About half a second after the green light comes on, pop goes the caps. Though this time only C243 went pop.. not sure if that's just because I yanked the power cable faster than before though.
Okay, so I know what the problem is.
It's partly that I'm a moron and should verify every single source of information, but also partly that the X68000 Pro PSU schematic wiring colours do not match the wiring to the Pro motherboard header.
The PSU schematic (https://nfggames.com/X68000/Schematics/PSU/X68000_PRO_PSU_Schematics.pdf) states:
Orange: +5v Standby
Yellow: +5v Power Control
Blue: +12v
Brown: -12v
Red: +5v
Black: Ground
But the old power supply repair documentation (https://nfggames.com/nfg/x68repair/), actually has the correct colour codes:
pinout_pro.gif
So the two documents have +5v PC and +12v swapped, as well as +12v and -12v... and the latter is correct, because:
img20200801234312.jpg
img20200801234317.jpg
I can only hope that when I connect back up the rest of the components that nothing has been damaged beyond repair :(
Sorry you had that trouble,
@megatron-uk I've just updated the PDF based on your discoveries, along with a note to check the colours.
Revised schematic (https://nfggames.com/X68000/Schematics/PSU/X68000_PRO_PSU_Schematics.pdf) (Same URL as the old one).
So, at least the video output is working:
img20200802104808.jpg
There's a bit of background hiss from the onboard speaker, as well as through headphones when connected to the rear 3.5mm jack... so there's likely some of the audio circuitry capacitors need replacing (not surprising, considering the abuse they've just been through).
I'll try to work out which ones those are (they at least include C241!) and replace them before moving on to floppy drives, keyboards and then ultimately the IO slots for my midi, scsi and xsimm cards.
So I think the audio noise is actually the volume pot at the front - if I turn it up or down slightly the noise goes away, so I expect it's actually the pot that's at fault, not the rest of the audio circuit. Though I won't know for sure until I get the rest of the system assembled and capable of booting a game.
So the floppy drives work, at least partially; I wrote a copy of masterdisk_v3.xdf to a floppy and I get this:
img20200802195305.jpg
Both drives have working power eject, though only the upper (drive 0), appears to read the disk, the lower drive spits it back out almost immediately. I can hear the floppy being read (disk light changes colour) for maybe 3 seconds, then it stops with the above message.
I do currently have all my cards fitted (SCSI, XSIMM and MIDI), so I'll take them out and try again.
It's not any of the cards - I removed everything; the IOData 1MB expansion, and all of the IO slot cards - no difference.
Hmm... keyboard doesn't appear to be working either, which may be a bigger problem. I've got one of the Aranet PS/2 adaptors and there are no lights showing on the keyboards I've tried, and it doesn't respond to any key presses (e.g. if I press interrupt as the floppy is seeking, neither (A), (R) or (I) does anything).
Sigh.
I guess the next job is to see whether there is any power at the keyboard port.
Keyboard pin 1 should be connected straight to the 5v in if my board is anything like yours. I'd be surprised if it's just that at fault.
Meanwhile trying to see if my Ace IO board is actually salvageable. If you're going to clean up after a battery leak, please do it properly. So far looking like most of the traces are there at least. No idea why you'd go to all the trouble of trying to fix traces but not clean the rest of the board properly.
If I try the Motos floppy, the system actually boots the game fully:
Sound is present, but very low - the volume control needs to be cranked right up. Again, the keyboard has no effect.
I'm thinking I'm going to have to go back and do a full re-cap before trying anything else.
Quote from: watto on August 03, 2020, 06:54:09 PMMeanwhile trying to see if my Ace IO board is actually salvageable. If you're going to clean up after a battery leak, please do it properly. So far looking like most of the traces are there at least. No idea why you'd go to all the trouble of trying to fix traces but not clean the rest of the board properly.
Urgh. It doesn't actually take much to clean a board up, why bother trying to fix things and just leave it as a ticking time bomb for the future?
Quote from: megatron-uk on August 03, 2020, 07:52:54 PMUrgh. It doesn't actually take much to clean a board up, why bother trying to fix things and just leave it as a ticking time bomb for the future?
Looks like the tracks are actually OK, went around the lot of them and confirmed connection with IOCS. I had to dig out a lot of crap in the clock/reset area, basically stuff that should've been treated when the battery was cleaned up originally and turned to muck/rust. Amusingly the replacement battery they put in would've never worked because they didn't fix those traces.
Seems like that diode I found early on is likely to be causing some troubles, as it's connected to power signalling. Hoping that plus doing all the caps they didn't bother with will sort things out and then I can paint all the copper they've kindly left exposed.
Interesting thing is the schematics I've found (for an XVI) are pretty much identical to the ACE with the exception of what looks like the battery charging circuit, the IO chip, and sticking 2 in front of every component number. Apart from a few components here and there. Makes me wonder how exchangeable these boards are between models, at least some of the earlier ones.
I read this threat with interest while i had my odysey with my X68000 (First Modell) and my XVI.
Bought the X68000 without Keyboard and Mouse it took a while until i got these.
Built a VGA adapter and i could play some titles.
On one time i got Mouse and Keyboard adapter from 8bitly and the X68000 experience was great.
Followed by an 1mb Ram extension the fun was greater
But on that time the PSU was gone - replaced with ATX and the fun could go on.
Next i got the XVI - from beginning the PSU was faulty, replaced and tried Star Wars on both Machines with a Quickjoy with 2 cords. That blews the NEC I/O Chip - so soldering was the next step.
Then i got an Arananet scsi adapter - from that time the XVI doesnt bring any Video - the Powerplug was junk.
Between some repairs the softpower of the X68000 was faulty, can´t remember what was the problem.
So you see i got many repairs - but i didn´t do a Full recap and none of the problems was solved with new cap.
So is the low sound on the internal speaker, on the Headset or on the audio out on the back ? Could it be a blown OP Amp ?
