Hello all,any know about the capacitor from x68000 compact diskdrive ?is 6.3uf 47v? or 47 uf 6.3v?and is electrolytic ¿right?,i want replace all capacitors for fix sound amplification problems and problem with DF0,thanks in advance :D.
Quote from: gillianx68000 on April 28, 2011, 02:40:27 AM
Hello all,any know about the capacitor from x68000 compact diskdrive ?is 6.3uf 47v? or 47 uf 6.3v?and is electrolytic ¿right?,i want replace all capacitors for fix sound amplification problems and problem with DF0,thanks in advance :D.
Hi, on the X68000XVI Compact floppy PCB there are:
- x1 47uf 6.3 Volt electrolytic capacitors
- x3 10uf 10 Volt electrolytic capacitors
I suggest you to replace with LOW ESR electrolytic capacitors.
Thank you very much,I was hoping that the only disk drive capacitor which was visible from outside...I have to open the floppy disk drives :'(
Quote from: gillianx68000 on April 29, 2011, 10:26:27 PM
Thank you very much,I was hoping that the only disk drive capacitor which was visible from outside...I have to open the floppy disk drives :'(
Yes, you have to open them but beware: it's not an easy task, there is the risk to break some small wires or flat cables (like in my case), you have to be very gentle!
Thank you very much for the advice!,I will not touch "FEAR" :'(,i change all the capacitors on the PCB, and the only capacitor can i see on the disksdrives...,at least that job is easy, i do before on my XVI with a succes,thanks again.
Quote from: gillianx68000 on April 30, 2011, 07:31:42 AM
i change all the capacitors on the PCB, and the only capacitor can i see on the disksdrives..., .
So you will not open the floppy drives?Will you change all capacitos on X68000 CompactXVI motherboard?What is the only capacitor you can see on floppy disk?I made these question, maybe we have two different hardware revision.
Quote from: caius on April 30, 2011, 05:19:06 PM
Quote from: gillianx68000 on April 30, 2011, 07:31:42 AM
i change all the capacitors on the PCB, and the only capacitor can i see on the disksdrives..., .
So you will not open the floppy drives?Will you change all capacitos on X68000 CompactXVI motherboard?What is the only capacitor you can see on floppy disk?I made these question, maybe we have two different hardware revision.
Hello,I hope to get it, I've done before in my X68K Cz600 and X68K XVI, but these capacitors are different,can not unsolder from below the PCB,in my compact floppy diskdrives you can see just one capacitor from outside,just one,the capacitor from my first question "6.3uf 47v or be 47 uf 6.3v"is really small,is really close to the connector flat cable,monday i do some photos,thank you very much for help Wink.
Quote from: gillianx68000 on April 30, 2011, 07:31:42 AM
Hello,I hope to get it, I've done before in my X68K Cz600 and X68K XVI, but these capacitors are different,can not unsolder from below the PCB,in my compact floppy diskdrives you can see just one capacitor from outside,just one,the capacitor from my first question "6.3uf 47v or be 47 uf 6.3v"is really small,is really close to the connector flat cable,monday i do some photos,thank you very much for help Wink.
Yes, I understood the capacitor you are refering to (I have already done this operation in my CompactXVI), it's a 47uf 6.3V but if you disassemle floppy drive you will find another 3 capacitors 10uf 10V
yeah, i understood, but now im really afraid for open the floppydiskdrives,I have fear of breaking...,thanks for the advice """risk to break some small wires or flat cables"""
Quote from: gillianx68000 on May 01, 2011, 04:09:00 AM
yeah, i understood, but now im really afraid for open the floppydiskdrives,I have fear of breaking...,thanks for the advice """risk to break some small wires or flat cables"""
Yes, sadly this is the risk.
Hi all,the replacement of the PCB capacitors is done,and from a disk drive too,45 minuts just for open the disk drive,5 short cables really annoying but success ;D,now just i need do with the other disk drive...,thanks caius for advices!
Quote from: gillianx68000 on May 03, 2011, 08:38:52 PM
Hi all,the replacement of the PCB capacitors is done,and from a disk drive too,45 minuts just for open the disk drive,5 short cables really annoying but success ;D,now just i need do with the other disk drive...,thanks caius for advices!
