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Author Topic: Building an upscanner  (Read 2921 times)

ConsoleManiac

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Building an upscanner
« on: December 30, 2003, 10:53:26 pm »
Hi all,

I was wondering if it is (I'm sure it is, and I'm sure someone has done it before) possible to build an upscanner convertor to hook my console systems (every: from NES to GameCube) to a VGA monitor.
If any of you guys has got some schema to build one, plz reply so that I can realize it.

I already have a couple of VGA convertors, but I need another one and I thought it would be funny to build by myself.

Thank you all

ConsoleManiac
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Offline Lawrence

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2003, 11:45:44 pm »
Just buy one.  Making your own is a fool's errand.  
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ConsoleManiac

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2003, 12:23:49 am »
Well, I absolutely don't want to contradict you, but isn't this something like I want to build?

http://xcssa.org/photos/misc-2003-09-15/

I think it can be built, like for *almost* everything in electronics. For example I just built an amplifier for my 2,4GHz WiFi Lan instead of buying an expensive one...

Anyway thanx for your reply, as always ^__^

ConsoleManiac
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Offline Lawrence

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2003, 01:41:37 am »
Nope, that's nothing like what you want to build.  We've gone over this many times, and the bottom line is: $200 gets you a kick-ass top of the line upscan convertor that will be LEAGUES ahead of what you'll get when you make your own.

Maybe this image will scare you.  It scared me.

http://elm-chan.org/works/scanconv/scanconv_sch.png

And not to promote myself or anything, but I do have an XRGB-1 upscan convertor for $150 in the store at the moment.  Brand new.  =)

http://nfg.2y.net/sales/

Lawrence.
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Offline Scared0o0Rabbit

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2003, 07:22:01 am »
hey lawrence, I'm gonna be looking at getting an upscan converter soon (doing a DIY projector that will have vga input), and I'm kinda wondering, is the the xrgb2+ the best choice?  or would an xrgb 1 be good enough for my purposes?  My max res on this thing is like 640x480 lol.  I've gotten to like having component in on my current tv, but I haven't bought component cables for all my systems yet, thinking of getting rgb cables instead for use with this projector.
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Feeling Scared? ^_~

Offline Lawrence

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2003, 01:14:56 pm »
There's very little noticable difference between RGB and component, but there's a big difference between progressive and upscanned video of any kind.  If you can get native hi-res component (from an xbox for example) it will look a lot better than the upscanned RGB.

That said if you don't need the on-screen menus the XRGB-1 is a very capable animal, I've never had trouble with it, though I prefer the 2 (not the 2+).
 
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Offline Vertigo

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2003, 07:52:01 pm »
Quote
Maybe this image will scare you.  It scared me.

http://elm-chan.org/works/scanconv/scanconv_sch.png

 Jeepers.
I wouldn't even consider trying to have a go on that.
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Guest_ConsoleManiac

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2003, 08:52:10 pm »
Well surely it looks hard to build, but looking at the pictures fo the finished thing, it doesn't look that difficult (words from an electronics newbie, though... ^__^).

I will try to send an email to that guy to see if he has a pictures of a PCB I can build (I'm not that good to design the PCB starting from the circuit diagram).

Anyway thanx a lot for your replies guys, and of course, should you have others schematics... well let me know  B)

Oh, just FYI, I found something else on the Net, and if you want I can post the links.

Byez

ConsoleManiac
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Guest_ConsoleManiac

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2003, 08:55:05 pm »
Oh, just one more thing...
Lawrence, since you said the thing I posted the link to (the one called PSX to VGA adaptor but with N64 hooked toit ^___^) is not what I mean to build... can you explain to a semi-newbie what it is intended to do?
I see it is a console attached to a monitor so...

Thanx a lot

ConsoleManiac
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Offline Lawrence

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2003, 10:50:17 pm »
It's not an upscan convertor, the person who wrote the article was confused.  The gentleman who created the PCB in question does frequent these forums, tho I confess I couldn't find the discussion we had on this last time.

As for building the upscan, think of the time you'll invest and the tolerance for failure - you're talking about some seriously sensitive parts and unless you're GOOD at this you'll probably be dissatisfied with the results.
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matt

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2004, 01:18:55 pm »
Quote
Well surely it looks hard to build, but looking at the pictures fo the finished thing, it doesn't look that difficult (words from an electronics newbie, though... ^__^).
Whether or not you are an electronics newbie, you *will* make mistakes.  And, since you are a newbie, you will not know what the problems are or how to fix them.  Hence, you will end up with an expensive and time-consuming piece of junk that doesn't do anything.
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Vidgamer

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2004, 12:26:24 pm »
Assuming you have a computer :lol: , and wanted to play your consoles on your computer monitor, just plug in a TV Tuner card, and run DScaler.  Poof!  You don't even need a switchbox!  ;-)  You might need a pretty fast PC, though, and the cheap card I got only does S-video (or composite).

