X68000 'Takeru' Versions

[Broken]

Hi just thought I'd see what everyone thought about these;

A mate of mine is also into X68000 and so we swap games now and then. Only thing is is that we live a distance apart so stuff has to be mailed sometimes so an element of risk. Anyway he's been going on about these X68000 'Takeru' game versions that apparently came from vending machines in Japan. I thought this was some of his bull as he has bulled me up once or twice - more out of humour I guess than being a compulsive liar! Still can be a pain. Anyway I did some searching but didn't find much which leads me to suspect that he maybe spinning me one or two. Anyone know if these things and the story exist or has no one heard of them as I haven't. Any info would be cool even if it's just confirmation of my mate telling porkies.  

[Lawrence]

I've seen them in action, back in 1995.  Many games were released as budget titles through the Takeru network after they were no longer available 'for real'.  Some games, like the X6800 port of the PC98 game Star Trader, were ONLY available via Takeru.

Basically you'd go to the machine, navigate the menus, and select a game.  Afterwards (and this is where my memory gets fuzzy, sorry) you're prompted to insert disks and it writes 'em while you wait.  ...Or it spat them out for you without you needing to insert them.  I'm not sure, I thought the Japanese guy I was with bought them before operating the machine...

[Broken]

I can't believe it my mate wasn't lying this time..! Are they rare and hard to get hold of? It's just that I'd never even heard of them. I guess you'd get little artwork with them.

[Lawrence]

Takeru versions didn't even have printed stickers on the disks.  If you wanted labels, you wrote 'em on yourself!  (Most of the time, sometimes they DID have printed labels...)

Takeru disks are simply legitimate copies of games.  They're no more rare or valuable - except for those few that were ONLY takeru - than copies from a friend.

[genocho]

Here is a probe of takeru disks:

http://page7.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/g67890046



And this probes that copies of 3,5 disks for x68000 compact´s can be done, the question is, wich machine is used ?

A x68000 with both 5 1/4 and 3,5 drives (with this config I think is possible, is a "private copy"), a 3mode compatible pc ?

That´s the quesion !

If anyone buy this item, and owns a x68000 compact, can expereriment to make copies of that disks for solve the "mistery" of make 3,5 bootable disks in compact machines.

Regards.

[Magic Knight]

If anyone buy this item, and owns a x68000 compact, can expereriment to make copies of that disks for solve the "mistery" of make 3,5 bootable disks in compact machines.

What exactly do you mean by "the "mistery" of make 3,5 bootable disks in compact machines. "? I mean, making a bootable 3.5" disk with a compact machine should be the same as with a 5" machine. As long as you can copy from a disk with an operating system on it to another disk there's no problem. The problem therefore is presumably getting a 3.5" disk with an operating system on it in the first place, is that right?

[genocho]

The problem is write xdf backups in a standard pc in 3,5 disks, and then use in the x68000 compact, using xfloppy, omniflop, etc.

Is this possible ? With 5 1/4 disk yes, but 3,5 ?

Regards.

[Lawrence]

That's the key, isn't it?  I'd love to use my Compact to play games on, but is it possible to convert 5.25" disks to 3.5"?  Will they run, do they need to be modified?  Is it enough that they're both 1.2MB media? 

Since the X68000 requires a driver to access the 3.5" drive, I'm guessing they're not directly compatible.

[Magic Knight]

That's the key, isn't it?  I'd love to use my Compact to play games on, but is it possible to convert 5.25" disks to 3.5"?  Will they run, do they need to be modified?  Is it enough that they're both 1.2MB media? 

Since the X68000 requires a driver to access the 3.5" drive, I'm guessing they're not directly compatible.

Well, on my setup I have a hard disk and CD drive, so I can copy games from Windows to my X68000 no problem. BUT, they don't work - they work fine on a Windows emulator, but on the real thing, you get the usual "Insert program disk please" message. So, you can't just copy from 5.25" to 5.25", presumably it's the same for 3.5" disks.

So, I have File Master and Formula 68 for copying disks, and not every copied game works, even with them. I bought them on Yahoo Auctions and they cost 11,500 yen, so they're not cheap. I have managed to copy quite a number of games in all fairness, just not all of them. I then make images on my hard disk and boot from there if I can. I also have backups on an MO drive.

If I were to buy a Compact, I'd get a hard disk, get the machine booting from that (maybe needing the OS on floppy first), then connect an optical drive and boot from my image files for those games I can.

The best overall option, of course, is to get a proper original external 5.25" drive, but as everyone is aware, they cost a fortune.

[Lawrence]

well, I've got a couple of working X68000 units, and pretty much every game worth owning already (bought 300 games from a shop when they closed, for like $2 each, so it's not like I'm rich, just lucky).

My copy of Formula 68 has managed to copy everything I throw at it so far, which is one game: Nectaris.  Rare, and my copy was damaged, so I needed a backup before it died.  Took ages to make it go, but it finally did.  =)

[Magic Knight]

I've never actually got Forumla68 to work myself, I just use File Master, as I have all of the update disks with the parameter files. I only have 140 games myself.