The Problems with your drive 1: - my X68000 sometime doesn´t spin the Floppy. Seems that the motor doesn´t start. I have to shake the X68000 a little bit an it starts working.
I'm on re-capping the main board (CPU, RAM, etc) now, though there's only a couple of caps, with most of them related to the video out (which is working, so I don't believe any of those are problematic).
The big job is going to be the sub/IO board, which has at least 35 individual caps. Not looking forward to that one.
A blown op-amp is a distinct possibility, given the power supply wiring issues earlier.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you. A blown Op amp wouldn't be that bad in the context of things and shouldn't be too hard to track down at least.
Hopefully once a couple more bits arrive I can get the recap fully done, put a new diode in and see if any progress is made on my issues. Suspect I'll be working on mine for a while yet.
Argh! Just realised I'm short of a 33uF and the big 3300uF caps from the main board - I've got all of the others on the main board and sub-board at hand, but those two must have slipped from my order when I was putting it together.
The ground plane on this Pro main board sucks up a hell of a lot of heat from my desoldering gun, I've had to turn it up to 385'c to get some of those cap legs to move.
Also the op-amp on the sub-board is labelled as a "2073D JRC", a fairly cheap IC (£2-ish)... there's plenty on Ebay, so I may as well pick one of them up.
The only other thing I was considering was whether to replace the volume pot - it's clearly worn, so it might be sensible to do it at the same time... it seems to be an Alps 103B according to the numbering on the part itself. Anyone know an alternative?
Ok, so except C44 and C56 (the two missing parts I don't have), the main board is now done.
img_1696.jpg
(ignore the 'rust' in the memory expansion socket... it's not really there, I think it's just an artifact of the lighting)
I think that's probably enough for today. I'll start on the sub-board tomorrow.
Main board complete - including the missing caps from yesterday (overnight delivery from Farnell).
I've got the sub-board/IO-board lined up to do next, but I thought I'd take a look at the floppy drives... and as usual with the Pro, they're entirely different again.
The drives in my machine are actually TEAC FD-55GFR units which can be found (slightly modified - no motorised eject) in PC's and other machines.
Of course there's no info on these, so I had to do my own capacitor list again
Number Location Capacitance Voltage Notes
C1 Edge connector board ??? ??? This is populated, but the cap seems to not have any ratings printed on it!
C2 Edge connector board 22uF 10v
C3 Edge connector board 100uF 10v
C4 Edge connector board 10uF 25v
C23 Edge connector board 6.8uF 50v
C24 Edge connector board Not fitted Not fitted
C25 Edge connector board 6.8uF 50v
C26 Edge connector board Not fitted Not fitted
C54 Motorised eject board 22uF 25v The only cap on the board.
There's also the motor/spindle board itself, but it looks significantly more complex to take apart than the other drive types in the wiki.
Caps on the drive spindle/motor board are:
C101: 22uF, 16V
C107: 0.47uF, 50v
There are also a couple of ceramic caps, 2 on the edge connector PCB (C11 & C12, two of: SR 104M 12v), and 1 on the motor board (C104, labelled as 16X 100M).
I'm unfamiliar with ceramics and their labelling, so I'm not sure what these are equivalent to.
Normally wouldn't bother replacing anything other than electrolytics, unless they are specifically broken.
That said if you insist, the 104 means 0.1uF (u as in micro, don't know how to do that symbol.) M means +- 20%
100 is 10pF.
The 16X doesn't mean anything to me.
Ok, will leave the ceramics for now.
While I'm on I've ordered a pair of replacement MC3403P op-amps ic's (I suppose one is for the front panel connector and one for the rear) and the 2073D amplifier chip (guessing this is the case speaker). I'll probably fit them in DIP sockets to make any future replacement easier.
Other than the audio, the main thing that is bothering me is the keyboard. Is there a specific keyboard IC, or is it rolled up in to some combined controller like the MC68901?
Also, 27 caps left to replace on the sub-board. Although I've got a good rhythm and technique going now (snip the cap off, straighten the remaining legs, flip board over, heat and straighten the leg not on the ground plane, heat and re-solder the leg on the ground plane, go back to the first leg, heat and suck... repeat until clear, moving between caps if one proves troublesome), so I'm doing 4 or 5 at a time.
Okay, so tracing it out, and comparing to the original X68000 schematics, the keyboard seems to be connected as follows:
IC29
IC25
IC31
IC7
On the pro, the equivalent appears to be:
IC229
IC225
IC231
IC234
If it's any of the first three at fault, then that's easy to resolve - they're all standard 74-logic ic's. However IC7/IC234 is a custom Sharp peripheral controller chip (LH8530AP). So it's unlikely to be easy to replace.
kb.png
thats a zilog z8530 SCC
For the Pro I'd check whether the CZ-634-TN/CZ-644-TN schematics are any closer. From what I've read, the biggest changes happened from the OG X68000 to the ACE, after that they were more minor changes. I know the Pro is somewhat of an exception in some ways so see which works best for you.
At the point you're at I'd be looking to check for signals using an oscilloscope or logic probe starting from the connector and working my way back. I'm guessing you don't have either though?
Was the keyboard plugged in while you had the voltages switched around? If it was, check that first as it would've been affected too.
What I'd do assuming you have no probe or scope is start with the more easily obtainable/replaceable parts in the area. Looks like an LS08, LS244, if you see anything smaller like a transistor on the way to those, might want to change that first, but it looks like most things on that line are connected almost straight to VCC2 (5VSB) which I'm guessing was being fed 12V instead of 5V?
All this will be easier if you have some way to check the inputs/outputs on these chips for logic levels at least.
You may want to socket these while you are replacing them too. Compared to pulling out caps, or anything with only two or three legs, cleanly getting out a chip with several pins can be pretty difficult. The X68000 boards seem quite resilient so far (compared to some other boards of similar vintage I've worked on) and they appear to be using nice old lead solder so hopefully manageable for you.