It wa my pleasure..yes, there some short wires which you need to connrct to pin headers.Just for curitosity what manifacturer of capacitors did you use for floppy drive replacement?Does the floppy drive work now with the new capacitors?
Quote from: caius on May 04, 2011, 08:56:01 AM
Quote from: gillianx68000 on May 03, 2011, 08:38:52 PM
Hi all,the replacement of the PCB capacitors is done,and from a disk drive too,45 minuts just for open the disk drive,5 short cables really annoying but success ;D,now just i need do with the other disk drive...,thanks caius for advices!
It wa my pleasure..yes, there some short wires which you need to connrct to pin headers.Just for curitosity what manifacturer of capacitors did you use for floppy drive replacement?Does the floppy drive work now with the new capacitors?
hello,i dont know what manufacturer...but i could not find 10uF 10V i use 10uf 25V equivalent...,for now 2 disk drives works like never,really great!
Check out:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/How-to-Identify-Japanese-Electrolytic-Capacitors/595 (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/How-to-Identify-Japanese-Electrolytic-Capacitors/595)
IMHO only the best capacitor manufacturers have audio grade capacitors so it will help you to narrow down your search. My personal favourite brand is Nichicon, but they are expensive and hard to find. Ask for high impedence capacitors if you want to have the best of the best.
http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/index.html (http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/index.html)
And now some propaganda:
#134 - Question/Answer: Japanese Capacitors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAiK6FF6vr0#ws)
Eidis
Quote from: eidis on May 06, 2011, 04:40:47 AM
Check out:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/How-to-Identify-Japanese-Electrolytic-Capacitors/595 (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/How-to-Identify-Japanese-Electrolytic-Capacitors/595)
IMHO only the best capacitor manufacturers have audio grade capacitors so it will help you to narrow down your search. My personal favourite brand is Nichicon, but they are expensive and hard to find. Ask for high impedence capacitors if you want to have the best of the best.
http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/index.html (http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/index.html)
And now some propaganda:
#134 - Question/Answer: Japanese Capacitors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAiK6FF6vr0#ws)
Eidis
Hello,cool thanx for the advice,sadly yesterday the DF1 of my compact DIE,i dont understend 2 days working like never before and POOOW DIE..., ???,now just spit out the disks...,the fault of hydlide 3 special version "just kidding"this is the last game as reading,the DFO works perfect with the same new capacitors,so I think is not blame of capacitors or My handling...,and i reviewed all again and again...and all is ok...just dont work,I still have my others x68000 but this is my only COMPACT and now just have one drive,thanks for all help guys best x68k forum!
Are you absolutely sure that you soldered the new capacitors using the same polarity ? Check it and if you have accidentally messed it up, replace the capacitors once again only this time solder them using correct polarity and just maybe your drive will work once again.
Eidis
Quote from: gillianx68000 on May 06, 2011, 05:15:48 AM
Quote from: eidis on May 06, 2011, 04:40:47 AM
Check out:
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/How-to-Identify-Japanese-Electrolytic-Capacitors/595 (http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/How-to-Identify-Japanese-Electrolytic-Capacitors/595)
IMHO only the best capacitor manufacturers have audio grade capacitors so it will help you to narrow down your search. My personal favourite brand is Nichicon, but they are expensive and hard to find. Ask for high impedence capacitors if you want to have the best of the best.
http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/index.html (http://www.nichicon.co.jp/english/index.html)
And now some propaganda:
#134 - Question/Answer: Japanese Capacitors (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAiK6FF6vr0#ws)
Eidis
Hello,cool thanx for the advice,sadly yesterday the DF1 of my compact DIE,i dont understend 2 days working like never before and POOOW DIE..., ???,now just spit out the disks...,the fault of hydlide 3 special version "just kidding"this is the last game as reading,the DFO works perfect with the same new capacitors,so I think is not blame of capacitors or My handling...,and i reviewed all again and again...and all is ok...just dont work,I still have my others x68000 but this is my only COMPACT and now just have one drive,thanks for all help guys best x68k forum!
Simple advice.
Replace the capacitors on the mainboard. All of them. Don't miss a thing.
Then everything will be fine including your FDD.
You can see leaking from the chip aluminum caps on the board.
