Hey guys, i just got home from vacation and have finally unpackaged my junk x68k. Still new like many others, so i have a question or two. Now that my psu has been replaced, i have checked all traces and everything seems to be properly connected to the right source.
What do you guys think i should do next before i plug it in to test it?
I have yet to replace the sram battery, and that seems like the next place to go. However, i'm very eager to plug it in and try it out on the monitor i bought. Any precautions i can take to make sure the monitor doesn't take damage?
EDIT: I just realized i need a human 68k disk. could someone mail me one for cheap? Also, would this (http://www.deviceside.com/fc5025.html) allow me to write disks externally on a teac drive?
Hi Famiac !
Replace all capacitors if you want to be extremely careful. The SRAM battery can be replaced with a CR2032 in a battery holder. There have been some rare reports that LCD monitor damages one specific IC in the X68000. If that happens, it can be easily remedied. However, until now there have been no reports that monitors get damaged.
Fixing RGB output
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:fixing_rgb_output (http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:fixing_rgb_output)
The FC5025 USB 5.25" floppy controller supports only read mode. I contacted the author and at present time there are no plans of adding write support. You probably will need to build an oldskool PC for data transfers.
P.S. By the way, the EXPERT has 2Mb factory built-in RAM by default so you could get away without using switch.x. This is not confirmed. My ACE-HD defaults to 1Mb when the SRAM is cleared.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
Hey eidis, thanks for the reply. I won't try a recap immediately, but i'll do it if i encounter an issue. Do you know where i can locate the sram battery?
Also, don't i need human 68k to play games from a hard drive?
Hi Famiac !
It should be on the daughterboard which is at the very bottom of your X68000, the one which has soft power switch and audio sockets.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
Thanks eidis. Would you be able to write me a human 68k disk? I can send you a floppy to write it on.
Also, what's the easiest way to access the main board?
Hi Famiac !
The following article might help.
How to open X68000
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:how_to_open_x68000 (http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:how_to_open_x68000)
P.S. You should seriously think about a retro PC for data transfers until you set up a hard drive.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
I do have a windows 98SE all in one PC i use for FDSloadr with a 3.5 inch drive, but i'm not sure if i can hook up a 5 inch drive to it. I'll open it up and look if it has the 34 pin connector. I guess you can't write a disk in the meantime then.
Thanks again
Edit: I didn't realize the disassembly page from that japanese site was translated! Good to know.
Where are you located famiac?
I am located in Austin, Texas
Hi Famiac !
Sorry, but due to long term health problems I won't be able to assist you with the acquisition of HumanOS floppy disk. I have the time but unfortunately not the health to manage the logistics.
Windows98 machine should definitely be compatible with 5.25" floppy drive. Check the BIOS if it supports them.
There has been a lot of good feedback about TEAC-55GFR 5.25". You should probably try getting one along with a floppy cable which has 5.25" drive sockets, if your current one does not have one.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
No problem at all eidis! You're always a great help!
Edit: funny story, when i opened the right panel and removed the IO slot expander i noticed that the CPU fell out of the socket. I wonder if that's why the seller was selling this as junk haha.
Edit 2: i just found an Xellent 30S board and a a home made circuit with a switch, i wonder what it does. The seller said the switch was a toggle between 10 and 16 mhz
Hi Famiac !
Congratulations on your discovery. Could you please make quality photos of your Xellent 30S board from both sides without using the flash of the camera ? The circuit with a switch is an overclocking mod.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
Yeah it just confused me because i thought the xellent 30s board was already an overclock mod.
Edit: I'll take pictures as soon as i get back home. I had to move into my dorm today, but my house is only 40 min away from home. Is getting to the daughterboard pretty straightforward after removing the motherboard? Also, does the Xellent30s need drivers?
Edit2: i just found an xellent30s folder in the mirror of groundzero organization, so i'm not too worried about replacing sram now.
Hi Famiac !
Be prepared to take the X68000 apart completely for the name of science and you will learn everything about disassembling it. The SASI machines are very service friendly.
Xellent30s requires a SRAM driver.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
Thanks eidis. Any idea why xellent30s is installed as welll as the overclock mod? Doesn't the overclock damage the system, and should i remove it?
Also, would you like me to make a list of caps on the x68k expert?
Hi Famiac !
You inspired me to un-engrish a long overdue Wiki article.
Xellent30s CPU accelerator board
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:xellent30s_-_cpu_accelerator_board (http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:xellent30s_-_cpu_accelerator_board)
By default, Xellent starts in X68000 mode and needs a SRAM driver. That means that X68000 will use its default CPU and and not the more faster MC68EC030.