The SCC is fed from VCC1(5V) as well it appears, so on a different rail. Mind you that looks to be the same rail those caps that blew are on, so you never know. It's a pretty standard chip at least.
I would still say hold off until you've got the replacement caps in at least.
And double check what I've said, as I don't have a Pro so guessing off the wrong schematics.
No, no oscilloscope or logic analyzer.
I'm not planning on doing anything else until I fully complete the entire recap of all the boards and replace the audio amps... it is pretty handy though that most of the components on the boards are through-hole, there's only 10 chips in the entire system that are surface mount (mostly the custom Sharp units).
Since it actually turns on, runs and plays games, and has (quiet) audio, I'm really hoping that there's not much more wrong. Nothing other than the main board and sub-board and front panel power board were connecting during the power test earlier, so the IO riser and cards, keyboard dongle + keyboard, memory upgrade module, floppies etc would not have been subjected to the incorrect voltage.
My ACE is working to some extent too, although I've found some more damaged components around the soft power area (eg. resistor with a leg fallen off) the thing would still turn on, show picture, etc. Main problem with it is to do with the floppy drive handling but the problem there is on the IO board and nothing to do with the drives.
It seems like they can take a bit of punishment anyway given how messed up the IO board on mine is, it's still almost working normally.
Once the caps are done if the keyboard still doesn't respond double check the voltages are coming through where they should, check for any other small components around that look like they may have suffered, then get ready for some un-fun times.. I'd recommend getting a logic probe at least as they aren't that expensive and it could save you a lot of time and messing about. You could easily spend more unnecessarily replacing components instead.
Progress so far on audio section of the sub-board:
img_1710.jpg
Done about half the caps on this board, there's about another 15 or 16 to go. Got the two MC3403P op-amps desoldered and DIP14 sockets fitted in their place, also got the 2073D amplifier chip removed,
but I'm waiting for a DIP8 socket to arrive for that one.
The op-amps and amplifier IC chips themselves should be here before the weekend.
I was also considering replacing the case speaker (0.5w, 8Ohm) as well, but I can't find an exact match - I'd like to put something a bit better in its place if possible, but it's difficult finding something that will be driven reasonably well be the 2073D; my guess is that anything over 1-2W is likely not to work too well with the tiny amp.
Fitted the 3 replacement audio IC's (2x MC3403P op-amps + 1x 2073D amplifier) in sockets tonight as well as a couple more caps.
img_1714.jpg
Only have 5 more caps to do and then that's all the electrolytics on the main, sub and floppy riser boards done.
Haven't done the floppy drives yet, but there's only about a dozen or so to do in total there.
I guess then we try again...
I think at last count it was something like 54 electrolytic caps on the main boards, the floppies take it up to 66-68 or thereabouts. Not something I want to do again in a hurry.
All done. Main, sub and floppy/audio riser boards all caps replaced and back into case again.
img20200806212605.jpg
I'll attack the floppy drives tomorrow night - there's a bit of a heatwave going on in the (normally gloomy) UK at the moment, and I think I deserve a cool bottle of cider after that little lot!
If anyone is interested, I've put together a complete capacitor list (main, sub, audio riser and floppy drive), as well as a complete listing of all IC's and their part numbers on the boards:
https://www.target-earth.net/wiki/doku.php?id=blog:x68000_pro_ic_list
https://www.target-earth.net/wiki/doku.php?id=blog:x68000_pro_cap_list
(Edit) Have also created pages on the wiki with the same content:
- https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:x68000_pro_capacitor_list
- https://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:cz652c_floppy_caps
So after that epic capacitor and audio IC replacement journey, what's the results?
Well, the case speaker and volume control now work decently - you can hear it without having it cranked right up, or putting your ear next to the speaker.
Motos still boots fine, and the image quality is probably a little better than before.
But the keyboard still doesn't work, and it still refuses to boot from a master disk, with the message "It was not possible to start the system, please reboot".
Have been running memtest68k and it's all looking good on the memory side of things, with the iodata 1mb module it detects and checks 2mb total, and with the xsimm10ss fitted and maxed it's detected 12mb total and is checking it now.
I don't think memory is part of any remaining issues.
Sigh...
This is going to be a pain in the ... To track down the keyboard and human68k boot issue. There's obviously some piece of hardware that human68k is checking and refusing to boot because of, but Motos and memtest68k are fine without.
Also, should Motos start and be playable with just a joystick plugged in to port 1 or 2?
I've got an old Quickshot msx joypad and it doesn't appear to do anything plugged in to either port on the machine.
Urgh, looking like this board has way more problems.
I'm starting to feel that I should just walk away from this now. I don't know where to go next and I really don't have the electronics engineering background to get myself a scope and start diagnosing signals on the board.
There's another couple of Pro's up for sale on YAJ at the moment, including a couple that are confirmed working. I'm close to calling this one a lost-cause.
Checked for power at the mouse, keyboard and joystick ports and its there (+5V and some other readings), but that's about the limit of what I can check. I'm officially out of ideas now.
The only thing I can do without buying a scope and putting myself through an electronics course is pick up another Pro and see if I can make one good system out of two. At least if something is confirmed booting all of the peripherals of mine and the first floppy drive should swap over, if needed.
This is some best guessing here and based off the wrong schematic:
Joysticks look like they go to a UPD8255AC-2 which could've died from overvoltage. You probably want to confirm there's clocks coming from the general IO chip first (because that chip doing anything will likely depend on the 4 or 5MHz clock), which is of course different on the Pro so not even sure that the pins will be the same. If the IO chip itself was dead I'd expect that disks wouldn't load at all among other things - but it could also be partially working I guess. Joysticks themselves are super simple, basically just a bunch of switches, at least in MSX/Atari spec.