Like this
(http://pds20.egloos.com/pds/201105/06/28/e0013828_4dc351ba096f5.jpg)
See? And you can smell it,too.
This is a picture of expansion slot part, but conditon on the mother board side is not different.
Your caps are bleeding... ;D and some of those are vitally concerned with woking of FDD.
It is not a prediction or armchair argument.
I have compact model and they worked just like yours and after replacing all of caps....and what? Peace came to me again. ;)
Tantalum capacitor is way expensive but good for durability.
Good luck.
Hello,Eidis the floppy stopped working after being mounted and checked,two days working whitout problems...,I really appreciate your help thanks.
netwalka the DF0 work in the df1 connector...and DF1 dont work in any connector,I mean DF0 works in any connector...so is not a PCB problem...¿seems logical?I really really appreciate your help thanks,and if my reasoning is stupid please tell me and i try open again the computer,thanks again guys.
Quote from: gillianx68000 on May 07, 2011, 06:59:54 AM
Hello,Eidis the floppy stopped working after being mounted and checked,two days working whitout problems...,I really appreciate your help thanks.
netwalka the DF0 work in the df1 connector...and DF1 dont work in any connector,I mean DF0 works in any connector...so is not a PCB problem...¿seems logical?I really really appreciate your help thanks,and if my reasoning is stupid please tell me and i try open again the computer,thanks again guys.
It's not a motherbord problem, the problem is that these Compact floppy drive are very fragile, personally I screwed up both mine only opening them and chancing the capacitors.
Quote from: caius on May 08, 2011, 02:01:59 AM
Quote from: gillianx68000 on May 07, 2011, 06:59:54 AM
Hello,Eidis the floppy stopped working after being mounted and checked,two days working whitout problems...,I really appreciate your help thanks.
netwalka the DF0 work in the df1 connector...and DF1 dont work in any connector,I mean DF0 works in any connector...so is not a PCB problem...¿seems logical?I really really appreciate your help thanks,and if my reasoning is stupid please tell me and i try open again the computer,thanks again guys.
It's not a motherbord problem, the problem is that these Compact floppy drive are very fragile, personally I screwed up both mine only opening them and chancing the capacitors.
Hello,yeah caius sure,but thanks to you advice...when i opened my DF0 and DF1 i have no problem because i take in mind"BE CAREFULL WITH FLAT CABLES",i do all operations whit no problems...SLOW really SLOW but whit no problems...,all is OK the flat cables the capacitors polarity,and more details "the disk spins but the head does not move and in few seconds spit the disk",The strangest thing for me is that after working in the floppy worked perfectly,thank you very much.
Quote from: gillianx68000 on May 07, 2011, 06:59:54 AM
Hello,Eidis the floppy stopped working after being mounted and checked,two days working whitout problems...,I really appreciate your help thanks.
netwalka the DF0 work in the df1 connector...and DF1 dont work in any connector,I mean DF0 works in any connector...so is not a PCB problem...¿seems logical?I really really appreciate your help thanks,and if my reasoning is stupid please tell me and i try open again the computer,thanks again guys.
Hello, gillianx68000.
Your idea is logical enough.
But, actally, when I noticed the malfuction of FDD, I didn't replace the Caps on the FDD.
First, I replaced every Caps on the mainboard and then everything went fine.
FDD works perfect now.
That's the only difference between your situation and mine.
That could be it. While you're at it, replace the capacitors in PSU as well. Those things can get very fragile with time.
Eidis
I can say more: after breaking both mine C0mpact floppy drives I managed to find another two floppy drives and these now work very well so for me it's not a motherboard problem.IMHO the problem is the floppy pcb,: in particular the traces , they are very tiny and fragile, it's easy to break them while desoldering.Other problem is the correct alignement of the upper and lower heads, Eids can say more about it.
Quote from: caius on May 08, 2011, 09:26:59 PM
I can say more: after breaking both mine C0mpact floppy drives I managed to find another two floppy drives and these now work very well so for me it's not a motherboard problem.IMHO the problem is the floppy pcb,: in particular the traces , they are very tiny and fragile, it's easy to break them while desoldering.Other problem is the correct alignement of the upper and lower heads, Eids can say more about it.