You probably know the answer to everclocking question yourself. It kills hardware, but very slowly.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
Wow thanks eidis!
Would it be safe if i just left the switch in the 10Mhz position?
Hi Famiac !
Yes.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
Anybody know the purpose of this oscillator on the daughterboard?
http://i.imgur.com/wguykZ3.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/wguykZ3.jpg)
Hi Famiac !
It looks like a part of the overclocking mod.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
There appears to be no video output and the soft power isn't working... However the floppy drives will accept my human 68k disk and eject it when i press the button so that might be good news.... What next?
Edit: i removed the exellent30s board and replaced it with just the cpu. The behavior jumped around for a bit but now i think the cpu is blown. It gets really hot and the system reacts the same with or without it. I have another system that i just tested with my new psu and it powers and shuts perfectly. However the floppy drives don't detect a thing, even though the light is blinking, and the rgb output is present but does not sync properly on the monitor. I tried messing with th adjustments on the monitor but to no avail. Also, the monitor thinks the x68000 is outputting 15khz but i thought the default was 31khz.
I feel really put down after replacing 40 capacitors in vain. Can anyone help or should i save up for a new console? I'm going to try buying a new cpu chip and socket first, as there are two sockets in the main board for the cpu but the top one broke while i was removing the chip and the one soldered in has a different style of pins
CPU is socketed right? It shouldnt be too hard to replace it. 68000 cpus are pretty common so Id guess it should be pretty cheap.
It's looking to be about $40 for a cpu and a socket. I don't know if that's cheap. Also i'll have to wait two weeks to get that. I wonder if it has any other problems :/
Edit: i will try replacing the SN74ALS05AN on the other x68000 in the meantime and see how that goes.
After replacing the als05, i got a still and clear insert floppy messag. It was thrilling. Then, after swapping floppy drives with my other x68k and closing the case, i get nothing. My power LED stays red and the fan won't spin. At some point the fan would try to spin and then i saw smoke. Something must have shorted... Now both of my x68000 are kaput and i have no idea why.
Hi Famiac !
Try to disassemble the damaged X68000 and smell the motherboard and floppy drives to determine which chip or component is bad. I have a feeling that the problem could be linked to this:
Soft-power troubleshooting and repair
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:soft_power_switch_troubleshooting_and_repair (http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:soft_power_switch_troubleshooting_and_repair)
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
I swapped capacitors between mainboards (one had new ones) and now i have one that shuts on and off normally, except when the floppy drives are connected. How could i fix that?
Edit: if i wiggle the floppy drive ribbon cable it turns off. Also, the floppy LED is red for some reason. Lastly, my other drives look very clean but fail to detect when a disk is inserted. How can i fix that?
Edit 2: Swapped the floppy data cables and now it turns on and off fine and i get the normal green light. My x68k is a true frankenstein now...
Hi Famiac !
Your culprit is probably the capacitors. Replace all (and I mean all) capacitors. This includes motherboard, sub-motherboard, PSU, the floppy drives, I/O slot riser and RGB module. You will also need to make a new DIY floppy data cable.
Full BOM for constructing a SASI cable
http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5429.msg36889#msg36889 (http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=5429.msg36889#msg36889)
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
On the (now) working x68k, both mainboard and sub board have new capacitors. I will replace those in the rgb board, IO board, and floppy drives in the coming months.
Alright... So a couple new problems. I wrote a bomberman disk, however it won't play properly, the title screen scrolls vertically as if it were out of sync, but the logo doesn't. It also won't let me select the start game option. Also, i tried to install the sxsi driver but it says "could not register" for the super scsi driver unit ver 1.02 and for the ask68k ver 3.02 sys files.
What could be wrong?
Hi Famiac !
Please post screenshots of the Bomberman. By default the SxSI driver in MasterDisk_V2 is set to search and initialize device with SCSI ID0. Try installing the SRAM driver with BOOTSET.X. It scans all ID's on every reboot and should give you a better understanding of what is going on.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
scsi cable setup: (power cable disconnected)
http://i.imgur.com/JEZt4eQ.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/JEZt4eQ.jpg)
Bomberman screenshots:
http://i.imgur.com/jXqR9VW.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/jXqR9VW.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/uLZguzs.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/uLZguzs.jpg)
http://i.imgur.com/nZLkJTt.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/nZLkJTt.jpg)
I tried to connect the scsi2sd to my computer to set scsi id, but my pc couldn't detect it. However, i was using a borrowed cheaply made cable, which i will try to remedy tomorrow. But i have no idea what's going on with bomberman.