Mouse and keyboard both go through a few different 74LS type chips. If they work similarly to the PS/2 protocol, there'll be a clock line that's toggled by the host and the device itself. The host pulling it low (at least for PS/2) will normally stop the device from sending. In the case of the X68000 looking at the schematics, I'm guessing this is at least in some way equivalent to the KBREADY and MSCTRL which both seem to be toggled by a couple LS08s. It looks like they are also both affected by the soft power circuits, so they are something you can check. I'd expect the keyboard to not do much if that line is stuck low or high or whatever it's meant to be on the X68000.
You don't need to study electronics to get this stuff, assuming you understand binary logic (given you can code I'm guessing you do.)
For checking say a 74LS08 you can grab a data sheet, see what the pins are supposed to do, and then measure the two input pins and then the output pin. If the output isn't performing correctly, then you know the chip is broken. An LS08 has 4 AND gates, so if both inputs are high, then the output is high. Since you know, eg. the keyboard uses 9, 10 and goes to 8, you can check those gates for correct behaviour, and probably rule out that IC as an issue. A logic probe makes this easy, stick it in TTL mode and look at the little LEDs.
The LS chips are where I'd look first, following the schematics - you go in order from cheapest/most easily obtainable to horrifying/they stopped making those in 1997. At least that's my method :P
You can at least check for voltage, you can also kind of hackily check for oscillation using a multimeter in AC voltage mode, but it probably won't work well or maybe at all and isn't really conclusive. Need to be real careful not to short anything while doing that also.
This may all be entirely fruitless of course, and there appears to be a data line that's shared between a bunch of different things, and ultimately ends at the IO chip. I can understand why you'd be reluctant to go down that road. Having some more equipment can help, but it doesn't always. I'd not rule out a scope - for the X68000 you can probably get a cheap second hand one at 20MHz, but at minimum 50MHz is probably more useful in general. Scopes have a learning curve though unfortunately, so it's not necessarily going to be that useful to you unless you want to do this sort of thing more often.
I should also mention I do have a junk Pro heading towards me too at some point, and depending on how junk it is I may be able to do some measurements for you, etc. if that can help out.
Yes Motos should start whiel pressing the button and you can play it without Keayboard and mouse.
One idea could be checking (replace) the NEC 8255 IO Chip. this controls the joypad ports.
But i don´t know if it has something to do with keyboard and mouse.
one time, i got a quicshot joyboard with 2 cables (i think for C64 Port 1&2) and i can switch to Amstrad, MSX oder Atari.
I used that board the same time one cable plugged in my Amiga the other in the X68000 and no problems.
But then i got the XVI and i used (to test Star Wars on 10/16Mhz) the board on both X68000 machines.
With that i blow that NEC IO Chip on both X68000. One got direction problems the othe didn´t do anything.
Replacing the chip fixed it.
Perhaps it is blown because of your voltage fault ? Maybe some more chips are blown.
any, hopefully good news ?
Or did you throw all out of the window ?
Ha! No I didn't throw it away, but I do have another Pro coming from Buyee that is working, at least to the point where it boots human68k and plays games.
At the very least I know I have a working PSU setup now, and a fully working drive 0 and peripherals.
Life is too short and my free time too valuable to continue on trying to diagnose this one, so I'm cutting my losses.
I appear to have a somewhat working Pro now (it boots stuff at least) if you change your mind about trying to fix yours up - can at least grab some measurements and follow accurate traces to tell you where to look. Haven't tested everything yet though, some pretty dodgy looking caps around the place and some rust, etc. Looking much better than my ACE anyway.
The two 6.8uF caps on the floppy board (C23, C25) appear to be bi-polar. This doesn't seem to be noted anywhere.
I'll keep any eye out for others.
I have to admit I didn't get around to replacing all the caps on the floppies when I found that I still had keyboard issues. Thanks for the correction on the two bipolars.. looking at my closeups of the drive boards now it's clear they don't have polarity marks on the PCB for those.
All done with mine apart from floppies as I'll hold off on those til I do another Farnell/Mouser order. They are both working and had a head clean and rail grease.
Nothing new I found on the two main boards of note, thanks for those lists you made as I did get distracted a couple times and forgot what I'd removed from where.
In the end there was a bit of cap leakage around but nothing too major. This mostly manifested in solder that didn't seem to flow well on top of the board and some residue around that needed cleaning up. I'd managed to lift a pad/trace when pulling out a cap near the soft power circuit which prevented it from powering on, didn't even notice I'd done it. Fairly easy fix with some magnet wire at least.
Still waiting on a keyboard to confirm everything (should be a couple days away), Motos at least looks good so far, joystick, sound, video, both drives work perfectly. Got a SCSI2SD and some RAM to add to it, should end up being a nice system hopefully.
I was hoping to mount the PicoPSU and adapter board within the old PSU case, but it's a bit skinny with that and the fan still in, the old power cables are a bit short too. Will see what I can figure out, may end up creating a new board to suit the Pro if I can find some more cheap ones.
The ACE has some stuff incoming, so hopefully that can be revived too.
Curious how you get on with your new Pro, let us know if you run into any trouble.
I can certainly understand the sentiment of cutting ones losses. I spent too much time and money working on two dead X68000. Both were hopeless cases with impossible to diagnose faults. Black screens on boot, with the occasional error screen if I Used my fingers to mess around with certain IC's.
Some days I think about going back to diagnosing the one I still have in my possession, but then I remember all the work I already did and give up.
My second X68000 Pro finally turned up today - it took 2 days for Buyee to process it, raise charges and send it on, then just 4 days go around the world and get through UK customs.
The parcel then sat in my local delivery depot for almost 2 weeks without anyone getting in contact to pay the import fees. I had to pester on Facebook and on their 'account holder' phone number (even though I don't have one) to be able to pay the fees and have it released.
Anyway, I'll get it opened up today and see what I'm dealing with - I'll probably end up with a frankenstein of the two systems; I know the first one now has a fully working PicoPSU system and a solid floppy drive 0, as well as quite clean case and chassis. The second one has a working drive 0, sound, video and keyboard/joystick input, but doesn't always start up.
