snes RGB 220 caps, AND resistors?

[skforty]

Hello everyone,

I did the snes RGB mod, and it looks great.  But i recently hooked a PC with ARCADEVGA card upto the same monitor, correct resolution and emulated snes onto it.  The emulated snes from PC did look a bit sharper than the real snes.  I understand there are a BILLION variables in the comparison that i did, however, even my saturn and genesis look a bit sharper than my snes, so im wondering about it.  When i did the mod, i did not put resistors in series on RGB.  Ive seen some people say i should/shouldnt.   Is this necessary?  How does adding resistors affect the picture?   The picture i get from snes is VERY colorful and the bright, not too much so, but more than my other systems, and im wondering if its the brightness thats affecting the sharpness a bit.  And im guessing adding resistors would darken the image a bit, maybe helping out the sharpness?

Im just guessing....looking for advice, any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Jibbajaba]

I don't have any advice to offer you, but I agree that the SNES seems to give the least sharp RGB picture.  Just like yours, mine has caps but no resistors.

Chris

[albino_vulpix]

Is it PAL or NTSC? Original model or 2nd?

[skforty]

ntsc original model.

[RGB32E]

Yes, the picture from the SNES (including RGB and all models) is softer than many other systems.  The softness of the signal is the same between the original model, revised model (no cart log mech), and modded SNES 2.  It's just how the SNES is.   

Adding resistors will not sharpen the picture. 

The whole point of the series capacitors on RGB is to remove the DC voltage that is present on the signals.  Without capacitors, the signal is extremely bright, as I believe the DC voltage effectively sets the black level (really high without capacitors to remove the DC).

However, if you wanted to get a sharper picture, pick up an Extron RGB interface off of ebay.  Most of these have "peaking" control.  The peaking control is like a sharpness setting for RGB, which you could use to sharpen the signal.

[tsenzen]

However, if you wanted to get a sharper picture, pick up an Extron RGB interface off of ebay.  Most of these have "peaking" control.  The peaking control is like a sharpness setting for RGB, which you could use to sharpen the signal.

do you actually own one of these? if so, can you show a side by side comparison of the snes rgb image using this device?

[RGB32E]

do you actually own one of these? if so, can you show a side by side comparison of the snes rgb image using this device?

I actually own a number of Extron units  :
-RGB 130xi
-RGB 202xi
-RGB 190F
-PA 250
-VSS 100
-System 4 LDex
-System 4 LQex
-MLS506MA
-QSD 204
-SW 6SV

Wow...  looks like I need to trim my "collection"...

I've attached an example of the peaking functionality on the snes using the PA 250 (RGB190F in next post).

[RGB32E]

RGB190F:

[tsenzen]

thnx for the image

that is definitly much sharper compared to standard RGB signals ive dealt with from snes RGB,

hmm interesting, during gameplay, does the image feel completely genuine, or does it have some form of interpolation? i understand the image sharpening is done through hardware, but usually there are some drawbacks to such piggy backing. not sure if this is a valid question, just wondering.

I managed to worked on my console to jamma device, and got the snes image surprisingly clear on my astro city:

[RGB32E]

thnx for the image

that is definitly much sharper compared to standard RGB signals ive dealt with from snes RGB,

Yeah, I don't mind the softer RGB output from the SNES... as long as each pixel is clearly defined!

hmm interesting, during gameplay, does the image feel completely genuine, or does it have some form of interpolation? i understand the image sharpening is done through hardware, but usually there are some drawbacks to such piggy backing. not sure if this is a valid question, just wondering.

Yeah, the Extron RGB interfaces (and PA, ect) are appear to be analog circuits, so no frame rate conversion or digitization (RGB atleast).  So, no interpolation, just circuits to amplify RGB and sync processing.  The QSD 204 (format converter) does have ADC and doesn't accept low rez signals... but that's a different story all together.

I managed to worked on my console to jamma device, and got the snes image surprisingly clear on my astro city:

Good job!  Looks fun! 

[Fudoh]

Did you ever actually test the RGB202 on a 15khz RGB signal. Sometime last year I had a 202 at home, but for whatever reason never managed to get a signal out of it with a standard videogame RGB input signal....

(PS: RGB32E -> your PM inbox is full, so I can't reply with the XRGB infos....)

EDIT: my bad, re-checked, it was a RGB302 unit...

[RGB32E]

Did you ever actually test the RGB202 on a 15khz RGB signal. Sometime last year I had a 202 at home, but for whatever reason never managed to get a signal out of it with a standard videogame RGB input signal....

(PS: RGB32E -> your PM inbox is full, so I can't reply with the XRGB infos....)

EDIT: my bad, re-checked, it was a RGB302 unit...

Yes, I've tested 15.75kHz RGB on all of the Extron interfaces I own.  For some units, the dipswitches have to be adjusted.  Also, unless the specific device is intended for sync stripping (e.g. VSS-100), the units will not accept composite video as composite sync.  Perhaps you were feeding composite video instead of composite sync to your RGB302, resulting in no usable output (sync wasn't stripped from composite video)?

@Lawrence.... Increase my mailbox SIZE!!!