I've tried this with the PS2, and it does work nicely to remove interlace flicker, but it did seem to lose a bit of vertical resolution. (It's not ideal, using s-video -- I'm sure it'd be better if I could go from component to VGA, but it's still pretty good.) I'd like to try it with the Saturn one day, which had a lot of high-res games (and no anti-flicker AA! haha).
 
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Offline Lawrence

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2004, 01:23:03 pm »
It's worth pointing out that most affordable capture cards have VERY poor colour resolution and don't do 60fps, so you end up with a blurry slow image that's usually no better than one of those crappy $40 upscan units that only does composite/S-video.

 
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Vidgamer

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2004, 06:34:24 am »
You might be right about the color resolution, but I had to fiddle with the settings quite a bit (turning down both brightness and contrast!).  Left at the defaults, it would definately lose info., and I shudder to think of how many people are getting sub-standard results.

It appears to be fast enough, but I need to run some more tests before drawing any final conclusions, though.  It uses a lot of CPU time, so it might be that it wouldn't be fast enough on a slower machine!

I also like watching TV while doing on things on the computer, so that's a nice side-benefit.  If you only wanted to play games on the monitor, you're probably right, you'd be better off getting a cheap VGA box, but I have read so many complaints about those when I searched the 'net for info.  I think I paid $43 for this card.  :-)

Gary
 
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Offline Endymion

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2004, 05:26:43 pm »
Quote
It's worth pointing out that most affordable capture cards have VERY poor colour resolution and don't do 60fps, so you end up with a blurry slow image that's usually no better than one of those crappy $40 upscan units that only does composite/S-video.
I wish you would explain that to some of the jerk-offs over at arstechnica's boards. They speak of capture cards and Dscaler as if it's god in the form of console video or something. I can STILL see the fucking jaggies on a deinterlaced broadcast with Dscaler and without RGB input you're suffering colour fuckage beyond belief.
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Talasonic

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2004, 03:51:06 am »
There are cheap, good capture cards available though.  My BTTV chip card (Pinnacle PCTV) cost $30 shipped, and captures DVD quality, once you adjust it right.  720x480 resolution, 30fps.  TV only is 30fps, although it is interlaced so it has 60 fields per second.  (Of course it's 25 and 50 respectively, in other countries.)  Anyway, you can get perfect results with a cheap capture card, if you get the right one, and good drivers.  
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Offline Lawrence

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2004, 01:10:17 pm »
30fps does not allow perfect capture, since most consoles before the Dreamcast operate in low-res 60-fps mode.  This means that even on a lowly Genesis or NES you're mixing two different frames into one every time, and this does not result in an acceptable picture or fluidity of motion so much as annoying blur.  Try and capture video with the card and do some freeze-frame analysis - you'll see that each image has another blurred together with it.

Basically the people who are satisfied with capture cards either don't know what they're missing or don't care that their solution is resulting in inferior video quality.

If your standards are low, that's just fine.  If you don't want to know how good it gets, that's also fine.  But it's flat out ignorance or lies to suggest that it's as good, or even acceptable to people on a board like this who're devoted to RGB goodness because it kicks that extra bit of ass.

Kind of like telling people on an audiophile forum that your $20 walmart speakers are just fine kthx.  =)
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Vidgamer

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2004, 05:26:45 am »
DScaler has a special mode to handle old videogames that properly handles the 60fps mode.  (Otherwise, you're right, it'll try to "blend" the frames improperly.)

I downloaded FRAPS, and it reports 60 fps with Dscaler (while watching cable TV), occasionally dropping to 59.  I can turn on more filtering and get it to drop to 58 and 57.

This is with a Winfast 2000XP Deluxe card.  I don't think it's the "perfect" solution, though!

Obviously, some setups are better than others, but I would only recommend this route if you also wanted the TV card features.

Gary
 
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Vidgamer

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Building an upscanner
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2004, 07:27:04 am »
Ok, I searched for VGA adaptors for the PS2, but most of them seem to just be up-converting the S-video.  There's one $22 unit by Blaze which claims to run some software at true 480p.  Is that worth it?  Does it work with newer games, as their website (I think it was "xploder.net") doesn't seem to mention any codes for newer games?

Gary
 
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