I'm hoping I can transplant one of the drives and re-jumper it as drive 1, as well as swap one or more of the boards and get a working system (I'll try replacing the board with the IO controllers first).
.... and it has an absolutely horrendous leak from the battery, which appears to have eaten major sections of the IO board:
img20200915131102.jpg
I'm never going to catch a break with this thing, am I?
Quote from: megatron-uk on September 15, 2020, 09:02:23 PMThe parcel then sat in my local delivery depot for almost 2 weeks without anyone getting in contact to pay the import fees. I had to pester on Facebook and on their 'account holder' phone number (even though I don't have one) to be able to pay the fees and have it released.
Was it Parcelforce? Most of the time I end up calling them to get the reference number for paying the customs fees. Worst one I had the letter arrive about two weeks after I paid it.
Did it have a barrel battery in it? Either I've been mostly lucky or there's some variation between models. The last couple machines I've had now have had a lithium battery on them which is dead but hasn't leaked.
There's a fairly large ground in that area, quite a lot of stuff is connected on the other side. Worth giving it a clean at least to see how bad it is.
Yep. Parcel farce.
This one had a NiCd barrel battery. Snipped it off as soon as I saw it. The battery traces have continuity, but there's loads of tiny traces and visa to check.
Interesting that this is an earlier revision and there are some slight differences to my original system:
Cynthia chip is plastic topped PGA on my original, it's a ceramic PGA on the new one.
There's a weird resistor bodge on r70 on the new board (two resistors in parallel)
There's a huge cap near the video output stage in the new one that appears to have one leg soldered to a 74 series logic if next to the video out.
Both the above bodges appear factory.
So far the new boards haven't gotten me any further:
Old main board and new io board: no soft power, no video out
New io board and new main board: no soft power, no video out
New main board and old io board: soft power and "insert floppy" message.
I need to hook the floppy drives back and test the last combo, but in none of the above did the keyboard light up.
So both floppy drives now work (using drive 0 from the 'new' machine and drive 0 from the 'old').
Both drives will boot and play Motos.
Using the "new" motherboard and my "old" IO board I get sound and video (flickery, so the "new" mainboard clearly needs a recap).... but still no keyboard. So in that respect, it's no advantage over my recapped "old" one.
The only thing I can think of doing now is to use the "new", corroded IO board, desolder all of the IC's and fit them to the "old" one.
As of now, I'm ahead by one working floppy drive with this system... but still no working IO.
Set of DIP sockets ordered - I've got them for everything except the two 42-pin Sharp IC's (DISCO and DISCO-II).
I'll probably start with the 74-series components near the back of the board, as they seem to comprise the logic devices for IO, as well as the Z8530A chip which seems to have something to do with keyboard and serial IO. The FDD controller most likely doesn't need changing, as the system boots and plays from both disk drives fine now, I also know that the audio section is 100% as all the components and IC's have been changed (except the OKI DAC).
Got half the components removed from the corroded 'new' board so far. DIP sockets are on the way, so I'll get the remainder of the chips removed and then start taking the chips off the 'old' board.
img20200916120842.jpg
At least I'll have plenty of components to go through and check. Fingers crossed this does it. The only other thing left to do on the IO board is to replace all of the remaining passive components.
Donor board now completely depopulated:
img20200917125713.jpg
No, I'm not taking the two surface mount chips off. I don't really have anything to do that properly.. the last time I did any smt stuff was probably 15 years ago and my eyesight and hands are not as good any more!
Only broke one trace taking everything off, so I know what to expect when I tackle my 'original' board next and remove the components ready to fit the sockets.
I've transplanted all of the IC's from the new corroded board to the original one that was subject to the power issues, except:
- The OKI DAC (smt)
- The IOSC chip (smt)
- The DISCO-I and DISCO-II (fine pitch DIP, which I don't have sockets for)
Behaviour is exactly the same as before:
- No keyboard (no lights, no input detected in Motos)
- No joystick (no input detected in Motos)
- Human68k won't boot ("It was not possible to start the system. Please restart")
The same behaviour is now observed on both main boards (my original, power-spike one, and the partner of this new corroded io board).
I'm extremely wary about trying to do anything with the IOSC chip, but I'm coming to the conclusion that it's either that, or the two DISCO chips that are at fault. However, without a diagram like the other models, it's extremely difficult to be sure.
did you wrote before that no Joystick inputs are detectet ?
You should chek the 8522 IC. This is the programable I/O Chip.
This one was blown on my both X68000 when i used a quickshot joystick with 2 cords on both X68k at the same time.
So Check this Chip, on mine it was an NEC8255.
And Check the Powerplug to the Boards again. On mine there was a Contact weak
And what about the MC68901 where the traces from the Keyboard goes ?
No joystick
No keyboard
Won't boot a Human68k boot floppy (but will start [and play the attract mode of] a self-booter like Motos)
I've swapped both the 8255 and MC68901 (as well as the Z8530A) with those from the new board, as they all seem to be involved in either joystick or mouse/keyboard input in some fashion.
In fact, I've swapped every single component, except the DAC, IOSC and the two DISCO chips. The only ones I reused on the new board where those closest to the battery leak, as they were slightly discoloured. The behaviour is exactly the same as with the original IO/sub board and chips. This leads me to believe that it's either one or more of the chips that I haven't yet swapped... or it's one or more of the passive components on the board.
The reason Human68k won't boot (but Motos will) must be down to the fact that it is check for the presence of the keyboard controller or something along those lines.
Reset held on the 8255A (should be CMOS level) or maybe a clock issue? I wouldn't be willing to go any further without confirming the clocks are all present at least. Lifting the IOSC for example is doable but you'll want to invest in some good flux and I'm not sure you have any hot air equipment. Takes some practice and patience and it may not even be the cause of your issue.
eg. MC68901 (which deals with keyboard input among other things) will be driven by 4MHz most likely, but that is also related to the YM2151 so you'd expect sound issues too - may be an interrupt being held somewhere, no DTACK, etc.
