X68000 PRO Error message?

[cdoty]

My X68000 PRO starts up with the following message in the center of the screen:


Any idea what this means?

The drives insert and eject disks fine, and the system powers off when the power button is pressed.

[Lawrence]

Unfortunately I have the identical error on my X68000.  The text says, basically, 'An error has occurred.  Please reset the computer.'

I haven't managed to solve it, tho TBH I only found out it was hooped yesterday.  I opened it up and had a poke around, but the 1st-gen X68 is a mess inside, especially compared to the easy-access PRO, so I didn't get far.  I reseated what chips I could find, and even removed the RAM entirely, but it made no difference.

Was your PRO working before this?  Does it still have the original power supply?
 

[cdoty]

I haven't managed to solve it, tho TBH I only found out it was hooped yesterday.  I opened it up and had a poke around, but the 1st-gen X68 is a mess inside, especially compared to the easy-access PRO, so I didn't get far.  I reseated what chips I could find, and even removed the RAM entirely, but it made no difference.

Was your PRO working before this?  Does it still have the original power supply?

Was your PRO working before this?  Does it still have the original power supply?

Yes, my X68000 was working a month or two ago.

No it has a PC style power supply.

 I wonder if it could be a dead battery. Does the X68000 have SRAM that may've been lost?

[Lawrence]

The X68 does have some NVRAM, but I'm not sure if it's FLASH or battery backed.  Considering the era it could easily be either.  I'll check, that's a good idea.  I wonder how it's reset?  Using SWITCH.X maybe?

[Computolio]

I'm getting the exact same error on mine:

    

    Curiously, I can get disks to boot if I do a cold reset. I can never get the "insert disk" screen though. I wonder what's causing it?

[Computolio]

This page seems to list a virus as one of the possible causes:
http://www.geocities.co.jp/SiliconValley-P.../kosyourei.html

It suggests resetting the NVRAM as a cure, but the automatic translation I'm using makes it unclear as to how that should be done.

[cdoty]

It suggests resetting the NVRAM as a cure, but the automatic translation I'm using makes it unclear as to how that should be done.

The Google translated versions seems to suggest that the boards in the X68000 need to be seperated for a 'half day'.  From what I read, it seems to discharge the SRAM.

I'm not sure if this applies PRO as well as the tower systems? The PRO does have two boards.

I was able to find an article about a virus for the X68000. and a vaccine called doctor. I can't seem to find it, but that may work if you can get the machine to boot.

Mine will boot also. I have the switch statement, but don't know how to clear SRAM with it.

That's very good news at least. I thought I tried booting with a floppy already inserted.

I was afraid I had lost my X68000, but it's only sick!

[Guest]

That's interesting, it looks like it is a rather common virus then. How could you have gotten it? Only running original disks, or do you have shady cracked games where the virus could originate from?

[Computolio]

    Thing is, with mine the error message was the first thing I saw when I first turned on the machine. All that had happened to the X68 before that was that it had spent roughly 3 months in a shipping container. Either the virus is time-delayed, or it's a genuine corruption of the SRAM caused by a dying battery.

    (I think the second scenario is more likely.)

[cdoty]

I think mine probably came from a virus from a copied game. I was trying out some disks created by XFloppy and OmniFlop, in addition to my Frog Feast.

The games I have are write protected, so I wouldn't think there's a virus on those.

[cdoty]

On the Tokugawa forum (http://fullmotionvideo.free.fr/forum/), they suggested SRAM_CLR (http://www.retropc.net/x68000/software/system/sram/sram_clr_r/index.htm).

The SRAM_CLR.R file runs fine under the XM6 emulator. I will give this a try shortly, using XFloppy.

[sunny]

When booting up I get some text with my Pro too. There is also a counter from 9 to 0. Do you get this? I managed to override it with the shift key, though.

I would bet for a battery trouble too.
 

[Akir]

Hey, my minute Japanese is comeing to some use!

Here's how I compute Computolio's error picture. The first three charicters say "eraa" (Error), then "ka" and two kanji (which I can't read), then "shimashita." which means "has been done" The first sentence probibly says "An error has happened."