Hi Famiac !
There were unconfirmed reports that SCSI2SD is not not compatible with SASI machines. AztecMonster was always reported as compatible. I see you have a DIY cable. Try tying all ground signals together on the IDC50 connector and see if it helps.
As for the Bomberman issue, Memtest a good place to start.
Memory Test Program v1.12
http://nfggames.com/x68000/Misc/Diagnostics/Memory%20Test%20Program%20v1.12/mtest.zip (http://nfggames.com/x68000/Misc/Diagnostics/Memory%20Test%20Program%20v1.12/mtest.zip)
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
Mtest main won't run. It says something about console driver
All other memtest checks are ok
Quote from: famiac on September 21, 2014, 04:40:27 AM
Mtest main won't run. It says something about console driver
All other memtest checks are ok
I think Eidis has taught me that one already... :)
Try
IOCS /r and then rum mtest again.
Hi Famiac !
Mtest will not work if HIOCS.X is loaded into memory. Navigate with LHES to the directory where you have copied MTEST.R and press Q key two times. It will exit LHES and unload HIOCS.X. Then you can execute mtest from the command line.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
Well i did what costa said and everything turned out ok. I'll try what you suggested now. I don't know if i have lhes on this disk. what executables and files do i need for lhes?
Scrolling sprites in argos no senshi
http://i.imgur.com/8avQFa4.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/8avQFa4.jpg)
Hi Famiac !
LHES comes bundled with every HDD image. Please ignore my previous post if you are not using a hard drive setup. Did Mtest pass all tests (TEXT, GRAPHICS, SPRITE, SYSTEM, MAIN) ?
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
Mtest did run properly, all tests were OK. Sorry for not being clear. I still haven't been able to configure the scsi2sd
Hi,
keep in mind that SCSI2SD might not work as is on SASI machines. I have one friend of mine that did this test with one Ace and on Super. Worked on Super only.
Do you have any other SCSI machine?
I tried to get one SCSI2SD this month but they are out of stock. I would be able to test on several different models and provide feedback here for all.
I will check this week to se if they have in stock already.
Quote from: famiac on September 21, 2014, 05:44:39 PM
Mtest did run properly, all tests were OK. Sorry for not being clear. I still haven't been able to configure the scsi2sd
No other scsi modules and no money either. I can sell you my scsi2sd.
My first priority is to fix the graphics problem.
I just installed my xellent30s to cheer myself up though haha. The thing is really cool
Here's a memtest pic:
http://i.imgur.com/JCXdVso.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/JCXdVso.jpg)
Hi Famiac !
Things are getting complicated. Try powering on your X68000 for about five minutes with some game running and then try touching the top of the chips and see if any of them are abnormally hot.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
Just tried. Nothing was really hot at all.
Edit: that narrows it down i think. Pretty sure there's a bad solder joint on the 74als05, since i replaced that IC. So i'm going to reflow and check for continuity next weekend then i'll update you guys.
Could one of the gates be bad? I don't see anything wrong here. I also can't find all the test points.
anybody know where i can test these pins?
http://i.imgur.com/X5okXEj.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/X5okXEj.jpg)
Quote
Could one of the gates be bad? I don't see anything wrong here. I also can't find all the test points.
Humm... There are not many gates in video parts, mostly ASICs and RAM. However, it reminds me that the GVRAM pixels output is serially controlled by first the CRTC, then fed into a TTL gate combined with a video clock signal. The resulting signal control the GVRAM pixels ouput per scanline... If you have only graphics garbages (I mean human68k text work correctly), it might be the culprit.
I don't have EXPERT motherboard on hand, only a SUPER one but I guess it's similar. Can you see a 74AS02 between the big VRAM row and CYNTHIA chip ? (noted IC1 on mine) I would suggest you to change it.
Quote
anybody know where i can test these pins?
http://i.imgur.com/X5okXEj.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/X5okXEj.jpg)
I can't see it on my schematics yet, but if I remember right, this ALS05 is related to the invertion of SYNC outputs. This is the high-end part of the video generation. Your problems look like before.
Sure thing, thanks lydux. I thought it might be the sync inverter because in bomberman the graphics are correct but they scroll
Ordered the 74as02
Replaced 74as02, still having the same problem :/
Yes sorry, I was totally wrong... I though Bomberman title background was located inside GVRAM but I checked with XM6, and it's inside the PCG RAM (controlled by CYNTHIA).