Going to be a tough one unfortunately.
Yeah, I'm starting to run out of options here.
I don't have a scope nor hot-air rework tools. I can see that there are options for cheap hand-held scopes for just £20-£30 though.
I'm seeing the Hantek 6022BL for about £55, it's a USB logic probe/oscilloscope with up to 20MHz bandwidth. I like it because I can plug it straight in to the PC next to my build area and just use the onscreen functions, rather than have another box on the desk.
http://hantek.com.cn/products/detail/153
Is that sufficient to get a look at the clock signals on the X68k?
The clock can outputs 40Mhz signal, but you will probably be able to see the derived clocks.
Logic analyzer is just fast enough to see the digital signals.
It'll be good enough for what you're wanting to use it for I'm guessing. The signals you'll be looking for will be 4MHz, 5MHz and 10MHz as far as I can tell.
For actual practical purposes there's the five times rule - you want a scope than can handle minimally 5x the max frequency you intend to measure. Since you're wanting to confirm frequencies are there, not analyse the actual waveforms, it should be good enough. If you later want to use it for more complicated work, it probably won't be good enough. The logic analyser part of it might be good for other hobby work, the 2 channel oscilloscope part looks to be 20MHz.
I come from an old school of electronics, over 20 years ago, and my digital oscilloscope confuses the hell out of me :P I can't imagine trying to work it on a PC.
Thanks for the feedback guys; rather than pour loads more money in to this I'll pick up that cheap Hantek scope/analyser and see what I can find.
Oscilloscope/logic probe arrived yesterday, so my task for the weekend is to figure out how it works and try to decide where I need to check on the x68k pro.
Any tips?
When I did the same on my dead machine I started with testing frequencies generated by all crystals, and clock of each memory module.
Also check that the input voltages are stable, not containing any ripples.
In the end I didn't really help me figure out what was wrong with my machines.
If you want to get really advanced you could use logic analyzers to step through the code being executed by the CPU. That stuff was way above my level of capability, or dedication. But it can be useful to see what the CPU is actually doing when you get unexpected behavior.
Ok, sounds like a sensible way to start. Just got the device plugged in, the software installed (https://github.com/OpenHantek/OpenHantek6022) and the test signal connection seems to show it as working. All seems well.
I'm in the middle of desoldering the two DISCO chips - the last DIP components on the board, so once I've got those swapped with the ones from the newer, corroded board, I'll connect everything back up and try testing the various signals on the IO board. Not having the schematics for the Pro is still a major pain in the rear though.
Damn. Put the disco chips in dip sockets and now the thing won't power on any more: no red standby led, just flashing green and pressing the power doesn't give any video.
About ready to throw the whole lot in the bin to be honest!!!
Flashing green sounds familiar. Is it constantly resetting, perhaps?
The X68000 does that when it is shutting down, so it might be related to the soft power on/off circuit. Maybe you could circumvent those and force to power on.
Finally got round to picking this up again. I have since invested in a hot air rework station and have successfully removed PLCC 80286 processors from a couple of PC motherboards, so thought I would give this a go.
As a reminder, the only chips left on the IO board that haven't been replaced are the DAC and the IOSC - which is, funnily enough, responsible for floppy control and general IO port control and selection. It's also the one closest to those caps which blew when the incorrect power supply was fed in.
Removing the older IOSC from the donor (88 date):
IMG_1866-.JPG
Soldering on to the newer, non-battery damaged board:
IMG_1868-.JPG
Cleaned up:
IMG_1872-.JPG
I'm not ashamed to admit that this is right at the limit of my ability. I wouldn't normally try to tackle something as small as this (my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be, nor are my hands as steady), but it wasn't working anyway, so there was nothing to lose.
The change is that the system does now power on reliably, the standby and power-on light works consistently.... but.... now the floppy drives are completely dead. No seek at start, no motor, no soft insert or powered eject, nothing. I just get the 'insert floppy' on-screen message.
I've either killed the IOSC in the process of removing it, or I've got a solder bridge or short between pins somewhere.
Rechecked continuity of the IOSC chip - I'm nearly 100% certain that I haven't bridged anything.
Since the Disco chips are involved in the floppy control I had an idea to swap them back to the original (89-date coded) chips from this machine, rather than those (88-data coded) from the donor.....
IMG20210220151313-.jpg
It works!!!!
Sadly that only fixed one of the remaining problems - booting Human68k, which it has never been able to do. It always showed that "Error, please reboot".
It still does not respond to keyboard (via PS/2 adapter from Edu Arana) or (MSX) joystick input. So it's still effectively unusable.
Powered the system on this morning to try and track down the keyboard issue.... and now I get a high pitched whine when its not in standby and no audio.
I just don't understand the problems with this system. Every cap was replaced after the faulty PSU wiring was rectified. It has two different sets of audio chips. Every IC on the sub-board has been replaced or at least swapped with the donor to verify that it behaves the same (other than the Disco chips behaviour is the same).... yet there are still issues with it.
The only option I've got left now is to try the main board from the donor with this fully recapped and chip-swapped sub-board. If that doesn't work I'm going to cut my losses with this; I just can't see what else I can do to get it working.
Couple of last checks:
- 5MHz clock is present on the SCC
- 4MHz clock is present on the YM2151
There is some 'strobing' going on with the 8255, so it looks as if the CS signal is being driven by the IOSC. Why the joypad doesn't work in this case, I don't know.
I'll try looking for the 4MHz clock to the keyboard port next.
Further info:
- 4MHz clock present on the 68901 (pin 35).
Also, has anyone been able to find the circuit diagram for the Pro?