The second sentence says "risutto shite kudasai." Assuming risutto means "Restart," It says "Please restart." Kudos, Lawrence!

cdoty, I'm also thinking that it's a SRAM problem. If the SRAM_CLR Program doesn't work, then try disconnecting the battery and grounding the pins on the SRAM chip temporarily (it'll drain the chip's memory faster then just leaving it alone).

Does it still boot from floppy? If so, try using one of the system disks and using switch.x and messing around with the parameters.

[cdoty]

cdoty, I'm also thinking that it's a SRAM problem. If the SRAM_CLR Program doesn't work, then try disconnecting the battery and grounding the pins on the SRAM chip temporarily (it'll drain the chip's memory faster then just leaving it alone).

Does it still boot from floppy? If so, try using one of the system disks and using switch.x and messing around with the parameters.

SRAM_CLR didn't fix it.

I used switch to change the boot, tv_ctrl, lcd_mode, sram, etc settings; it still happens.

I do get a message if a nonbootable disk is in the drive when it boots.

[Computolio]

SRAM_CLR didn't fix it.

     ((((((

    I guess the next step is to go and ask on one of the bigger Japanese X68K messageboards. Someone has to know how to make this thing go away.

[Uroko-Sakanabito]

Hi there; have you found a solution for the Problem ?
and furthermore; is there someone WITHOUT the Problem ?

And if i had read this Topic correctly; you still can play Games or ?

thx from germany
   

[Computolio]

What scares me is that there's a few machines that will display the message and yet not boot at all, which makes me curious as to why mine and cdoty's machines still do. One thing I can't check (and am remotely curious about) is if X68s affected by this problem can still boot off of hard drives. Maybe this has something to do with the hard drive controller- does it happen only on SASI-equipped machines or are there SCSI-based machines with the problem as well?

    Also, more poking around with Babelfish reveals that when the battery actually dies, it causes a completely different set of problems, such as the machine forgetting how much RAM it has installed and so forth.

[cdoty]

And if i had read this Topic correctly; you still can play Games or ?
 

Games still work on my machine. The only thing I cannot do is boot a game after the machine has started.

[Akir]

I know that this is incredibly late and such, but you could try two utilities that I just discovered on the Human68k disk. Slip it into your FDD0 drive and go to the BIN directory. There are two interesting utilities there, RESTORE.X and RECOVER.X. I'm not entirely sure of what RESTORE does, but RECOVER looks like an error checker. Try to use RECOVER on the files you use on startup.

Human68k, SX-Windows, and most other Sharp/Hudon system tools have been released under public domain as of 2000. You can get a copy of Human68k here: http://retropc.net/x68000/software/sharp/human302/
(同意する is accept)
I can't remember if the X68k has some kind of special floppy drive, though, so I'm sure that getting it on it's 5-1/4" would be quite difficult....

If it fails to work, you can always simply 'FORMAT C:" and "COPY *.* C:\" from A's root.

[cdoty]

There are two interesting utilities there, RESTORE.X and RECOVER.X. I'm not entirely sure of what RESTORE does, but RECOVER looks like an error checker. Try to use RECOVER on the files you use on startup.

I can't remember if the X68k has some kind of special floppy drive, though, so I'm sure that getting it on it's 5-1/4" would be quite difficult....
 

I tried Restore and Recover. I think it's probably a dead battery or dying SRAM.

The X68k floppies can be written with a utility called xFloppy. I think this will only run under Windows 95/98. OmniFlop can also handle X68000 disks, and it will run under Windows 2000 (and XP I think).

[Computolio]

    I fixed it!

    SRAM_CLR does not clear all of the SRAM; it leaves the first few hundred bytes alone. This is where system configuration options are stored, and this is the area that actually needs to be reset. This website has a solution- use the debugger.

    Boot the first disk of C Compiler PRO (XC2101I.LZH on this page). After answering "N" to the prompt that pops up it should dump you back in HumanOS. Then type:

Code: [Select]

db
mes e8e00d 31
mes ed0000 00
mes e8e00d 00
q

    This should reset the protected area of the SRAM. Pop the disk out, restart and you should get your normal disk prompt back. Make sure to redo your settings in SWITCH.X, as they'll be reset to their default options after this.