Mr. Caius,
Are your new FDD exactly same to Compact model's FDD? I mean those have auto eject function?
I guess your new FDD doesn't have that function. You sent your new FDD's pictures to me for check and it had a normal push button like a PC FDD.
Even though those FDDs work well as you say, I guess it doesn't guarantee the good working of auto eject function.
gillianx68000's problem is that his FDD throw up disks just after disk is inserted.
It may be a mere prediction but I think the auto exect function is related to some of the mainboard's caps .
'Cause, like I said above, I experienced replacing caps on the mobo prevents that "puke".
I didn't touch any of the FDD's inside.
¿Is possible use PC FDD disk drive in x68000 compact?please tell me what model OMG this is a good new!,for me the "auto puke eject function" is not important >:( well now i hate :D,netwalka the truth is the capacitors PCB change First thing I started doing,for fix the sound amplification problems,remove some capacitors was HELL,but is done...,anyway thanks again,my humble opinion is the motor on FDD is pass away...
Eidis about the capacitors from PSU...i think is a good idea and more easy than remove the SMD from PCB...maybe with the time i add a PC PSU like in my X68KXVI.
I have a silly question. Did you try to clean drive heads ?
Eidis
Quote from: eidis on May 09, 2011, 01:09:09 AM
I have a silly question. Did you try to clean drive heads ?
Eidis
yeah i have one 3.5 disk drive head cleaning kit,buy it on ebay :D,and the several dust from others parts of the drive i use ears sticks with the same cleaner liquid,but of this a few weeks ago,The breakdown came later,I really appreciate the help thanks.
Quote from: netwalka on May 08, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
Mr. Caius,
Are your new FDD exactly same to Compact model's FDD? I mean those have auto eject function?
I guess your new FDD doesn't have that function. You sent your new FDD's pictures to me for check and it had a normal push button like a PC FDD.
Even though those FDDs work well as you say, I guess it doesn't guarantee the good working of auto eject function.
Yes, I bought another two Compact floppy drives and they are
exactly like the broken ones.The one you are referring to was a pc floppy drive which I found it has some parts in common with the Compact one.
I never replaced any capacitors on the mainboard.
Quote from: netwalka on May 08, 2011, 10:17:05 PM
gillianx68000's problem is that his FDD throw up disks just after disk is inserted.
It may be a mere prediction but I think the auto exect function is related to some of the mainboard's caps .
'Cause, like I said above, I experienced replacing caps on the mobo prevents that "puke".
I didn't touch any of the FDD's inside.
I made some swaps between the new and the broken Compact floppy: with the assembly of the new floppy drive and the PCB of the broken one the result is that disks are correctly read but auto-eject doesn't work.Instead, with the assembly of the broken drive and the PCB of the new one the result is that disk are not read but auto-eject work fine.So conclusion is that no auto-eject depends from bad pcb (capacitors mainly) and no reading depends from bad assembly (heads mainly)
Quote from: caius on May 09, 2011, 04:08:21 AM
Yes, I bought another two Compact floppy drives and they are exactly like the broken ones.The one you are referring to was a pc floppy drive which I found it has some parts in common with the Compact one.
I never replaced any capacitors on the mainboard.
Another 2 FDDs~!! Wow, you spent more than I know :o
Could you tell me how much cash did you spend to get your Compact model and to make your compact's FDD working neatly...
If I know the price, I
"may" help you more than I did till now. ;D
Quote from: netwalka on May 09, 2011, 07:54:51 AM
Another 2 FDDs~!! Wow, you spent more than I know :o
Could you tell me how much cash did you spend to get your Compact model and to make your compact's FDD working neatly...
If I know the price, I "may" help you more than I did till now. ;D
Yes, I spent a lot of money for those two Compact FDDs, I found an ebay seller who sold some working CompactXVI models and I convinced him to take apart two FDDs from one of these.If I remeber well I spent 130$ for the two FDDs...almost as my Compact model... :'(
Quote from: caius on May 09, 2011, 07:20:13 PM
Yes, I spent a lot of money for those two Compact FDDs, I found an ebay seller who sold some working CompactXVI models and I convinced him to take apart two FDDs from one of these.If I remeber well I spent 130$ for the two FDDs...almost as my Compact model... :'(
You'd better utilize your special Compact model as much as it gets.