Looking at the keyboard port itself, I see the following:
x68000_kb.jpg
1 -
2 500mV logic high
3 ~400mV 'noise'
4 Some sort of signalling (see below)
5 500mV logic high
6 500mV logic high
7 500mV logic high
20210221_163429.png
I've given up trying to get this working.
Two broken X68000 Pro machines and I've only managed to get things cobbled together in 8 months or so where it can actually boot - still no input, audio has gone strange again and the amount spent on spares, tools and the like is ridiculous. I'll put the two cases and the parts on Ebay and see if I can get anything back.
In the meantime I've bought a refurbished X68000 Super with working floppy drives, cleaned case, recapped motherboard and power supply.
It wasn't cheap (probably about the same as these two Pro machines combined), but I just need to draw a line under getting these working and move on.
Yeah, the moral of the story is that when it comes to retro Japanese computers there is no easy and cheap shortcut to ownership of a playable machine. I reached the same conclusion a while back. These machines are incredibly complex and fragile. The price of a professionally refurbished fully working unit might seem exorbitant, but it is well worth it.
damn, sorry to hear that you give up, the thread is really interesting (as your blog, with coding). I was about to take the same route and buy a 'junk' system. but now, i'm really hesitating...
I think the unfortunate thing is that if it weren't for the PSU wiring it would have been an easy restoration and fix. Not that I'm blaming anyone for that information - it's just one of those things.
I wouldn't be worried about replacing a PSU though - they're easily enough swapped out with a Pico PSU.
I recommend against buying a junk system in hope of scoring an easy recap fixable X68000. I have owned 5 x68000's, one compact XVI, one OG, and three ACE models.
They all arrived broken and my repair success ratio was 3 out of 5. One of the ACE's and the OG were plagued with cryptic hardware faults leading me onto an arduous and long repair "adventure" not unlike what has been chronicled here.
Lots of money and time was wasted in the pursuit of reviving them, even after recruiting the help of my pappy, a seasoned electro technician, I finally had to give up and cut my losses.
I sold the ACE, recouping a portion of my losses, and one of the revised ACE's, my best system, which ironically enough was destroyed courtesy of the british postal system.
In summary, the odds of getting an easily fixable system is not large enough for me to recommend rolling the dice on a junk system. Besides, even the junk auctions fetch a king's ransom these days, so I say just shell out the extra Benjamins and save yourself the headaches.
I think you're right, it's a huge gamble considering the taxes and shipping involved :<
Just read through all of this. I recently joined these forums right after I got my very first sharp x68000 from YAJ. Just like the OP i too decided to take a chance on one of the "turns on but operation cannot be confirmed" units. I haven't gotten the time to get into it yet but reading this thread I am both excited and terrified. So sorry to hear of your horror story. Hope I get lucky.
Well my Super has reached the UK, so hopefully it should only be a day or two until it gets delivered.
Although this one has been refurbed I still plan on disassembly to satisfy my own curiosity that any previous damage, if it was present, has been taken care of.
I also want to fit a Pico PSU, as running with a 110v Stepdown converter is not something I want to do long term... But in the short term I'll use my PC98 Stepdown to check that it works as expected.
Fingers crossed.
Edit: Well I've just had the duty/tax notice from Fedex... they want their cut now (of course)... another >£100 for it to be released to me....
The new machine arrived today, and it's super clean:
img_1916.jpg img_1917.jpg
img_1918.jpg img_1919.jpg
I haven't fully disassembled it, but enough to verify that it has been recapped (most, if not all)... perhaps not to my standards (the caps look to have been fitted on top of the board, rather than fitting them through-hole), and it has a new coin-cell battery with no visible leakage from the previous one.
The case is very clean (well, apart from down in the middle of the carry handle area), and is virtually blemish free - the marks on the photos above are mostly from my hands.
I did also pick up a SASI/SCSI to 50pin SCSI cable and mounting sled from ClassicPC Club at the same time, but I've just realised that I'm going to have to make something to go from the 3-pin Sharp HDD cable to the standard 4-pin FDD cable that the SCSI2SD board uses.
Next up is to test it and make damn sure it is working correctly.
Then, probably most importantly... is to find somewhere for it to go... I think I've goofed up and the shelf under which it was going to go is... erm... not high enough!
yeaah congrats ;)
Well, it's good news - the new Super seems to be working perfectly.
It powers on and off okay. It will play the self-booter Motos fine, and it also boots a Master Disk v3 fine. Either floppy drive seems to work without issue.
I've got my Aranet keyboard adapter plugged in, and a Sanwa SKB-109LN Japanese PS/2 keyboard plugged in (same that I use on my PC-9821 and MSX2+) and it works as expected. I need to dig out a MSX joystick to try that, as well as a Megadrive controller (it came with a 'free' X68000 to MD 2-button adapter).
I've yet to install my SCSI2SD card, but while I'm doing that I really have to take a look at the PSU fan - it's very loud and also makes a squealling noise. I'll try and replace it with a quieter Noctua fan.
Well my MSX joystick doesn't work, but the MD adaptor and one of my old MD pads is just fine.
Wrote the Gradius II images to floppies and it all works - music out of the internal speaker is clear, loud and noise free (though tinny as you expect) and the headphone/stereo out is clear and thumping through my desktop speakers.
I'm still optimising the OSSC settings for the X68000 - I've got the sample settings about right now for a centred image that isn't cropped on either edge and scaled for my 1200 line screen, but I'm not quite there yet with the scanline settings.
img20210323212901.jpg
But, I'm
happy.
2 steps forward and 1 step back today.
Replaced the noisy PSU fan with a brand new Noctua, and it's much quieter... however, it has identified that the source of the squeal is the PSU itself, not the fan.
So, now I have to make the decision of whether to replace the PSU with a PicoPSU, or to figure out what else needs replacing on the PSU to cure this noise.
Power supply has indeed had all the (electrolytic) caps replaced, so the seller wasn't misleading me... and it does work, but clearly there's something amiss for it to squeal like this.