     It turns out that the reason SCSI-based machines don't really suffer from this problem is because they have a later ROM with an SRAM reset function built-in. On those machines all you need to do is hold down CLR while turning on the machine to reset the SRAM.

[cdoty]

Nice job.

[doubleflash]

Hy, i have a error message from a x68000 pro, that i dont understand.

So i did a few things to repair, SRAM Battery is removed, floppys are clean and works fine at my PC, PSU has a fully recap and works fine too.

[lydux]

Well... Next time try to make a better picture please. I got hard time identifying the message.

I guess it's this one : システムを起動できませんでした。リセットしてください
Literrally : "System boot failure, please reset"

It's a generic error message Human68K v3 display when something goes wrong with the initial boot device driver.
There are various reasons for this message to show up, some of them :
- When booting from floppy drive : it does expect at least 2 (working) floppy drives. Only one will not work.
- Unable to probe all LUN on SCSI chain : this could occurs when the SCSI terminator is not present. On twin-tower models, this terminator is the pcb block located on the back of the machine (the one with external SCSI and floppy connector). It does contains pullup resistors network to end the SCSI chain. SCSI and floppy cables MUST be hooked to this block. I don't know on PRO model, but I guess you have something similar.

So, check carefully for your floppy and SCSI cables : continuity test, cleaning, ...
And make sure resistors networks are present on terminal block. (as they can be removed on some models)

Also, I do remember someone here noticed that Human68K v2 will boot correctly even with faulty drives chain... If you can get a Human v2 copy for testing.


And BTW, nice necroposting dude !


Edit :

So i did a few things to repair, SRAM Battery is removed, floppys are clean and works fine at my PC, PSU has a fully recap and works fine too.

Hu... What did you mean by that ? 
Did you manage to plug the drive in your pc ?

[caius]

Hy, i have a error message from a x68000 pro, that i dont understand.

So i did a few things to repair, SRAM Battery is removed, floppys are clean and works fine at my PC, PSU has a fully recap and works fine too.

Hi, listen to Lydux.I had similar issue with my CompactXVI, it was due one of the FDD was faulty (bad capacitors) so check either ribbon cables either FDD pcb.

[doubleflash]

lydux : thank you, i havn't connected both floppys, so this is the first try after recap the PSU & floppys. I just wanted to boot up human68 to set up ram with switchx .
I have seen many floppys from many platforms, so most floppys are the same. They have the shugart bus, it is familiar to PC. So you can connect a x68000 floppy if you patch a floppy cable, the signal Disg Change that is on Shugart on Pin 2, must Connect to Pin 34 and Pin 34 to Pin 2, jumper the Floppy to DS1 and set the PC BIOS to Drive B. After that, you can use a PC to test & adjust x68000 floppys, for MS-DOS it is a little bit easier find software for adjusting track 0 etc.

Thank you, now a x68000 PRO have a new life, and works fine

[lydux]

X680x0 follows the IBM floppy interface standard, which is based on Shugart interface. Only 17 signals over 34 are used.

On normal PC, the others 17 pins are only tied to ground. But on an x68k, we got extra signals here for handling soft ejections, led controls and media status.

Here is x680x0 drives pinouts :

Code: [Select]

2  - /DENSITY_SEL     /OPTION_SELECT0 - 1
4  - key              /OPTION_SELECT1 - 3
6  - /DS3             /OPTION_SELECT2 - 5
8  - /INDEX           /OPTION_SELECT3 - 7
10 - /DS0                      /EJECT - 9
12 - /DS1                 /EJECT_MASK - 11
14 - /DS2                  /LED_BLINK - 13
16 - /MOTOR_ON               /DISK_IN - 15
18 - /DIRECTION             /ERR_DISK - 17
20 - /STEP                   /FDD_INT - 19
22 - /WRITE_DATA                  GND - 21
24 - /WRITE_GATE                  GND - 23
26 - /READ_DATA                   GND - 25
28 - /WRITE_PROTECT               GND - 27
30 - /READ_DATA                   GND - 39
32 - /SIDE_SELECT                 GND - 31
34 - /READY                       GND - 33