[ニユ－マン]

Well, on my setup I have a hard disk and CD drive, so I can copy games from Windows to my X68000 no problem. BUT, they don't work - they work fine on a Windows emulator, but on the real thing, you get the usual "Insert program disk please" message. So, you can't just copy from 5.25" to 5.25", presumably it's the same for 3.5" disks.

Are all the original games protected? Or just those with the NO-Copy logo?
I have a few originals that are damaged, I was thinking I could restore them by rewriting the images from the emulator sets, but was wondering if those are somewhat incomplete or hacked.
I've never tried to copy an original disc, but I tried a few .xfd images and they always worked on my real machines (5.25 and 3.5").
 

[Magic Knight]

I think most original games came with some kind of protection, maybe using CRC checks. I haven't really gone to the bother of checking which ones work and which don't.

There are some games for which there were a few parameter files created by the File Master team, presumably the big companies made a few protection schemes. Games that I couldn't copy include Final Fight, Street Fighter II, SSFII, Nemesis '90, Detana Twinbee, Overtake, and quite a number of others I can't remember, so that includes quite a few of the most sought-after titles. Some that did work were Strider, Akumajou Dracula, all of the Anthology games (Dig Dug etc.)

I then tried some of the uncopyable games from .XDF files and that was the same deal - they wouldn't boot. I'm guessing that the emulators simply don't have the same level of rigour with regards to the disks' copy protection or maybe they implement a workaround.

I imagine many games will work fine from .XDF files, but quite a number don't, or so I've found. Doujin and Takeru work fine of course.

[genocho]

I've never tried to copy an original disc, but I tried a few .xfd images and they always worked on my real machines (5.25 and 3.5").

How can you do that ? The 3,5 floppys boots  on a compact ? Explain all the process for make the copy in 5 1/4 and 3 1/2.

I really think, to make copies, using xdf 2hd or dim tosec images is possible. Perhaps some are desprotected like pc games or amiga games in his day, but if it runs in emulator  it must run in a real machine.

The deal is to find a pc floppy drive 3mode compatible, configure it soldering or modifing jumpers (must be configured to write 3,5 disks at 360 rpm instead of 300) and activate the 3mode capable in pc bios.

I discover samsung sfd 321 b is a 3mode capable drive, but it must be activated to be a real 3mode. This guy says how is the modification.  Samsung sfd 321 b drives  are common now, and easy to buy on every computer shop or ebay.

Look at this post:

http://majzel.blogspot.com/2009/04/converting-from-8-to-35-inch-floppy.html

With this and using xfloppy, or other utilities in the pc in pure dos, it must be sufficient to make perfect clones of disc images,  because looking at the takeru discs photos, are normal floppy discs, and I don´t think are special drives or special discs.

Some months ago, argentinian guy "el piloto"  discover that amiga floppy drives, are the same as pc ones, only changing 2 wires :

http://www.retrocomputacion.com/cgi-bin/foro/YaBB.pl?num=1169698625

Other examples of using other media in other machines is amstrad cpc 6128  for using 3 1/2 drive instead 3" ones.

Resuming, I think is factible, but I don´t have the compact x68000 to try it, so, anyone of here  that have one, and want to try this method, I think have all the info to try it.

1. Buy and Modify samsung SFD 321B, 3 1/2 DRIVE (I think other models are capable, but...... how ? )
2. Activate 3mode support for this drive in bios (drive a:), if your bios have this option.
3. Use a normal pc with win98 and xfloppy proper installed (see readme of xfloppy) or similar programs (octocom, etc) and write xdf tosec image to a 3 1/2 - 1,2 mb writed at 360 rpm.
4. Try disc  in a x68000 compact and if runs discover the holly grial XD

If this runs, the other deal is to make run externally a 3,5 floppy drive, but this is other history..............

Regards.

[sunn]

It would be really neat to see a proof of concept!

I have the following: Sharp XVI Compact, Asrock motherboard that has the option in BIOS to  5.25" floppies in 1.2 Mb format, WIN ME. I had little success with these.

What I do NOT have is a 3 Mode disk.

I am really hesitant to spend more money on this project, though. I've already had my share of troubles: one broken X68K Expert, 3 failures when trying to buy 2 mb to Ace etc.

But if someone is willing to send me a modified 3M Drive I'm more than willing to try this and other methods in the hope of preserving this great software. And of course I could then return the drive to its owner.

Please keep us informed

[papa_november]

You can buy a 3-mode drive here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/197006-001-Compaq-1-44MB-3-Mode-Diskette-Drive_W0QQitemZ320348337032QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCC_Drives_Storage_Internal?hash=item4a963fb388

Also, the X68000's 3-mode implementation is probably very different from the PC-98's implementation, but the techniques used to write back PC-98 disks could still appply to the X68000.

[kendrick]

As a reminder, URL links to other sites should be accompanied by a few lines of explanation to tell us why the content is relevant to the thread you're posting in. This applies also to links that take us to auction sites, or other pages with a commercial purpose.

[Midori]

That PC-98 link was interesting! Read the thread and reminded myself of that I have a usb floppy drive from HP. Tested it out and it sure can format 1.23 MB floppys :-) It's a OEM Teak FD-05PUB which is the same kind of drive they speak of in that thread.

Darn... Now I want a X68000 compact to test on... Why do they have to be so expensive, will have to find one of these "jobs" people speak of first...