Any ideas which components would usually lead to high pitched noises?
Hello,
I'd focus on the coils
Quote from: kroustibat on March 25, 2021, 06:05:30 AMHello,
I'd focus on the coils
Anyone know the specs? Most of the caps and resistors are listed in the wiki - I think there's just the one coil;
L21, from what I can see.
I had a similar problem. Turned out the two big filter caps that I had replaced with ones of same spec as the failed ones were to blame. Once I replaced them with ones of higher capacitance the whining stopped.
Quote from: kamiboy on March 25, 2021, 07:33:45 PMI had a similar problem. Turned out the two big filter caps that I had replaced with ones of same spec as the failed ones were to blame. Once I replaced them with ones of higher capacitance the whining stopped.
I've got a pair of 6800uF caps on the way, based on your results. I'll try that and then if it doesn't work, look at the rest of the original components (all of the resistors I've measured are matching expected values).
99.9% chances it's not the coil,
check this answer :
https://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?msg=47084
My Super is now silent.... or should I say I have a Super-Silent? :D
Replaced the 5600uF caps at C41/C42 with 6800uF parts instead:
img20210329105003.jpg
img20210329105755.jpg
img20210329105800.jpg
So, is it any better?... well, make your own mind up:
To my ears, it's absolutely
silent!
Next steps, installing MIDI and RAM expansions:
img20210329130147.jpg
Adding SCSI2SD, cable and mounting kit:
img20210329122913.jpg
Initialising and partitioning SD card:
img20210329131753.jpg
I've added a 1000MB partition and a 6552MB partition and installed GOVERHD. It boots fine from the 1000MB volume, and I do appear to be able to access the second partition, but haven't tried putting anything on it yet.
Next step is to get SUSIE installed so that I can access my SCSI Zip drive and start to be able to shuffle content over from my PC. I didn't want to simply write one of the disk images to the card, as that's not the setup I'm going for (plus, it's a pain in the bum when it comes to adding/removing/copying anything off).
Next task; getting a SCSI Zip 250 drive working, so that I can take data back and forth to my modern computers (one of which has a Zip 100, and another a USB Zip 250).
img20210329160622.jpg
Seems simple enough. Set the Zip drive to SCSI ID 6, then:
SUSIE.X -ID6 Z:
Shows up, is browseable and I can copy data off it (which is lucky, since I don't have anything else currently available to test this SCSI Zip drive with!):
img20210329160610.jpg
I'm testing it with something relatively meaty: the entire Multimedia directory of the V4 disk image. It took a while to copy (forgot how slow these things are compared to your average low end SD card or USB flash drive!)... but it's all there. Now unpacking it (I seem to recall it being ~300MB) to the 6.5GB second partition), which may take a while!
Well, it worked. The ~150MB zip file uncompressed fine on the ~6GB second partition, and (several hours later) I had a full copy of the Multimedia/MDX folder structure.
In hindsight using an archive of approximately 14000 files was probably not the best, first test of the transfer.
So Susie and Human68k seem to be very fussy when it comes to the format of my Zip disks.
If I leave them in the pre-formatted state as supplied (I had a new, sealed box of 250MB disks I opened just for this) then they work really well (FAT16 and 8.3 filename limited, of course). If I reformat any disks (100 or 250MB) to FAT16 in Linux, then they won't read in Human68k (dir returns '0 files' and it locks up). If I (try to) reformat them in Human68k then they no longer read in Linux.
I need to do a bit more digging to find out exactly how the Iomega factory format differs - both are partition 4, FAT16, so it must be something else.
I did something similar only with MO disks, mainly because I was fascinated by the technology and had the excuse to invest in it. If you think zip drives are slow you should try MO. Snails pace does not cover it.
It is pretty neat though. Vastly inferior and more expensive to get into than, say, a simple external CF, or even zip. But to me with infinite more exotic ancient computer technology sex appeal.
For me, the appeal of the Zip drive is that it's vastly easier to ship stuff to and from the X68000 using standard FAT formatted media. I guess another AztecMonster or SCSI2SD would work for CF/SD media, but then I'd need an enclosure, wouldn't get removable media support (I'd have to reset between swapping cards etc). For as long as I've got some reliable Zip disks, this works really well... plus if I want to transfer just a couple of .X files I don't have to fire up yet another PC in order to use a 5.25" drive.
So far I've got the multimedia structure copied over, games and games2 from the V4 image.
I'm going through the mini_V2 image now and pulling out the games that are unique from that one. Hopefully I'll be able to drop those ones that don't use subst/hd2sim to the second partition. Of course, I'll add my game launcher metadata to those directories before I copy them over, just like the entire contents of the V4 image.
One issue I ran into was files with long filenames. I can't remember if I ever found a fix for it or not, but there are a few in the games folders if I remember correctly.
Yep, there are some games folders that definitely do not fit in the standard 8+3 FAT naming scheme. My Linux filesystem can handle almost all of the directories if drag-and-dropped from Disk Explorer, but there are some S-JIS filenames that get corrupted. For those, it's easier to use lha and archive them up inside Human68K itself (using the zero-compression option of lha for speed), and copy the .lha archive across in its entirety.
I know there is a FAT32/long-filename driver available, but it comes with it's own version of dir, cp, del, etc... so it's not a direct drop-in replacement.
Got the same problem while i used CDRW to transfer data to my X68000.
Quote from: megatron-uk on March 29, 2021, 11:04:22 PMI've added a 1000MB partition and a 6552MB partition and installed GOVERHD. It boots fine from the 1000MB volume, and I do appear to be able to access the second partition, but haven't tried putting anything on it yet.
I'm pretty sure the partition limit is 2GB with GROVERHD. You may find that you start getting file corruption if you store more than that on the 6GB partition.
It is for this reason I limited myself to 3GB. 1GB (1000mb) - 1st partition, 2GB (2000mb) - second partition. I've had no problems.
Your system is coming along nicely :-)