So, be carefull if you plug a x68k drive onto your PC, you should prepare correctly your floppy cable by removing all grounded signals to those extra signals, or you might burn the second extra controller inside your floppy drive ! (some of them are outputs)

So you can connect a x68000 floppy if you patch a floppy cable, the signal Disg Change that is on Shugart on Pin 2, must Connect to Pin 34 and Pin 34 to Pin 2

You made a bit of confusion here ! Pin 2 is the same ether on x68k or PC which is the media density selector signal. Pin 34 can have 2 meanings : "Media Ready" or "Disk Change". Originally, this pin was "Media Ready", and is present on all 5.25' floppy drive (even x68k' ones). But an update has come with 3.5' drives, this line is now "Disk Change". We don't have this one.

Fortunatly for you, those are both outputs...

[doubleflash]

Lydux, you are right.

I have cutted some cables with the unused signals from the floppy cable. I know that one of these signals is used by pc floppy controller and is incompatible to shugart bus, because Disc change / Ready is on old floppys on the Pin 2 and not really on Pin 34.
After a change with this signals, every 5 1/4 x68000 floppy works fine in my old 486. 
I have to take a picture, from my cable.

[lydux]

Doubleflash,

You're one incredible genius of the luck !
I'm someone who like to understand obscur things, and I smiled a bit when I've finally got what you've done.
Yes, curiously, inverting pin 2 and 34 will make an x68000 floppy drive to work on regular PC, but not because of the way you understand it.

First, to make some points :
- Shugart is an interface, not a bus.
- Only SA400 series floppy drives from Shugart Associates are 34 pins, which is the drive that serve as base for IBM. But on SA400, there is no Disk Change or Ready or Density select signals at all. (See SA400 datasheet page 12)
- I've never heard about a disk change or ready signal on IBM pin 2 ! If it was the case with your 486, you will not be able to use common drives !
- As I said, the x680x0 floppy drives use READY signal on pin 34, and density select on pin 2. (See CZ-600CE schematics, peripherals page)
- PC use DISKCHANGE on pin 34, and density select on pin 2. (See any floppy drive datasheet, I've used Samsung SFD321B)

Now, here are involved signals descriptions :
- READY : the drive must tie this line to a "low" level to indicate that a media is inserted, and motor up to its maximum speed.
- DISKCHANGE : the drive tie this line to a "low" level to indicate that the media have changed since the last host query. If the media has not changed, it stays to "high" level.
- Density Select : we have different behavior here between the x680x0 and PC :
  * PC (expecting configured as 3mode) : "high" level means a 2.0MB media is inserted. "low" level is for 1.6MB. (As reminder, x68000 floppies are 1.6MB)
  * X680x0 : "high" level when the drive is 5.25'. "low" level for a 8' floppy drive. (never seen a 8' drive for this machine... but well)

That means, assuming a floppy is inserted into an x68000 drive, it will always send "high" on pin 2 (5.25' drive) and "low" on pin 34 (drive ready).
Wired like this on a PC means that the media keeps changing, and btw... is 2.0MB.

But by inverting these two signal, the PC will see that the media is still the same, and is 1.6MB !


So, what you did is totally wrong in theory ! But will make the thing totally work in practice !


A note for users who wish to do this trick : it's safe, but be sure to correctly prepare a ribbon cable by cutting wires 1,3,5,7,9,11,13,15,17 and 19. Then cross wires 2 with 34. Also, it's better to insert a disk before powering your PC !

A picture of your cable could be nice doubleflash.

[BlueBMW]

So with this trick we could theoretically run disk drive head alignment diagnostics made for the DOS platform to realign x680x0 drives?

[doubleflash]

as promised the Picture of the "Genius" luck cable

https://mega.folderflex.com/webshare/MEGA/X68000

BlueBMW : Yes, you can do, this with that cable

[caius]

Thanks for the pic, doublefash.And what kind of utility do you use to align FDD heads?