This ALS02 is only used for GVRAM rendering.
So, TVRAM and GVRAM rendering parts are ok, as well as color palette lookup.
This leave the CYNTHIA part :
(http://i.imgur.com/BVe3MEBs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/BVe3MEB)
All parallel bus signals for fetching or writing PCG RAM data from cpu, or during rendering times can be excluded, as well as the image capture unit inputs. According to your memtest and screenshots, these signals look likes all goods.
Remaining signals are clocks :
(http://i.imgur.com/B9fvFrV.jpg)
I can't beleive of an HSYNC or VSYNC signals issue anymore. These are shared lines between all video chips and would create others troubles than just with PCG.
The only remaining ones (QEC, QDC, QCC, QBC and QAC) are coming from the OSCIAN video clock generator :
(http://i.imgur.com/HL7EzWR.jpg)
Unfortunatly, I still don't know many much about it. It deals with the 69MHz and 38MHz oscillators, and produce various clock signals according to some configuration inputs like high or low horizontal frequency resolution (15KHz vs 31KHz).
Actually, I can only advise you to check for continuity on all fuse blocks (FB29 --> FB37, might be noted diffently on your board but located near OSCIAN), as well as between the 5 OSCIAN and CYNTHIA clocks lines.
Of course, OSCIAN inputs can be involved (HRES0, HRES1, FH/L, MIX and HRL)...
Few questions :
- It unclears on your screenshots, but it looks like all sprites are doubled to different horizontal positions and are a bit translucent, right ?
- As you have an original monitor, can you try with a 15KHz game ?
Thanks lydux, i'll take a look in a bit. I will test with a 15khz game first and tell you what happens
Tested in 15khz; same problem happens
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B14RXpId-XGTLTFPUlFRTjdxRFk/edit?usp=docslist_api
Checked all fuses. All OK for continuity
Connections between OSCIAN and CYNTHIA are checked and OK for continuity
Ok, thanks for posting a video ! I can better see the problem. I were not able to understand the Argos no Senshi garbages, it's clear now !
I tried to load Puyo Puyo in XM6, stopping emulation during attract screen and give a look into the PCG RAM content :
(http://i.imgur.com/iNHWhxJ.jpg)
This is exactly garbages that appears on your screen !
That means CYNTHIA keeps fetching the whole PCG RAM during rendering instead of lookup against it according to the sprite buffer content.
But it also does the right stuff as I can see the brown joystick and the blue button appearing in your video at the correct horizontal position. This excess of work might explain the scrolling.
The question now is why does it do this ?...
Investigating...
Lydux, i appreciate your work so very much. If you collect games i'd like to send you a gift for your time.
Alright guys, while i patiently wait for some word from lydux, i'm thinking maybe we can fix the other motherboard i have sitting around. It is fully recapped, however when i power the system on, i can no longer turn it off with the soft power switch, the floppy drives accept disks and eject them on demand but do not read them, afaik there is no video out, and when i try to turn off the console with the power switch on the front, only the green led turns off/on depending on the power switch position, the fan keeps spinning.
Hi Famiac !
Please have a look at the following article:
Soft-Power troubleshooting and repair
http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:soft_power_switch_troubleshooting_and_repair (http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=x68000:soft_power_switch_troubleshooting_and_repair)
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
I don't think there's anything mentioned about no video out... The x68k itself doesn't boot. How do i test those power signals? Multimeter?
Hi Famiac,
Sorry the long delay, I still need some free times to look into your CYNTHIA problem (next week should be good). As I said, it's a complex part in which I don't get everything. I need to understand some signals first. At least, we now have a good idea where the problem is.
Quote from: famiac on October 23, 2014, 06:24:57 AM
It is fully recapped, however when i power the system on, i can no longer turn it off with the soft power switch, the floppy drives accept disks and eject them on demand but do not read them, afaik there is no video out, and when i try to turn off the console with the power switch on the front, only the green led turns off/on depending on the power switch position, the fan keeps spinning.
However, I might help you on with this one without involving testing anything on my side. At least, 3 of my X68000 failed with this exact same situation (all were recovered). These symptoms implied a general core part failure on early boot where the processor stop for some reasons, generally because of a device that does not answer correctly during its initialization.
Also, I found some months ago that ACE models suffers from a bad design in the interrupts processing part, which suddenly put the whole machine in such state. So, which models is this board ?