How about pick it as your tomb furnishings later? ;D
Quote from: caius on April 28, 2011, 05:42:09 PM
Quote from: gillianx68000 on April 28, 2011, 02:40:27 AM
Hello all,any know about the capacitor from x68000 compact diskdrive ?is 6.3uf 47v? or 47 uf 6.3v?and is electrolytic ¿right?,i want replace all capacitors for fix sound amplification problems and problem with DF0,thanks in advance :D.
Hi, on the X68000XVI Compact floppy PCB there are:
- x1 47uf 6.3 Volt electrolytic capacitors
- x3 10uf 10 Volt electrolytic capacitors
I suggest you to replace with LOW ESR electrolytic capacitors.
Since those are needed to suppress spikes while motors moving, my suggestion is replacing them with LOW ESR ceramics X5R or X7R (size 0805/2012), same ratings.
the filtering action will be even better and no more leakage.
Quote from: kinmami on June 10, 2012, 11:09:54 AM
Since those are needed to suppress spikes while motors moving, my suggestion is replacing them with LOW ESR ceramics X5R or X7R (size 0805/2012), same ratings.
the filtering action will be even better and no more leakage.
Hi,
did you succesfully replaced original polarized electrolytic capacitors with ceramic non polarized ones? Where is possible to buy them?
Quote from: caius on June 10, 2012, 05:10:21 PM
Quote from: kinmami on June 10, 2012, 11:09:54 AM
Since those are needed to suppress spikes while motors moving, my suggestion is replacing them with LOW ESR ceramics X5R or X7R (size 0805/2012), same ratings.
the filtering action will be even better and no more leakage.
Hi,
did you succesfully replaced original polarized electrolytic capacitors with ceramic non polarized ones? Where is possible to buy them?
yes I did it
you can buy ceramics on ebay or in any RS shop
I suggest MURATA part, X5R or X7R (size 0805/2012) 10uF 10V and 47uF 6.3V
Hi Kinmami,
Sorry, I have doubts about your suggestion...
For such high rated decoupling caps, I've seen electrolytic, tantalum or OSCON one, but never ceramic. I'm wondering why we can use one here ?
In fact, I've never seen one anywhere !
My doubts are on the package size and its impedance, so the frequency range it will operate on (if those are really for bypassing !)
And also about leakage, always heard that ceramic have higher than tantalum or OSCON ones.
So, can you explain me more why choosing those ?
Thanks !
Hi Lydux,
I have doubts , too.There will be a reason If Sharp engineers used electrolytic capacitors instead of others...This is why I asked Kinmami about...
Hi Caius,
I'm not sure when >1uf ceramic smd caps were introduced. But that's probably recent.
Could be why Sharp does not use them (they does not exist at all in these era).
But even nowadays, I've never seen them in newer design.
Kinmami suggestion is valuable, and will work. I agree.
I'm just wondering if in long term, it could not cause more problems than fixing...
And what about the fact that ceramic capacitors are non polarized?What will be the mounting direction on the PCB if this has been designed for polarized ones?
Polarization is a limitation caused by the dielectric, not a wanted behavior. So, it doesn't matter.
Quote from: lydux on June 10, 2012, 11:22:24 PM
Polarization is a limitation caused by the dielectric, not a wanted behavior. So, it doesn't matter.
Here's a chart for any who are curious:
(http://i905.photobucket.com/albums/ac253/bmcdanold/x68k/68k_com_FDD_Chart.jpg)
Quote from: lydux on June 10, 2012, 11:22:24 PM
Polarization is a limitation caused by the dielectric, not a wanted behavior. So, it doesn't matter.
correct
Quote from: lydux on June 10, 2012, 10:55:16 PM
Hi Caius,
I'm not sure when >1uf ceramic smd caps were introduced. But that's probably recent.
Could be why Sharp does not use them (they does not exist at all in these era).
But even nowadays, I've never seen them in newer design.
Kinmami suggestion is valuable, and will work. I agree.
I'm just wondering if in long term, it could not cause more problems than fixing...
ceramics are largely used in mobile and portable devices nowdays because of own reliability and durability.
X5r or X7R series can support from -50C to +85C, at 1MHz with low loss.