First, make sure there is no broken pcb traces on I/O board. Battery leaks often corrode and brake traces, turning the x68k into this state.
If all are ok, you'll have next to analyze the processor status ;
in power-on condition.
Here is the CPU pinouts :
HD68000
+------\/------+
D4 |1 . 64| D5
D3 |2 63| D6
D2 |3 62| D7
D1 |4 61| D8
D0 |5 60| D9
/AS |6 59| D10
/UDS |7 58| D11
/LDS |8 57| D12
R//W |9 56| D13
/DTACK |10 55| D14
/BG |11 54| D15
/BGACK |12 53| GND
/BR |13 52| A23
VCC |14 51| A22
CLK |15 50| A21
GND |16 49| VCC
/HALT |17 48| A20
/RST |18 47| A19
/VMA |19 46| A18
E |20 45| A17
/VPA |21 44| A16
/BERR |22 43| A15
/IPL2 |23 42| A14
/IPL1 |24 41| A13
/IPL0 |25 40| A12
FC2 |26 39| A11
FC1 |27 38| A10
FC0 |28 37| A9
A1 |29 36| A8
A2 |30 35| A7
A3 |31 34| A6
A4 |32 33| A5
+--------------+
With a voltmeter, put the black lead on any metal ground part. And with the red one, give me voltage measurement of the following pins :
General : * CLK (pin 15)
* /RST (pin 18)
Processor condition : * /BERR (pin 22)
* /HALT (pin 17)
Bus arbitration : * /BR (pin 13)
* /BGACK (pin 12)
* /BG (pin 11)
Interrupt processing : * /VPA (pin 21)
* /IPL2 (pin 23)
* /IPL1 (pin 24)
* /IPL0 (pin 25)
The next step depends of the result.
The PCB is an Expert model. My other X68000 boots with the IO board so i assume if i use the same one there are no IO board problems right? The daughterboard is fully recapped and should be working.
Wow i feel awful right now. I reassembled it with the other motherboard, (i put a gold pin socket on top in the cpu socket to fit xellent30s) and it booted and played graphics properly!
Looks like the socket was bad. But guess what? I removed the cputo fit in xellent30s but forgot to unplug x68000!!! Now i think i ruined my xellent30s and my pc because it won't boot :( it stays stuck at the red light no matter what i do
Edit: it boots with cpu now, but not with xellent30s. The socket is very finicky. attempting to boot with xellent30s unit gives me the original problem (no video/soft power)
Hi Famiac !
Check if there is a fuse close to the xellent30s socket.
Keep the scene alive !
Eidis
Thanks for the tip eidis. I have exams now so i won't be able to check until the weekend.
Ok there seems to be a problem with the xellent30s. Eidis, i can't find the fuse you're talking about.
It's the problem where the led goes green but the x68k doesn't boot or turn off
Edit: some more lovely news: one of the pins on the pin header broke, and i can't find a replacement part.
I don't have the time or knowledge to repair this xellent30s unit, could i send it to someone for repair? I'm about to break down after so much time and money spent
Thats a real bummer :(. Can you take a picture of the damage?
Just one pin on the pin header broke, and the rest of the damage is either non-existant or invisible
EDIT: i found a replacement header. Can i sent it along with the xellent30s to someone for repair?
Here are some voltages for you lydux
Tested voltages :
Xellent connect to cpu Socket
* CLK (pin 15) 1.625v
* /RST (pin 18) 4.85v
Processor condition :
* /BERR (pin 22) 4.85v
* /HALT (pin 17) 100mv
Bus arbitration :
* /BR (pin 13) 4.85
* /BGACK (pin 12) 4.85
* /BG (pin 11) 4.2v
Interrupt processing :
* /VPA (pin 21) 4.85v
* /IPL2 (pin 23) 4.85v
* /IPL1 (pin 24) 4.85v
* /IPL0 (pin 25)4.85v
Socketed hd68hc on xellent30s
General :
* CLK (pin 15) 1.7v
* /RST (pin 18) 4.85v
Processor condition :
* /BERR (pin 22) 4.85v
* /HALT (pin 17) 78.8mv
Bus arbitration :
* /BR (pin 13) 4.85v
* /BGACK (pin 12) 4.23v
* /BG (pin 11) 4.85
Interrupt processing :
* /VPA (pin 21) 4.85v
* /IPL2 (pin 23) 4.85v
* /IPL1 (pin 24) 4.85v
* /IPL0 (pin 25) 4.85v